NOT CAPERS FAULT!

Well, I guess I was a dum dum thinking that Dom Dom was the major, if not single reason why the Packers D sucks.  After hearing both sides of the argument, I think its more on the players.  Our D is too freakin slow!  Whether this is due to a lack of athleticism or smarts/confidence to handle the speed of the game is something I am not too sure on.  But in either case, TT has to get Dom a few quality players or just get rid of Dom in favor of someone who can simplify the defense for the younger players TT tends to favor. 

I was a huge fan of Doms for the first couple of years.  That D back then was so freakin exciting to watch.  Perhaps the acquisition of a few quality players can bring that D back.

Yep, I am a flip flopper!

Capers is not without fault.  There are certain things he could have done to try to improve the situation (putting Perry on the right side, for example).  But getting healthy and adding some improved talent would go a long way to improving the defense.

If I am reading this correctly, fault lies greater on the players (and Ted, for bringing in these players) for being one of the worst defenses in the NFL.  Also, if there were more talented, veteran players, the defense would improve. 

I fail to see where that condition makes you a great coach and someone we don't want to consider replacing.   

When a thread gets this long there's nothing left to say but duh-worthy posts. 

Better players will make our D better - duh.

Better coaching would make our D better - duh. 

Healthy players are better than injured ones - duh.

Does that pretty much cover everything?

can you cover that third point one more time, a little slower

...and several teams need a new stadium so the NFL is licking their wieners-duh

or so we've been told. 

Exactly.

Thank you for summarizing this thread far more succinctly that PJ did

and there were dozens of veteran free agents for all the needed positions available for reasonable cost. duh

per PFF

Morgan Burnett gave up a QB passer rating of 135.8

M.D. Jennings gave up a QB passer rating of 148.8

ouch...

Their total suck was suckier than the sum of their individual suck.

Nope.

The thread has been primarily about how much the above categories apply to the Packers defense.

Such as some think Capers is OK and it's the injuries, some others admit to injuries, but think the problem is mainly Capers.

And so on.

I believe a coach should adapt his system to the talent, not the talent to his system -- Don Shula

How do you adapt a system to MD Jennings?

you saw it already

MD Jennings is amazing on the bench. Elevates a defense immediately.

I recently read this in America's Game by Mike MacCambridge.  This was written when writing about the early 2000's.

Bill Walsh was convinced that there was a 20% chance factor in the outcome of games---that what coaches could control they did, obsessively. Even as coaches had less control off the field, they'd assumed more control over players on the field. With less distance between the best and worst teams, it  (coaching) was more important than ever before in the NFL.

"Kids aren't playing football in their backyards anymore", said the Bengals Marvin Lewis. "They're playing it with their thumbs."  Rookies needed more teaching, but in the pressurized environment they were being rushed into action sooner. 

While free agency gave general managers and personnel directors more influence, with the ability to acquire pro talent as well as college talent, this freedom was tempered by the knowledge that the players brought in had to fit the coach's system.

Said Ernie Accorsi, "Coaches today dominate the game so much, there's much more scheming, it's so much more complicated, that to me, they've almost taken the players out of the there. The game now has become even more complicated---the players still decide it, but to less of an extent then they used to."

So even 15 years ago it was becoming a coaches driven game. And it is even more important today to have a coach the fits the players and a scheme that fits the players.   The line after the Marvin Lewis quote is exactly what happened to the Packers defense this season.

It looks like MM and TT are taking the road to get the players to fit the Capers scheme rather than fire Capers and find a coach that fits the current talent.

Then there's the Pete Carroll philosophy on scheming Defense, as articulated in the link below. Its worth the read, gives a good analysis on difference between a 1 gap and 2 gap D line scheme. Also covers Carroll from laughingstock (Jets & Pats) to successful coach (USC & Seahags).

Carroll's 4-3 Under explained.

 (edit, I just saw that Satori posted the same link in another thread earlier, props to him, but still a good read nonetheless)

I'm also reading how new Vikings coach Zimmer took the Bengals from the 27th-rated defense to the top 10 for the past three years by fitting the scheme to the players. The Grantland article talks about Carroll fitting the scheme to the players. Belichek: Fit the scheme to the players. So... why does it feel like Capers wants the players to fit into his scheme?

BZZZZZ....That's a problem!

Because he's more tactician than coach.

