All this handwringing about MM pisses me off. He's not perfect by any means, but he's a damn good coach.
oldschool posted:Uh oh...sounds a little like a desperate dick-tater grabbing power when things start spinning out of control.
Generally speaking, this is a bad sign for the inner health of any organization. The irony is that it is a personal self indictment of Mike's own ability to develop and "manage" others.
I will be very interested to hear Aaron's comments and tone on this.
I've got all manner of disagree with this.
We all want Mike and Ted to step outside of been there done that and when one of them does its dictator desperation?
Bad sign of the inner health of any organization? Because refusing to admit personnel choices aren't working and standing pat while failing to achieve goals shows stability.
I really hope Sitton, Lang, and Bulaga pulled Eddie aside before he got out of town and told him he'd be well served to never disrespect their efforts again by showing up at 255 this summer. But it was Mike who got in front of everyone and put his face on Eddies future.
Mike has 4 years to win some Lombardis. He has to think he's the best guy to get it done at this point. It is his balls in the vice now.
I think Mike will straighten everything out, but if his confidence was so low in his staff to get the job done then he needs to find new staff. Perhaps he's pushing reset so he can get HIMSELF straightened out and get back to basics. I like that changes are being made and things are getting shaken up.
@Pike. Maybe. But it ain't common for a coach with 7 straight trips to the post season and a Lombardi to say he's going all in his way. He's giving a middle finger to job security by saying that starting next year, it really is all on him. If he screws up he's giving Ted the green light to broom him.
Admirable stuff
ChilliJon posted:oldschool posted:Uh oh...sounds a little like a desperate dick-tater grabbing power when things start spinning out of control.
Generally speaking, this is a bad sign for the inner health of any organization. The irony is that it is a personal self indictment of Mike's own ability to develop and "manage" others.
I will be very interested to hear Aaron's comments and tone on this.
I've got all manner of disagree with this.
We all want Mike and Ted to step outside of been there done that and when one of them does its dictator desperation?
Bad sign of the inner health of any organization? Because refusing to admit personnel choices aren't working and standing pat while failing to achieve goals shows stability.
I really hope Sitton, Lang, and Bulaga pulled Eddie aside before he got out of town and told him he'd be well served to never disrespect their efforts again by showing up at 255 this summer. But it was Mike who got in front of everyone and put his face on Eddies future.
Mike has 4 years to win some Lombardis. He has to think he's the best guy to get it done at this point. It is his balls in the vice now.
Well I'm sorry but respect is earned and then kept by consistency.
MM surprised everyone this past season with his decision to give up play calling...as I recall there were strong words from respected peers that a guy like MM NEVER gives up play calling. You just don't do that.
To in fact do that ...and now less than a year later to scrap the whole thing and go back to square one...well...it's a little unsettling from a leadership point of view.
You can spin it another way...but it's the elephant in the room.
It smells a little of desperation...and that's never good for a leader of men.
Time will tell.
"Well I'm sorry but respect is earned and then kept by consistency"
5 NFC North Titles. 7 straight playoff appearances. Super Bowl Champion.
Do that and you do what whatever the **** you think is best to win another. I'm on board.
But let's put consistency aside for a minute.....
Mike Tomlin has won 1 playoff game since Mike beat his ass with a broken team in 2010 yet Tomlin came out today that he's disappointed with this season even though he plays in the AEFF****INGC and could not beat a geriatric **** with nerve damage in a windstorm. And he's viewed as a good coach. And Tomlins one playoff win was a gift from a fumble, Burfict, and Pac Man.
Lets get some clarity. Mike McCarthy can coach.
DH13 posted:I would guess a good number. Good CBs are hard to find and there seems to have been a lot of them drafted in recent memory. But this is a deceiving stat. Does anybody think Rollins was playing better than Randall this year?
I do.
When all calling for MM to be fired can ID the next guy who will take over and do better, then we can take them seriously. The collection of coaching hires this year was seriously undewhelming--Dirk Koetter, Doug Pederson, etc?? Really?
So--the question isn't simply about MM, it is as much about who replaces him that will do better---and by "better", that means starting with a Super Bowl appearance in Year 1. 'Cause MM has already got the "get to the playoffs and NFC championship game" card checked off.
ChilliJon posted:"Well I'm sorry but respect is earned and then kept by consistency"
5 NFC North Titles. 7 straight playoff appearances. Super Bowl Champion.
Do that and you do what whatever the **** you think is best to win another. I'm on board.
But let's put consistency aside for a minute.....
