Pos/Neg from Panthers Game

+

Just about everything. Offense appears to be finally firing on all cylinders and while I need to see more, I'm really excited about the direction of the defense.

 

-

Game was over when it occurred, but horrible ball security by Eddie on the fumble that he needs to clean up.

Having a safety lead the team in solo tackles, or tackles period, is generally not considered a good sign.

I don't see how it is possible to dismiss Henry's point and his point is NOT how good folks like Lattimore are, it is how much better they are than the people they replaced.

 

This particular facet of coaching - discerning who is the better player - demonstrably seems a facet Capers could use some improvement on.

 

Herschel,

 

My "wow" was not meant to characterize your point, but the point made in the post I quoted.  Ha Ha looks like a very good safety, as evidenced by those numbers.

 

Something we have not seen in a while.

http://espn.go.com/blog/green-...n-his-packers-jersey

 

"I think just my body posture was a little too mean-looking," Matthews said. "You know how it is nowadays, we've got to be best buds out there, you can't show any aggression." Of course, Matthews said something, too. "But nothing bad," he added.

Dislocated finger: Packers cornerback Davon House, who started in place of the injured Sam Shields, knew something was wrong with his right ring finger when he deflected a pass in the second half, but "I didn’t want to look at it," he said. House said he dislocated it. He squirmed on the bench when it was popped back in place.

To me, it's not how much better they are than the people they replaced, but how much better they are playing. Teams are limited with their contact reps in practice so knowing Lattimore (and Barrington for that matter) is going to play much better than Jones is not as easy as some might think. But this is my complaint with Capers, he's too slow to make a change when someone seems to be playing poorly. I know there is the old adage that you play like you practice, but Allen Iverson would dispute that.

 

What's clear now is that Jones will only see snaps at ILB if they lose Lattimore and Barrington. Seems Lattimore was on a snap count yesterday and they went to Barrington before putting Jones in there. Very telling.

 

 

 

 

Sounds like Capers is relatively competent to me which apparently is the standard.

His competence will be relative on how the DEF plays next Sunday night.

What???

 

Here's a rough analogy.  Shaquille O'Neil.  Yeah, relatively competent.

 

Does that mean one does not observe a subpar facet of this competence (free throw shooting)?  Does it somehow become untouchable territory?

 

This facet of Capers is pretty fundamental.  If one wants his best playing players on the field.

Is it better to be in position and blow an assignment or to blow an assignment because you're not in position?

 

Keep chasing that tail.  Maybe you can get the real issue to go away altogether or you could actually admit that the guy that is supposed to run the defense is lacking in areas and shows the same general pattern in every job he's had. 

 

 

 

Quite a few safety's in the top rankings for tackles.  Been that way for awhile.  Typically you MLB gets the most tackles, but Safety is often the next guy on the list.  

Interesting.  All of these players are getting better as the year goes on:

 

HaHa

Burnett

House

Perry

Peppers

Pennell

Guion

Datone before getting hurt

 

I wonder, just wonder if these players getting better (a) had anything to do with coaching and (b) had anything to do with why some of the stiffs started the year - because the guys playing now are improving but weren't ready then.

 

Someone also had to fill the roster with guys who had room to improve.  

 

I'm enjoying watching folks who puked up knee-jerk stupidity in September twisting themselves into pretzels in order to hang on to said opinions.  

 

The defense is getting better because the players are getting better.  The players are getting better because the coaching is helping them improve.  If some idiot GM hadn't put these players on the roster in the first place, there would be no room for improvement.  

 

Funny how Dom also looks better when he's got, you know, better players.  

Hank why can't you admit that once we improved the talent then the performance of the entire unit improved. Once we stopped trotting out MD Jennings and Andy Mulumba and put in Clinton-Dix and Julius Peppers the whole show got a lot better. Why is that so hard to admit? Stop deflecting. I've never said Capers doesnt have shortcomings, but every DC needs talent and several of the starters have been relatively incompetent the last 3 years.

So are we firing Capers or keeping Capers? And what about Thompson? Only 3 draft picks left on the team from 2011 and only 3 from 2012. As Brandon Marshall would say, unacceptable.

