Brad Jones is the current version of Brandon Chillar: good utility and sub-package LB (though I think Chillar was better overall) but not the guy you want on base downs as the preferred starter.

Banjo and Bell give up 20-30 pounds on CK, and one is an O player, while the other is a rookie.  Would they make a play, possibly, but the probability is that CK would juke them or run over them?

 

Everyone has their panties in a bunch about Bush losing containment, would the same be true if Bush didn't jump to deflect a pass (that he could) so he could keep containment.

 

I would argue that the results of the game, would be different if Neal was rushing the passer and Shields were on the field during the whole game.  

 

Perspective!! 

A spy should be all about quickness, not size IMO. By definition he has to read and react to the QB.

 

QB wants to scramble right....beat him to the spot and make him either turn back in or try and run you over, slowing him down either way so your team mates can have time to help you out.

 

A bigger, slower defender as a spy is ineffective if the QB can easily outrun him. Even worse if the QB knows he can easily outrun the spy.  The doubt put into the QB's mind by a quicker spy defender is part of the defensive strategy.

http://www.packers.com/news-an...dd-a7d7-9708bb4cd4c2

 

Ralph from Bridgeport, CT

So, from what I’m sensing, the Packers are considering switching to a 4-3.

OLB Mike Neal

I, too, am intrigued by Dom Capers’ answer to the question I asked him about what needs to be done in the offseason. “We have to figure out what our group’s going to be and we’ll design what we’ll do off what our group is going to be,” Capers said. Wow! That answer gives rise to a lot of speculation. Obviously, Coach Capers is referring to the potential for significant losses on defense in free agency. He’s going to lose his nose tackle tomorrow, and nose tackles are at the heart of a 3-4 defense. Coach Capers is telling us he’ll design a scheme for whatever talent is available to him. He’s not picking the scheme and then fitting the players into it, he’s going to let the talent available to him “pick” the scheme. Why do it that way? Because it’s players, not plays. Coach Capers isn’t married to the 3-4. I’ve written that repeatedly. He coached a 4-3 in Jacksonville in 1999 and it was No. 1 in points allowed and sacks, and No. 4 in yards. Moving Mike Neal to linebacker is an example of Coach Capers’ ability to utilize personnel. I remember seeing Neal at linebacker in OTAs last spring and imagining Neal being used 5-10 plays a game as a rusher. As it turned out, he played more downs at outside linebacker than any other outside linebacker on the team. How’s that for utilization of personnel?

So, lets just use 40 times, for the players.  CK ran a 4.5, Banjo ran a 4.5, and Bell ran a 4.7, and plays O.  So, which one of those players would CK know he can't outrun?  

You gotta be kidding me. So now if you want Capers to go, it's apparently reflective of your life outlook to ignore the advice and opinions of "experts"? Give me a break -- maybe that was intended to be a tounge in cheek remark, but I think it's safe to say no one should really be commenting on others' life strategies because of their opinion on Dom Capers.

 

As to the actual content, it seems like you are saying two things:

1) The 2012 defense was good

2) If Capers was so bad, how come NFL GMs, coaches, and players haven't said so

 

For #1, I think reasonable people can disagree on how effective that defense was. It's true, they were 11th ranked in total points. I don't think that's a particular informative ranking for a few reasons: a) sometimes that's a result of who you play. In 2012 they faced teams QB'd by Gabbert, Skelton, Locker, Ponder x2, and Russell Wilson in his third game when his coaches played very conservative. b) The Packers benefit in "points allowed" by having a QB who is among the best in league history in limiting turnovers...this year alone they had, what, three pick 6's without Rodgers?; c) I would also argue a good defensive team would not be capable of putting on one of the worst defensive performances in playoff history in that divisional game. But again, reasonable people can disagree. The broader point is that Capers and the defense's struggles go beyond the final 8 game of this season when they struggled with injuries. They've been persistent since 2010.

 

For #2, I just don't buy that someone can't be ineffective if players, coaches, and GMs don't publicly say it. These guys are professionals...how often do you see a GM or coach publicly bash another coach? Do you think Greg Roman is going to come out and say Capers is a joke? Of course not. As it turns out, Woodson and some others actually have made some less than supportive comments in the past. But that's not really relevant...you judge these guys on their results, not what GM's, Coaches, and players say about them in the press. What speaks louder to me than a cliche a GM or coach makes about Capers is his track record. He's been fired twice as head coach. He was fired as defensive coordinator by the Dolphins. I've heard no rumors of any team trying to hire him away from Green Bay to be a head coach or defensive coach. That doesn't mean the league thinks he's a hack. But just because some professionals toss some compliments his way doesn't mean they think he's right for their teams either.

