So what's your solution for replacing a pro-bowl safety?
+Cobb
+CMIII
+Masthay
+Playing poorly now means they'll play their best at the end of the season, right?
-AR looked like a pretty average QB
-The OL was terrible in run blocking, and maybe average in pass protection.
-The receivers didn't get much separation and dropped a few passes.
-The offense couldn't pick up the corner blitzes at all.
-The run defense was poor, especially DJ Smith. Wow, did not expect him to play this poorly in filling in for Bishop.
-Secondary covered like they did all of last year. Bush needs to be benched for House/Hayward. I can't imagine things could be any worse out there with the young guys playing over Bush. He's just not an NFL CB.
I haven't seen much MM bashing, which is good because this one was on the players. There is only so much the coaches can do to prepare a team and the Packers just did not execute.
+CMIII
+Masthay
+Playing poorly now means they'll play their best at the end of the season, right?
-AR looked like a pretty average QB
-The OL was terrible in run blocking, and maybe average in pass protection.
-The receivers didn't get much separation and dropped a few passes.
-The offense couldn't pick up the corner blitzes at all.
-The run defense was poor, especially DJ Smith. Wow, did not expect him to play this poorly in filling in for Bishop.
-Secondary covered like they did all of last year. Bush needs to be benched for House/Hayward. I can't imagine things could be any worse out there with the young guys playing over Bush. He's just not an NFL CB.
I haven't seen much MM bashing, which is good because this one was on the players. There is only so much the coaches can do to prepare a team and the Packers just did not execute.
It is understood that you can't immediately replace the talent. But a full year should give you enough time to have a QB out there that understands the scheme and doesn't blow assignments. There is more than enough talent on that side of the ball but just like last season, there seems to be blown assignments all over the place.
The Worthy attitude of taking plays off has now spread to the entire defense. 
quote:Time to stop getting greedy & take what the defense gives you.
Yup. The Packers' first TD drive featured moving Cobb into the backfield, and with that and the associated playcalling, GB moved the ball for the first time all day.
But then for the rest of the second quarter and most of the third, MM drops that scheme and instead goes with 3 wides or a two back set. Wasn't until they fell behind by more than two scores before we saw Cobb back in the backfield and a spread formation.
MM (and too many coaches) just forget the old axiom "Run it until they stop it!" Rather they have to fiddle with all courses on the menu. F*** that, just keep doing what works dammit!
C-boy, Boris is right on target. Collins' absence is showing what a rare talent he was. Not just physically but as the lynchpin in the secondary. Made it much easier for Wood to freelance and kept everybody on the same page. I agree that the communication issues should have been corrected by now but don't assume they could easily fill the void left by Nick's injury. He was an exceptional player, covered a lot of holes, especially for Capers' pressure schemes and for Woodson's intuitive style of chance-taking.
quote:Originally posted by Tuna:
The Worthy attitude of taking plays off has now spread to the entire defense.
So the defense had a TARDIS last year and zipped ahead to get it early?
quote:Originally posted by cuqui: but don't assume they could easily fill the void left by Nick's injury.
Where did I say that? To repeat. Not easy to replace the talent. Shouldn't be hard after one year to have assignment-sure players on the field.
Oye...
quote:
"We beat ourselves. They really didn't beat us," cornerback Jarrett Bush said after the game, via the Green Bay Press-Gazette. "We just have to hunker down and make sure we're gap sound and get on the same page. Obviously, small things being miscommunicated on the field become big things, so they exploited us and that's what happened."
quote:Originally posted by FreeSafety:
- MM the "offensive genius" - TT has given him AR12, a solid OLine, Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, Jones, Driver, Finley, DJ Williams, Alex Green and Benson, NO TEAM HAS MORE WEAPONS, 7 points outside of the almost garbage time Jones TD is not enough. Not even the SF defense should be able to shutdown all the playmakers TT has put on this roster.
I was done with this theme 2 years ago. The players are vastly overrated by fans. The players. The players need to play. Alex Green and Benson? Really? These are true weapons @ RB? No. No, they're not. SF shut us down precisely because we're not as good on offense as some think.
