Rodgers realizes what lies ahead

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Originally posted by Coach:

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:

How is saying "Yip Cabbage" offensive? I thought I was on your bad side already. It's pretty hard for you to say that not knowing what I know about football. I guess my posts here relegate me to idiot status because I don't, well, you already know.

If she's credible to you and others how would I know? And...better yet...why would I care? Seriously? Someone with credibility can be wrong.

That's rather indignant.

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Someone with credibility can be wrong.

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Originally posted by Max:

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Rodgers has played at a high level before, and he is under the tutelage of MM. He is surrounded by weapons. Is it "unrealistic" to think that he will be successful? I don't think so.

I did not say it was unrealistic to think Rodgers will be successful. I said it's unrealistic to think the guy's going to step into the lineup as a virtual rookie and be "better than Favre." He has played at a high level in exactly half of a regular season NFL game. Yes, I do think it's unrealistic to look at that and think he will be better than Favre. Or Majkowski. Or any number of great, very good, or good quarterbacks.

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Originally posted by nerdmann:
I base this assessment on his performance generally since OTAs last year. "The light went on" for him. MM told him a bunch of specific things to do to get with his program before that offseason. He did them.

"His performance generally"? Considering the limited evidence, it's not exactly hard to be specific. His performance in half a game against Dallas was great. Beyond that I guess we're talking about his performance in the preseason games. Which to me doesn't mean much.

This idea that Favre could be as successful as he was for as long as he was by incessantly doing all the things you accuse him of suggests it's nothing short of miraculous that we had any success at all over the past 16 years. I guess he was one lucky guy.

I think it's the "breath of fresh air comment" that really gets me. Sounds like you don't have the faintest clue how good we as Packers fans, compared to other NFL fans in the history of the league, have had it. Seriously, I hope Rodgers is half of what you expect him to be and you never have to find out.

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Originally posted by MsPacman:

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Someone with credibility can be wrong.

Seriously?

So, then someone with intelligence can make mistakes, no?

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Originally posted by Max:
1. Half a game of NFL action that counts. No NFL starts. Virtual rookie.
2. I'm not denying they occurred. I am denying that (as CoP suggests) it was virtually a 50-50 thing, or that these plays will disappear under Rodgers. (Or any NFL quarterback.) Throw for 61,000 yards over 17 years and hell yeah, there are going to be a lot of bad throws. You talk as if that was most of what we got.
3. I'm going to just let another QB actually start a game for us before I say he'll be better than Favre, that's all.

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:

To you it's indignant...to me it's true. Sal Palantonio wrote a book about Favre. He was torched here because of it. I would say he has, or had, a fair amount of credibility but he was mercilessly blasted because his view clashed with the views of Packers fans. He knew it was coming out of Wisconsin. Was there a backlash against his statements anywhere else but from Packer fans? No.

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Originally posted by MsPacman:
So because your research didn't back up your contention that the 60/40 ratio of good plays to bad was a good measuring stick for what makes a QB smart, you are simply going to shift your arguement to TD/INT ratio. Did I get that right?

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:

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Originally posted by Coach:

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:

How is saying "Yip Cabbage" offensive? I thought I was on your bad side already. It's pretty hard for you to say that not knowing what I know about football. I guess my posts here relegate me to idiot status because I don't, well, you already know.

If she's credible to you and others how would I know? And...better yet...why would I care? Seriously? Someone with credibility can be wrong.

That's rather indignant.

To you it's indignant...to me it's true. Sal Palantonio wrote a book about Favre. He was torched here because of it. I would say he has, or had, a fair amount of credibility but he was mercilessly blasted because his view clashed with the views of Packers fans. He knew it was coming out of Wisconsin. Was there a backlash against his statements anywhere else but from Packer fans? No.

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:

Smart QB's don't throw a lot of picks. Or..is that a bad assumption? If Brady started chucking into triple coverage and losing big games due to bad throws would you change your current opinion of him?

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:

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Originally posted by MsPacman:
So because your research didn't back up your contention that the 60/40 ratio of good plays to bad was a good measuring stick for what makes a QB smart, you are simply going to shift your arguement to TD/INT ratio. Did I get that right?

No. If I was trying to do that I would've never posted Marino or Elway's completion percentage. I doubt anyone was conjuring that quickly to mind.

