Originally Posted by Hungry5:
I thought the window was just opening now and things look bright for the next 5-6 years?
This organization lies. As soon as Arod turned 30, it was over. No QB has ever won a Super Bowl in their 30's, ya know.
Originally Posted by DH13:
So if BPA is never not S in RD1-3 for 2014 draft, who goes next to Burnett?
Maybe if you draft the next Reggie White he can help the team overcome the crappy safeties.
Originally Posted by Goalline:
This organization lies.
It's called "brainwashing" Let's get the history straight.
Hey AtTheMurph,
What an outstanding post.
Thanks!
If you are the Vikings, Jags, Browns, etc BPA is a great philosophy. When you have holes everywhere how can you miss. But if the BPA in the 2014 draft when the Packers are on the clock in every round would be say a QB or WR, then TT better not go solely on BPA but he'd better be BPA that fills a need.
I've just read much of this thread and it ranks with the most substantive stuff I have ever read in a Packer (or any other sports) forum.
Seriously.
You guys lay out the issues and support them, that's for sure. There's the post showing the difference in quality drafts between SF and the Pack. Posts on development (though that was well refuted in some cases), stuff on the injury situation, posts on how # all pros correlates to the quality of a defense and what it takes for it to be top notch.
The posts lay source of the problem to different places though, depending. Coaching, injuries, quality of draft, GM.
I wrote a post in one of the two busy Caper's topics. It invited to assign a % to different categories of purported sources of what has contributed to our poor defense.
I wish some of you guys would share such thoughts! It has to be some combination of all, I think. And so to accurately describe the situation, you need to drill down into how much blame is placed where.
Such as assigning %'s.
Originally Posted by CAPackFan95:
So, where they definitely have had the luxury of better spots to pick than GB, really, they've only had one more Top 10 pick than us 2005-2013. They picked Alex Smith, V. Davis, and Aldon Smith. We've picked Hawk and Raji.
Don't forget Crabtree. He was drafted 1 slot after Raji
Good catch. Still, only 1 Top 10, and only 2 Top 20 picks on defense for them.
Originally Posted by Point Brewmaster:
"You're challenged with young guys," Williams said, a day after the Packers were knocked out of the playoffs. "Talented, young guys get played, but the game is still fast for them because they don't understand what teams are trying to do, they don't understand the scheme fully, they don't understand what the scheme can do for them, if they understand it.
Well, obviously then, a team that trots out a defense with an average age of 26 among the starting 11, only 3 starters over the age of 26, and only 4 starters with more than 4 years of experience must be a complete and total disaster. Just imagine how "slow" they look as the game is too fast for them. Imagine how often they must look bad because the don't understand the scheme fully.
I pity the fans of the Seattle for having to witness what must be an abomination of a defense.
Originally Posted by DH13:
Originally Posted by Johnson:
3rd and 7---why have a Linebacker in at all? But to spy Kaepernick with an injured player instead of any available DB---is crazy
Who were these available DB's you would move off covering Crabtree, Davis, Patton, whatever other receivers were on the field?
I was wrong--Mulumba wasn't spying-he was playing end-and was containing----Lattimore would have been a better choice..Banjo was available to spy--which is what I would have done....but there is a reason I'm watching games from the couch--I still hold out hope Dom joins me on the couch next season...Mulumba is gonna be good, but is only hurting the team playing hobbled---same with James Jones--
Mike Spofford's little video is elementary, but good
And to that, Tit, here's my gripe about our defense and Capers' job these past couple of years. From the article: "But Bush seems to have been mixed-up on the play call, which left Boldin running free and possibly divided Burnett’s attention. The constant miscommunication and confusion by this defense is frustrating, and has to fall on Dom Capers."
Now granted, Bush doesn't play DB too often as he's an excellent ST guy, but how does an 8-year vet blow it like this? Who's coaching these guys? Bush lets Boldin go free, now Burnett is in a danged-if-you-do-danged-if-you-don't position and no one wins. It's making sure every guy knows what to do in every situation and communicating it clearly, and that goes back to coaching/teaching. And if it's the guy on the field who isn't making it clear what the call is, then the coaches need to recognize that and give the playcall to someone who can do the job.
