An interesting old read about how our organization regards the Wonderlic. Not long ago we were the "dumbest" team in the league.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=676852&format=print
Yeah, that's really a sad indictment of the Sherman era and one of the many reasons why I appreciate Ted Thompson.
quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
nerdmann...Thank GOD you're on this board. I think you're one of the few along with phaedrus who actually gets this debate.
Thanks for being condescending - again. Thing is, we do get it. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we don't get it.
CoP, you brought all of the same here BS last year and GOT BLOWN OUT OF THE WATER. Both by the posters here and then by Favre himself with his excellent season. It was so freaking beautiful watching Favre light it up and hearing ***silence*** from you. It took you a whole year to come crawling back here and your agenda still hasn't changed. You see, you're the one who doesn't get it CoP.
Oh and if you're looking for more troll meat, forget it, this is my last response to you on this topic.
quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
nerdmann...Thank GOD you're on this board. I think you're one of the few along with phaedrus who actually gets this debate.
quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
To be able to look at things and be objective even when you bleed for the green and gold is a gift that not many possess.
I think I threw up in my mouth a little bit, there.
quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
nerdmann...Thank GOD you're on this board. I think you're one of the few along with phaedrus who actually gets this debate.
My goodness, you have a big mouth. Where was all this chest thumping during the season when Favre set out to prove every one of your claims wrong? Did you "get it" then?
quote:Originally posted by CJS:quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
nerdmann...Thank GOD you're on this board. I think you're one of the few along with phaedrus who actually gets this debate.
Thanks for being condescending - again. Thing is, we do get it. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we don't get it.
CoP, you brought all of the same here BS last year and GOT BLOWN OUT OF THE WATER. Both by the posters here and then by Favre himself with his excellent season. It was so freaking beautiful watching Favre light it up and hearing ***silence*** from you. It took you a whole year to come crawling back here and your agenda still hasn't changed. You see, you're the one who doesn't get it CoP.
Oh and if you're looking for more troll meat, forget it, this is my last response to you on this topic.
For the record, I don't post during the season...Never have. I enjoy posting in the off-season. I stated that when I left last year. My silence had zero to do with Favre's season.
It is nice when fans can admit things about the team and player(s) they love. I feel very strongly that nerdmann and phaedrus and some others are able to be more objective than the rest of you.
My point was Rodgers is more intelligent than Favre and hope that reduces the amount of stupid turnover plays we endured under Brett. If you dispute that which I think is indisputable call the NFL and tell them to stop administering the Wonderlic which is the measure they use to determine intelligence.
I enjoyed Favre's last great season just as much than any of you. I assure you of that. Still, our season ended on a typical poor decision that haunts our legendary QB and always will. It tarnishes all he's done IMO. Not the one stupid career ending play but plays of those types that he seemed to make over and over and over.
Oh, and yes...Favre sure did prove EVERY ONE OF MY CLAIMS WRONG. Did you happen to catch the NFC Championship game? You know the one where he flung a ball to Driver when he could've dumped the ball to a wide open Ryan Grant? Yes, I'm way off base here. This is exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to objectivity. You say I'm delusional, stupid, a blowhard yet the actual proof of what I say exists. Pull the tape, disc, or just catch that play on NFL Network some day. Watch for the moonball in Philly, the underhand lob over the line of scrimmage that helped us lose to Minnesota in the playoffs. See his multiple pick game vs. the Rams in the playoffs...yup he was the epitome of greatness all the time.
quote:Oh, and yes...Favre sure did prove EVERY ONE OF MY CLAIMS WRONG. Did you happen to catch the NFC Championship game? You know the one where he flung a ball to Driver when he could've dumped the ball to a wide open Ryan Grant? Yes, I'm way off base here. This is exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to objectivity. You say I'm delusional, stupid, a blowhard yet the actual proof of what I say exists. Pull the tape, disc, or just catch that play on NFL Network some day. Watch for the moonball in Philly, the underhand lob over the line of scrimmage that helped us lose to Minnesota in the playoffs. See his multiple pick game vs. the Rams in the playoffs...yup he was the epitome of greatness all the time.
This needs to be tempered by at least three things.
1. How often do all QB's not make the perfect read. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't exactly a rare occurrence.
2. The weather. It does appear it was getting to him, at his age.
3. The Packers were no running threat whatsoever. Intense burden on Favre.
You can argue that nerdmann is objective when it comes to Favre, but the Packers? And Rodgers specifically?
You tell me if a Packers fan who thinks a Packers quarterback who has never started a game, yet is going to be not good, not great, but "elite" - his words - is being objective. In a word, yuh. That puts the H in homer.
