Joe Walsh was the first guy busted for pot in Green Bay.
@H5 posted:What year was that?
Not sure. The bust was in a motel near the BC arena after a gig by The James Gang. Probably '67...
I attended a triple bill back in Madison, early seventies…..5 Man Electrical Band, Butterfield Blues Band followed by the James Gang.
Joe was Joe even back then but the BBB was the real deal….Bloomfield, Bishop and Butter were real pros
Personnel matters and not a promising debut for Joe Barry and his "energy".
question is - where the f do they go from here, they looked so lost out there...is it personnel, calls, |? that's the bigger issue in my mind, where does this go? more vanilla bc his scheme is jacked up? that's shitty, keep going with the same...we saw how that looked...it is really the biggest question for this team...when you lose, that's one thing, they got the absolute brakes beat off them.
I'm not putting it 100% at Barry's feet...the players bear a big chunk of responsibility for this disaster. They are pros...been playing football since they were kids...you KNOW when something ain't right...something THIS bad is never a surprise to anyone. It's poor scheme, poor preparation, poor effort, poor execution.
This isn't something you see from a team that was in the NFCCG 9 months before and get everyone back. This is a generational Lions, Browns, Jets level performance.
Lots of season left, but there is a steep hill to climb.
Thought he was a bad choice when they hired him and still feel the same now
Barry has been a complete failure in his other stints as a DC. It was a bizarre choice.
Hire really made a lot of sense if familiarity and comfortability are the most important criteria and somewhat reminiscent of the previous coach.
The ORGANIZATION has been failing on the defensive side of the ball for over a decade now.
If Barry makes Pettine and Dam look good by comparison, and Rodgers is no longer the Rodgers of old to (along with the OL) disguise the forever stench on that side of the ball, that would indeed be a new low.
And MURPH & GUTE have been there in the FRONT OFFICE ... every ... step ... of the way.
When is the trade deadline?
I wonder what this clown show FO can build even when their HOF QB retires (or wants to leave)?
The issue is twofold - one being the Barry hire was strange/odd given his history and two there are still plenty of talent gaps on the defensive side of the ball.
The DE and ILB positions are a mess and our corner situation isn’t much better. Stokes may help, but Sullivan and King are still terrible and in nickel or dime coverage it’s easy to go right after them.
I'm pretty sure why the defense fucking sucks has been litigated for a decade.
I also think Pettine got a bad rap. His frustrating passivity is becoming more understandable by the day. He was basically running a 3-2-6 scheme.
But 10 million dollars wouldn't fix that? Christ. At least fucking try to fix it.
"We really wanted to fix the defense but it just didn't happen".
I've been beating this drum for a while but I'm going to do it one more time.
It makes zero sense to play a bend but don't break style of defense when you have a good offense. What your goal should be is to increase the amount of possessions that #12 gets in a game. (Forget yesterday, that's an anomaly, for sake of argument just agree for now). You attempt to accomplish this goal by forcing the action on defense. You go ultra aggressive and either force a turnover, get a quick punt, or give up the quick score. All 3 of these situations put the ball back into the hands of last years #1 ranked offense.
That absolute worst case scenario is 15 play drives, which we say 2 of yesterday. I'll take a 2 play 80 yard drive for a TD vs a 15 play TD drive every single fucking time. There is a couple reasons. One, defensive stamina. It impacts there defense as they need to get back on the field against us and it impacts ours as they get off the field. Two, the more our offense has the ball the more likely the cream is to rise to the top. I don't know what the number is, but say we score TD's on 50% of our drives and since we have the #1 offense, it's probably tops in the league. The more possessions you get, the more likely you are to be at or closer to that average. When you limit the possessions, one outlier can heavily skew the game.
In short, get the defense off the fucking off the field. Blitz the hell out of the opponent with single safety 90% of the time. Come from every angle and force a quick possession one way or the other. If we were a talented D with an average O, it wouldn't be your best strategy. But that is clearly not who we are.