I love Thompson, but this idea that McCarthy is just wasting all these unbelievable weapons just is not true.
quote:The players are vastly overrated by fans.
quote:Originally posted by Brak:quote:Originally posted by FreeSafety:
- MM the "offensive genius" - TT has given him AR12, a solid OLine, Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, Jones, Driver, Finley, DJ Williams, Alex Green and Benson, NO TEAM HAS MORE WEAPONS, 7 points outside of the almost garbage time Jones TD is not enough. Not even the SF defense should be able to shutdown all the playmakers TT has put on this roster.
I was done with this theme 2 years ago. The players are vastly overrated by fans. The players. The players need to play. Alex Green and Benson? Really? These are true weapons @ RB? No. No, they're not. SF shut us down precisely because we're not as good on offense as some think.
I love Thompson, but this idea that McCarthy is just wasting all these unbelievable weapons just is not true.
This.
quote:Originally posted by Brak:
I was done with this theme 2 years ago. The players are vastly overrated by fans. The players. The players need to play. Alex Green and Benson? Really? These are true weapons @ RB? No. No, they're not. SF shut us down precisely because we're not as good on offense as some think.
I love Thompson, but this idea that McCarthy is just wasting all these unbelievable weapons just is not true.
I do think at the WR/TE position they are loaded. That said, 3 teams have successfully used a blueprint against the Pack's offense in the past 7 games. If a somewhat talented defense keeps a lot of DBs/LBs back in coverage and is able to get pressure with Rodgers with 4 guys or an uncovered 5th guy, it makes Rodgers look very very ordinary.
There aren't many defenses in the league talented enough to make that happen, but the bad news is, some of those defenses the Pack will see if they make the playoffs.
I saw gals with Tshirts carrying that same msg at the game.
Thinkin' of changing my name...
Thinkin' of changing my name...
quote:Originally posted by fightphoe93:
3 teams have successfully used a blueprint against the Pack's offense in the past 7 games.
I think its actually 3 of the last 4 that mattered. Forget the Detroit game where Flynn put up Techmobowl numbers. Rodgers and Jennings did not even play, and there was nothing really on the line for wither team except seeding for the Lions.
2011 week 15 lost to KC, week 16 beat an injury riddle Bears team, week 17 meaningless game against Detroit. Then blown out against the Giants.
Football, as much or more than any other sport, is a game of confidence. The more confident team usually performs better and wins. The Packers seem to be doubting themselves lately.
quote:Originally posted by Brak:quote:Originally posted by FreeSafety:
- MM the "offensive genius" - TT has given him AR12, a solid OLine, Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, Jones, Driver, Finley, DJ Williams, Alex Green and Benson, NO TEAM HAS MORE WEAPONS, 7 points outside of the almost garbage time Jones TD is not enough. Not even the SF defense should be able to shutdown all the playmakers TT has put on this roster.
I was done with this theme 2 years ago. The players are vastly overrated by fans. The players. The players need to play.
Rong.
The Packers players are highly regarded by more than just rube Packer fans. AR is the NFL MVP and voted best player in the NFL by his peers. Jennings and Nelson are both in the top 100 NFL players as chosen by their peers.
Many annalists picked the Packers as either the best team in the NFL or picked them to win the SB.
I will agree that we fans vastly overrate Packer players at times, especially towards the bottom half of the roster, but to try and argue that the starting offensive players available to MM isn't the best in the NFL is a tough stance to take IMO.
quote:Originally posted by Brak:
Alex Green and Benson? Really? These are true weapons @ RB? No. No, they're not. SF shut us down precisely because we're not as good on offense as some think.
What? Benson is not a true weapon at RB?
I consider TT adding a vet RB with 3 consecutive 1000 yard seasons to be a GIFT to MM. No way you can argue that was not a definite upgrade and another valuable tool added to this offense.Green is unproven for sure, I'll give you that he may not be a legit NFL weapon, we just don't know yet. I think he very well could be. Picking out those two players as a counter to my argument is a bit of a strawman though. Even without Benson and Green, my point remains.
I realize that you are strongly in MM's corner and have been for years, but there is no way I am going to believe there are many NFL HCs that wouldn't trade their offensive rosters for GB's.
And I didn't even mention John Kuhn.
quote:I love Thompson, but this idea that McCarthy is just wasting all these unbelievable weapons just is not true.
I don't think MM is completely wasting these players, obviously he is not, they have shown they can be dominant on offense at times.
