JSO: Packers to release Nick Collins.

packerboiI lick rainbows

quote:

McCarthy says Packers will exercise caution on Nick Collins

Posted by Michael David Smith on March 25, 2012, 3:04 PM EDT

Packers safety Nick Collins was stretchered off the field after suffering a neck injury in September, and he still hasn’t been cleared to return to football. Packers coach Mike McCarthy says the coaching staff and medical staff are in agreement that he won’t be cleared until there’s absolutely no doubt that it’s completely safe.

Collins is slated for medical tests this week to determine how far along he is in his recovery, and McCarthy told Jason Wilde of ESPNMilwaukee.com that

“Dr. Pat McKenzie and our medical staff, they’re conservative by nature,” McCarthy said. “We’re not going to put him in harm’s way. If he’s on the field, he’ll be cleared, he’ll be 100 percent, everybody will be comfortable.”

McCarthy’s comments were reminiscent of those Steelers coach Mike Tomlin made in explaining why he wouldn’t let Ryan Clark play in Denver after Clark had experienced health problems associated with Denver’s altitude. Tomlin said he wouldn’t have allowed his own son to play under the same circumstances, and therefore he wouldn’t allow Clark to play either.

“If Nick was my son,” McCarthy told Wilde, “I would not let him play.”

And unless the doctors can convince McCarthy that Collins is sufficiently healed that he could feel comfortable putting his son on the football field after the same injury, Collins will not be cleared to play for the Packers.

More and more I hear GB's stance on him, I'm going to be really surprised if he plays again.

3/25/122:23 PM

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BorisPerson Man Camera Dildo Shop - NFLFU®

It's all on if Nick has healed properly & the doctors clear him. If he's cleared by the doctors & MM still doesn't want him to play, what are they going to do? Trade him???

3/25/122:51 PM

packerboiI lick rainbows

quote:
Originally posted by Boris:
It's all on if Nick has healed properly & the doctors clear him. If he's cleared by the doctors & MM still doesn't want him to play, what are they going to do? Trade him???

Wondered that too. He's 28. From his twitter account, it's clear he's training hard and is planning to be back. According to Collins he's yet to hear a medical report that hasn't been anything but positive.

From the stories surrounding Terrance Murphy (and I realize it's 2 different issues..Murphy had cervical stenosis) he wanted to keep playing and was willing to hold GB harmless should he become spinal cord injured. GB released him and NO other team picked him up. That was apparently in large respect for what other teams have for the Packers and their medical staff. If they weren't willing to clear him, then no one else was going to overide GB and Murphy's career was done.

Now Collins is an All-Pro Pro Bowl S in his prime. Would someone like the Jets say come play for us even though GB won't clear him? Would a team like the Bears gladly bring him on? I doubt GB in good conscience would trade him. If they don't feel he can play, they would release him IMO. Big question is who if any team would pick him up if Collins says he's fine and can play..

3/25/123:15 PM

Boston JimMember

I don't know much about neck injuries, but has any other player ever come back from that sort of injury?

3/25/124:17 PM

packerboiI lick rainbows

Here you go:

Link

quote:

Surgery not a career-ender for NFL players with cervical disk herniation
By Mary Ann Porucznik

Results in higher return-to-play rates, longer careers

Football players are no strangers to injury. But cervical disk injuries are particularly worrisome. The high-velocity collisions sustained by players can lead to cervical disk herniations (CDH), which can, in turn, cause symptoms such as neck pain, radiating pain in the upper extremities, and coordination problems.

Surgery to treat CDH has a high satisfaction rate in the general population, but Wellington K. Hsu, MD, wondered about outcomes among National Football League (NFL) players. Would fusion affect performance-based outcomes by altering the playing strategies of elite athletes who sustained such injuries?

In examining “Outcomes following nonoperative and operative treatment for cervical disk herniations in NFL athletes,” Dr. Hsu found that players who were treated surgically had higher return-to-play rates and longer careers than those who were treated nonsurgically. He presented the results of his retrospective cohort study at the North American Spine Society 2010 annual meeting.