I wish it was only this play that it happened, but it's been so many over the past couple years. I have to wonder if Burnett is as bad as everyone thinks he is or if he's put into these either-or decisions more times than we know. Either way, it goes back to coaching.
Originally Posted by titmfatied:
Very interesting. I totally agree with the last sentence: "Burnett needs to learn how to get a step closer to that play more consistently." I'm just not sure he can. He's been a step away since the day he got to Green Bay. I'm not sure if that's going to change after 4 seasons.
It depends on where Burnett was supposed to be. Was he supposed to immediately double the guy down the middle? Was he supposed to pick up anyone who came free? Was he supposed to read the QB's eyes and go there? I can't totally fault Burnett without knowing the call because I can see where as a safety, he sees a guy coming wide open and he hesitates to see if the QB is going there or not.
Disagree.
Put a competent safety next to Burnett & he will be 1 step closer instead of having to cover for the ineptitude at the other safety spot
Well, yes, Boris. If he has a competent guy next to him he doesn't have to hesitate to see where the play is going. Oh, wait. I think you were disagreeing with heyward?
CAPackFan95,
In response to the 9'ers putting together the D with pick and FA's. I would argue that they would never get Dorsey, Rogers and Whitner, if they had to pay their QB market value. It's the same with the Seahags, if you have a QB or impact player, playing out of their mind for a few years before you have to pay, you can load up other parts of your team, before the bill is due. The true test of how good the 9'ers and Hags will be when they have to fork over the dough to their QB, and how that will affect the rest of the team, for depth, or quality players.
Originally Posted by Fandame:
Oh, wait. I think you were disagreeing with heyward?
Agree 
Originally Posted by Fandame:
Well, yes, Boris. If he has a competent guy next to him he doesn't have to hesitate to see where the play is going. Oh, wait. I think you were disagreeing with heyward?
You'd think he would know better by now.
Originally Posted by PackerRuss:
CAPackFan95,
In response to the 9'ers putting together the D with pick and FA's. I would argue that they would never get Dorsey, Rogers and Whitner, if they had to pay their QB market value. It's the same with the Seahags, if you have a QB or impact player, playing out of their mind for a few years before you have to pay, you can load up other parts of your team, before the bill is due. The true test of how good the 9'ers and Hags will be when they have to fork over the dough to their QB, and how that will affect the rest of the team, for depth, or quality players.
Don't disagree, but also keep in mind that when they signed J Smith and Brooks, they were paying Smith #1 pick money when that was a pretty significant contract, and the niners weren't really viewing him as the answer...
Originally Posted by Goalline:
Originally Posted by DH13:
So if BPA is never not S in RD1-3 for 2014 draft, who goes next to Burnett?
Maybe if you draft the next Reggie White he can help the team overcome the crappy safeties.
Yes, the extreme example is always the best way to interpret. I have run out of ways to say "I think TT will fill the other S spot with a FA if he can't get Dix". Never said I agreed or disagreed, just a prediction.
Originally Posted by heyward:
Originally Posted by Fandame:
Well, yes, Boris. If he has a competent guy next to him he doesn't have to hesitate to see where the play is going. Oh, wait. I think you were disagreeing with heyward?
You'd think he would know better by now.
Yes, I forgot, You know more than 99.9% of the people on this board.
Guess that makes me the .1%'er
Originally Posted by Boris:
Originally Posted by heyward:
Originally Posted by Fandame:
Well, yes, Boris. If he has a competent guy next to him he doesn't have to hesitate to see where the play is going. Oh, wait. I think you were disagreeing with heyward?
You'd think he would know better by now.
Yes, I forgot, You know more than 99.9% of the people on this board.
Guess that makes me the .1%'er
The primary concern here seems to be that the Packers don't have as good of a defense as the 49ers- which is true - but why is everyone so worked up about that? Does anybody want the Packers to trade places with the 49ers? They haven't won a Super Bowl since 1994. Sure, they still have a shot at one this year, but would you give up the 2010 trophy for a chance at one this year?
And going forward, there's no reason to believe they are better setup to win more Super Bowls than the Packers. The 49ers don't have as good of an offense as the Packers do. Kaepernick is a far cry from Aaron Rodgers and their superstar RB is nearing the end of his career while the Packers' RB is just getting started.
