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@michiganjoe posted:

Let's state the obvious and say that Seifert's team had a lot more talent than MLF has.

In this first 6 years, Siefert had Joe Montana, Steve Young, Jerry Rice, Charles Haley, Deion Sanders, and Ronnie Lott as future Hall of Famers.

Roger Craig, Rickey Watters, Tim McDonald, and Guy McIntyre (5 Pro Bowls) are in the HOF conversation. John Taylor, Dana Stubblefield and Brent Jones weren't bad either.

Cowher had Rod Woodson, Kevin Greene, Bettis, D. Dawson as future HOFers, and Greg Lloyd, Carnell Lake, and Gary Anderson (his one missed kick for the Vikings in 1998 is probably why he hasn't made it) as in the conversation.

Holmgren had Favre, Reggie, and Leroy Butler. Sean Jones and Eugene Robinson would be borderline guys for their career stats.

Reid probably had the least amount of talent of any of them. He had Brian Dawkins and Terrell Owens as HOFers. I don't think McNabb is a HOFer, but he made 6 Pro Bowls.

MLF had Rodgers and D. Adams as future HOFers earlier, but he has gone 17-11 the last two years without a clear HOF-level player on the roster. The Packers could easily go 12-5 this year and have only 2 guys that even make the Pro Bowl (Jacobs and McKinney).

Hafley was already in an article about the Jets search for their next HC.  One of the sources said they were looking for a long term program builder and that Hafley was all that. Think it was on SI but I couldn't find it among the 84 tabs i had open on my phone.

https://www.si.com/nfl/jets/ne...uted-program-builder

Last edited by DH13

I don't think Hafley is going anywhere after just 1 season as DC. Perhaps if the Packers win it all, you never know, but I think Hafley is enjoying being DC right now. It's challenging as hell with these offenses plus the rules geared towards offensive football anyway.

In 5 days they allowed a grand total of 27 points.

The last 4 games they've allowed 70 points total against 3 of the top 4 offenses in the NFL (avg. 17.5 per game) plus Bears had all brand new un-scouted shit for the Packers with their new OC. Packers are 3-1 in their last 4.

If you hold opponents to 17.5 points or less, the Packers are going to win a lot of games with their offense.

That's quite an accomplishment for a brand new DC plus MLF keeping the ball away from those offenses. Complimentary football 🏈 boys & girls. It works!!!🫡

Last edited by Boris
@SteveLuke posted:

"The curious case of Matt LaFleur’s aversion to 4th downs in 2024"

https://www.acmepackingcompany...alytics-models-lions



Interesting comparison between "meathead" Campbell and MLF.

It appears to me that Meathead is an outlier among the ‘top’ teams.  eagles are in top third but it seems that more of the top teams are risk-averse.  However, MLF at the bottom is not good.

To be fair to MLF, the Pack has not been in that many 4th down situations, but ironically they have been in several 4th downs that maybe suggested going for it when playing Detroit this season and, as the article makes clear, the difference between how Meathead & MLF handled those 4th downs is stark.

Of course no one would really care if Meathead’s teams had not just won their 6th game in the last 7 contests against Green Bay.

I'd have to look at that graph and stat as to fourth-and-what? Fourth-and-a-yard and MLF doesn't go for it? Or is it fourth-and-five? For Detroit in the game, it was:

  • 4th-and-8 at their own 10, punt
  • 4-and-8 own 23, punt
  • 4-and-10 GB 25, field goal
  • 4-and-2 on GB 2, TD
  • 4-and1 own 49, made
  • 4-and-3 GB 3, TD
  • 4-and-1 own 31, lost a yard, GB TD
  • 4-and-1 GB 21, made for the winning FG

When I look at this, who wouldn't go for those last five, except the one on their own 31? Detroit has a good OL, so with one yard to go and in the other team's territory? I'd go too.