You tell me if a Packers fan who thinks a Packers quarterback who has never started a game, yet is going to be not good, not great, but "elite" - his words - is being objective. In a word, yuh. That puts the H in homer.
quote:This needs to be tempered by at least three things.
1. How often do all QB's not make the perfect read. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't exactly a rare occurrence.
2. The weather. It does appear it was getting to him, at his age.
3. The Packers were no running threat whatsoever. Intense burden on Favre.
Great points...I still get a kick out of all these football know-it-alls blaming Favre for the NFC Championship loss. We had 29 yards rushing. I totally agree that Favre looked like he didn't want to be out there but I don't know many quarterbacks that are going to win in the playoffs if they have absolutely no rushing attack, especially in that weather. Maybe a 96' Favre could have pulled that out but I don't think so.
quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
some others are able to be more objective than the rest of you.
more objective than the rest of you = agree more with my agenda.
What is quite possibly the most frustrating is this thread started out about AR. You turned it into an opportunity to call Favre dumb knowing it would derail the thread (again, its been your agenda for a long time). You set it up under the guise of AR is smarter than BF, but it is obvious that your intention was to find a reason to browbeat Favre. You'll likely dispute that, but every time a counter argument was made, you drew AR into the conversation, artificially creating a divide for "pick Brett or Pick Aaron." That is your agenda, not the agenda of this board.
What is sad is creating a controversy where there is none. Many here are sad to see a legend leave and many are excited for the upcoming season with a new QB. Those groups are not exclusive. To say that the members of this board do not recognize and label the flaws in Favre's game is also insulting, we've been doing it for years.
I for one consider myself lucky to have witnessed a hall of fame career from the QB of my favorite football team. It bothers me that you desire to take away from that by ****ting all over the board in an attempt to make people take sides. I'm a Packer fan who was lucky to see Brett Favre. Now I'm excited to cheer for Aaron Rodgers. I'm grateful most Packer fans are more "intelligent," "rational," and "eloquent" than yourself.
quote:Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:
Favre dumb
AR is smarter than BF,
Pick Aaron.
Favre's game is insulting
Am I going to have to throw down with you, too?
I'm your huckleberry
who am I kidding, I can't stay mad at you.
who am I kidding, I can't stay mad at you.
quote:Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
some others are able to be more objective than the rest of you.
more objective than the rest of you = agree more with my agenda.
What is quite possibly the most frustrating is this thread started out about AR. You turned it into an opportunity to call Favre dumb knowing it would derail the thread (again, its been your agenda for a long time). You set it up under the guise of AR is smarter than BF, but it is obvious that your intention was to find a reason to browbeat Favre. You'll likely dispute that, but every time a counter argument was made, you drew AR into the conversation, artificially creating a divide for "pick Brett or Pick Aaron." That is your agenda, not the agenda of this board.
What is sad is creating a controversy where there is none. Many hear are sad to see a legend leave and many are excited for the upcoming season with a new QB. Those groups are not exclusive. To say that the members of this board do not recognize and label the flaws in Favre's game is also insulting, we've been doing it for years.
I for one consider myself luck to have witness a hall of fame career from the QB of my favorite football team. It bothers me that you desire to take away from that by ****ting all over the board in an attempt to make people take sides. I'm a Packer fan who was lucky to see Brett Favre. Now I'm excited to cheer for Aaron Rodgers. I'm grateful most Packer fans are more "intelligent," "rational," and "eloquent" than yourself.
Excellent post.
quote:Originally posted by Coach:quote:Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
some others are able to be more objective than the rest of you.
more objective than the rest of you = agree more with my agenda.
What is quite possibly the most frustrating is this thread started out about AR. You turned it into an opportunity to call Favre dumb knowing it would derail the thread (again, its been your agenda for a long time). You set it up under the guise of AR is smarter than BF, but it is obvious that your intention was to find a reason to browbeat Favre. You'll likely dispute that, but every time a counter argument was made, you drew AR into the conversation, artificially creating a divide for "pick Brett or Pick Aaron." That is your agenda, not the agenda of this board.
What is sad is creating a controversy where there is none. Many hear are sad to see a legend leave and many are excited for the upcoming season with a new QB. Those groups are not exclusive. To say that the members of this board do not recognize and label the flaws in Favre's game is also insulting, we've been doing it for years.
I for one consider myself luck to have witness a hall of fame career from the QB of my favorite football team. It bothers me that you desire to take away from that by ****ting all over the board in an attempt to make people take sides. I'm a Packer fan who was lucky to see Brett Favre. Now I'm excited to cheer for Aaron Rodgers. I'm grateful most Packer fans are more "intelligent," "rational," and "eloquent" than yourself.
