Lance Armstrong

Tavis SmileyMember

I know it shouldn't appear in this Forum, and RIP Neil, but I am really curious as to what others feel about the recent developments with Lance Armstrong.........I respect everything about the guy when it it comes to what he has overcome with his own cancer struggle and career, but have have always looked at him as a self serving............I need to stop.

I just don't like the guy, and always thought he was guilty of doping. I know proceeds of sales of bracelets go to his Foundation which is outstanding, but if he's dirty doesn't that cancel a lot shiit out?

I needed to vent.

8/25/129:26 PM

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

"We"-Ka-BongYou ungrateful biscuit eating son of a bitch

what did he test positive for again?

8/25/129:28 PM

TimthePackerFanMember

He's never tested positive.

quote:
Armstrong never failed a drug test. He was tested in competition, out of competition. He was tested at the Olympics, at the Tour de France, at dozens if not hundreds of other events. And he never failed a test. We know this because if he had, Travis T. Tygart, the head of USADA, would have personally delivered the results to every home in America, like a grim little Santa Claus.

Instead, Tygart gathered a group of people who swear they saw Armstrong doping. There has been no trial, no due process, but in the minds of many, that testimony outweighs the results of hundreds of drug tests.

Considering the USADA is ignoring it's own rules to try and pull this off I think I'd stop wasting the money to defend such stupidity and let it end as well.

8/25/129:33 PM

Tavis SmileyMember

Again, I am not stating fact, but rather opinion and posting this based on latest developments. I am more curious to find out from people on x4 whether Armstrong is guilty or innocent based on their opinion. I know mine isn't popular, and I don't care. Looking back on all the past legal proceedings could drive a person mad.

8/25/129:42 PM

PackLandVAMember

He will not make the final 53......and it has nothing to do with these allegations.

8/25/129:43 PM

TimthePackerFanMember

8/25/129:52 PM

GBP1Member

Lance is "yesterday" to me anymore. He's done. If he is truly guilty, then all his promoters and contractors should sue him for mis-representations.

But I could care less about him. However, it does send a very wrong message to the millions of kids and youth that cheating works even though you get caught.

8/25/1210:02 PM

Blair KielGOOD OL' FAKE BLAIR KIEL - My Hood? nice Henry. Fuck You!

How much less could you care?

8/25/1210:15 PM

GoallineLarge Antenna

Lance was definitely doping, but so is everyone on the Tour. BFD. From what I hear, Lance is actually a pretty unpleasant guy, but he did beat that cancer thing...

8/25/1210:19 PM

HenryYou rang?

Legitimate doping.

8/25/1210:20 PM

FandameMember

I don't know if he cheated or not. But, I do find it "interesting" that there are those who feel they must pursue him this far to prove their allegations. So, does that make him innocent and those officials just out for their own fame? Or does it make him guilty because some believe it necessary to continue the persecution until he admits it?

I don't know which it is with Armstrong, but we all know that doping is out there and that athletes will deny it even when the syringe is sticking out of their butt.

8/25/1210:24 PM

HenryYou rang?

You just want to touch their butts.

8/25/1210:49 PM

rastapackermonMember

Half a billion raised to combat cancer. I could care less about his doping (allegedly).

8/25/1211:02 PM

GreenBayLAMember

LEAVE LANCE ALONE!!!!!!!!!!

8/25/1211:24 PM

FarmDogMember

Prove he was doping. An F'ing conspiracy...

8/26/1212:02 AM

Dr._BobMember

He couldn't pedal as fast as we thought?

8/26/1212:05 AM

CUPackFanMember

It's been so long since Lance has been relevant in the sports world that I truly don't care. Maybe this should feel like a bigger deal, but it barely registers for me. Lance's legacy matters as much to me as the Rockies 2012 season.

8/26/1212:14 AM

PakrzFREEZE!

USADA and the other governing bodies have testing standards in place. Lance was tested hundreds of times during his career without a single dirty test.

This is/was a witch hunt. I can't think of a single athlete that has used his status to help others more than this guy. For that alone, he gets a thumbs up in my book.

8/26/126:44 AM

LarseeBearMember

Well said. Witch hunts and show trials are an integral part of despotism.

Everything should be run by lawyers.

8/26/127:24 AM

Tavis SmileyMember

quote:
Originally posted by Pakrz:

This is/was a witch hunt. I can't think of a single athlete that has used his status to help others more than this guy. For that alone, he gets a thumbs up in my book.

I need someone to explain as to why there's this witch hunt then. It's very hard to argue the money he's raised, and I admit feeling guilty doing so. That said, if he was dirty it still bothers me because it makes me feel like how he got his stature was predicated on lies. Some people could care less as long as he keeps raising money. Still seems self-serving to me. I definitely realize I'm in the minority on this one.