 

 

 

Good post JJSD.

 

 

 

Bull****.  That's the entire reason why this conversation is happening and the reason I'm going to hang this on your ass all season. 

 

 

 

So it's almost like it's a organizational failure for the defense over the past 3 years, including the guy that runs the defense.  

That sound you are hearing is the X4 Never Forgets search feature in high gear for posts referencing Capers.

Worth noting.

 

@jasonjwilde: Per the #NFL official gamebook, S Ha Ha Clinton-Dix played all 69 defensive snaps yesterday for #Packers.

 

Hank mentioned further maturation in response to my anti-Norvening observation yesterday. Indeed.

 

Now let's see more snaps for Perry, Richardson, Lattimore, Barrington, Pennel, Robinson. I still would like to see Richardson deployed at ILB on some passing downs.

He all but had to.

 

Shields was out and House and Burnett left the game with injuries.

 

So glad we have Ha Ha instead of MD Jennings in that position.

Another ridiculous dodge. You're a smart guy Hank, we can both be right. Dom Capers can have shortcomings and faults BUT the biggest problem with the D hasn't been his faults but rather an overall lack of talent to cover up his faults.

X4 never forgets and if you can find one single post where I have said he's perfect and has no faults then show your cards. I'm not going to hang anything on you because I don't give a crap that you disagree with me, if I'm right then the upgraded with talent will continue to get better and I will be too excited and happy to be so negative.

Does Capers have holes in his approach?  Yep, you bet.  So does MM and oh, just about every other coach in the NFL.  

 

Have there been bad coaching decisions, bad game plans and the like?  Sure, just like with every team out there.

 

It's the players, Hank.  The players.  Go find me any of the stiffs that were on the defense over the last three years, since that's now the time frame you want to use, and show me how well they're playing for other teams.  Is Jerron McMillian lighting it up for someone?  How about MD Jennings?  Boy, that Erik Walden, who actually got a good contract somehow, sure is a terror out there.  Johnny Jolly is headed for the Pro Bowl.  So is Pickett.  Woodson is another Ed Reed out in Oakland.  Bruce Smith gets scared of CJ Wilson through his TV.

 

If you want it broken down as quantitatively as possible, I'd put 75 percent on the personnel acquisition folks and about 22 percent on the coaching.  The other three percent is reserved for freedom.  

The only thing I know and actually care about is that the defense is playing great, the offense is playing great, and the Packers are winning.  Some people are never happy.  Go Packers!

Yeah, but Nick Barnett wasn't terrible, certainly not the kind of player that deserved to be benched.

 

AJ Hawk has been begging to be replaced.  They didn't have to wait for Nick to go down to insert Bishop, but they did.

 

I wonder, just wonder if these players getting better (a) had anything to do with coaching and (b) had anything to do with why some of the stiffs started the year - because the guys playing now are improving but weren't ready then.

You could make that argument for Pennell and Guion, not for ILB.   

 

I'm good with my take, like it matters in the scheme of things.  

 

The whole thing is 6 of one, half a dozen of another.  The D flops in the playoffs, then it's the players, not poor Dom's fault or flip the equation.  It's been a organizational failure and a search bears out my take.  I definitely do assign more blame to the guy that runs the ****ing defense especially in the light of the past 3 years.

 

Like has been said by many, Capers is slow to react and implement.  If that's the case your position coaches better have their **** together.  

 

They are playing championship defense right now.  Let's see it in the playoffs as well. 

 

 

 

Agree with Richardson as the Dime LB.   Last week it was AJ Hawk, again.   I don't understand why you select your slowest and least agile LB for this duty.

 

Too much value is being placed on his experience and not enough on ability. 

"It's the players, Hank.  The players."

 

Then we need to stop pretending like TT walks on water, yes?

Why do you keep saying that? Who is doing that? Just because we don't call him an idiot because he missed on a couple draft picks or free agents doesn't mean anyone worships him. He's one of the best GMs in the NFL but be has faults like every other person in the NFL.

Only 3% for freedom? Commie.