In this study, players diagnosed with a CDH included 12 defensive linemen, 11 offensive linemen, 17 linebackers, 31 defensive backs, 8 running backs, 4 tight ends, 7 wide receivers, 8 quarterbacks, and one kicker.

Identifying the cohort

Dr. Hsu relied on public records—including team medical and injury records, newspaper and press releases, and player profiles—to identify the 99 NFL players in his study. Each treatment plan was confirmed by at least 2 independent sources. Surgical treatment was defined as “a 1-level anterior cervical discectomy and fusion (ACDF), posterior foraminotomy, or indeterminate”; nonsurgical treatments included anything other than surgery (ie, physical therapy, epidural steroid injections, activity modifications).

Nearly one third of the players diagnosed with a CDH between 1979 and 2008 were defensive backs (31). Slightly more than half of the players (53) were treated surgically—32 players were treated with ACDF, 3 with posterior foraminotomy, and 18 with an “indeterminate” procedure (exact procedure could not be identified based on available records). Each player served as his own control in measuring performance outcomes such as yards gained, touchdowns scored, interceptions, games started or played, and seasons played.

Comparing outcomes
Nearly 3 out of 4 (72 percent) of NFL players who were treated surgically for CDH returned to play and continued to play in an average of 29.3 games over a 2.8-year period after surgery. In contrast, less than half (46 percent) of those treated nonsurgically returned to play; those who did played an average of 14.7 games over a 1.5-year period before retiring.

After treatment for CDH, players in general had lower performance scores and started fewer games than they had before their injury. But, noted Dr. Hsu, this difference was not statistically significant.

“What was surprising was that the position you played mattered,” Dr. Hsu said. “Defensive backs seemed to be overrepresented in the population.” Outcomes for the defensive backs were significantly poorer compared to other positions. Among defensive backs who sustained CDH and were treated surgically, just half (6 of 12) returned to play. They participated in 17 games over a 1.85-year period. Of the 19 defensive backs who sustained CDH and were treated nonsurgically, just 7 returned to play, and their careers were limited to just 6 games in less than 1 year.

“The defensive back is a unique position on the field,” explained Dr. Hsu. “They’re tackling players who are 60 pounds to 70 pounds heavier than they are; they may be more sensitive to subtleties in range of motion in the neck than other positions. They’re among the most athletic players on the field and could be more attuned to changes after surgery than other positions.”

3/25/125:01 PM

macdaddyMember

Folks the Packers are trying to soften the blow in advance I believe. I love Nick Collins but I don't think he will play again in green and gold. This will be a HUGE HOLE to fill. I wish Nick the best on the field for the Pack, somewhere else or in whatever his life brings him.

3/25/126:03 PM

GoldieMember

It does not look good for him to return. D*mn. Loved him as a Packers, but would NEVER want him to play if his life was in danger, he's way to young. GO PACKERS GO

3/25/126:13 PM

FountainfoxMember

From what the article said, none of the 90 players followed sustained a spinal injury after resuming play, but it seemed none of them played very much and many had further surgery of the same type.

My guess is Collins will play if cleared -- if it is up to him -- but I don;t look for a long career. If I were him I'd look into coaching.

3/25/127:09 PM

Music CityMember

Something about the #36 and careers ending too soon...

3/25/129:19 PM

MNPackmanMember

Collins to meet with the Packers next week

4/3/123:07 PM

Barking PumpkinMember

It clearly makes perfect sense to keep Nick's playing status private until after the draft. Anyone thinks the Pack should reveal prior? And what would they gain from that?

4/3/127:37 PM

PakrzFREEZE!

Nick Collins is done. GB is ultra-conservative with injuries to begin with. Without having any results from testing, MM has already stated he wouldn't let Collins play if he were his son... Collins' agent basically agreed with MM in a follow up statement.

In short, GB had better find somebody to play that spot in 2012 because it ain't gonna be Collins. Maybe Jennings is ready?

