+/- Packers Vikings

@vitaflo posted:

And who is that QB going to throw to?  Love hit multiple guys right in the hands and they couldn't catch the damn ball.  Not excusing Love, but a new QB isn't going to solve much of anything.  We're not a QB away right now.

Who's claiming that? The point is if GB gets to a point where they are in position to take a QB in the top 5 in very good QB class, and Love doesn't improve and the decision making and inaccuracies continue for the next 10 weeks, there is no way the Packers doesn't take one of these QB's.

- Undisciplined (poorly coached) once again.  See zero improvement week to week here.  Every week looks like another step back.

+ Closer to making a Joe Alt pick a reality.

- Jaire.  Pretty well schooled by the rook

+ Despite the missed kick, I think Carlson and Whelan have performed pretty well.  It'll be interesting to see how they look as winter approaches.

-/+ hard to say what they have with Love.  Cut the drops and penalties in half and he probably looks somewhat competent.

- Dingle Barry should compare and contrast his defense to a Brian Flores run defense.  I would suspect the Flores defense results in 90% more contested plays.  DB is a fucking joke.  3rd and 8 or nine and you have your defenders playing 3 yards beyond the sticks.  Let your players play you no talent ass clown.

@Chongo posted:

Will be interesting to see how he pivots since most of the off-season he spent sucking off MLF and Love and how much better they were going to be.

Peter King is about as insightful regarding the Pack from a national standpoint as 10-win Tommy Silverstein is on a local level.

It’s not that Myers missed this. It’s that he went the wrong direction. Momentum works both ways, #packers struggling pic.twitter.com/Vp524FJYdP

— Michael Wahle (@MikeWahle68) October 29, 2023

@JimBobDuggar posted:

-/+ hard to say what they have with Love.  Cut the drops and penalties in half and he probably looks somewhat competent.

This

Didn't watch the game (listened to Wayne and Larry), but Love had 24 completions and 17 incompletions.

How many of the 24 completions were great catches, contested catches, or "low %" completions? How many of the 17 incompletions were drops?

@Iowacheese posted:

You have interesting hate.

I grew up listening to Tarkenton with his high pitched voice call signals for the Giants every week. Kark reminds me of Brady calling signals

@packerboi posted:

Who's claiming that? The point is if GB gets to a point where they are in position to take a QB in the top 5 in very good QB class, and Love doesn't improve and the decision making and inaccuracies continue for the next 10 weeks, there is no way the Packers doesn't take one of these QB's.

Have you met our front office?  To draft one of the top QB's means you've given up on 4 years of building the Love experiment.  So you're gonna pay him $8m to be a backup?  That would make him the highest paid backup in the league.  But you also can't cut him cuz he'll also count almost $8m against the cap.

The Packers have structured his contract to give him two years with basically no outs (besides a trade).  Given how stubborn Gute seems to be, I actually think if they are in the top 3 picks they won't take a QB.

@vitaflo posted:

Given how stubborn Gute seems to be, I actually think if they are in the top 3 picks they won't take a QB.

I hope they have a shot at a potential blue-chip o-lineman (Alt, Fashanu, Latham, etc.).

@vitaflo posted:

Have you met our front office?  To draft one of the top QB's means you've given up on 4 years of building the Love experiment.  So you're gonna pay him $8m to be a backup?  That would make him the highest paid backup in the league.  But you also can't cut him cuz he'll also count almost $8m against the cap.

The Packers have structured his contract to give him two years with basically no outs (besides a trade).  Given how stubborn Gute seems to be, I actually think if they are in the top 3 picks they won't take a QB.

For the record, I HOPE Love succeeds. I really do. And no question his WR's dropping 6 passes today is insane. But what Love makes in 2024 has nothing to do with taking a top flight QB in the top 5 IF Love doesn't improve in the next 10 weeks and he's showing he's not the guy.