Actually when you are drafting 30th every round it is a big deal Losing an All Pro is tough.
quote:Originally posted by chickenboy:quote:Originally posted by Boris:
I said this before. People don't realize what a QB Nick Collins was in our defense. They don't have that right now but I can see Burnett developing into the role. It takes time.
I said this in another thread. Collins got hurt on September 18 LAST year. Almost a full calendar year. No excuse.
quote:I saw gals with Tshirts carrying that same msg at the game.Thinkin' of changing my name...
You'll have to grow your hair out too.
(On the bright side, that photo shows that women are just as shallow as we guys can be.
)
For almost all of Mike's time in Green Bay, the offensive line has been a finesse unit that cannot physically dominate a defense. In the past, he didn't have the right players to move bodies (Clifton was a poor run blocker, Colledge was as soft as they come). They have the size and speed up front to move guys, the coaches just need to figure out how they can tweak the scheme to start getting push up front. Sitton, Lang and Saturday are also capable of being nasty, dunno really about the tackles (maybe they can too). This isn't a case of not having the horses to get the job done, it is purely a problem of scheme and philosophy that can be corrected.
quote:Originally posted by Badgeman:
It seems to me that there is a pattern now for playing AR12 and the offense. Rush 4, play safeties in a deep cover 2, try to contain Rodgers in the pocket. With no viable run game, the LBs and safeties can play pass all day long. We can all see, the semi-rollout and throw deep has not been there for several games now. The safeties just sit back there and wait for Jennings or Nelson. The Bears do it, KC did it last December, the Giants do it, SF did it today,and we'll see it again Thursday night. Time for MM to adjust. The use of Cobb is a good start, but it sure would be nice to see a run game again. It was the difference in the game today and it was the difference last January against the G-men.
Just one fan's opinions . . . agree or disagree.
Agree.
quote:This isn't a case of not having the horses to get the job done, it is purely a problem of scheme and philosophy that can be corrected.
What would that scheme be? Send the answer to McCarthy and Campen!
(I'm partly yanking your chain with that question, but I also don't understand the finer points of OL and DL play. There may well be a relevant answer to that question.)
The whole offensive philosophy is based on the passing game and either getting the ball out quickly or getting Rodgers out of the pocket to create time. The soft, passive style of play they put out week after week plays right into the hands of teams like the 49ers. Mike needs to create an attitude of attacking DL, rather than just creating time. I'm not a Shermam fan, but his OL attacked the defense, they were not simply trying to hold on for certain situations to open downfield. In short, they need to be the type of unit that will risk getting personal fouls if the trade off is averaging north of 3.5 YPC.quote:Originally posted by Fedya:quote:This isn't a case of not having the horses to get the job done, it is purely a problem of scheme and philosophy that can be corrected.
What would that scheme be? Send the answer to McCarthy and Campen!
(I'm partly yanking your chain with that question, but I also don't understand the finer points of OL and DL play. There may well be a relevant answer to that question.)
The SF coaches are getting praise today for finding a way to get Crabtree matched up against Perry several times yesterday. Some of his bigger plays came against Perry's coverage.
Dallas had success by getting Ogletree (who?) matched up against one of the Giants backup CBs.
No coach should have an easier time getting these kinds of matchups than Mike McCarthy. When James Jones and Cobb are your 3rd and 4th WRs, Finley draws safety coverage...etc...
Dallas had success by getting Ogletree (who?) matched up against one of the Giants backup CBs.
No coach should have an easier time getting these kinds of matchups than Mike McCarthy. When James Jones and Cobb are your 3rd and 4th WRs, Finley draws safety coverage...etc...
quote:Originally posted by FreeSafety:
What? Benson is not a true weapon at RB?
He's not much of a weapon, even if he is an upgrade. Lets use that little metric so many were gaga over when discussing Marshawn Lynch: YPC. The minimum average for a starting NFL back is 4 ypc. Benson hasn't reached that benchmark since 2009 (4.2, 3.5, 3.9) and has been lower than Ryan Grant (4.4, 5.6*, 4.2) over that span. He's also never been much of a receiver, topping out at 28 catches in 2010.
And this being Cincinnati's "workhorse" back, not the committee set up we see with many teams. He was down 50 carries last year, dropping him below the 300 mark for the first time sonce 2008, yet still had five fumbles (7 in 2010 with 50 more carries) and always the reutation for being a plodder and weak in pass protection.
