Josh Sitton Released - signs w/CHI 3yrs

I've been out since my earlier posts, but I have to say that I largely agree with where Chilli, Cave and Henry seem to have gotten themselves on this. titm's point about an extension for 12 also shouldn't be dismissed.

Look, I think the world of Josh and his service to our team. But I wouldn't believe anything he or his agent are saying right now. Josh's body is breaking down, he lost a boatload of weight in the offseason to lessen the stresses. IMO he is first and foremost looking to get paid and to score as much guaranteed money upfront as possible. He's already got his ring. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I wouldn't be surprised if 71 or his agent threatened a holdout at the eve of the season where Sitton's leverage is strongest and other younger players' extensions haven't yet siphoned off the green Josh is looking for. We'll never know because the Sitton camp has nothing to gain by letting that out and they know that Ted's 1265 will NEVER talk about that.

Sitton IMO was wanting more than Ted and Russ Ball and McCarthy are willing to do for a older great player who is on the decline and is one snap away from IR.

Of course Aaron and TJ and Bahk and Tretter and Phat Eddie™ are going to miss Josh. But they're not dumb, Sitton gone makes it more likely THEY get paid. And guess what. They'll be even happier when THEY get paid and some OTHER team sets up Josh Sitton for life. 

This is the business they've chosen.

One last point. I've always thought and have posted here that Don Barclay's best position is guard. I'm not saying he's going to the Pro Bowl but I think he'll surprise a lot of you with how well he does. The one big concern I have is replacing Sitton's "cleaning up the mess" ability referenced above. That is rare and Josh was as good at that as any guard of recent vintage. Also, if former China Doll Tretter or Barclay gets hurt then things could get messy pretty quick.

The only way this makes sense is if he choke slammed #12 or is about to go to prison on a serious felony.

You don't cut a borderline HOF, likely Packer HOF, player from a team that has SuberBowl aspirations because you couldn't agree on a contract extension for the following year.

Im not a TT guy, never have been.  Forrest ****ing Gump.

Outside of Rodgers, he's our next best player.   Our OL struggled last season and we just got significantly worse for no reason any rational person can comprehend.  

TJ Lang ✔ @TJLang70

I'm going to miss my best friend

Great post Chili.

It is what it is when it gets down to it.  12 needs an extension, others need an extension.  It's also a shot across the bow that nobody (except maybe 12) isn't expendable.

Yeah I think we are going to see up to 4 folks either get bumped to PS or FA when TT rakes through the FAs.   We know we need a LS (unless Barclay can do it or something, which would be unprecedented in the NFL).   It can be a matter of timing and what TT sees for cuts and who he wants to get on the roster and get to the PS.

I have no idea what's going on like anyone.  There's a method to this madness.  We will see what happens.   Regardless, the goal every year is to get another Lombardi and trusting in ROTT is not a bad thing.  A backup TE F'd us last time we were closest.  That's not on the management.  This still HAD to get the OK of MM3 and 12.  Had to.

I still remember the agnst when Kampman signed with the Jags.  There was a ton of butthurt raging rampant here.  Turned out he was on his last years.  

There's more going on here than any of us may know.

Trying to be level headed here & follow cuqui.....

The roster for game 1 isn't set yet. It's a living breathing thing. Let's see what happens.

We'll know more by Tuesday.

I'm wondering if there is a bigger health issue with Sitton we are not privy to, other than chronic back or foot issues. 

I'm not sure what the NFL rules are as far as talking about injuries. But what if the Packers medical staff saw something during Sitton's physical that they did not like. Can Sitton tell them not to release that info so he can hook up with another team that is not as cautious as the Packer medical staff?  

BrainDed posted:

The only way this makes sense is if he choke slammed #12 or is about to go to prison on a serious felony.

You don't cut a borderline HOF, likely Packer HOF, player from a team that has SuberBowl aspirations because you couldn't agree on a contract extension for the following year.

Im not a TT guy, never have been.  Forrest ****ing Gump.

Outside of Rodgers, he's our next best player.   Our OL struggled last season and we just got significantly worse for no reason any rational person can comprehend.  

Josh started all 16 games on the OL you argue struggled last year. My comment is pure bull**** and meaningless. So is "Our OL struggled last season and we just got significantly worse for no reason any rational person can comprehend" 

packerboi posted:

Like you, more cocktails. Many many more cocktails.

Mutha-fukk.

 Might I suggest riffing on a Classic Negroni? (Gin, Campari, Sweet Vermouth)

What I've done is swap out the standard London Dry Gin, and replaced it with the amazing Wahaka Jovan Espadin Mezcal.  (Jovan basically means Blanco, or aged less than 2 months)

CAPackFan95 and Mickey loves their Mezcal.

BrainDed posted:

The only way this makes sense is if he choke slammed #12 or is about to go to prison on a serious felony.