It's the most important position in the game in a rare deep class of QB talent. Gute can't ignore that if you are picking that high. And if they do take a QB in round 1, I would assume a new HC and staff goes with it.

@JimBobDuggar posted:

I hope they have a shot at a potential blue-chip o-lineman (Alt, Fashanu, Latham, etc.).

Marvin Harrison Jr. will make an QB look a lot better.

@DH13 posted:

That's going to be a really scary position for this front office to be in.  If Love doesn't completely crater and they end up with a shot at drafting one of the top 3 QB's, I really fear that they pass and stick with Love.  And the real sticker is the next regime post-MM would almost certainly pick their own QB.

I don’t want a QB in the top 3.   Take Harrison Jr or trade back.   This roster is not ready to support a young QB.    I’d wait and build the OL some before looking for the long term answer at QB.

You just don't take a WR that high

LT, Pass Rusher, QB or shutdown CB in top 5

Jones is the best offensive player on the field for the packers but he is not a game changing player. There are several backup running backs arpind the league that are better than jones. Move him at the deadline. Time to blow the whole thing up.

@MichiganPacker posted:

Marvin Harrison Jr. will make an QB look a lot better.

I love Harrison but, if they're in a position to draft him, I hope they trade down and look for blue chip o-lineman. 

@lovepack posted:

We will see Clifford this season.  One way or another.  He may take the job and keep it.

Does he throw a magic ball that makes receivers catch it? Compete for it? Not drop it? Run the proper routes?

MLF needs to call out the receiving corps[e] in public.

Meant to post this here and somehow posted it in an older thread. I guess I have dropsies like our receivers:

Funny thing is, I wasn't pissed off watching the game because my expectations at this point are very low. This is a team full of mediocre talent and poor draft selections and a coaching staff that even on it's best day would be hard pressed to rise to the level of mediocre. I actually got more pissed switching over to the Jets Giants game just in time to see Brian Daboll pass up a 4th and one opportunity and a chance to ice the game,  only to have Graham Gano miss a chip shot field goal. Then, of course, Zach Fuckin' Wilson moves the Jets about 55 yards in less than 25 seconds to set up a fg to tie it up with :01 left.  Fuck!!

@BrainDed posted:

I don’t want a QB in the top 3.   Take Harrison Jr or trade back.   This roster is not ready to support a young QB.    I’d wait and build the OL some before looking for the long term answer at QB.

I don't think anyone wants to take a QB that high, but you shouldn't pass on a potential franchise QB if one is there.

And if one is, not only do you take him, but you spend a great deal of draft capital to support him. The defense has enough high picks for now. Get a reliable receiver and some pedigree'd O-linemen in front of him.

@PackLandVA posted:

So if the WRs are making catches that are hitting them in their hands, is Love still regressing???

The receiving corp needs to make some plays., The O-line needs to block better in the passing and running game.  Dillon needs to power thru some arm tackles. And Aaron Jones needs to get MORE FUCKING TOUCHES!!!!!

That's a hard question to answer with what is happening around him. I don't think anybody was expecting Love to carry the team but that appears to be the type of QB the Packers need. The game plans were supposed to be built around Jones and the running game. He had 7 carries today. Nobody is having a good season on either side of the ball.

@BrainDed posted:

I don’t want a QB in the top 3.   Take Harrison Jr or trade back.   This roster is not ready to support a young QB.    I’d wait and build the OL some before looking for the long term answer at QB.

The Packers can't pass on a franchise QB because those opportunities don't come along often. After 30 years of having 2 QBs we should all know the importance of stability at the position. You just hope it turns out like Dallas did with Aikman. He survived a couple real rough seasons but they built an OL around him.

+++Slaton had a solid day on the DL. Colby Wooden played well. We stopped their run game, for the most part.

