Rodgers Wants A New Contract?

@Chongo posted:

We don't know everything. We think we know based on leaks, piecing together information, etc.

Both sides are trying to save face right now, and the mechanism is through leaks.

People want to assume 12 is the problem here...he's the diva and pulling the "don't you know who I am card."

But what about Gurt and WMM? Are they also not pulling the "don't you know who we are?" card and hiding behind the organization?

There's whole lotta dick-swingin' going on from both sides. It's getting old.

Amen brother.

@Herschel posted:

TBF he did draft a fair amount of zone corners when the defense was set up to play more man coverage and inside linebackers who couldn't run.

Brad Jones.

Barf.

@Grave Digger posted:

What’s clear, based on personnel moves over the last 3 off-seasons, is that Gute is giving his HC the team he wants. MLF wants this roster to be a run first, defensive team that doesn’t have to rely on the QB so heavily. Polar opposite of the McCarthy teams that relied so heavily on the QB. Whether this is the right direction or the wrong direction is TBD, again we need to see this group win without Rodgers before any judgements can be made.

I don't think there's any big revelation here.  Mayo is following McVay/Shanahan, which is fine.  The whole premise makes sense.  At the same time, it hasn't produced a Super Bowl.  The last two winners were a high flying passing offense with a solid enough defense and a monster defense (due to years of sucking but also FA) along with the addition of a HOF QB and other offensive FA.

On paper it's a great approach but the reality is the Packers defense isn't even in the same conversation as the Rams and SF.  This is my other problem with Gunt, I keep saying finish the job and he's throwing 5th round picks at finishing a defense that HAS TO be top level to make this work.  Doesn't matter if you brought in FAs, all good acquisitions, if you don't complete the project.  This can't be the same ol' "good nuf" Packers approach.  "Every team has holes", yep, and the ones that don't on defense generally go much further.  Add in a HOF QB that can cover up a lot of warts on offense and your chances just sky rocket (see Tampa).  Or look at those Steelers teams which had questionable olines, which for the record I couldn't fathom, but monster D's.  I'd have to look it up but I believe one of those Steelers teams won the Super Bowl.

People are frickin' fooling themselves if they think MVS is a legit #2.  Or thinking the run game doesn't benefit immensely from having Rodgers behind center.  Do you really think Jordan Love is going to take the heat off the run game unless he develops into something more than a game manager?  They believe he can.  Well, seeing is believing and they haven't seen shit yet with a "long way to go".

The Rams committing to Stafford is also another indication that this scheme still needs viable QBs, if not above average QBs to win.  This isn't an auto pilot system where they figured out how to eliminate the need for QBs.  The Ravens won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer because their defense was HOF caliber and Jamal Lewis was a fucking beast.  I don't know what would be harder, finding a 3rd MVP caliber QB or putting together that kind of defense again.

So on paper it makes total sense.  Drafting Love in that scenario makes total sense.  Again, that shows more of a commitment towards "building for the future" than trying to win now.  Add in the completely inept approach of alienating your HOF QB and setting a plan in motion to likely move on after 2021 until your hand is forced by your current pissed off HOF QB and all the future machinations for a theoretical on paper vs. the literal HOF bird in hand is beyond baffling.   

Pick a lane.  That choice just got exponentially harder because the FO couldn't control the situation.

@Steve of Norway posted:

Fine draft picks, considering Bulaga was the only 1st rounder. But tell me about the Neal and Datone Jones experiments. And Randall and Rollins. How about Sherrod and Jerel Worthy? All high picks too btw..can’t forget Harrell, but Kenny Clark more than negated that one.

Again, was never anti Ted, he would still find gems in the draft, but he insisted on drafting guys and assuming Campen,Whitt, Greene and Perry to polish these guys. Sometimes they did wonders, others didn’t pan out.

Just saying Gute is working more with MLF for his offense since it’s not hero ball anymore.

So you mean misses like every other GM, GM's like Russ Ball who really aren't GMs but were making personnel decisions at the end of TT's run?  One of the reasons he put his hat in the GM search in the first place? 

Couldn't be that. 