By contrast, GB had only four fourth downs:

  • 4-and-6 own 49, punt to Det 8
  • 4-and-5 on Det 47 and GB took the delay and punted to put Det at the 11
  • 4-and-3 own 37, punt for 41 yds, no return
  • 4-and-14 on Det 14, FG (the Watson penalty)
    • On the two fourth downs near midfield, Whelan did his job and pinned Detroit deep. You could argue that MLF should go for it, but I have no problem on the road pinning them deep.

Campbell had a lot shorter yardage on fourth down and better field position to go for it than did MLF. But if I were playing against GB, I'd go for it. Out of 28 tries by other teams, they have made 17 for a 61% success rate; a large number have been short yardage as in the Detroit game. GB has tried 12 and made 6, so 50%.

Overall, Hafley has to figure out a way to keep the other teams from getting a fourth-and-short, especially from the 50 on in on defense. That's where I see the real failing.

To me its a bit simplistic to show a graph for who goes "should" go for it in 4th down and who defines "when they should" go for it?

Sure, MLF very well could be  riisk adverse, but smart coaches don't always have to go for it.  There are obvious times you have to go for it but sometimes its ok to toss out the f**king analytics and go with what you are seeing as a coach.

You also need to look at the 4th down situations.  There is playing it smart and living to play another series and then there is being reckless.  IMHO thinkl the  the best strategy is somewhere in between.

Meathead is a definate outlier but there is going to come a time in a big game like the NFCCG last year where if you are too reckless you blow your teams chances to win in big situations.  Mark my words its going to happen for them and soon.

2-6 against Detroit since Dan Campbell became the coach of the Lions.

2-4 against Minnesota since Kevin O'Connell became coach of the Vikings.

0-2 against Philly since Nick Sirianni became coach of the Eagles.

As Bill Parcells put it, "You are what your record says you are."

Here's hoping MLF and the Pack can turn it around when playing the better teams in the NFC starting with a likely playoff matchup in Philly in less than 2 weeks.

This is the youngest team in the league and it shows in games like this. They come out tight. They commit dumb penalties. They drop passes. It's just not quite their time yet. I know it sucks to hear but it takes experience to win these close games against the top teams and they just don't have it yet.

MLF moved on from a hall of fame QB and has made the playoffs both years. He's a damn good coach but we're seeing the growing pains of having the youngest team in the NFL. I hope the next few years we switch gears and start keeping our guys and signing vets in order to get to that next level. Get to a spot when we aren't expecting 3 or 4 rookies to play major snaps and instead give them more niche roles.

Last edited by CUPackFan
@CUPackFan posted:

This is the youngest team in the league that it shows in games like this. They come out tight. They commit dumb penalties. They drop passes. It's just not quite their time yet. I know it sucks to hear but it takes experience to win these close games and they just don't have it yet.

MLF moved on from a hall of fame QB and has made the playoffs both years. He's a damn good coach but we're seeing the growing pains of having the youngest team in the NFL. I hope the next few years we switch gears and start keeping our guys and signing vets in order to get to that next level.

Right, the youngest team….and sorry, I do forget that.     I should be thankful they’ve come this far.  Meaculpa.   ♥️ 💚 💛

MLF has proven he’s a damn good coach against teams they’re supposed to beat.  He’s proven to be well below average when they are playing good teams, especially in the playoffs.  

It absolutely is a cause for concern.  He’s the modern day Marty Schottenheimer.  

Last edited by Tschmack

The YTITL is a great honor badge but is it any better a strategy for success than the common alternatives?  Has anyone ever tracked, say the next 4 youngest teams in the SB era to see where they peaked? Has any SB winner at any previous point been the YTITL?  Not arguing against it, just questioning if it really is a good way to eventually win rings.

I've thought this about the WR corps since last year but also now for the team in general: could a big step in development come from good vet starters sprinkled in the right places?

I think JJ and X have done exactly that and the right DE, CB or WR could have just as big an impact next year.  The youngsters need to learn how to win in big games but having a few vets who already know could really help that process along.