You don't cut a borderline HOF, likely Packer HOF, player from a team that has SuberBowl aspirations because you couldn't agree on a contract extension for the following year.

Im not a TT guy, never have been.  Forrest ****ing Gump.

Outside of Rodgers, he's our next best player.   Our OL struggled last season and we just got significantly worse for no reason any rational person can comprehend.  

And Josh was part of that line.  I remember SEVERAL games where even the commentators, after bragging him up, were baffled by the mistakes he was making.    

All-Pro accolades in the NFL tend to lag a year.  Smart teams don't pay for that lag and get rid of players before media hype hits.

Bad back, lose weight, and some other behind the scenes stuff have pushed this issue.  Josh wants and deserves a payday.  It's just not going to be the Pack paying it.

I'll eat the crow if needed.  But I just can't see either G position being the end of hopes for our club.  It's absurd.

Good luck to Josh, I wish him the best.  Let's move on with team 96 and go get that next Lombardi!

packerboi posted:

TJ Lang ✔ @TJLang70

I'm going to miss my best friend

Why do his nipples poke through the shoulder pads?

I think he is more than happy.

Cavetoad posted:

BrainDed posted:

The only way this makes sense is if he choke slammed #12 or is about to go to prison on a serious felony.

You don't cut a borderline HOF, likely Packer HOF, player from a team that has SuberBowl aspirations because you couldn't agree on a contract extension for the following year.

Im not a TT guy, never have been.  Forrest ****ing Gump.

Outside of Rodgers, he's our next best player.   Our OL struggled last season and we just got significantly worse for no reason any rational person can comprehend.  

And Josh was part of that line.  I remember SEVERAL games where even the commentators, after bragging him up, were baffled by the mistakes he was making.    

All-Pro accolades in the NFL tend to lag a year.  Smart teams don't pay for that lag and get rid of players before media hype hits.

Bad back, lose weight, and some other behind the scenes stuff have pushed this issue.  Josh wants and deserves a payday.  It's just not going to be the Pack paying it.

I'll eat the crow if needed.  But I just can't see either G position being the end of hopes for our club.  It's absurd.

Good luck to Josh, I wish him the best.  Let's move on with team 96 and go get that next Lombardi!

 

Oh Bull****.  Not a peep from you about poor play last year.  He had a couple more penalties than usual in pass pro but he mauled in the run game all year long.

This is Chip Kelly level insane.  If this happened in San Fran this year everyone here, including you, would be pointing and laughing.

He has 14 nipples. Al Jazeera had the rong guy. 

BrainDed posted:

The only way this makes sense is if he choke slammed #12 or is about to go to prison on a serious felony.

You don't cut a borderline HOF, likely Packer HOF, player from a team that has SuberBowl aspirations because you couldn't agree on a contract extension for the following year.

Im not a TT guy, never have been.  Forrest ****ing Gump.

Outside of Rodgers, he's our next best player.   Our OL struggled last season and we just got significantly worse for no reason any rational person can comprehend.  

I still love truth in advertising.

Cavetoad posted:

packerboi posted:

TJ Lang ✔ @TJLang70

I'm going to miss my best friend

Why do his nipples poke through the shoulder pads?

I think he is more than happy.

Why are you looking at his nipples?

BrainDed posted:

Cavetoad posted:

BrainDed posted:

The only way this makes sense is if he choke slammed #12 or is about to go to prison on a serious felony.

You don't cut a borderline HOF, likely Packer HOF, player from a team that has SuberBowl aspirations because you couldn't agree on a contract extension for the following year.

Im not a TT guy, never have been.  Forrest ****ing Gump.

Outside of Rodgers, he's our next best player.   Our OL struggled last season and we just got significantly worse for no reason any rational person can comprehend.  

And Josh was part of that line.  I remember SEVERAL games where even the commentators, after bragging him up, were baffled by the mistakes he was making.    

All-Pro accolades in the NFL tend to lag a year.  Smart teams don't pay for that lag and get rid of players before media hype hits.

Bad back, lose weight, and some other behind the scenes stuff have pushed this issue.  Josh wants and deserves a payday.  It's just not going to be the Pack paying it.

I'll eat the crow if needed.  But I just can't see either G position being the end of hopes for our club.  It's absurd.

Good luck to Josh, I wish him the best.  Let's move on with team 96 and go get that next Lombardi!

 

Oh Bull****.  Not a peep from you about poor play last year.  He had a couple more penalties than usual in pass pro but he mauled in the run game all year long.

This is Chip Kelly level insane.  If this happened in San Fran this year everyone here, including you, would be pointing and laughing.

Not a peep?

Maybe not.  But, maybe so.  I am not about to waste 3 hours of my time going back and looking through every one of my posts during the 2015 season.