In fact, at the beginning of McVince's coaching career he tried to go with some schlock hybrid ZBS, which led to TT drafting a bunch of converted TE oline who washed out.  It wasn't until he started drafting real, proven olinemen that the oline improved dramatically.  I mean if TT was forcing, you know, olinemen on Campen to shape into olinemen it must of been a real struggle for Cogbot.

The funny thing about being a coach is that's exactly what their job is, to polish players.  Was Shields, a converted WR, a challenge?  Should any coach actually be on a coaching staff if they're so inconvenienced? 

Hero ball.  I'll just let that sit there.

@Goalline posted:

Right? Yet, the ball washers want to know why he would pay Aaron Jones or why he took a RB in the second round last year.  The cognitive dissonance around here.

You mean those guys that play on defense?  I agree, total cognitive dissonance when people state the obvious of needing a strong defense in this system yet does little to nothing to fill the cavern in the middle of the defense.

@Henry posted:

So you mean misses like every other GM, GM's like Russ Ball who really aren't GMs but were making personnel decisions at the end of TT's run?  One of the reasons he put his hat in the GM search in the first place?

Couldn't be that.

In fact, at the beginning of McVince's coaching career he tried to go with some schlock hybrid ZBS, which led to TT drafting a bunch of converted TE oline who washed out.  It wasn't until he started drafting real, proven olinemen that the oline improved dramatically.  I mean if TT was forcing, you know, olinemen on Campen to shape into olinemen it must of been a real struggle for Cogbot.

The funny thing about being a coach is that's exactly what their job is, to polish players.  Was Shields, a converted WR, a challenge?  Should any coach actually be on a coaching staff if they're so inconvenienced?

Hero ball.  I'll just let that sit there.

By all means, let it sit there, but that’s what you can call it when the play breaks down and Rodgers was scrambling for his life and the receivers, who practiced this, would break their routes to get open. That and drawing guys off side and getting defensive players trying to get off the field was the McCarthy/Rodgers bread and butter for years. It’s fun to watch but nerve wracking.

The "let Aaron handle it" philosophy.

I just want to make sure the analogy isn't how Rodgers doesn't fit into the current offense.  That would be just silly right?

Again, for the record.  Get the picks, move on.  This bird is cooked.

@Steve of Norway posted:

Fine draft picks, considering Bulaga was the only 1st rounder. But tell me about the Neal and Datone Jones experiments. And Randall and Rollins. How about Sherrod and Jerel Worthy? All high picks too btw..can’t forget Harrell, but Kenny Clark more than negated that one.

Again, was never anti Ted, he would still find gems in the draft, but he insisted on drafting guys and assuming Campen,Whitt, Greene and Perry to polish these guys. Sometimes they did wonders, others didn’t pan out.

Just saying Gute is working more with MLF for his offense since it’s not hero ball anymore.

He was a great GM, but far from perfect. Show me the perfect man. Well?

Meanwhile, in Denver ...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story...s-qb-job-tune-rumors

@Henry posted:

I don't think there's any big revelation here.  Mayo is following McVay/Shanahan, which is fine.  The whole premise makes sense.  At the same time, it hasn't produced a Super Bowl.  The last two winners were a high flying passing offense with a solid enough defense and a monster defense (due to years of sucking but also FA) along with the addition of a HOF QB and other offensive FA.

On paper it's a great approach but the reality is the Packers defense isn't even in the same conversation as the Rams and SF.  This is my other problem with Gunt, I keep saying finish the job and he's throwing 5th round picks at finishing a defense that HAS TO be top level to make this work.  Doesn't matter if you brought in FAs, all good acquisitions, if you don't complete the project.  This can't be the same ol' "good nuf" Packers approach.  "Every team has holes", yep, and the ones that don't on defense generally go much further.  Add in a HOF QB that can cover up a lot of warts on offense and your chances just sky rocket (see Tampa).  Or look at those Steelers teams which had questionable olines, which for the record I couldn't fathom, but monster D's.  I'd have to look it up but I believe one of those Steelers teams won the Super Bowl.

People are frickin' fooling themselves if they think MVS is a legit #2.  Or thinking the run game doesn't benefit immensely from having Rodgers behind center.  Do you really think Jordan Love is going to take the heat off the run game unless he develops into something more than a game manager?  They believe he can.  Well, seeing is believing and they haven't seen shit yet with a "long way to go".