4/3/127:51 PM

Mcpacker64Member

If Collins were my son I'd have a"lot of splain'n to do".

4/3/129:18 PM

boxedupMember

The fact the Collins is going to Green Bay to meet with the team strongly suggests that his sergeon cleared him to play again. If he hadn't, there would be no reason for the Packers' medical staff to do their own examination. I wouldn't be so quick to write Collins off. And given Thompson's draft history, Collins' status doesn't really make the Packers any more or less likely to draft a safety. Even if Collins comes back, last year proved the Packers can still benefit from better depth at the position, and Thompson wouldn't draft for need anyway.

4/3/129:45 PM

BorisPerson Man Camera Dildo Shop - NFLFU®

If Collins is cleared & If the Packers refuse to play him, will they be trading him?

I'd like a first round pick in the top 10 this year

4/3/129:51 PM

chickenboyTic Toc

Where is this Packer protocol that has them immediately refusing to play a guy who has been cleared by his docs and the guy himself wants to play?

If he is not cleared by the Pack's team physicians, then fine. But to say, 'hey, we won't play him but give me a pick and you can' seems to be the same thing.

If he is cleared on three levels (players doc, team doc and player himself), play him.

4/3/1210:02 PM

michiganjoeMember

If the Packers won't clear him he'll just be released. Unfortunate that it had to end this way, but as Nick himself has said he doesn't want to watch his kids from a wheelchair.

4/4/126:40 AM

Satori"...going where the climate suits my clothes"

When is Nick's meeting with MM and TT ?

4/10/128:26 PM

H5Keyboard Warrior, troll hunter

I believe he meets with the team officials Thursday.

4/10/128:34 PM

packerboiI lick rainbows

Before April 16th. And the timing is interesting because Woodson is due a 4 mil dollar bonus next week.

GB is about 3.5 mil under the cap. If Collins can't return, IIRC it free's up about 4.2 mil.

Before GB pays that bonus, I wonder if they want to know whether that $$ from Collins is cleared from the books or not.

4/10/128:35 PM

H5Keyboard Warrior, troll hunter

@BobMcGinn
#Packers sitting $3.35M under cap pending decision on N. Collins. If he retires, GB picks up at least $3.8 on cap. Avg. NFL team $8.1 under.

4/10/128:42 PM

Mcpacker64Member

Mr. Collins(regretfully) is done. imo.

4/10/1210:06 PM

turnip bloodMember

http://www.jsonline.com/sports...4u26m-146925665.html

New JSO story: long on medical facts.
In short modern medicine may allow Collins to play again.

4/10/1210:08 PM

YATittleMember

Thanks for posting that. A good read. I think Nick can play a few more seasons.

4/11/127:49 AM

Grave DiggerMember

If all of the specialists clear him, the team doctors clear him, and Collins is on board, there's no way they would refuse to play him. He might start the season on the PUP list, or they might work him back in slowly, but if everything is a go then he will be back in.

Still doesn't change the fact that we need to find a replacement. Like the article said, he could play 7 years like Dalman did or not even 1 more season like Samari Rolle. That great unknown will force Thompson to begin looking for his replacement immediately.

4/11/128:14 AM

H5Keyboard Warrior, troll hunter

I don't envy McCarthy and Thompson in this situation because I believe all the medical staff will clear Collins. Even in today's (softer) NFL it is a violent game and a career ending injury can happen on any play. Collins could go down with another neck/spinal injury and it could have nothing to do with the C3/C4 fusion. That knowledge/possibility would weigh heavily on McCarthy and Thompson I'm sure.

4/11/129:20 AM

Ryan GrantMember

Wouldn't surprise me if he plays. When I had my neck fusion, my doc said people participate in full contact sports all the time following the surgery WHEN it heals correctly, which obviously is the key.

4/11/129:21 AM

Orlando WolfMember

Wish he could play for GB but having visions of Collins being a Jacksonville Jaguar next season.