I don't disagree at all at this point. Only problem is you have to have a legit front 7 to make it feasible otherwise you're just giving up a lot of points. Might as well save your money and just put a collection of UDFA stiffs out there.
Right now the entire defense looks like Oren Burks.
@Tschmack posted:The issue is twofold - one being the Barry hire was strange/odd given his history and two there are still plenty of talent gaps on the defensive side of the ball.
The DE and ILB positions are a mess and our corner situation isn’t much better. Stokes may help, but Sullivan and King are still terrible and in nickel or dime coverage it’s easy to go right after them.
Barry has been a DC four prior seasons. His team's ranked 28, 28, 32, and 32 in terms of yards allowed.
As Maya Angelou was quoted as saying, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them..."
Should have traded Rodgers and built a badass defense with the cash and picks. I'd rather watch a 9-8 team that's sacking the QB and forcing turnovers than a 9-8 team being run over like a blocking dummy.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:Barry has been a DC four prior seasons. His team's ranked 28, 28, 32, and 32 in terms of yards allowed.
As Maya Angelou was quoted as saying, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them..."
Exactly. The hire made zero sense.
@BrainDed posted:I've been beating this drum for a while but I'm going to do it one more time.
What your goal should be is to increase the amount of possessions that #12 gets in a game. You go ultra aggressive and either force a turnover, get a quick punt, or give up the quick score. All 3 of these situations put the ball back into the hands of last years #1 ranked offense.
That's exactly what happened in 2010, yes? Of course they had Woodson, Nick Collins and DESMOND FUCKING BISHOP at LB'er.
@Henry posted:I don't disagree at all at this point. Only problem is you have to have a legit front 7 to make it feasible otherwise you're just giving up a lot of points. Might as well save your money and just put a collection of UDFA stiffs out there.
Right now the entire defense looks like Oren Burks.
Fuck, Oren Burks actually made a nice tackle yesterday to my surprise. He hasn't been the shittiest part of this unit.
"This is the year Gutey finally addresses Lowry and/or Lancaster," is just wishful thinking. Those salary thieves are part of his plan. We'd best get used to it.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:Barry has been a DC four prior seasons. His team's ranked 28, 28, 32, and 32 in terms of yards allowed.
As Maya Angelou was quoted as saying, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them..."
This reminds me a bit of getting rid of Ed Donatell for Bob Slowick. Donatell was a decent but not great defensive coordinator who was scapegoated for one very bad play (4th and 26 vs Eagles).
Enter Bob Slowick. He turned a serviceable defense into a disaster and only lasted 1 year.
Let us hope Barry is not Slowick but after game 1 he looks just as poor as Slowick was in 2004.
I think it's pretty much guaranteed Barry is Slowick.
The interior offensive line and the middle of your front 7 on defense are non-glamorous positions, but if you can't at least be competitive there it often doesn't matter how good you are at the other positions.
The Packers may have had the best interior OL in the league last year. Linsley was the best center in the league. Jenkins is a superstar. Patrick was serviceable last year, but he was lining up next to 3 All-Pros at their positions. All you have to be is decent to get by. The Packers let Linsley walk and moved Jenkins to LT to cover for Bakh. They started a rookie at center who may be very good some day, but he was lining up alongside two journeymen types at guard (Patrick is serviceable). Newman is a 4th round pick, so you'd expect better, but he was terrible yesterday.
The Packers are paying Kenny Clark big money but their other DL are Lowry, Lancaster, Keke, and Hefflin. Their ILBs are Barnes, Campbell, Burks, and Summers. I think you could find guys on practice squads around the league right now, give them a couple of weeks of practices with the Packers, and notice no difference (in fact, they'd probably be better).
As I said in the thread yesterday, if Bakh returns and is healthy, most of the OL problems go away. Getting him back makes the OL have two All-Pros on it by allowing Jenkins to go back to guard (he's a good tackle, but a superstar interior lineman). Jenkins replacing Newman would be an enormous improvement.
I don't see much hope for the defense improving in the middle.