He also lacks explosiveness. He had only four runs of over 20 yeards last season, up from only two in 2010.
And he's an older back. Cincinnati just let him walk and signed a plodder to replace him in BenJarvis Green-Ellis. (4.4, 4.4, 3.7)
So how much of a top-notch weapon is he?
The difference is that Vic Fangio has legit #3 and #4 CBs to cover the Packers WRs. Plus they have Safetys that knew what they were doing. When Jarrett Bush is your #2 and Sam Shields is your #3 and you have Safetys who don't know what they're doing, it makes things difficult for a DC. I'd rather see Casey Hayward in the game and let him take his lumps as a rookie, same for McMillan.
Right, GD. Would love to see what McCarthy and the offense would do against our defense. There are quite a few defenses out there with the horses to get good matchups against the Packers offense.
I'll add that McCarthy loves to talk a good fight when it comes to not abandoning the running game, but it is something which he only puts into practice on the field very rarely. Even if you're averaging a piss poor 2 YPC, 9 attempts is not a "commitment" by any stretch of the imagination.
quote:No coach should have an easier time getting these kinds of matchups than Mike McCarthy. When James Jones and Cobb are your 3rd and 4th WRs, Finley draws safety coverage...etc...
Agree FS.
Read today that Donald Driver was in just 3 offensive series and all towards the end of the game. MM's plan is to get James Jones and Cobb much more heavily involved in the game plan. As much as I like DD, have zero problems with that. You gotta go with the younger, speedier players. Im sure at some point well see Driver but against these defenses including this week DD may be no where to be found.
McCarthy might be committed to the run game, but it appears the O-line is disinterested.
The offense wont play a defense as good as they played yesterday the rest of the year. They will be fine.
The defense on the other hand, looks terrible again. Hopefully the young guys can grow-up quickly.
The offense wont play a defense as good as they played yesterday the rest of the year. They will be fine.
The defense on the other hand, looks terrible again. Hopefully the young guys can grow-up quickly.
quote:Originally posted by Brak: There are quite a few defenses out there with the horses to get good matchups against the Packers offense.
Disagree with the quite a few part.
Quite a few NFL defense can consistently cover the Packer's top 4 WR's and Finley and stop AR from scrambling for 1st downs?
What part of the Packers offensive roster needs to be upgraded so that quite a few NFL defense can't match up well against it?
oline was uninspired yesterday, to say the least.
It's only one game for each team, but apparently tackling drills done by one team appear to be making a difference.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--bucs-get-in-cam-newton-s-face-on-frustrating-day-for-panthers-quarterback-.html
"The Bucs got under Cam Newton's skin all day Sunday, holding him to one touchdown pass and, more important, only four yards total rushing. Those four yards were actually the length of the run Foster stopped on that key play.
Not today, indeed.
Newton, last season's Rookie of the Year in a runaway, had more than 300 yards passing, but it's the running that gets him in rhythm and it's the running the Bucs were intent on stopping.
That they did, to stunning effect, as a man who torched the Bucs for eight touchdowns (four of them on the ground) in two games last season could lead his team to only 10 net yards rushing and one rushing first down. Panthers coach Ron Rivera, who went wide-eyed when talking about the Bucs' defense, summed it up in two words when he called his star quarterback's performance "Unlike Cam."
How unlike Cam? When asked how the Bucs slowed Newton down, the normally verbose receiver Steve Smith said, "I'm not really sure exactly."
Well, it started and ended with those tireless tackling circuit runs by Schiano (and defensive coordinator Bill Sheridan), who was coaching his first pro team in Sunday's game. Some drills were done regardless of the opponent. Others were tailored to Newton. Call it fundamental football, but raise your hand if you thought the back-to-school approach the former Rutgers head coach took with the Bucs would alienate a bunch of professionals. Apparently not, as the home team put on a smash-mouth show all afternoon."
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--bucs-get-in-cam-newton-s-face-on-frustrating-day-for-panthers-quarterback-.html
"The Bucs got under Cam Newton's skin all day Sunday, holding him to one touchdown pass and, more important, only four yards total rushing. Those four yards were actually the length of the run Foster stopped on that key play.
Not today, indeed.