 

Absolutely every coach has holes, the point is not going stagnant and letting the game pass you by.  That was the whole point of "The Norvening".  Capers is a dyed in the wool Capering Norvaholic.  He can scheme away till the cows come home but the guy can't get out of the booth and actually evaluate the talent he has to work with.

 

There is no doubt its about player acquisition but you also have to be able to work with what you have at times and Capers seems disconnected.  How does Joe Whitt keeping taking scrubs, the Packers starting CBs, yet we have the Jamari Lattimore projects going on 4 years AND STILL the guy is a better option than Brad Jones.  Yet there's No Fault Dom trotting these guys out as starters.  

 

I just find it silly to say the guy that runs the defense is completely absolved because he goes through a talent hit at times.  We all know it's organizational across the board but I'm over this dismissing the Wizard when the defense looks clownish in the first couple of games due to being unable to call plays in.  That's not players, that's ****ty coaching.  Being completely unprepared when it counts, that's coaching.

Don't think anyone ever suggested Thompson walks on water, but he has put together a more consistently successful team than 90% of the GMs out there.

 

 

I am going to guess it is 99% likely that Lattimore would have outperformed Jones from Game 1, but so also, it should have been known that IF he needed actual game time to play at a higher level than Jones, it was time that had to be given.

 

Yes, to a large degree, it's the players.  But, a player sitting on the bench is not going to do a whole lot.

 

Hungry5:

he's too slow to make a change when someone seems to be playing poorly.

Whitt gets credit for the CBs and Capers gets blamed for the LBs but not Moss?

 

 

 

No one is saying TT walks on water, and no one is 'completely' absolving Dan Compers.  No one.  

 

The reason Whitt can take guys like Williams and Shields and develop them is because they are not scrubs.  Most of the guys I mentioned who are either playing elsewhere or on the street are scrubs, either because they just stink or because they're over the hill - or both.

 

As far as the Jones/Lattimore thing, IMHO Lattimore was not always a better option.  Even now I think it's a matter of deciding whether you want peanuts or corn on your turd sandwich.  ILB is a mess, and it will be until they put some type of resources into improving it - whether it's the draft or whatever.  

 

Let's just be honest.  Your affection for Dom has far exceed "never said he didn't have shortcomings."  Every team has to manage injuries, playing 7th round draft picks, and figuring out what scheme gets the most out of the hand you are dealt.  Dom deserves all the **** he's gotten on this board because he has marched out to many clowncars and big game collapses in his time here.  Now, we may not have in 2014 an Atari Bigby, Eric Walden or Brandon Underwood like we had in 2010, but I do think Dom's always had the horses to force enough punts for the AR led offense to outscore anyone.  

 

I do think I've seen more schemes and alignments that play to the strengths of the 11 on the field this year than we saw in the three prior years.  Maybe that is because of the infusion of Peppers and HaHa, maybe Dom is making the right calls this year and still growing as a coach.  Regardless, Capers deserved the **** he got (McCarthy has agreed with me, " "Adrian Peterson and the San Francisco game were our two black eyes," McCarthy told the Green Bay Press Gazette on Wednesday at the NFL Annual Meeting in Phoenix. "And that's where we've got to be better. Those are big games. We've got to play better defense in big games." 

 

-snip-

 

McCarthy doesn't believe his players are the problem, but defensive coordinator Dom Capers is under the microscope. Green Bay's defense ranked 22nd in the NFL last season against the pass and 17th against the run, but the central problem was a tendency to collapse when it mattered most. The high-octane offense continued to rain points, but McCarthy -- after defending his team's toughness -- wants to see something new on defense in 2013.).

 

Maybe in 2014 we are seeing something new.  

Nice positive.

 

@PGPackersNews

Yesterday was one of most peaceful games in last 11 yrs. 1 arrest, 5 ejections

 

 

 

Noon game, less time to get ready.

Detroit was supposed to be the first 'big' test for the defense.  They gave up 10 points.  After that, the meme suddenly became 'let's see if they can stop CHI on the road.'  They did that in the second half with TO's even though they got absolutely gashed on the ground.  