8/26/127:25 AM

ammoCheese Master

What I don't get is how USADA can srtip him of his Tour de France titles. They didn't award them, the French did. The rest are just jealous they couldn't do what Armstrong did so they are out to get him. Lance should have hired Ryan Braun.

8/26/127:32 AM

LarseeBearMember

Tavis, the key word there was "IF".

Innuendo, red herrings, ad hominems, false witness- the demagogues just love 'em.

8/26/127:33 AM

mazrimivOh YEAHH!!

quote:
Originally posted by Tavis Smiley:
I need someone to explain as to why there's this witch hunt then. It's very hard to argue the money he's raised, and I admit feeling guilty doing so. That said, if he was dirty it still bothers me because it makes me feel like how he got his stature was predicated on lies. Some people could care less as long as he keeps raising money. Still seems self-serving to me. I definitely realize I'm in the minority on this one.

To me, the problem with going after Armstrong with no evidence beyond the testimony of others is that the entire sport of cycling was dirty during the Armstrong era. Armstrong was far and away the most tested cyclist of that era, and he came up clean every time. If those test results can be effectively thrown out based on 3rd party testimony, how can the sport claim that anyone was clean during that period without putting in the same effort to find evidence against them?

8/26/127:36 AM

LarseeBearMember

8/26/127:37 AM

Tavis SmileyMember

quote:
Originally posted by LarseeBear:
Tavis, the key word there was "IF".

Innuendo, red herrings, ad hominems, false witness- the demagogues just love 'em.

I'm with you. Why all the allegations then, especially by his own teammates? Are they all in on it and is it just jealousy, or is there something I'm missing? I just find that hard to believe. Again, I'll just let it go and concede this one. But it annoys the hell out of me if I was being duped into thinking this guy was something he really wasn't. The same can be said for Clemens, Braun, and any other athlete who claims their innocense in today's culture of PED's. As fans we're left with our opinions.

8/26/127:48 AM

Tavis SmileyMember

quote:
Originally posted by mazrimiv:
how can the sport claim that anyone was clean during that period without putting in the same effort to find evidence against them?

I think the entire sport was/is a mess and everyone is/was doping. But to your point, the rules and tests were in place and Armstrong passed. I readily admit my opinion is based on others allegations. I just refuse to believe all the allegations are lies though. Just as I feel is and was the case in other sports with other athletes. We can go in circles on this one.

8/26/127:56 AM

"We"-Ka-BongYou ungrateful biscuit eating son of a bitch

If the standard is "hearsay trumps all the testing," you don't see a problem with that?

8/26/127:56 AM

RatPackMember

Doping is more common place than we thing.

Half this forum is doping.

When is Boris releasing TimesFour wonderlic scores?

8/26/127:59 AM

PackLandVAMember

I have not "pissed hot" for at least three seasons. Honest.

8/26/128:03 AM

"We"-Ka-BongYou ungrateful biscuit eating son of a bitch

Can someone please tell me what a mass spectrometer is?

8/26/128:07 AM

PackLandVAMember

Mass Spectrometer - how enlightened one becomes while sitting in a pew....I think.

8/26/128:13 AM

Tavis SmileyMember

quote:
Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:
If the standard is "hearsay trumps all the testing," you don't see a problem with that?

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/...4335.html?c=y&page=1

A good read that shows both sides of the argument. I believe athletes are trying, and are many times successful, in staying ahead of the testing.

8/26/128:26 AM

"We"-Ka-BongYou ungrateful biscuit eating son of a bitch

I don't disagree with your link, but it has nothing to do with my question

8/26/128:27 AM

LarseeBearMember

I think he deserves 7 medals for putting up with that french clusterf*** in the first place.

8/26/128:32 AM

Tavis SmileyMember

quote:
Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:
I don't disagree with your link, but it has nothing to do with my question

I think the athletes are constantly trying to stay ahead of the testing and are in many cases successful in doing so. So then what are we left with but hearesay? We can think what we want about people like Canseco and the late Ken Caminiti, but wasn't it their "hearsay" that fueled the changes we see in testing today? If you choose not to believe any of the "hearsay" you're being naive.

8/26/128:40 AM

"We"-Ka-BongYou ungrateful biscuit eating son of a bitch

I choose to make my decisions based on the information I have, you seem comfortable making decisions based on information that doesn't exist. I heard you are a rapist. Rumors are you have has sex before (some evidence is conflicting), despite no complaints from women, I accuse you of rape. Guilty.

8/26/128:55 AM