Mike Tomlin has won 1 playoff game since Mike beat his ass with a broken team in 2010 yet Tomlin came out today that he's disappointed with this season even though he plays in the AEFF****INGC and could not beat a geriatric **** with nerve damage in a windstorm. And he's viewed as a good coach. And Tomlins one playoff win was a gift from a fumble, Burfict, and Pac Man.
Lets get some clarity. Mike McCarthy can coach.
I'm concerned about what happened this season but you make a good point. The proof is in the puddin and the puddin's been pretty damn good.
Playing it out with MM is our best hand. Not doubting that.
heyward posted:My concern would be MM focusing more on the offense in 2016 and the defense and special teams getting worse.
Agreed. It's a bit troubling simply because he's moving backwards. I do not trust Capers to do anything other than scheme and we already know a handful of position coaches are lacking without supervision. I think MM is essentially handcuffed to Capers at this point and it wouldn't be horrible if Capers actually coached.
I guess we'll see what happens. I think MM is a excellent coach but I'm wondering if there are too many leaks in the dike and not enough fingers.
What do you serve dick taters with? Rump roast?
Grave Digger posted:e Neal route? Meaning would he benefit from losing weight, improve his speed and quickness, and switch to OLB? He looked dominant at times at DE, but only at 5-tech...he wasn't nearly as effective sliding down to 3-tech. Much like Neal, I'm not sure his style is suited to constantly battle interior OL who can get under his pads and turn him. To me if he dropped down to 270/280, got rid of some fat, he could be really good coming off the edge. We might already have our replacement for Peppers on the roster.
Those two guys need to rotating LB to DL as needed less hand in the dirt. I absolutely agree you slim him down and he could cause problems. Basically taking two guys with a 300 pound frame and are relatively athletic, get them lean and send them running? That's going create some heat and protection issues in the right situations. Datone looked good when they swapped him around.
I'm thinking the DL/LB hybrid will be more prevalent on this defense because it's working.
Henry posted:What do you serve dick taters with? Rump roast?
Alex Marvez
@alexmarvez
Source tells @NFLonFOX that @packers have hired ex- #rams RBs coach Ben Sirmans for same position in Green Bay.
Henry posted:What do you serve dick taters with? Rump roast?
Geez I cue em up for you like a big matzah ball ...
Hellman's Devil Semen...of course.
CoPackFan posted:Alex Marvez
@alexmarvez
Source tells @NFLonFOX that @packers have hired ex- #rams RBs coach Ben Sirmans for same position in Green Bay.
Can he bring Gurley with him?
McGinn's season wrap-ups:
Commentary: http://www.jsonline.com/sports...523z1-366325731.html
Team report card: http://www.jsonline.com/sports...525z1-366332531.html
Player report cards (offense): http://www.jsonline.com/sports...526z1-366333791.html
Player report cards (defense): http://www.jsonline.com/sports...529z1-366332901.html
Player report cards (specialists): http://www.jsonline.com/sports...531z1-366334381.html
A moderator should make a new thread out of the McGinn articles.
The "Blame for underachieving season falls on Mike McCarthy, Ted Thompson" is merely stating the obvious but it is still one of the best pieces written about the Packers this season. McCarthy's reshuffling of the offensive staff was a miserable failure. Ted didn't do the position coaches any favors by standing pat with the bottom of the roster.
I disagree with these player grades:
Jeff Janis = C+ / Should have been a B or higher simply based on his ability to cover punts.
James Jones = C+ / Solid B IMO. Can't run anymore and was invisible in a couple games because of that. But he was a godsend for this offense...I can't imagine how much worse the passing game would have been if James had not been around.
Eddie Lacy = C / This should have been an F and an easy call at that.
B.J. Raji = B- / I'd say C. Agree totally that Raji was great the first month and a half but thought he was a below average player from that point on.
PackerJoe posted:The "Blame for underachieving season falls on Mike McCarthy, Ted Thompson" is merely stating the obvious but it is still one of the best pieces written about the Packers this season. McCarthy's reshuffling of the offensive staff was a miserable failure. Ted didn't do the position coaches any favors by standing pat with the bottom of the roster.
Yet GB took the 2 seed to OT on the road in the divisional round without their starting 3 WRs.
MM made some crushing mistakes in 15 then reacted too late. No question. But he also damned near pulled this season out of the ashes.
Doom and gloom Bob is really hard to take seriously anymore. He's the old guy yelling at society hoping someone listens. There is some truth in what he's saying. But trying to cut through all the sad bitter editorial doesn't make it worth the effort.
ChilliJon posted:MM made some crushing mistakes in 15 then reacted too late.
You said it best, McCarthy badly mismanaged the roster during the season (also mismanaged the coaching staff during the off-season) and didn't make the necessary corrections until it was too late.
Big bad Bob McGinn right on the money again...as usual.
