+/- of kicking a fucking FG

@Timpranillo posted:

Really a perfect summation of this franchise over the past 10 years.

Led by a GM that does almost nothing to improve the holes in the team. Continually drafts for the mythical team of 3-4 years from now. Makes a rare leap in to Free Agency - has it show actual dividends - and then backs off of doing it again for god knows what reason. Feels like he does it once just to avoid the questions from the press/fans "but I did utilize Free Agency with [Woodson/Z Smith]!"

A Defense that depends on opponents making mistakes. A scheme that is good enough most of the time, especially vs the rest of the NFC North. But, against very good teams more often than not can't make the stops it needs to. Way too many 3rd down conversions, can't pressure the QB often enough, and has gaping hopes in the middle of the LB corp that just will not be filled by a franchise that seemingly doesn't value that position at all.

A Special Teams that continually is at the bottom of the league. That has ZERO ability to have any success returning the ball, that far too often gives up big returns at the most inopportune times, and makes enough mistakes every game that the best you can say about them is "Well, they haven't cost us a game yet". Until they do.

And an offense that is led by the best QB in the game and is so goddamned good that he single handedly is able to bail the team out more often than not. But, it's an offense that for the last 5 years has 1 talented WR, and a bunch of inconsistent guys that against very good defenses can't get open. And then they can't get open, it puts pressure on the OL. And that OL is generally up to the task, but when they aren't...

And a head coach that outsmarts himself. No idea why you're chasing points down 5. And I get, in the abstract, the idea of "get 3 here, force them to go 3 and out and win the game in regulation", but I mean with this D?

But at the end of the day for me - if the General Manager of this franchise has no desire to try and improve the team NOW and try to win NOW and try to take advantage of the window they have with AR, then there's no reason in the world for me to be bothered by the loss for more than 10 minutes. And, finally a hearty fuck you to Mark Murphy who cares more about saving money for his real estate deals than letting MLF hire the ST coach he wanted to.

It was absolutely clear where this team had issues after getting curbstomped by SF last year. ILB, WRs, DL. And, Gutekunst did zero to address these needs in any significant fashion. I guess you can say he got unlucky that Funchess opted out, but I mean, if that's your bold move... He spent 2 draft picks, including the 1st, to draft the 6th rated QB in the Mountain West. He drafted a 3rd string RB in the 2nd, a position that can be filled in later rounds seemingly every year. He drafted a 4th string TE that most had rated 2-3 rounds later in the 3rd.

Fire Pettine and Menega or don't. Do something in FA to upgrade the holes on this team or don't. Whatever. Being good enough and running a real estate business are the priorities of this franchise. For their sake, they better hope that Jordan Love can be "good enough"

Fans always look at the short term.

@R MaN posted:

Jaire with two picks and the offense going 3 and out on both of them.

I agree that was huge.  They also had both starting safeties out of the game at that point.

@vitaflo posted:

Didn’t hate the FG. You score you still need 2pt conversation and you give Brady 2 mins to get a field goal and then you still need to win OT if he doesn’t.

And the plan would have worked if the refs hadn’t decided to throw the first f’n PI of the entire  game when they hadn’t called the 20 ones before that. They let the guys play... until the game was in the line. Absolute BS.

Was a TD assured IF the obvious hold was not called?

@Goalline posted:

Fans always look at the short term.

Well, Gute's play for 3/4 years from now pays off with a championship, I'll be sure to come back and eat crow.

We get 3 INT against Brady and the offense has 2 turnovers and people want to fire the DC?  Ok...

@Goalline posted:

I had no issue with the call. We were really struggling at the goal line

Doesn't matter.  You need 8 to get a shot at the Super Bowl.  That's the bottom line.

@Pikes Peak posted:

Was a TD assured IF the obvious hold was not called?

Of course not. But driving the field for one score is probably less of an ask that a score, a 2pt conversion, a stop of Brady in the 2 min drill, and winning OT.

How many teams have fired coaches after making it to the NFCC games? How many of those coaches ran a top 10 unit? Pettine is back.

Pissing away a #1 seed at home won't look good on MLF's resume. After that Ram's game, I thought they were peaking at the right time.

Games like this make me realize how magical the 1996 season was.

If you consider some of the single worst coached and executed plays in Packers history I would say the Pettine/King single high is easily top 3.  Bostick onsides and 4th and 26 might be worse.  