 

Then it was 'let's see if they can stomp on MIN' and that's what they did.  

 

Then it became 'let's see if they can slow down MIA's running game' and they did for the most part, other than showing leaks on the read-option.

 

Then it was 'let's see if Cam Newton makes the defense look silly with the read-option' and he did not.  

 

Now it's 'let's see if they can slow down NO on the road.'  

 

I agree, that's going to be a huge test.  I actually think GB will get beat this week because NO is totally desperate and GB is not.  That said, with all of these 'tests' for the defense it sure seems like the tests that were previously passed are ignored while those with certain beliefs and opinions simply want to move immediately to the next test.

 

Guess what?  There are going to be tests all season.  

To a lesser degree, some guys simply practice like ****. Starks is a decent example of a guy that doesn't show a damn thing between Sunday's. 

 

Sometimes you don't know what you have in a guy until until the bullets are live. 

 

I will add this, with even the marginal uptick in talent (Lattimnore) at ILB, and a competent safety doing competent safety like things. And the DL flashing a little bit. The suck of Hawk is sticking out more than ever. He looked so damn lost yesterday. 

The biggest problem the Packers defense has had consistently is that ILBs and the safeties have trouble matching up in pass coverage and don't seem to play the run well. Other than their difficulties with the read option, this is the biggest problem.

 

The problems with the safeties have gotten better now that TT has invested a high draft pick in the position. The difference between MD Jennings and Clinton-Dix is enormous.

 

The problems with run defense are largely due to how well the DTs keep OL off the ILBs. Hawk, Lattimore, Jones, etc. are average to below average players, but even Pro Bowl level ILBs don't stop the run well if they are getting hammered by 340 pound guards at the point of attack.

 

The ILBs still struggle mightily in coverage, but isn't that where almost all teams struggle. Luke Kuechly is considered one of the best ILBs in football, yet he had one of the lowest grades ProFootballFocus gave out yesterday. The Packers made him look like a scrub by forcing him to match up with guys in coverage. You are asking guys who have the body type to play ILB (usually guys who fill gaps at the LOS and make tackles by taking on fullbacks, guards, etc.) to guard guys in coverage they can't physically match up with. If Julius Peppers was playing football right now, he might be a TE. That's the type of guys you are asking AJ Hawk to cover - Jimmy Graham, Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzalez, Jermichael Finley, Rob Gronkowski, etc. If you don't get that matchup, they often have to cover a back out of the backfield like Reggie Bush, Matt Forte, Darren Sproles, etc. In either case, they are trying to cover guys that they aren't physically equipped to cover - who are either exponentially quicker (RBs), or taller, as big, and better athletes (TEs).

 

That's what modern football revolves around - making decisions about how to stop TEs who are the equivalent of Division 1 NCAA basketball power forwards. If you take out your LBs, you end up with 210 pound safeties having to support against the run by taking on 260 pound fullbacks or 340 guards. If you leave the ILBs in, they then have to go into pass coverage against mismatches. If you double the TEs with LBs and safeties, you leave your corners on an island.

 

I guess what I'm arguing is that while we do need an upgrade from Hawk, Jones, etc., it's not like we are the only team that has this problem. The best way to "fix" any defense is to be able to rush the passer with 4 guys and put pressure on.  

Every team does have injuries and average players starting definitely. Every defense has weak links, but not every team starts MD Jennings AND AJ Hawk AND Brad Jones AND 34 yr old Ryan Pickett AND Andy Mulumba AND Nate Palmer AND Morgan Burnett. Individually you can cover up 1 or 2 of those players but there's a limit to what you can do with that group.

There a couple great examples of how the average level of talent were used to is: 1) were arguing about how it wasn't identified that a barely average player in Jamari Lattimore wasn't seeing the field sooner because he would have been an upgrade. That's pathetic that HE may be the best ILB on the team and even more sad is that we were all excited when he finally got to see the field. That's a low bar. 2) Someone just praised Joe Whitt for developing good CBs, which he has, but when was the last time someone praised one of the other coaches for developing their position group? It's because there's been nothing to brag about.