It's easy to be right on the money now. Was Big bad Bob critical of these moves at the time?
Remember when Bob said the Packers could go 11-5 without Rodgers. His opinions mean about as much as any other reporter or talking head.
And he said it based on the depth of the roster Ted built and Mikes ability to coach through injuries. He then said he had faith in Senneca Wallace to step in and play well in that piece for the ages.
Throws the darts at a blank wall. Paint the dartboard afterwards.
Bob gives him a D-, I give him a C....what you say?
heyward posted:It's easy to be right on the money now. Was Big bad Bob critical of these moves at the time?
I think the point is what moves. Mc Ginn is as good as it gets and this piece is spot on.
A C is average, not horrible but a lot of room for improvement...to me that is an 8-8 record. Well when your team makes the playoffs then you have automatically done a better job than 20 other teams which is more than half the league. You're already above average. They won a playoff game, something that 24 other teams couldn't do, so his team is in the top 8. How can a top 8 team possibly be coached by a below average coach? That doesn't make sense. McCarthy deserves at least a B if not a B+...they didn't just stumble and fall in to the divisional round of the playoffs. It's the same argument as with games though, they didn't win with enough style.
heyward posted:It's easy to be right on the money now. Was Big bad Bob critical of these moves at the time?
Nope. Bob is rarely right in his predictions, but is the Queen of 20/20 hindsight. The haters that rant about the team during game threads will, of course, love Bob's take...I see chickenboy has already checked in.
I think he acquitted himself in the post season. They almost looked like a different team. But 2016 could be pivotal for him considering how much he has to correct.
McGinn pisses me off. He's a bed-wetting, pants-****ting, reactionary little bitch.
TT and MM: super bowl, 3 NFCCG appearances, 7 straight playoffs, young/talented roster....what a couple of dip****s.
"He's the old guy yelling at society hoping someone listens."
Hey! I resemble that remark. Dammit!
Ladarius Green is mildly intriguing.
I imagine San Diego is going to push hard to keep him with Gates being as old as dirt.
Good interview with jordy
Jordy Nelson - Green Bay Packers Wide Receiver => http://www.podtrac.com/pts/red...dM/dN/dO/1AMNO_3.mp3
Grave Digger posted:McCarthy deserves at least a B if not a B+...they didn't just stumble and fall in to the divisional round of the playoffs. It's the same argument as with games though, they didn't win with enough style.
Win with enough style? Made me laugh. I wonder how BM would grade Lombardi when in some games his team wasn't making big plays and were being outgained yardage wise, but had more points than the other team at the end of the game. The first SB winning coach to get an "F"?
Lombardi's game was a ball-control hammer, making no claims of McCarthy's high-flying aerial offense.
Sources with knowledge of the situation tell me Packers coach Vince Lombardi is fed up with Packers GM Vince Lombardi after the GM traded away the Packers All-Pro Center Jim Ringo.
MM did pull this team out of the ashes to contend at the end despite losing his top three receivers and a bunch of OL injuries, but his management moves help put the team into the fire. Clements couldn't call plays for a darn, MM's reluctance to to get Janis and Abby into the mix meant they had little game experience when it was needed, his not benching Lacy sooner for his weight, etc., almost brought down the team. He's a darn good coach and I don't want to lose him, but sometimes his management decisions are head-scratchers.
Note from Bill Barnwell's article today on Free Agents on the playoff teams.
WARNING - if anyone criticizing Mike McCarthy, even slightly, turns you into this guy please turn the channel and move along to another thread.
Green Bay Packers
2016 cap space: $32.1 million
Unrestricted free agents: LB Mike Neal, DT Letroy Guion, LB Nick Perry, DT B.J. Raji, CB Casey Hayward, RB James Starks
Packers coach Mike McCarthy is reportedly "fed up" with general manager Ted Thompson's penurious approach toward free agency, which is ironic for a coach whose conservative decision-making has cost the Packers each of the past two postseasons. Barring a rare foray into the market for a targeted player or two, Thompson should stay the course again this year, retaining several of the longtime Packers above while continuing to build through the draft. Thompson manages his roster as well as anybody in football, McCarthy's whims be damned.
Thompson's cap sheet is pristine, which leaves him without many bad deals to prune. His quickest route to extra cap space would be releasing 36-year-old outside linebacker Julius Peppers, a move that would turn his $10.5 million cap charge into a $2.5 million hit on Green Bay's cap, saving $8 million. Unless Thompson breaks the bank by re-signing starting guards Josh Sitton and T.J. Lang (each in the final year of their respective deals) to mammoth extensions, though, the Packers won't need the cap room that would come with cutting Peppers.