The 2pt conversion, FG attempt, ref calls, none of it matters if Pettine KEEPS IT IN FRONT OF THEM. I mean, that’s his scheme right?  Don’t allow that to happen?  No help over the top?  After a goddamn time out?  Pettine should have been canned at halftime.

IDK, no other DC calls single high safety man-to-man in that situation .... other than Greg Williams & he was fired the next day.

@vitaflo posted:

Didn’t hate the FG. You score you still need 2pt conversation and you give Brady 2 mins to get a field goal and then you still need to win OT if he doesn’t.

This is my point too.  Converting a 4th and 8 doesn't get you the win.  Doesn't even get you to OT.  It gives you a chance to convert a 2pt conversion and then stop Brady from getting 35 yards for a game winning FG to then get to OT.  At which time you have a coin flip and likely STILL have to stop Brady.  That's a lot to happen. 

On the flip side, you kick a FG and you just need a 3 and out to get the ball back in Rodgers hands to win the game.  No 2 pt conversion.  No coin flip.  No OT.  Both options require you to stop Brady.  They didn't.  That was the bigger issue to me. 

You could say LeFleur was stupid to trust his defense and I'll give you that.  But the decision to kick a FG isn't as stupid as some are saying.  It's just different than we're used to. 

@NedFlanders posted:

Pissing away a #1 seed at home won't look good on MLF's resume. After that Ram's game, I thought they were peaking at the right time.

Games like this make me realize how magical the 1996 season was.

They did peak in the Rams game. That's what happens when you peak, you have nowhere to go but down, it's just a matter of how far down.

Peaking at the right time would be during the Super Bowl, not 2 games before it.

The 3 plays before the FG were troubling.  If one of those was executed properly...

@Goalline posted:

How many teams have fired coaches after making it to the NFCC games? How many of those coaches ran a top 10 unit? Pettine is back.

I'm not so sure my brother. Didn't he take a year off before when fired by the Browns?  He may just decide to take a break for a while and catch on with somebody else next year.  The stress has to be brutal.

@Grave Digger posted:

Hard to knock MLF in either situation honestly. With the 2 pt try you’re trying to even the score and you put the ball in Rodgers hands...something everyone is bitching about him not doing with the FG. On the flip side your QB has missed 3 throws in a row and the defense has definite momentum AND your own defense has picked Brady 3 times in his last 7 passes. So you’re riding your own defense with the idea that your D will get a stop and Rodgers will score 7 and win it. If you miss the 4th down or you don’t get the 2 pt conversion then you’re in the same situation anyway, get the gimme points instead of chasing 8 at the very end. Chasing 5 is better than 8.

I like the chances of Rodgers putting one in the end zone and getting the 2pt conversion a whole lot more than our D preventing Tom Brady from getting one simple 1st down with the SB on the line. You rode AR here, you ride him again and live or die with your best.

@ammo posted:

I'm not so sure my brother. Didn't he take a year off before when fired by the Browns?  He may just decide to take a break for a while and catch on with somebody else next year.  The stress has to be brutal.

😂😂 Thanks brother. That was good.

@Goalline posted:

How many teams have fired coaches after making it to the NFCC games? How many of those coaches ran a top 10 unit? Pettine is back.

This is the same thinking that led them to stick with Capers after getting his ass handed to him back to back in playoffs.

The FG thing is fair game for criticism because when has this defense ever come through and closed a game out for them?   And of course they didn’t come through because we have an overrated and overmatched DC and players like King and Sullivan and Summers that shit the bed.

The game turned on the TD before half.  It was a head shot and Packers never recovered.  

Well, that’s the reality of it. Pettine is back.

The Packers didn’t play a flawless game against the Rams either.  Dropped passes, breakdowns in pass coverage, shit special teams.   Only TB is better.  

@Tschmack posted:

If you consider some of the single worst coached and executed plays in Packers history I would say the Pettine/King single high is easily top 3.  Bostick onsides and 4th and 26 might be worse.  

It is really a damn shame.

No one will ever accuse the Packers defensive or special teams coaches of being anything better than mediocre (and often not even close to mediocre) over the past 10 years.

Dom Capers, Mike Pettine, Shawn Slocum, Ron Zook, and Shawn Mennenga.

Yuck.

Fuck that.  Pettine should be fired before the sun rises tomorrow.  He deserves nothing less.  It’s a results business and his brand sucks.  

@vitaflo posted:

Of course not. But driving the field for one score is probably less of an ask that a score, a 2pt conversion, a stop of Brady in the 2 min drill, and winning OT.

Yes, taking the "wise" conservative approach when a trip to Superbowl on the line makes complete sense.  You take the shot.