The Rams committing to Stafford is also another indication that this scheme still needs viable QBs, if not above average QBs to win.  This isn't an auto pilot system where they figured out how to eliminate the need for QBs.  The Ravens won a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer because their defense was HOF caliber and Jamal Lewis was a fucking beast.  I don't know what would be harder, finding a 3rd MVP caliber QB or putting together that kind of defense again.

So on paper it makes total sense.  Drafting Love in that scenario makes total sense.  Again, that shows more of a commitment towards "building for the future" than trying to win now.  Add in the completely inept approach of alienating your HOF QB and setting a plan in motion to likely move on after 2021 until your hand is forced by your current pissed off HOF QB and all the future machinations for a theoretical on paper vs. the literal HOF bird in hand is beyond baffling.   

Pick a lane.  That choice just got exponentially harder because the FO couldn't control the situation.

AFA the last 2 SB winners, it's not been high flying offenses that won those games as Brady and Mahomes combined for <500 yards passing. It was truly OLine and defense that stole the show and pounded their opponents into submission. It's having a reliable defense that allows you to stay balanced on offense. That's not new though, that's been the case forever basically, what is different now is being able to win with a QB on a rookie contract instead of being hamstrung by a bloated cap figure. Mahomes, Wentz, Wilson all on rookie deals and Brady his historically kept his cap figure pretty manageable which allows for extra resources elsewhere. You look at what GB is staring down the barrel of, it's pouring big money (DBak, ZSmith, PSmith, KC) and high draft picks (Myers, Jenkins, Gary) into the front 7 with other resources going into RB (big money to Jones, high pick Dillon) and TE (Deguera, Stern)...I mean hell literally almost half of our draft picks (12/26) from '19 to '21 have been OL and DL (including Edge). I mean in 2022 GB will gain $22M from not having Rodgers on the roster, imagine what that could buy, could extend Jaire, buy another starting CB, another starting DL, etc.

I think you're getting hung up in the idea that "QB doesn't matter", which isn't true. No system can turn Brett Hundley into Aaron Rodgers, even Kyle Shannahan, the QB guru, hasn't been able to just plug anyone in. Part of Aaron Rodgers MVP season though, was the elite running game and a passing scheme that moved the QB and everyone else around to find easy openings. Rodgers probably saw more open receivers than he ever has in his career. If Love has the talent to be a franchise QB then walking into this scheme with this personnel should make life a lot easier on him. Like you said though, that's no revelation, but it is a driver for why I don't think GB is probably freaking out about life after Rodgers. I think the alienation probably came from a similar idea to McCarthy's "we're going with Aaron" conversation with Favre in 2008. GB wants Aaron Rodgers to be in GB, they don't think they need Aaron Rodgers like they have in the past and that removes some of the leverage that Rodgers has maintained for a decade. They need Rodgers to win a SB tomorrow, but next year, who knows? Probably, but there will come a point where GB doesn't need Rodgers anymore.

It's total speculation and usually don't post Florio content but this is actually an interesting take - Retire in 2021, return in 2022. 

This is as likely as any scenario I've seen so far and I would not put it past Rodgers. He really seems to be enjoying life outside of football right now so a year off isn't that crazy. And if he really wants out of Green bay, he could easily adopt the Favre method - retire then show up when the team has all but moved on.  Then a trade would have to happen. 

He fails to address the massive signing bonus that AR would have to return. It is an interesting take, I just don't see it as very likely.

I think he'd return $11m of the signing bonus and he'd miss his 2021 salary but then if he comes back, he'd step right back in to his contract.  Or, does he just "hold out", pay fines and then in 2021, step right back into his contract as if it didn't toll?  Not 100% sure what would happen. 

Not sure, but I would think if he retires he's obligated to return the entire remaining signing bonus ($33 million is the number I've seen). That's a much bigger hit than just losing 500K for having fun in Hawaii.

I think he returns the pro  rated signing bonus for each year of his contract, he would return 11 mil for this year I believe at the end of the season, 11 mil at seasons end next season and so on

It's all a Beautiful Mystery.

I heard that somewhere.