Excellent post.
Maybe so, but not objective. It was missing four words that would pass the objectivity test. "CoP you are correct".
Evidently he is not blessed with the gift that few who bleed for the green and gold possess.
quote:Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:
who am I kidding, I can't stay mad at you.
quote:Originally posted by JJSD:quote:Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:
who am I kidding, I can't stay mad at you.
Best. Episode. Ever.
(Well, OK, it comes second to "Homer the Heretic")
quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Rodgers is a bright guy. Is that debatable?
From all appearances and information we have, yes, Rodgers is a bright football player.
quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Was Favre ever thought of in that regard? No.
Um, the no you state is your opinion... I recall Holmgren, Sherman, and McCarthy talking about Favre's intelligence as a football player.
quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:quote:Originally posted by Goalline:quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Elway, Favre and Marino do not.
Well, Elway wasn't very bright, after all, he went to Stanford.
I'm sure that was based on his academic abilities. No institution would lower it's standards to ever accommodate an athlete.
BTW...John Elway's Wonderlic was 29. Maybe, that explains his terrible TD/INT ratio?
Yes, 29 explains his terrible TD/INT ratio. Like the average attorney, Elway was a moron. Yes, Stanford may as well be Alabama. They let any dummy in if they can throw a football.
quote:Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
some others are able to be more objective than the rest of you.
more objective than the rest of you = agree more with my agenda.
What is quite possibly the most frustrating is this thread started out about AR. You turned it into an opportunity to call Favre dumb knowing it would derail the thread (again, its been your agenda for a long time). You set it up under the guise of AR is smarter than BF, but it is obvious that your intention was to find a reason to browbeat Favre. You'll likely dispute that, but every time a counter argument was made, you drew AR into the conversation, artificially creating a divide for "pick Brett or Pick Aaron." That is your agenda, not the agenda of this board.
What is sad is creating a controversy where there is none. Many here are sad to see a legend leave and many are excited for the upcoming season with a new QB. Those groups are not exclusive. To say that the members of this board do not recognize and label the flaws in Favre's game is also insulting, we've been doing it for years.
I for one consider myself lucky to have witnessed a hall of fame career from the QB of my favorite football team. It bothers me that you desire to take away from that by ****ting all over the board in an attempt to make people take sides. I'm a Packer fan who was lucky to see Brett Favre. Now I'm excited to cheer for Aaron Rodgers. I'm grateful most Packer fans are more "intelligent," "rational," and "eloquent" than yourself.
If you honestly believe I'm trying to "make you choose" then you countered your own argument against me. I already know how you feel about Favre. I don't expect that to ever change. Ever.
What amazes me is that you think I intentionally bring in Favre to cause issues. Uh, Aaron Rodgers is replacing Favre. I'm sure you've heard that. It is more than fair and expected to have Favre brought into ANY conversation about Rodgers and what he might bring to the table. THE ORIGINAL STORY was about Rodgers realizing he was REPLACING A LEGEND. Was the writer who penned that story trying to make you choose to by bringing Favre into his article?
I'm one of the few Packers fans who has wanted a change at QB for many years. I wanted it the second he gave that interview to Peter King about retirement. As you know, I think he disgraced himself and the game and our organization with his attitude the last few years. Staying away from practices and the like because he's Brett Favre is sad and not becoming of a leader. In his farewell presser he then claims he watched film after practice and went home late FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIS CAREER. So, the previous years he didn't do all he could to lead this team and be a better QB. He was embarrassed by the 2 seasons prior to his last and put the work in to have a great last season...then he quits because it was "too hard" on him. I don't understand why he's beloved for the shenanigans he's pulled in the latter stages of his career. I really don't.
My honest belief is he knew TT wanted Rodgers to be the starter... This pissed Brett off an he went out and played and studied his a$$ off so Rodgers wouldn't step right in and show him up. Now, he's set the bar high. 14-4 vs. the 8-8 and 4-12 was quite the improvement. Brett lacked the balls to comeback and do it again because I don't think he wanted to pay the price anymore.
So he's not only dumb, but he's also lazy, and he's a coward, too. Good you've reached the point where you're actually stating things rather than just insinuating them.
quote:Originally posted by Max:
So he's not only dumb, but he's also lazy, and he's a coward, too. Good you've reached the point where you're actually stating things rather than just insinuating them.
He sure is. Unreal. Just when you think he can't possibly get farther behind he continues to do so.
When this thread finally gets locked, please archive it.
Favre didn't ride your bike?
quote:
Shoot, I was a kid when the Favre era started.