@Chongo posted:Fuck, Oren Burks actually made a nice tackle yesterday to my surprise. He hasn't been the shittiest part of this unit.
"This is the year Gutey finally addresses Lowry and/or Lancaster," is just wishful thinking. Those salary thieves are part of his plan. We'd best get used to it.
Gutey addressed Lowry when he gave him an undeserved and not insignificant second contract.
He addressed Lancaster when he re-signed him this offseason.
He addressed King when he re-signed him to a contract that only Kevin's mother agreed with this offseason.
These are Gutey's preferred starters on defense for your Green Bay Packers (alongside a cut twice in 2 seasons Campbell and try hard UDFA Barnes at ILB).
Gutey also re-signed Will Redmond this offseason.
When Rodgers has finally been sufficiently been tarred and feathered, I wonder if proudly staunch defender of all things GB FRONT OFFICE fans will take off the blinders just for a moment and cast a glance at the malpractice that has been committed by the Pack's braintrust on the defensive side of the ball for over a decade now?
Failing up seems to be the new trend in this nation. WMM, Ball and Gunt are the latest installments.
Always got the impression that the change was more about MLF having his own guy than performance (Pettine's defense didn't really perform that poorly).
Bill Huber with a good one this morning: "Barried".
@michiganjoe posted:Always got the impression that the change was more about MLF having his own guy than performance (Pettine's defense didn't really perform that poorly).
This is the rank in yards allowed by Pettine's defenses in Green Bay.
2018 (14), 2019 (16), 2020 (8)
This is the rank in points allowed
2018 (14), 2019 (15), 2020 (1)
In the title game (which is what really got Pettine fired), his defense gave up 351 total yards. That's not great, but it wasn't like they failed. The main failure, obviously, was due to Kevin King. They gave up 4 TDs. One was after the A. Jones fumble and was for 8 yards. One was when Kevin King somehow mistimed his jump on a throw to Evans. A third was the infamous last play of the first half.
If you weren't going to fire Pettine after the Niners title game loss the year before, why would you fire him after the defense played more than well enough to win, especially if you find him anyone to replace Kevin King for the following season.
Basically, the Packers actions this off-season all suggest that the real problem was Pettine and that Barry will fix it. They even doubled down by resigning King for 5 million this year.
@michiganjoe posted:Always got the impression that the change was more about MLF having his own guy than performance (Pettine's defense didn't really perform that poorly).
Mayo, if he made that decision because nobody knows who makes the decisions anymore, might want to be brushing off his resume with that kind of thinking.
Edit: Just thinking about this I really have to wonder again if he brought in Barry simply because it was the best option available to him.
I can't get it out of my head that Ball in regards to Leonhard did the exact same thing that happened with Rizzi.
Complete speculation but what else do you make out of bringing in a stiff like Barry?
Young guys may develop, but veterans of all sports tend to “regress/return to the mean”. Blame LaFleur, etc. fir not having the offense ready, but Barry has his unit in mid-season form already.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:In the title game (which is what really got Pettine fired), his defense gave up 351 total yards.
Very poorly in the first half and very well in the second half. Offense needs to something with turnovers other than not being able to generate even a first down.
@Henry posted:Just thinking about this I really have to wonder again if he brought in Barry simply because it was the best option available to him.
Probably true, but you really shouldn't make a change unless the guy you want (pretty clearly JL in this case) will take the job.
@michiganjoe posted:Very poorly in the first half and very well in the second half. Offense needs to something with turnovers other than not being able to generate even a first down.
Very poorly in the first half was basically Kevin King. If he knocks down the first TD pass on third down (which was a play most NFL-level CBs would make) it forces a FG and saves 4 points. If he even plays deep coverage (which looked like the coverage that was called based on how Alexander played on the other side) and gets beat for a 10 yard out, they give up 3 instead of 7.
If he plays competently at CB on just those two plays, the defense would have given up 13 points in the first half. The other TD was set up on a 52-yard lob 50/50 ball. In every case, it seemed Pettine had players in the right spots, they just didn't make plays.