----Another horrible start for our offense. Too many penalties. Rookies making rookie mistakes. Rasheed Walker had a rough day. Why didn't Nijman start at LT? This officiating crew was flag happy. Too many dropped passes by our receivers. Too many inaccurate throws by Love.  He went for the TD when the first down was available, at least once. We let them convert on almost every 3rd down. The vikings are nothing special. Yet, they beat us, so that should tell you how bad we are. Our OL needs help. We didn't have a first down until around half time. Our coaches need to wake up. Soft D again, by Barry and MLF's offense needs a redo. Also, our STs coverage unit stunk it up.

I'm not ready to give up on this team and Love in particular, but that day may come, sooner than expected.

@FLPACKER posted:

Andrew Brandt

@AndrewBrandt

Packers fans: I know it's frustrating, but it's a growing year. $60 million of dead Cap. $28 million of injured Cap. Only one skill player (Aaron Jones) not on a rookie contract. Most inexpensive offense in NFL. And a new QB. Hard to be patient as fans but that's necessary now.

4:43 PM · Oct 29, 2023

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277K

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This is fine if they are actually growing but it looks like Doubs is regressing and Watson has been exposed. The OL loses Bakh and falls completely apart. A lack of motivation and confusion on both sides of the ball points at the coaching staff. None of that is affected by dead money.

+ Denver wins

@vitaflo posted:

There is no rookie that would have made a difference in 2020, we need to stop with this horrible take.  3 years later though, totally agree.

Tee Higgins, drafted #33 in 2020.

2020 stats: 67 catches, 908 yards, 6 TD.

@Herschel posted:

I don't think anyone wants to take a QB that high, but you shouldn't pass on a potential franchise QB if one is there.

And if one is, not only do you take him, but you spend a great deal of draft capital to support him. The defense has enough high picks for now. Get a reliable receiver and some pedigree'd O-linemen in front of him.

Just don't trade up for one and wind up with Trubisky.

@mrtundra posted:

I'm not ready to give up on this team and Love in particular, but that day may come, sooner than expected.

I don't think there's much doubt the Packers will draft a franchise QB if they are in that position especially if things don't improve. I'm sure that's an option they left themselves by only signing Love through next season.

@Fedya posted:

Just don't trade up for one and wind up with Trubisky.

Did he re-enter the draft? Fool me once?

Sucks for the Vikings - they win but Cousins has Achilles injury.  They were likely a shoe in for the playoffs.  

i get the whole “be patient” take. but i cannot tolerate the mistakes and poor preparation. that’s on the coaching staff

@lambeausouth posted:

Tee Higgins, drafted #33 in 2020.

2020 stats: 67 catches, 908 yards, 6 TD.

AR would have been, like, who he/Tee?

@Fedya posted:

Just don't trade up for one and wind up with Trubisky.

The way our team looks right now, this absolutely would be the greatest fear.  So far Gutekunst has not had the magic touch in evaluating QBs.  Started by trading for DeShone Kizer then drafted Love. Yikes!!!

It will be interesting to see how the QBs in the 2024 draft end up doing.  Drake Maye has the look of a guy who could be really good.  But he comes from the same place that produced Trubisky.  He’s a completely different player of course, but it does make you wonder if that system makes guys look better than they really are.

Michael Penix sort of looks like the second coming of Tua Tagoviloa, but the guy has a scary injury history with 2 season ending injuries in his first 3 seasons.

Caleb Williams looks like a “sure thing” but against Notre Dame a couple weeks ago he was surprisingly poor.

It sucks to have to back to the well again for another QB, but the more you watch Love, the more it looks like the Pack made a mistake in evaluation here.

@FLPACKER posted:

Andrew Brandt

@AndrewBrandt

Packers fans: I know it's frustrating, but it's a growing year. $60 million of dead Cap. $28 million of injured Cap. Only one skill player (Aaron Jones) not on a rookie contract. Most inexpensive offense in NFL. And a new QB. Hard to be patient as fans but that's necessary now.

4:43 PM · Oct 29, 2023

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277K

Views

Who do we see growing in this growing year?   All the OL have take a step back.    Watson, hell no.   Doubs, Reed and Musgrave are the only offensive players I could say are growing.