Newton, last season's Rookie of the Year in a runaway, had more than 300 yards passing, but it's the running that gets him in rhythm and it's the running the Bucs were intent on stopping.
That they did, to stunning effect, as a man who torched the Bucs for eight touchdowns (four of them on the ground) in two games last season could lead his team to only 10 net yards rushing and one rushing first down. Panthers coach Ron Rivera, who went wide-eyed when talking about the Bucs' defense, summed it up in two words when he called his star quarterback's performance "Unlike Cam."
How unlike Cam? When asked how the Bucs slowed Newton down, the normally verbose receiver Steve Smith said, "I'm not really sure exactly."
Well, it started and ended with those tireless tackling circuit runs by Schiano (and defensive coordinator Bill Sheridan), who was coaching his first pro team in Sunday's game. Some drills were done regardless of the opponent. Others were tailored to Newton. Call it fundamental football, but raise your hand if you thought the back-to-school approach the former Rutgers head coach took with the Bucs would alienate a bunch of professionals. Apparently not, as the home team put on a smash-mouth show all afternoon."
Positives
Cobb and how he was used.
Sitton looks like he is back to 2010 form.
Clay Mathews
Negatives
Communication in the secondary.. Guys running free all day.
3rd and 1 throw a 70 yard pass.. We are not fooling anyone with that anymore..
J-Mouth.. Catch the mother blanking ball. WOW
Capers - LB's matched up against WR all day.. He just got owned.
The refs were atrocious. The 1rst play of the game where they call the KICKING team for a block in the back..LOL...
Cobb and how he was used.
Sitton looks like he is back to 2010 form.
Clay Mathews
Negatives
Communication in the secondary.. Guys running free all day.
3rd and 1 throw a 70 yard pass.. We are not fooling anyone with that anymore..
J-Mouth.. Catch the mother blanking ball. WOW
Capers - LB's matched up against WR all day.. He just got owned.
The refs were atrocious. The 1rst play of the game where they call the KICKING team for a block in the back..LOL...
quote:Originally posted by FreeSafety:
The SF coaches are getting praise today for finding a way to get Crabtree matched up against Perry several times yesterday. Some of his bigger plays came against Perry's coverage.
Dallas had success by getting Ogletree (who?) matched up against one of the Giants backup CBs.
No coach should have an easier time getting these kinds of matchups than Mike McCarthy. When James Jones and Cobb are your 3rd and 4th WRs, Finley draws safety coverage...etc...
Yep, more than a few reviews that we were outcoached yesterday.
From one Bay Area paper
"This may have been the most well-coached game I've ever covered. From a preparation standpoint, the 49ers coaches were on fire. The question is not whether they outcoached the Packers (they did). But rather it's, who was more masterful, the offensive or defensive coaches?"
Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/...l.html#storylink=cpy
The upside is poor preparation is easier to fix than a lack of talent. Let's see if we come up with some better adjustments against another physical team on Thursday. The play and adjustments against the last 3 power teams (Chiefs, Giants, 49ers) has left a lot to be desired.
quote:Originally posted by FreeSafety:
What part of the Packers offensive roster needs to be upgraded so that quite a few NFL defense can't match up well against it?
LT, C, and RB. The Packers need to be able to run the ball. Maybe Newhouse and Saturday and Benson can be enough, but yesterday was very, very frustrating to watch.
Also agree with those that say McCarthy needs to run the ball 10 or more times than he did yesterday. It's gotta be enough to keep the defenses honest. If they don't have to worry about the run, they will find good matchups. We don't have 7 HOF players on offense.
Maybe M3 skipped game planning for the opener and focused on the Bears?
quote:Originally posted by who:
Then, when the other team slows the game down, limits our offensive opportunities, it increases the pressure. So, in a reduced amount of opportunities, having all of those stupid penalties further reduces the chances. This a recipe for disaster.
I agree with your premise, but as for yesterday, I think the 49ers ran 62 plays and the Packers ran 61, that is an average number of offensive plays IIRC.
quote:Originally posted by Brak:
The Packers need to be able to run the ball.
my arguement is certainly detracted by yesterdays outcome, but I disagree. This is a passing team with the best passer in football. I like Cobb in the backfield much more than any of our running backs for that reason. Just go out and pass the ball, points will follow.