Favre didn't ride your bike?
quote:Originally posted by Max:
So he's not only dumb, but he's also lazy, and he's a coward, too. Good you've reached the point where you're actually stating things rather than just insinuating them.
I consider you to be a smart poster, Max.
Tell me what you make of his statements in his retirement press conference about watching tape and going home late for the first time ever? What does that say to you?
Yes... I will say it. Brett Favre was my favorite athlete of all-time in the 90's. He was superhuman and put it all out there, or so I thought. I don't want to rehash something I said earlier about some things I heard about him while I was a member of the media. It just "makes people choose". I went from being his biggest supporter to one of his most vocal insignificant critics. All the respect I had for him over the first 10-12 years, I lost in the last ones. Some of his supporters continue assessing him the same way they did when he was winning MVP's.
I'll even say one more "inflammatory" thing about him. I think they should put an asterisk next to his streak. He played many of those first seasons on dope. If he didn't have Vicodin only God knows how many games he would've missed.
We all have different ways we assess people. Obviously, my assessments are way out there compared to the average Packer fan. I don't really mind that either. I do find it funny that so many think I'm trying to cause divides. These are my honest beliefs about him.
I just wish he had an opportunity to be subjected to the NY media or Philly media. He would've been skewered the last few years for his behavior. Good thing for him he was in little old Green Bay where they were so afraid to say something against him because they might be censored by Packers PR. I know this for a FACT. No speculation whatsoever. I used to talk to the Packers media guys. You guys haven't a clue about what goes on behind the scenes with your heroes. That isn't said smugly...it's the God's honest truth.
Quite frankly, I'm surprised this guy was involved in journalism at all.
"CoP, bring me my coffee, with cream and sugar."
"Here's your coffee."
"This isn't coffee, it's tea."
"Um, you asked for tea."
"The hell I did."
"Tea is better than coffee."
"Who gives a damn, I wanted coffee, bring me some damn coffee."
"As soon as I'm finished composing this letter to "Fight Club," I'll get you your tea."
In Blue....
In Green....
"CoP, bring me my coffee, with cream and sugar."
"Here's your coffee."
"This isn't coffee, it's tea."
"Um, you asked for tea."
"The hell I did."
"Tea is better than coffee."
"Who gives a damn, I wanted coffee, bring me some damn coffee."
"As soon as I'm finished composing this letter to "Fight Club," I'll get you your tea."
In Blue....
In Green....
quote:Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:
Quite frankly, I'm surprised this guy was involved in journalism at all.
"CoP, bring me my coffee, with cream and sugar."
"Here's your coffee."
"This isn't coffee, it's tea."
"Um, you asked for tea."
"The hell I did."
"Tea is better than coffee."
"Who gives a damn, I wanted coffee, bring me some damn coffee."
"As soon as I'm finished composing this letter to "Fight Club," I'll get you your tea."
In Blue....
In Green....
It wasn't journalism...not that it matters. It makes for some humorous material though.
quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Good thing for him he was in little old Green Bay where they were so afraid to say something against him because they might be censored by Packers PR. I know this for a FACT.
Prove it.
If nothing else, you've cemented your rightful place as x4's 2nd biggest blowhard of all time.
quote:Originally posted by Brak:quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Good thing for him he was in little old Green Bay where they were so afraid to say something against him because they might be censored by Packers PR. I know this for a FACT.
Prove it.
If nothing else, you've cemented your rightful place as x4's 2nd biggest blowhard of all time.
What do I have to do to be #1? And...Who is it?
Prove it? LMAO. Ok, I'm sure some of the guys I know who cover the Pack will let you call them so they can tell you that it's true.
You don't understand the media at all, Brak. I worked for KFAN in MPLS in the beginning of my career. We were the "Vikings" station. I also worked in "DENVER" for the non-Broncos station. ANY time a negative thing was said against the team a call came in from PR. If you said too many wrong things they'd stop allowing players to come on your shows.
I'll give you an example of media like the above that has nothing to do with Green Bay. I spoke with Ricky Watters while he was a member of the Seahawks about doing an interview. He told me that "nothing negative" could be discussed. An innocuous question was asked about his time in Philly and he hung up. I got a call from that moron who runs Seahawks PR and he cut our network off from all access to Seahawks players.
I called Jerry Jones at home one time and Rich Dalrymple who heads Cowboys PR tried to get me fired. He actually called my boss and insisted I get the axe.
You have no idea what control is put on the media. That is why I respect those who say unpopular things.
If you honestly believe Brett Favre wasn't a protected sacred cow in Green Bay you are sadly mistaken. You know how much could've been said about this guy that never was? Email all the guys and ask if there were things about Favre they would've liked to report but knew they couldn't.
quote:Brett lacked the balls to comeback
No sense speculating when it involves a personal criticism. It's one thing to criticize a guy for perceived diminished physical skills, it's quite another to character assassinate.