 

Holy crap.  So you want to take one of the players we had on defense, the defense that could barely field 11 able-bodied players, and make his primary objective spying the QB?  Whatever 11 we had sunday were going to have a hard enough time defending SF non-QB players.  There is no way we could have afforded the luxury of a spy.  The only guy on the roster capable of spying KC was CM and he would have had to use binoculars.

A spy was used on several plays during the game.

 

The point I am responding to is the complaint about Capers using slow LBs including a limping Mulumba instead of a DB for the job.

So, a DC should only employ a spy if he has a defensive player who is both bigger and clocked a faster 40 time than the QB back in the NFL combine which may have been several years ago?

 

You better get on the phone will all the NFL DCs who have to game play against Keapernick and Cam Newton and other running QBs...and tell them they are doing it wrong.

I was responding to your point of spying CK on the play at the end of the game.  You suggested pulling a DB off of someone to do that, and then said Bell or Banjo.  I understand the concept of spying, and I also understand that you don't put a RB as a spy in the most crucial part of the game.  Would it have been better if Mulumba wasn't hurt, or CMIII was available, guess what, they weren't?  

 

As for the 40 times, it was quick analysis of you mentioning the fact that we had all sorts of options for spy's (quicker, faster), when it's pretty clear we didn't.  

Rong.

I never suggested "pulling a DB off of someone".

Another poster suggested pulling the limping Malumba off the field on certain plays and replacing him with a DB spy......the question was then asked "what DBs did we have left?"........my answer was Banjo, or maybe even Bell if you had no other option.

 

 

As for the 40 times, it was quick analysis of you mentioning the fact that we had all sorts of options for spy's (quicker, faster), when it's pretty clear we didn't. 

 Double RONG.

 

I never said we "had all sorts of options for spys". I said Banjo and maybe Bell in a pinch.

 

I never said faster than Keapernick.
Faster than limping Malumba or Hawk???? Yes we certainly did have options. 

 

To add, I cannot recall one single team trying to pry away a Winston Moss, Darren Perry, Mike Trogovac, Or Joe Whitt to any promotional coaching opportunities (e.g. defensive coordinator, or HC). Moss might have gotten an interview with McKenzie as a Rooney Rule in OAK. Other then that. Nothing.

 

Contrast that to MM's offensive staff. Joe Phiblin. Ben Macadoo. Tom Clements (Bears x 2). These assistants/coordinators have garnered interested and MM has promoted Bennett and appears to be grooming him or OC one day.

 

This also from a team that has made the playoffs 5 straight years.

 

Yet no one is banging down GB's door to take any of these defensive coaches of Capers or Capers himself (as a HC).

Wouldn't you say that Capers has had his fill of HC opportunities.  He has been the HC of two different teams, both starting from scratch, and was let go, within a couple of years of getting the team up and going.  

 

As for the rest of the staff, your right, not much of a sniff, but maybe that has to do with performance on the field, and right now on the defensive side of the ball, the performance hasn't been great.  A mix of coaching and personnel issues being factors.  

I guess you need to tell DC's all over the league that if your down to the bottom of the barrell, just use a back-up RB to spy CK and you'll be all good.  

 

Refusing offers because he's content with DC and doesn't want to be HC is one thing.

 

Not getting any offers or at least rumored to be on a list of candidates to fill X job is another. I don't recall Capers being on any list of any potential HCing position from 2011-present.

 

But more concerning should be that none of his assistants are either.

Didn't MM coordinate the leagues worst offense prior to being selected as the Packer head coach?

Have you ever noticed you don't ever respond to what is actually written?

 

It makes you look dum.

Yes, but that wasn't why you called for his firing in 2010 was it ?

 

Cheers dude, just having some fun today....

Does the NFL allow 007 as a player number?

You are number six.

I am not a number, I am a free man!

 

Jesus **** your memory is good. 

Not bad for a stoner eh ?

I bet Satori has detailed files on all of us and the dum schit we've posted over the years.

Satori works for the NSA?

Maybe Satori, is this guy......

 

ESPN analyst Trent Dilfer has ideas about why Colin Kaepernick owns the Packers' defense

jsonline.com

by Bob Wolfey on 1-9-14

 

“I would challenge people, you can see this on your TV - you don’t need the coaches’ film to see this all the time - one pattern I’ve seen against Colin that is very effective and that the Green Bay Packers hardly ever do is when defenders drop with eyeballs on him.”

 

Dilfer cited three kinds of defense from a quarterback’s perspective: trail, glove and retreat. 

 

In trail coverage the defender trails the receiver with no eyes on the quarterback. In glove, zone defenders sometimes are looking at the quarterback and sometimes at the receiver.

The third kind is the most effective against Kaepernick, according to Dilfer. 