Have you?

You can call me out, but provide proof BrainDed.  

You on the other hand have a great consistence  of providing chicken little posts and incredulous observations.   I rarely call folks out for commentary, but in this case I feel justified.  

I loved Josh and like others, he was one of my favorites.  But, it's a business and sometimes you have to cut bait for the sake of the boat.  Show me where I was a Sitton cork swallower.  It's going to be easier for me to show where you were a panicking chicken little.  But you go first.  You seem to already have some insight and I am curious.

I do thank you for the entertainment though, good times!  

Nobody is buying your BS.  You weren't concerned about his play last year or during preseason this year.  

Its a rather pathetic take but if it makes you feel special, carry on pretending you see something nobody else saw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bbKf3VSiB0

Look at those runs to the left. That's some pretty good lanes and seals by the left side of the OL. Hard to believe that was just about a month ago.

Reading comprehension is a skill.

It's ok, some day you might have it.

Good luck though!

Two years younger than Sitton. I think there is a lot to the idea that Sitton was looking for more than the Packers were offering. 

Bears Signing G Kyle Long To Four-Year, $40M Extension With $30M Gtd Week https://t.co/qWfq5i4pSm #Bears

— NFLTradeRumors.co (@nfltrade_rumors) September 4, 2016

So true...

We'll never know because the Sitton camp has nothing to gain by letting that out and they know that Ted's 1265 will NEVER talk about that.

That's fine.. But why not have him play out this year?   If the answer is because we couldn't afford to lock up everyone we wanted to in season, then we have to admit that we are sacrificing a lot toward a SB this year to do it.  

NFC is open for the taking.  Rodgers isn't getting any younger and most importantly, you still can sign those guys after the season!

You wait until the end of the season to sign all these guys and you're playing with fire. Lots more room to try and get some done now. 

BTW all those guys are one play away from being out of the league, too. Dangling an bigger extension with more guaranteed money up front for THIS season is a helluva nice insurance policy for guys who have to measure their careers by the number of snaps they're exposed to injury on. 

Ted and Russ realize the smarter players understand this. The way they played Mike Daniels' deal last season is a good example.

Also, unless I'm mistaken only TJ Lang amongst the guys needing to be extended has a ring (unless you put Aaron in that category, too). The other guys don't, and have to know leaving Green Bay for more dough from the stoopid bottom feeders isn't a path to getting one.

"Super Bowl champion" means cash flow and A-list treatment for life, boys and girls.

True.  But as soon as rosters are set, his monies are guaranteed.  We have NO idea if any talks had/were happening and if that camp fully rejected what had been offered.  If that is the case, it gives just under 7 million $ that can be allocated to extensions for multiple current and relevant young players.

Guard just is not a position of dire need. Since the first report was that Josh and his Agent got a call (who also sent out the OMFG MY GUY IS GONNA BE CUT$ give me a few call$$$)  in good faith to let him know, and the agents reaction was to make sure the Packers couldn't trade him, I think that's a decent amount of evidence to the situation.

I would rather see youth kept and grow than keep a vet about to break.

packerboi posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bbKf3VSiB0

Look at those runs to the left. That's some pretty good lanes and seals by the left side of the OL. Hard to believe that was just about a month ago.

Tretter looked good in that series. 

I see a lot of posts proclaiming "we may not have all the information" but chock full of theories justifying the release that would make X-Files writers in the final season embarrassed. With the "maybe Sitton was going to pull a Sterling Sharpe" being the worst wurst. 

The extension theories don't hold water. This was Sittons last contract year. I don't believe for a nanosecond that extending TJ Lang is any priority. Lacey had a shelf life even without being out of shape. Bulaga already got paid more than he'll ever be worth. Tretter? Barclay? There's only Bakhtiari. And it shouldn't take cutting your best OL to keep him when FA doesn't start for 7 months.

I'll go with the injury theory for now if only to retain some sanity. This is the GM who jettisoned Charles Woodson to keep MD Jennings and Jerron McMillian after all. Who let the Packers go into a season with Seneca Wallace.

The OL is proving to be brittle lately. Lindsley hammy, Lang shoulder, Bulaga knee not that long ago, Bahk a knee, Tretter already had ACL surgery, Sitton back, etc. When you look at it, we need to get healthier there. I hate to see Sitton go, but how happy would he have been playing out his contract? TT always extends if a guy is in his future plans and everyone knows it. This is better for Sitton cuz he'll get a better deal now rather than at the end of this year with another year of mileage or even another back issue. 

While it throws a wrench in things now, the move makes sense on a lot of fronts.

Now I hope they bring Geronimo back to the PS...

"You wait until the end of the season to sign all these guys and you're playing with fire. Lots more room to try and get some done now. "

Maybe one guy has to wait because we don't have that 6 million.  Now put that up against how having Sitton improves our chance at a SuperBowl this year.   