The games Green Bay played against San Fran were much closer this year than they were last - and a lot can change in another year. The 49ers 2012 draft turned out about as badly a draft possibly could - the first round pick is already gone, and zero players have made significant contributions to the team. And the 2013 49ers draft hasn't been much better. Reid is okay, but no one else has shown much promise.
I'd like to see GB get to the post season healthy. Or healthier than the past 3 years.
Theres an upside to crash course development for guys like Hyde. Richardson, Malumba, and Lattimore that are forced to take on bigger roles because of injuries. As long as they learn. Playoff losses only help if the kids learn from them and keep developing.
Morgan Burnett needs to step his game up, plain and simple. I agree that he'd probably look better with a NFL safety playing next to him but that's more of an excuse than anything. Step up, elevate your game and make others around you better.
Originally Posted by titmfatied:
Thanks for this post--Initially I thought it was a bad decision by Burnett-but he really had no choice
Mike Vandermause has this opinion piece on Capers.
The much-ballyhooed 2012 draft, in which Thompson selected defensive players with his first six picks, had virtually no impact this season other than Daniels.
First-rounder Nick Perry was injury prone and inconsistent; second-rounder Jerel Worthy is coming off major knee surgery but was no great shakes last season before he got hurt; second-rounder Hayward was a nonfactor because of a hamstring injury; and fourth-rounder Jerron McMillian and fifth-rounder Terrell Manning weren’t good enough to keep.
To add to the Packers’ woes, 2013 first-rounder Datone Jones was a disappointment and played only in defensive line subpackages. Meanwhile, the only defensive player left from the 2011 draft is backup cornerback Davon House.
Can't really disagree with that piece from Vandermause; my issue with him is a continued unwillingness to assign any blame whatsoever to Capers for the defensive shortcomings. In his world it appears to be either the fault of Capers or TT and it's not quite that simple.
Hey michiganjoe,
You're not saying he's too binary, are you?
Originally Posted by michiganjoe:
Can't really disagree with that piece from Vandermause; my issue with him is a continued unwillingness to assign any blame whatsoever to Capers for the defensive shortcomings. In his world it appears to be either the fault of Capers or TT and it's not quite that simple.
...I emailed Vandermause and posed two questions: 1) How much input does the defensive staff have on draft picks & is it possible that Capers himself pushed for some of these draft choices 2) Even though the defense had a lot of injuries and players who under performed, doesn't the fact that we seem to have so many mental mistakes in our pass coverages, make you question if the scheme is too complex for the players we have. He has returned my emails in the past, so I'll be interested to see if / how he responds.
After watching the The Panther/Niner game today--I must say-- the Panthers with a much better squad faired no better than Capers depleted D....It didn't help that Newton and their offense was really bad and the Niners got some remarkable breaks---but not having seen the Chargers this year---I was surprised at how average they looked
I wouldn't necessarily say Datone was a disappointment, he still had 3.5 sacks. That was good enough for 2nd in the NFL (behind Ziggy Ansah) among rookie Defensive Linemen (including DT's and DE's in all schemes). No he didn't make the consistent impact in all areas that maybe Sheldon Richardson (NYJ) did, which is disappointing, but it's not often rookie DL make a great impact. It seems maybe 1 or 2 rookie DL per year make a killer impact immediately. He showed some pass rush talent and he showed tremendous versatility. No he didn't blow it up like va-JJ Watt, but he showed a lot of promise.
Originally Posted by Johnson:
--- not having seen the Chargers this year---I was surprised at how average they looked
They had no business even being in the playoffs. Got in because the Chiefs kicker can't make a very make-able FG. Then the Bengals $HIT the bed by turning the ball over 4 times allowing them to advance into Denver.
FYI....The last 3 Super Bowl winners played on Wild Card weekend.
Guess who's left? Embrace it, get used to it. They need to fill that $1.2 Billion stadium next year. They're going to have every opportunity to get back into the Super Bowl. I expect the Seattle fans will be blaming the refs (again).
If the Patriots run the ball like they did vs. the Colts, I don't see how Denver can win barring turnovers.
Niners / Patriots for the right to claim Lombardi this year.
Seattle's defense will shut down the 49ers.
I have a hard time seeing a SF win in this game.
Pats / Seahawks
IMO JMO IMHO
I think it will be the Niners and Donkey's. Niner's will put up about 20, while Seattle won't be able to get past 17.