At some point we need to assess if MLF has improved over his 6 years.  We've seen him at his best and his worst.  Is his best trending upward? Is he still making the same mistakes in big games?  Is he at his ceiling? 

I think MLF is a top 9 coach in the league. Only guy that I can no doubt put ahead of him is Andy Reid. After Reid he's in the group with Kevin O'Connell, Dan Campbell, Jim Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, Kyle Shanahan, and Sean McVay. Depending on how you evaluate, you could say he's better or worse than any of those coaches. None of the other 23 coaches in the league are on his level.

MLF is not perfect and he needs to improve but he is so much better than so many of the coaches in the NFL right now. We can be critical of him but I'm not ready to discuss his future with the team. If he has the Packers in the same spot in 2025 and 2026, then it's time to discuss his future.

 

Coaching decisions or player execution? Even veteran teams fail.

It takes near flawless execution and a little luck to win in the NFL.

I'm enjoying this season and we get at  least 2 more Packer games, which is nice.

@SteveLuke posted:

2-6 against Detroit since Dan Campbell became the coach of the Lions.

2-4 against Minnesota since Kevin O'Connell became coach of the Vikings.

0-2 against Philly since Nick Sirianni became coach of the Eagles.



Does destroying the Cowpokes last year in the playoffs as an underdog count?

And what are those 3 records in the playoffs?  DC 2-1, KOC 0-1, NS 2-3.

MLF 3-4.

My point?  It's hard to win in the NFL.  Especially the playoffs.

I am still not happy with the defense. Just one time when the defense needs to stop a team in the final 2 minutes in order to get the ball back for the offense, why do they fail constantly? Capers, Barry, Bald Guy, and now Hafley all have the same issues. When a team needs 2 yards for a first down how is our guys are five yards off the ball if they are that close. Its been a battle since the epic 4th and 26 game. 

Yesterday’s third down call (for a game-sealing 1st down) was the same play they ran on first down, only opposite side of the field - send the WRs and TE down the field and check in down to FB.

MLF has done an outstanding job.  Yes, some on this site are extremely spoiled.  The Packers are again this season the youngest team in the league.  For most players it takes a few years for consistent play to kick in no matter how much they’re coached up.  For example…#56 - Cooper has made some great plays this season and then some obvious whiffs.  That’s what’s so frustrating…we see when this team plays great and can beat any team in the league and then in other games like yesterday until the 4th they look like they have no clue.  Our draft and development system is working but we have to have patience.  D&D and then add vets like McKinney etc.

Last edited by Packy

Evaluating MLF's development as a HC isn't being spoiled.  No one is saying he needs to be replaced.  But he deserves evaluation, praise and criticism like anybody does.  I agree he is a top 10 or 8 HC but do we see him at his ceiling or do we see him improving.  Maybe it's not realistic to ask those questions of a HC that has been in the league 10-20yrs but he's still young so you have to ask yourself if he's improving or not as he adds years to his resume.

   

As great as Belichick was, he had Brady and strong defenses.

As great as Lombardi was, he had Starr and strong defenses.

As great as Walsh was, he had Montana and strong defenses.

They all had great OL play as well.

Landry with Staubach... Noll with Bradshaw...

The list goes on.



The pieces are starting to fall into place for LaFleur/GB. Is this year the year, probably not, but I expect them to be better next year. I also believe they can win it all this year if they are near flawless and have a little luck.

@H5 posted:

   

As great as Belichick was, he had Brady and strong defenses.

As great as Lombardi was, he had Starr and strong defenses.

As great as Walsh was, he had Montana and strong defenses.

They all had great OL play as well.

Landry with Staubach... Noll with Bradshaw...

The list goes on.



The pieces are starting to fall into place for LaFleur/GB. Is this year the year, probably not, but I expect them to be better next year. I also believe they can win it all this year if they are near flawless and have a little luck.

Much like most teams who get in the playoffs…a little luck and playing near flawless ball will win a lot of games.

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