@Jessie Clark posted:

i get the whole “be patient” take. but i cannot tolerate the mistakes and poor preparation. that’s on the coaching staff

I'd venture that 90% of the bullshit we've seen this year was on display a year ago as well. The other 10% relates directly to rookies and our truly astounding way of inventing new mistakes to commit on a weekly basis. They went 8-9 with the hof qb a year ago and shit the bed at home to wave goodbye to the postseason. This is just further ineptitude now that 12 is gone.

The idea of giving up on Love at this point has reached ridiculous levels after seven weeks. But now my fear is the damage his head coach will subject him to both physically and mentally, not to mention the rest of such a young roster. This staff simply cannot coach football, no matter how many times we see the same script repeated and the consistent penalties and mistakes happening over and over again. They just insist on expecting something to change while refusing to shake things up.

Failure is bred the same as success and this team has been allowed to sink to levels of mediocre that can't be salvaged. It's unfortunate, because while I'm not giving up on the kid, his future is probably tied to the current iteration of mgmt and coaching staff, and the only way he could possibly succeed is by scrapping the system and replacing the coaches. They've done not one thing to make the situation easier for the guy they expect to lead this team.

@fightphoe93 posted:

It sucks to have to back to the well again for another QB, but the more you watch Love, the more it looks like the Pack made a mistake in evaluation here.

This is why MLF should have had the balls to play Love last year with a more veteran team. It would have been a more fair evaluation of Love. This current unit has no playmakers and that's usually the difference between teams, a few guys that make a difference. Not only Love doesn't have playmakers, he has a bunch of players screwing up around him.

The first series was a perfect example. 3rd and 6, a lineman gets beat but Love makes a great play avoiding the sack, throws a prayer to Doubs for a 20 yard gain. But there is a penalty and now the Packers are 3rd and 16 instead of near midfield.

Love has been inaccurate but he's not getting any help. Many key drops today including a biggie by Wicks inside the 5 when the Packers were still in the game

@packerboi posted:

For the record, I HOPE Love succeeds. I really do. And no question his WR's dropping 6 passes today is insane. But what Love makes in 2024 has nothing to do with taking a top flight QB in the top 5 IF Love doesn't improve in the next 10 weeks and he's showing he's not the guy.

It's the most important position in the game in a rare deep class of QB talent. Gute can't ignore that if you are picking that high. And if they do take a QB in round 1, I would assume a new HC and staff goes with it.

All the more reason to play Clifford some.   We may not need to draft a QB high if Clifford is "the guy."   Hell our Brock Purdy or even better might be sitting on the bench. 

You play Love and give him every chance you can to improve this season.   We have too much invested not to give him a full season.  

Do I think he will show improvement?  No.

@ammo posted:

All the more reason to play Clifford some.   We may not need to draft a QB high if Clifford is "the guy."   Hell our Brock Purdy or even better might be sitting on the bench.

Clifford appears fearless and teammates pick up on that but I don't think you pass on a franchise QB even if Love plays better. Love really can't prove he has a high enough ceiling to pass on a franchise QB in the next 10 games.

This whole thing could get blown up if this team continues to play like this, Murphy, Gute, and the entire coaching staff. Then they can rebuild from the top down. New GM gets his HC and QB.

I know its early but Musgrave and LVN dont look like anything other than JAGs

and disappointed in Watson. maybe he's hurt but is not the aggressive playmaker we need

@BrainDed posted:

You play Love and give him every chance you can to improve this season.   We have too much invested not to give him a full season.  

Do I think he will show improvement?  No.

I don't think there's another choice this season. But they can't pass on a franchise QB if they get a shot. They might not get that chance again. The Packers drafting between 20-25 has always denied them a blue chip player. If they draft Harrison and win 8-9 games next season then what do they do at QB? Make a long term commitment to Love? Make a Hadl trade? If this type of play continues I'd blow the whole thing up after the season.