I am finding some of the content of your posts to be distasteful.
quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Prove it? LMAO.
Exactly. You can't go around going "FACT FACT FACT" when you simply cannot or will not prove what you say is true, and then not expect to hear about it.
quote:Originally posted by Hungry5:
When this thread finally gets locked, please archive it.
Mark it down!
quote:Originally posted by phaedrus:quote:Brett lacked the balls to comeback
No sense speculating when it involves a personal criticism. It's one thing to criticize a guy for perceived diminished physical skills, it's quite another to character assassinate.
I am finding some of the content of your posts to be distasteful.
Awwwww...... DAMMIT CoP, there goes one of your fans
It sure is nice to have a few fans. Ask MsPacman, she knows
quote:Originally posted by Boris:
It sure is nice to have a few fans. Ask MsPacman, she knows
quote:Originally posted by phaedrus:quote:Brett lacked the balls to comeback
No sense speculating when it involves a personal criticism. It's one thing to criticize a guy for perceived diminished physical skills, it's quite another to character assassinate.
I am finding some of the content of your posts to be distasteful.
I'm sorry you of all people find my words in poor taste.
You don't have to realize this, but it is different for me given my former line of work. I had access to information that most people do not. I'd be curious how you'd deal with such information. Would you just pretend you didn't know it and write words inconsistent with your true perception of the situation?
I feel I've been similar to Simon Cowell in how I've judged Brett Favre. I've only told the truth and I guess sometimes it's been a little too harsh, but it's still true nonetheless.
For the record, I've always criticized Brett for his character on this board. I've always contended it was pathetic to miss OTA's because of grad parties and for all the other reasons he missed them.
It is my true opinion he didn't have the balls to comeback. It was too much for him to put the hard work needed to have a season like last year. He said as much in his press conference. Re-listen to it. You say I do backflips in this thread...listen to that press conference and square it with the things he's been saying to Al Jones and David Letterman, etc.
Who are YOU to judge anyone?!?! At least Cowell works in the music industry, you fetched coffee for on-air personalities.
I will defer to your knowledge about 'balls' though, I'm sure you've had quite a few banging against your chin.
I will defer to your knowledge about 'balls' though, I'm sure you've had quite a few banging against your chin.
quote:It is my true opinion he didn't have the balls to comeback. It was too much for him to put the hard work needed to have a season like last year.
I guess I misunderstood what you meant by "lacking balls," but I think what you meant is a highly unusual take. I have never heard anyone else use the term in the way you have just used it.
lacking balls (my take) - cowardly, lacking in courage
lacking balls (your take?) - Not up to the hard work it takes to do something.
quote:Originally posted by Shoeless Joe:
Who are YOU to judge anyone?!?! At least Cowell works in the music industry, you fetched coffee for on-air personalities.
I will defer to your knowledge about 'balls' though, I'm sure you've had quite a few banging against your chin.
Now, now, Shoeless Joe... You posted that I was on your "Ignore List". Was that not the truth? Poor character.
I didn't fetch coffee...Well, not totally true...I did that as an intern before my career started. If you knew anything about media, you wouldn't be castigating my intelligence. I did quite well, actually. Ask Henry...He'll tell you about all those contact numbers in my garage.
quote:Originally posted by phaedrus:quote:It is my true opinion he didn't have the balls to comeback. It was too much for him to put the hard work needed to have a season like last year.
I guess I misunderstood what you meant by "lacking balls," but I think what you meant is a highly unusual take. I have never heard anyone else use the term in the way you have just used it.
lacking balls (my take) - cowardly, lacking in courage
lacking balls (your take?) - Not up to the hard work it takes to do something.
To be fair... I meant both of those definitions. Do you recall his infamous quote... "I'm not sure I want the ball in my hands with 2 minutes left on the clock"??? That is cowardly and more of the first definition.
I'm just glad he's gone and tried saying that. If others would leave it alone then I would. Let me say what I say and just ignore the things that ignite the passion for Brett Favre.
It's a new day with Aaron Rodgers and I hope under his different leadership style we see better on field results. I guess he needs to take us to the SuperBowl to do that.
quote:Originally posted by Brak:quote:Originally posted by Change of Possession:
Prove it? LMAO.
Exactly. You can't go around going "FACT FACT FACT" when you simply cannot or will not prove what you say is true, and then not expect to hear about it.
Brak, be objective, man. Facts are facts. Deal with it. FACT! I have a 25 inch penis.