I think he only has to return the prorated SB IF he stays retired. If he's active and traded then GB gets hit with that figure whether he's on the team or not. So if he retires in 2021 he has to pay back his $11.5M SB and forfeits his $14.7M salary and $850K in incentives (just north of $27M GB would get back in cap space). GB still gets charged basically $9.6M in stuff already charged or stuff pushed from previous years. If he unretires and is traded in 2022, then his $11.5M prorated SB charge hits GB again plus about $3M in restructure pushed from previous years. GB would basically be shove his salary $25M and workout bonus ($500K) on to the next team. We owe nothing but $3M in restructure from previous years in 2023. So basically, in this scenario, GB goes from $150.4M in cap hits over '21-'23 to basically $27.1M in cap hit over that same time frame. GB could ostensibly restructure his deal without him to spread that hurt evenly to maximize cap space.

@Goalline posted:

He was a great GM, but far from perfect. Show me the perfect man. Well?

@Fedya posted:

I think he'd sooner pull a Favre than sit out an entire season. I think much of the reason he's using his leverage now is because he's fully aware how valuable his remaining time has become. To him. He wanted the Packers to shit or get off the pot, which means every snap he takes is of premium value.

I think his stubborn/competitive nature might make him seriously consider sitting out the year, but his legacy and career numbers are just as important as well as opportunities to snag another ring. Gotta say it would be poetic for all the wrong reasons if he were to crash the party at Family Night.

The whole retire idea assumes he doesn't want to play in GB for his entire career, and we have on record that he wants to be a Packer. So, retire, but come back to GB under the current contract? That makes little to no sense from what we've heard from Rodgers.

Assuming he retired only to return and was banking on the Packers being ready to move on... that's a big risk at 39yo. He's still under contract and at the mercy of the Packers for where he'd play for at least '22. Also, what if after the '21 season Love shows he isn't ready or has a significant injury? Wouldn't it be in the Packers best interest to have even a 39yo Rodgers be QB1 in '22?

Gutekunst wants to win football games, people may not agree or understand the moves he makes to support that objective, but the objective remains.

@artis posted:

I think he'd sooner pull a Favre than sit out an entire season. I think much of the reason he's using his leverage now is because he's fully aware how valuable his remaining time has become. To him. He wanted the Packers to shit or get off the pot, which means every snap he takes is of premium value.

I think his stubborn/competitive nature might make him seriously consider sitting out the year, but his legacy and career numbers are just as important as well as opportunities to snag another ring. Gotta say it would be poetic for all the wrong reasons if he were to crash the party at Family Night.

I see the actor dude he is hanging out with in Hawaii just posted a pic with a drink that said: "cheers to signing with the Packers". I guess we'll see if it means anything....

Cheers to signing with the Packers pic.twitter.com/XX8sGc1BY4

— Miles Teller (@Miles_Teller) May 28, 2021

Post was a yesterday...I'm sure if 12 signed some sort of extension the Packers propaganda machine would have put out a presser tout suite to end this drama.

Just saw that as well.  No other real news on it though.

From comments: Miles is an Eagle fan. He’s trolling….The Packers have signed WR DeAndre Thompkins. General Manager Brian Gutekunst announced the transaction Wednesday. Thompkins is a 5-foot-11, 188-pound. He was originally signed as an undrafted free agent by the Philadelphia Eagles.

Found on the internet: I think EA is hiding the cover of Madden 22 because it’s supposed to be Aaron Rodgers, and they have no clue what to do

@Fedya posted:

Perfectly annoying.😉

I just bet the Denver Broncos to win the Super Bowl

That should put an end to all this bullshit.

Fucking 68 pages based on zero source confirmed by Schefter.

How many pages without the Henry factor?

67

@Boris posted:

I just bet the Denver Broncos to win the Super Bowl

That should put an end to all this bullshit.

Fucking 68 pages based on zero source confirmed by Schefter.

We could go back to going for 2 in Arizona. 

@Packiderm posted:

67

69😉

@GBFanForLife posted:

How many pages without the Henry factor?

@Goalline posted:

69😉

I see what you did there!

Everybody did. Goalline is about as subtle as a Henry post on Gutekunst.