 

The retreat defenses include Tampa two, or spot dropping like Seattle employs. 

 

“As linebackers get depth into their zones, their eyeballs are on the quarterback,” Dilfer said. “They are staring at you. Colin has really struggled against that kind of defensive profile. I don’t know why, but that is a profile defense he has yet to figure out. The Green Bay Packers never play that style of defense in their repertoire. So he doesn’t have to have that discomfort playing against a profile defense he hasn’t quite figured out yet.

 

“Don’t take my word for it,” Dilfer said. “Watch it. You’ll see a lot of Colin’s bad plays - and Carolina plays a lot of this type of defense - their eyeballs are on him. And they are dropping back. OK, are you throwing it? We’re going to break on the ball. Oh, you’re going to run it? OK, we’re going to come up. I’m seeing you run. So I’m going to come up and I’m going to try and make a play on you. He doesn’t play with the same confidence when he is playing against that style of defense.”

continue

 

It occurred to me that this discussion could be broken down into assigning a %contribution to poor defense to various categories.  Off hand, I can think of four.

 

1. So few high draft choices.

2. Pre-injury talent on team outside of Contribution #1.  This would be TT's fault.  Although I think a couple injuries ought to be allowed though not to star players, perhaps.

3. Coaching - Caper's fault.

4. Injuries.

 

I am gonna take a quick, rough stab at this.

 

1. 15%

2. 25%

3. 20%

4. 40%

 

55% no one's fault (few good draft choices + injuries), 25% TT, and 20% Capers.

 

I think even pre-injury talent is not so hot.

 

Something like that.

explain your "few high draft choices" thinking

Packers been so good so long they rarely end up in the top 10 in drafts.

so first round picks don't fall into your high draft choices category?

You know what I mean.  I guess to be statistical about it, the Packers draft selection at every round averages ~25/32.  So it's not a correct assessment to qualify by the position of a single draft #. 

 

It is rightly qualified by the average position in the draft at all of the rounds (weighing higher more than lower, of course).  It is the quality of the draft as a whole. 

 

The Packers have had a low quality draft for what seems like ages to me and that thanks to the quality of the organization as a whole.

Dilfer uses the Panthers and the Seahawks as his examples? Er Trent, those teams kick everyone's butts. How about examples of crappy defenses like ours who had success stopping the guy?

Dilfer says the Packers need to give more of a Tampa 2 look or just keep more eyes on the QB, did he watch the game against Kaep in week 1? That's pretty much what the Packers did and he had great success throwing the ball. Why?
Because 1) that's not the strength of this defense. They have CBs whose strength is man coverage and you're asking them to get out of their comfort zone 2) they don't have an ILB who can effectively drop back and disrupt those intermediate routes which is where Bolden did most of his damage and 3) they tried to force Kaep to beat them with his arm and he rose to the challenge. Dilfer acts like it's some mystery or some easy solution Capers just didn't think of. You gotta have the right personnel to beat a duel threat QB with a great supporting cast.

If Hyde squeezes the pick then the commentary is how Kap has regressed from his breakout 2012 season. that's playoff football. The talking heads know the average attention span only has time to digest 30,000 foot snapshots. GB didn't have the horses to top SF without coming up nails on the 3-4 plays they needed to make to move on. The average ESPN'er glazes over if you get too deep into details. 

Dilfer is very astute about football.  He brings up some very good points.  Stuff that doesn't sound too overly scientific or complex.  So my question would be, is because of personnel or philosophy that makes it difficult for the Packers to craft a strategy that works against CK.  Guess we'll see on Sunday.  If the Panthers bottle-up CK, then you know the Packers are playing off the wrong page.

 

And while it appears that Capers will return, ya gotta think MM will lay down some fairly stringent objectives and goals for 2014.

If Carolina sits their starting OLB, 2 DLinemen, 2 DB's, asks their FS to wear a blindfold, and asks Kuechly to play wearing a concrete life preserver and they bottle up CK I agree Capers might not be the right guy.

It pisses me off to keep playing the injury card but GB has to stop bringing butter knives to playoff gunfights.

Great post Chilli. Some of us need our eyes opened.

That's why I assigned 40% to injuries.

 

One thing though.  The Collins loss is a couple years now.  The lack at S and ILB lies somewhat at TT's door.

 

That's fair, isn't it?

Disagree.

 

The Packer offense has no excuse for not scoring more than 23 points. 

 

The season average with AR at QB is 30.6 points per game. Including scoring 28 against the 49ers earlier this season.

 

Hell, the PPG WITHOUT AR and Cobb was 21.5!

 

This was a playoff game. They were without Carlos Rodgers. We know we have a shaky defense. 

 

SCORE SOME POINTS!!!