We don't even know who they plan on starting at guard, it's not like they have some young stud just waiting his turn to come in and play at his level. 

"This is the GM who jettisoned Charles Woodson to keep MD Jennings and Jerron McMillian after all" 

Possibly the most misguided statement lacking perspective and context in a day filled with them. 

What is your point here? Ted sent Charles away because he liked MD and Jerron more? He felt they were better long term options? 

How exactly did that all work out by the way? 

The answer to Sitton being cut is how good is Taylor.  Taylor seems to be the guy the Packers will use to replace Sitton.  This whole  thing could be  that the Packers think Taylor is either close to or better then Sitton. 

Va. Packer posted:

This is the GM who jettisoned Charles Woodson to keep MD Jennings and Jerron McMillian after all. 

Biggest red herring in your whole "logical" post.  

I think you're forgetting one thing.  The injuries AND the contract are the issue. 

1) TT is going to negotiate extensions with or without Sitton on the team.

2) The likelihood that TT asked Sitton for a pay cut to help with those negotiations due to the health issues and potential exponential downgrade in play.  McGinn has an article up quoting scouts saying just such a thing including Sitton having a bad back for years and see definite slippage last year.  

3) With TT asking Sitton for a paycut he is also asking Sitton to play for the Packers this year.  Likely because he IS a good teammate and teacher.   If they believe the drop off potential could be severe, including injury that would keep him off the field altogether any GM would jettison an older player with a bigger contract.  Remove extensions, behavior, whatever guess/fact/mythology from the discussion.  ANY SMART GM is going to jettison an aging, hurt, expensive player.  Any other discussion seems rather pointless.  The thing we ALL do not know is to what extent Sitton is/isn't healthy.  

4) Sitton doesn't accept the cut because who would?  He's got a solid rep and he and his agent know someone is going to pick him up.  He's going to get paid and quite possibly he knows this is his last contract so cash in.  Who would blame him?  This is truly where the business decision comes on Sitton's part, it isn't all on TT.  Sitton knows TT's formula, everybody does.  

5) So the closest thing to fact we have is the question of Sitton's health.  Both parties are coming to the correct conclusion.  TT is pulling the plug on a potential expensive down spiral and Sitton is banking his solid reputation will get him paid.  They're both right.  

Sitton is important to this oline IF he's playing as he always did.  The question is what Sitton are they getting?  I'm guessing both parties are rolling the dice in favor of their best interests and both have compelling arguments.  

"That's business"

I doubt they believe Lane Taylor will be as good or better than Sitton, but rather the drop-off in talent wasn't enough vs. what could be gained in other areas without Sitton. He or someone else is good enough. They probably felt more comfortable with Bakh in year 4 and Tretter (also in year 4) playing well sandwiching that position also. I'd rather have Sitton, but it's not a dumb or ill advised move as some of the knee jerk reactions seem to think. People calling TT out for making an unexpected move, I doubt he enjoyed this. No one likes getting rid of talent, especially good team players like Sitton, but obviously TT thinks this is better in the long run. Another year too early vs year too late deal.

Taylor certainly did show that in the preseason, but maybe he'll step up when it counts. We'll see.

The reason Sitton hasn't already been signed may be that the rest of the league knows that GB doesn't kick someone to the curb without good reason.  How many cut veterans from GB have gone on to do much afterwards?

turnip blood posted:

The answer to Sitton being cut is how good is Taylor.  Taylor seems to be the guy the Packers will use to replace Sitton.  This whole  thing could be  that the Packers think Taylor is either close to or better then Sitton. 

I highly doubt they believe Taylor is close to or better than Sitton.   They likely think they have enough to patch the deficiency for now considering it's an interior position.  Quite simply I think both sides are making a pros/cons list and taking some risk.  

Quite honestly, the more and more I think about it, TT and extensions shouldn't even be part of the equation.  It's happening.  Everyone knows it's happening.  

It's the roll of the dice for both sides on if Josh can stay effective due to health and neither side can be sure.  I think both sides want to see Sitton on the team this year but both have a compelling argument as to contract demands.  So I highly doubt this was some bolt out of the blue and TT just decided to do away with Sitton.

I'm not subscribing to the notion that they felt the savings outweighed the drop off.   If this was cutting Shields so Rollins or Randall couple start, I'd buy it.  Josh Sitton to Taylor doesn't make sense in a year where you are the SB favorite.

It's a bad move.  

Time will tell if it's a bad move. There's been all sorts of wailing and gnashing of teeth when TT's pulled the plug on players previously but he's generally been right. That said, the lack of an obvious player who can competently fill the void is a legitimate concern but I'm inclined to give TT the benefit of the doubt and take a wait-and-see approach.