What have I been saying over and over about Favre? He made horrific mistakes at critical times. The mistakes I'm speaking of are interceptions. It was interesting to see which QB's had the best TD/INT ratio. Favre wasn't even close in that category. Did he end up setting the all time INT record? I've honestly forgotten what happened there.

Smart QB's don't throw a lot of picks. Or..is that a bad assumption? If Brady started chucking into triple coverage and losing big games due to bad throws would you change your current opinion of him?

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Originally posted by MsPacman:

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:

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Originally posted by MsPacman:
So because your research didn't back up your contention that the 60/40 ratio of good plays to bad was a good measuring stick for what makes a QB smart, you are simply going to shift your arguement to TD/INT ratio. Did I get that right?

No. If I was trying to do that I would've never posted Marino or Elway's completion percentage. I doubt anyone was conjuring that quickly to mind.

What have I been saying over and over about Favre? He made horrific mistakes at critical times. The mistakes I'm speaking of are interceptions. It was interesting to see which QB's had the best TD/INT ratio. Favre wasn't even close in that category. Did he end up setting the all time INT record? I've honestly forgotten what happened there.

Smart QB's don't throw a lot of picks. Or..is that a bad assumption? If Brady started chucking into triple coverage and losing big games due to bad throws would you change your current opinion of him?

You're making an assumption that smart people don't take risks and I would contend that such an assumption is absurd.

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:
So because your research didn't back up your contention that the 60/40 ratio of good plays to bad was a good measuring stick for what makes a QB smart, you are simply going to shift your arguement to TD/INT ratio. Did I get that right?

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Originally posted by CJS:

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Originally posted by MsPacman:
So because your research didn't back up your contention that the 60/40 ratio of good plays to bad was a good measuring stick for what makes a QB smart, you are simply going to shift your arguement to TD/INT ratio. Did I get that right?

You're damn right you did. 100% correct, Ms. P.

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:

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Originally posted by CJS:

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Originally posted by MsPacman:
So because your research didn't back up your contention that the 60/40 ratio of good plays to bad was a good measuring stick for what makes a QB smart, you are simply going to shift your arguement to TD/INT ratio. Did I get that right?

You're damn right you did. 100% correct, Ms. P.

It must be nice to have fans.

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

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Originally posted by MsPacman:

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

Educated risks, while not always wise, can produce the most spectacular and unexpected outcomes. How many of the world's greatest achievements were reached without the well-educated taking calculated risks?

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:

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Originally posted by MsPacman:

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

Educated risks, while not always wise, can produce the most spectacular and unexpected outcomes. How many of the world's greatest achievements were reached without the well-educated taking calculated risks?

I'll keep this thread in mind next time I see a Packers QB, no matter who he is, make some incredibly stupid risk taking interception. I'll be sure to remind you of this quote comparing science and life to NFL football. Wow.

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Originally posted by MsPacman:

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

Educated risks, while not always wise, can produce the most spectacular and unexpected outcomes. How many of the world's greatest achievements were reached without the well-educated taking calculated risks?

I'll keep this thread in mind next time I see a Packers QB, no matter who he is, make some incredibly stupid risk taking interception. I'll be sure to remind you of this quote comparing science and life to NFL football. Wow.

I believe you're the only one talking about "incredibly stupid risk taking interceptions". I certainly never mentioned them. So you go ahead and do that, sweetie.

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

Educated risks, while not always wise, can produce the most spectacular and unexpected outcomes. How many of the world's greatest achievements were reached without the well-educated taking calculated risks?

I'll keep this thread in mind next time I see a Packers QB, no matter who he is, make some incredibly stupid risk taking interception. I'll be sure to remind you of this quote comparing science and life to NFL football. Wow.


I'll also ask about the backlash vs. Sal Palantonio... Was there one outside of Favre and Packer fans? Was there? No. It was right on the money.

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Originally posted by Coach:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:

quote:

Originally posted by MsPacman:

quote:

Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Tell me what type of risks you think are wise.

Educated risks, while not always wise, can produce the most spectacular and unexpected outcomes. How many of the world's greatest achievements were reached without the well-educated taking calculated risks?

I'll keep this thread in mind next time I see a Packers QB, no matter who he is, make some incredibly stupid risk taking interception. I'll be sure to remind you of this quote comparing science and life to NFL football. Wow.


I'll also ask about the backlash vs. Sal Palantonio... Was there one outside of Favre and Packer fans? Was there? No. It was right on the money.