Yeah, I know. I've said it again and again. I guess I'm just frustrated with Capers and how loyal MM is to him. Fitting the scheme to the players is the essence of coaching, and I think Capers is more of a mad scientist than a teacher. If it's this frustrating for me, I can't imagine what it's like to be a player trying to do the right thing and not being able to and then being blamed. I wonder if Greene's leaving, if voluntary, isn't a case of frustration. "Spending time with family" can also be a euphanism for "I need out of here."

quote:

I'm also reading how new Vikings coach Zimmer took the Bengals from the 27th-rated defense to the top 10 for the past three years by fitting the scheme to the players.

Why?  Even Capers scheme manned by stupid rookies and AJ Hawk can contain Ponder

Packers should move Hawk to TE coach ASAP. No ones better at getting TE's open. Gets him off the field on D. Two birds. One stone. 

Wilde confirmed that Joe Whitt's contract goes through 2014 (as I think does Perry's and Trgovac's), so if there are more moves coming with the D coaches, some may be getting fired.

‏@ESPNStatsInfo 

Advantage: NFC: Of the previous 12 Super Bowl meetings between top-3 scoring offenses and defenses, the defensive-minded team won 9 times.

Here's a new one from Ty Dunne at JSO

He's been making the rounds at the Senior Bowl

http://www.jsonline.com/sports...931z1-241988611.html

Dick LeBeau: " That's life. But I know that wherever he goes, they're going to receive excellent preparation, coaching.

"There's none better than Coach Capers. There is none better."

"The league insiders never, ever waver. They insist Capers is still one of the brightest defensive minds in the game. Period.

The coordinator isn't the problem.

In Mobile, that was the overwhelming consensus."

"LeBeau. Gus Bradley. Romeo Crennel. They all beat the same drum.

In Capers, they repeat, the Packers are led by one of the best in the game."

"He's as good a football coach as anybody," LeBeau said. "I don't care who you're talking about. He is in my opinion."

.

What nice things to say

How can you win a playoff game with the worst ILBs in the game backed up by the worst Ss?

And maybe Greene left when he saw the last OLB standing was Datrone Jones. 

Then we lose Shields and have to insert Bush??????????

So many frickin lemons Capers couldn't make lemonade.

Then if MM runs Lacy three times on first 'n goal instead of wildcat then 2 shotguns, we win the game. DUH (We need a new fulltime O coordinator not a new D coordinator.)

Its quite the brotherhood among NFL coaches isn't it ? (At least publicly)

And they are just smart enough to leave the ripping, kvetching, bittching, whining and pussy-pouting to the all-knowing fans.

" A man has to know his limitations..."

For your consideration:

2013: 8th

2012: 5th

2011: 1st

2010: 10th

2009: 3rd

2013: t24th

2012: 11th

2011: 19th

2010: 2nd

2009: 7th

Both represent points per game.  The first set is our offense, the second our defense.  You want to replace the guy who has been consistently in the top 10. 

I lean in the direction that between Capers and personnel, the issue is much more the personnel.

Rankings don't matter nearly as much as how many other coaches say nice things about you.  I don't see any quotes talking up the offensive guy, whereas there are several people saying awfully nice things about the defensive guy. 

The 2011 defensive ppg looks worse than it should because there were some garbage time points put up by opposing teams when the Packers had comfortable leads.

In 2013 we couldn't stop anybody. The defense hasn't always been this bad. 

And what has changed between then and now?  Either the players got worse or Dan Compers changed his offseason routine from studying tape to launching himself off of balconies onto concrete patios head-first.  

The good news is that X4 has its boogey man for the offseason.  

I don't think Dan Compers is the greatest, but I sure don't think the fix is as easy as Fire Capers Now!

During the stretch when AR was out I watched or rewatched 3 or 4 games with a focus on defensive scheme vs players....and I saw a lot of times when the scheme had a defender in position or assigned to the offensive player and our guy just could not make the play.

Jerret Bush was assigned containment on the play when Keapernick had the big run on the last drive, and he failed to hold his contain.

I'd bet the number of missed tackles by the Packer defense is significantly higher than the other playoff defenses this season.

The next question is if you don't have the players to execute the scheme, do you scrap the scheme or hope they learn and improve in the scheme they've been taught?

Defensive Rankings are only 1 piece of data, but lets play around a bit and see what we can see

In points allowed Capers defense was:

7th, 2nd, 19th, 11th and now 24th

If we throw out the high ( 2) and low (24) we're left with an average of 13th

More than good enough to win a Championship given that the most recent World Champions were defensively ranked:

Ravens 12th

Giants 13th

Packers 2nd,

Saints 20th

What's that you say ?

Capers defense was the best- ranked out of the last 4 SB winners ?

Unpossible

Not Capers (you moron).

AJ Hawk is the boogeyman

I'd love an average defense