@emak posted:

I like the chances of Rodgers putting one in the end zone and getting the 2pt conversion a whole lot more than our D preventing Tom Brady from getting one simple 1st down with the SB on the line. You rode AR here, you ride him again and live or die with your best.

Rodgers had 6, count them, 6 chances of goal to go and didn't put it in the endzone. What makes you think the 7th would have been the charm.  He also had a previous chance on a 2 pt and didn't convert. What makes you think he would have been successful?   If i recall correctly he also failed to execute a 2 pointer against L A.

@Tschmack posted:

If you consider some of the single worst coached and executed plays in Packers history I would say the Pettine/King single high is easily top 3.  Bostick onsides and 4th and 26 might be worse.  

The 2pt conversion, FG attempt, ref calls, none of it matters if Pettine KEEPS IT IN FRONT OF THEM. I mean, that’s his scheme right?  Don’t allow that to happen?  No help over the top?  After a goddamn time out?  Pettine should have been canned at halftime.

This.  Everything else is debatable.  Nobody is arguing that we should leave Kevin king on an an island in a Hail Mary situation.  

Pettine has to go.  

@Henry posted:

Yes, taking the "wise" conservative approach when a trip to Superbowl on the line makes complete sense.  You take the shot.

If we lose we lose.😂

By the way, so glad we signed Tramon Williams and the OT from Indy.  Genius move to keep Sullivan and Wagner and Turner and King in there.

At least we all can enjoy the Superbowl without any stress.

@ammo posted:

Rodgers had 6, count them, 6 chances of goal to go and didn't put it in the endzone. What makes you think the 7th would have been the charm.  He also had a previous chance on a 2 pt and didn't convert. What makes you think he would have been successful?   If i recall correctly he also failed to execute a 2 pointer against L A.

Right on, brother.

I’ll trust Rodgers to convert a 3rd and 20 or 4th and 15 before I’ll ever trust this defense to get a 3 and out.

I mean, are you watching the same team?

@Goalline posted:

If we lose we lose.😂

Yeah but at least you take the approach that ties it up and then worry about your defense trying to hold.

One thing we know for sure....the field goal route didn't work.

3 INT in Brady’s previous 7 throws. 0/3 on previous 3 throws in redzone. I’m gonna lean on what working.

@Henry posted:

Yeah but at least you take the approach that ties it up and then worry about your defense trying to hold.

Yeah, I don’t see the controversy. It’s not like he passed on a sure thing.

Everyone knew coming into this game that they needed to pressure Brady. Yet, how many times did Pettine blitz, or bring more than 4? The one time Savage blitzed, it forced a bad play.  Brady was killing them on 3rd down and Pettine made no adjustments.

@ammo posted:

Rodgers had 6, count them, 6 chances of goal to go and didn't put it in the endzone. What makes you think the 7th would have been the charm.  He also had a previous chance on a 2 pt and didn't convert. What makes you think he would have been successful?   If i recall correctly he also failed to execute a 2 pointer against L A.

It doesn't matter.  That's the scenario that ties it up and gives you a chance at the Superbowl.  Even if the 2 pt conversion fails you're still in the scenario of stopping TB but at least this way you can WIN it with a FG instead if they do stop them.

All brake, then emergency brake.

Blitzing too much will get you killed. They needed to mix up coverages and blitz sporadically. The players made too many mistakes.

@Tschmack posted:

If you consider some of the single worst coached and executed plays in Packers history I would say the Pettine/King single high is easily top 3.  Bostick onsides and 4th and 26 might be worse.  

The 2pt conversion, FG attempt, ref calls, none of it matters if Pettine KEEPS IT IN FRONT OF THEM. I mean, that’s his scheme right?  Don’t allow that to happen?  No help over the top?  After a goddamn time out?  Pettine should have been canned at halftime.

That really was the play of the game.  That was a mistake so pathetic that it cannot be ignored easily.

I was OK with going for 2 because Mayo has been that guy all season, not going for it on 4th down seemed the opposite of what had worked all season. 

ESB's drop.  DA's drop in the EZ.  Our stud RB putting the ball on the turf twice, King ending the half shitting himself (the PI was bullshit, such fucking bullshit).  Still could have won this game if the offense was worth a shit in the 4th quarter. 

Missed Bak a lot

All the talk about kicking Pettine to the corner is fan knee jerk horseshit.  Pants the special teams guy first, send ABM to the curb second. 

Drafting Love was a mistake.