Stage four (CoP is watching).

I believe the main reason there wasn't a backlash against Palantonio because nobody really cared what he thought.

Sounds like somebody I've crossed paths with on the "innernet" the last two offseasons.

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Originally posted by MsPacman:
Here are the answers...



1) Favre's wonderlic score was in the mid twenties which is plenty smart enough to play QB in a WCO which he readily proved in his stellar 17 year career.

2) Aaron Rodgers is more intelligent than Brett Favre if Wonderlic scores are to be believed.

3) Aaron Rodgers has yet to prove if his intelligence will carry over to the NFL arena. (Hopefully it does)

4) Brett Favre could be perfectly exasperating at times and we all know and admit that. The careless interceptions we terrible.

5) Favre was a great football player and QB if he is judged by the entirety of his career.

6) We'll likely never see another one like him in our lifetime.

Anything else?

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:
No. Untrue. Palantonio's words would've have been roundly criticized on the national level had they been inflammatory or inaccurate. Sadly, his words were neither. He made excellent points that only Packer fans/Favre fans took issue with. I know what he went through because it happens right here.

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:

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Originally posted by MsPacman:
Here are the answers...



1) Favre's wonderlic score was in the mid twenties which is plenty smart enough to play QB in a WCO which he readily proved in his stellar 17 year career.

2) Aaron Rodgers is more intelligent than Brett Favre if Wonderlic scores are to be believed.

3) Aaron Rodgers has yet to prove if his intelligence will carry over to the NFL arena. (Hopefully it does)

4) Brett Favre could be perfectly exasperating at times and we all know and admit that. The careless interceptions we terrible.

5) Favre was a great football player and QB if he is judged by the entirety of his career.

6) We'll likely never see another one like him in our lifetime.

Anything else?

Great work. I agree. What about Sal Palantonio and the lack of a national backlash. Would love your thoughts on the excerpts of his book that made it into the national media.

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Originally posted by Coach:

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:
No. Untrue. Palantonio's words would've have been roundly criticized on the national level had they been inflammatory or inaccurate. Sadly, his words were neither. He made excellent points that only Packer fans/Favre fans took issue with. I know what he went through because it happens right here.

Why, because you say so?



Nobody cared (including Favre).

Dazzle us:

Name one other chapter in that book without looking it up that criticized another individual (or team) and then we can discuss the lack of a "backlash" for that too.

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:

You tell me ONE other chapter that was quoted and we'll start there.

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Originally posted by phaedrus:
I could be wrong, but I thought it was getting unlikely for Favre to NOT make a potential game-breaking mistake for three games in a row, thereby making a SB unattainable.

Man, I'll still never forget the pass he threw in the 4th and 26 Eagles game. No way Starr EVER does that.

Here's a small bit of tempering. Montana threw a pass right into a Bengal in the SB on the game-winning drive. Most likely, if the guy holds onto the ball, Montana did his share to LOSE the game.

But, I think Favre had a bit of a penchant for this type of thing and so three wins in a row against playoff caliber teams was seeming less and less likely.

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Originally posted by nerdmann:

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Originally posted by phaedrus:
I could be wrong, but I thought it was getting unlikely for Favre to NOT make a potential game-breaking mistake for three games in a row, thereby making a SB unattainable.

Man, I'll still never forget the pass he threw in the 4th and 26 Eagles game. No way Starr EVER does that.

Here's a small bit of tempering. Montana threw a pass right into a Bengal in the SB on the game-winning drive. Most likely, if the guy holds onto the ball, Montana did his share to LOSE the game.

But, I think Favre had a bit of a penchant for this type of thing and so three wins in a row against playoff caliber teams was seeming less and less likely.

Favre played on adrenaline.
He could pull plays out of his rear end, like the one where he was stumbling and flips the ball underhanded to Donald Lee. Those made up (to whatever extent) for the hyperactive throws into triple coverage.
I just don't think Rodgers is that type of QB. AND I think CONSISTENCY is the key to success.

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Originally posted by nerdmann:

Favre played on adrenaline.

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Elway, Favre and Marino do not.

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Originally posted by Goalline:

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Elway, Favre and Marino do not.

Well, Elway wasn't very bright, after all, he went to Stanford.

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Originally posted by Change of Possession:

nerdmann...Thank GOD you're on this board. I think you're one of the few along with phaedrus who actually gets this debate.