4/11/129:57 AM

bubbleboy789Member

I've heard that as well. The Packers don't seem very interested in playing him even if he is cleared, and he obviously still wants to play. But he's also a very humble guy, and he's done a good job taking care of his money, so I wouldn't be surprised if he just calls it quits. He's a smart guy and he has a lot going on for him outside of football.

4/11/1210:19 AM

H5Keyboard Warrior, troll hunter

If his and the Packers doc's clear him, and he and his wife decide he should play given the risks, why would the Packers not let him play for them? I know it would be an emotional decision, but given the facts you need to take emotion out of business decisions, as hard as that may be to do.

4/11/1210:37 AM

Rusty42 inch pythons brother!

My hope is that if he gets cleared, MM, TT, and his coaches sit down with him and his family and go over in detail the risks of him coming back, including every worst-case scenario. Not to scare him away, but to make sure that he knows what he is getting himself into if he comes back. Based on the way the administration of this team has spoken of Nick, I can't see them casting him away to another team like some broken old toy. They'll take care of him if he chooses to come back. But I don't think this is a decision he should rush himself into.

4/11/1210:43 AM

RoyalWulffMember

Even if he and his wife decide they want him to return, what about McCarthy's feelings? If he were to accept him back, and the guy ends up getting a catastrophic neck injury, he would forever regret the decision. For that reason, he may decide that he won't allow Nick to play. Couldn't he do that? Even if the guy has a contract, Mike could bench him out of concern for his health.

4/11/1210:59 AM

Grave DiggerMember

They could do that, but why would they keep him on with his salary and just sit him? That's not fair to the Packers or to Collins. They wouldn't treat him like that.

It will probably come down to McCarthy, Thompson, Capers, and the doctors all agreeing that Nick is good to go. If one of them has reservations then Nick won't pass his team physical and most likely he will be released. If he passes his physical that means that everyone is in agreement that he's good to go.

If Nick and all of his doctors are saying he's good and the risk is negligible, then I have no reason to think otherwise.

4/11/1211:16 AM

Satori"...going where the climate suits my clothes"

I think some fans are putting WAY too much credence into the public comments from MM and TT

They cannot say anything except that if it were their choice, they would opt out. And that's exactly what they've said all along.

Could they come out publicly in favor of Nick playing ? Of course not

IF something does happen, they can feel good both ethically and legally by continuing to take a conservative approach in their public comments. Nobody in GB is pushing Nick into playing, just as it should be.

But don't confuse those carefully crafted public statements with the idea that MM "won't let him play" regardless of what the doctors say.

4/11/1211:17 AM

packerboiI lick rainbows

quote:
Even if the guy has a contract, Mike could bench him out of concern for his health.

Sorry. That would be just silly and MM won't do that.

If Collins is allowed to play and takes a roster spot, he will be expected to do everything he did before the injury. MM will not coddle him nor will he take a roster spot out of sympathy.

MM has said if everyone is in agreement and he returns, then it's full-go and there is no looking back.

4/11/1211:55 AM

DurangoDougMember

The long term thing that bothers me from reading the article, as well as hearing it from some one who had the same procedure done, is not the fused vertebre, but the vertebre's above and below.

IIRC the fused vertebre should be fine to play if healed correctly. But the discs above and below take more punishment to compensate for the removed disc from the fusion surgery.

Like the example given of Samari Rolle, the chances of injuring the other areas of his neck are IMHO too great for TT & MM to clear him to play. I sincerely hope Nick realizes this and retires gracefully, instead of getting cut and signed by another team only to injure other neck vertebre with life altering consequences.

TT & MM do not want futher injury to Nick's neck and the potentially severe negative outcome on their consciense. Thus, IMHO they will try to convince him to retire, and cut him if he refuses to.

4/11/1212:21 PM

HauserMember

I think if he is cleared by the doctors, TT & MM let him play. If he wants to play and they end up letting him go, that's still not protectinghim. You know someone would pick him up. One way or the other, they'll feel bad if he got hurt again. If it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen

4/11/122:08 PM