So......how we feeling so far???

About what?

Like I was standing on the freeway & just got hit by 1,000 fully loaded gasoline trucks. 

About ready to inject bleach and sunlight 

It’s a new day another few rounds of draft picks......so how are we feeling so far about all the new Packers???  

I am feeling like every pundit is full of crap, because nobody knows what the packers need better than them - and thus, there is no need to watch anymore.  All those top 50 lists or whatever it's all irrelevant to the packers.  or they are 'the smartest guys in the room' and 'we'll show them' - until the logical, just pick it move is no longer the smart move...because 'we' know best.  so ya, i am feeling a little pissed and frustrated that we 'were' 1 game from the sb and now i feel like 6-10...I want to feel like we are getting better, and what i see so far, they are not really better where we needed it; again...maybe those were reaches, or whatever but that first round pick really soured me.

and for our cap situation and how this team relies on the draft to get better NOW, I feel like they are using it as their 'lab' to see what happens, and maybe they can be this or we can turn them into that...when the right player 'was' staring them right in the face...

I'm lost.

Are we drafting for a better scout team this year?

Free Agency is the price paid for drafting poorly. 

If the Packers drafted....

1) Patrick Queen

2) Josh Jones

3) Devin Duvernay (trade up a couple slots by using a 5th or 6th or both)

Those 3 players might all be busts but I would feel a lot better about this years draft. 

Vikings hack into the Packer computers and change picks as sent to Goodell?

Gutekunst drunk?

Packers know NFL is going out of business and decide to screw with fans?

I’m currently in a coma and having hallucinations?

God hates me?

See, there are lots of explanations for this draft.

None of which are making me feel any better. 

Feeling like Gute needs to have a HOF Day 3 combined with another very successful season to save his job. 3 drafts have thus far yielded literally only 2 quality contributors (Jaire, Jenkins), which likely won’t change in 2020. We could see contributions from Savage, Gary and Stern, but even 5 isn’t a great yield from 3 drafts and everyone else will be buried on the depth chart or is already a disappointment. Bad drafting is becoming a trend unfortunately. He will need to make some moves and dip into free agency.

MLF seems to have done a good job with the lockerroom and changing the culture, but when you’re given backup QBs and Richard Rodgers 2.0 its kind of tricky to repeat a special season. 

@Boris posted:

If the Packers drafted....

1) Patrick Queen

2) Josh Jones

3) Devin Duvernay 

Even if we swap Queen & take Love, I'd still be happy if this was the draft 

1) Patrick Queen Jordan Love

2) Josh Jones

3) Devin Duvernay

It feels like a Browns or Bengals or Viking or Raider draft when Al Davis was alive. Everyone would always laugh at their drafts. 

Now Green Bay is the laughingstock. 

Maybe the Packers are tanking the season to get Trevor Lawrence next year. You know....just in case Love doesn't work out. 

Completely unimpressed with Gute overall.  I enjoyed what he did last year in FA getting the Smith brothers and Amos.  Everything else has sucked. 

His drafts had been pedestrian at best prior to this year.  The 2020 draft is a complete bust.  The only pick I really like is Dillon, but not in R2.  The TE taken is a complete joke in R3.  Love?  Not that he isn't worth a R1 pick... I just don't think GB needed to burn their first pick on a QB in 2020.  

There are so many other needs for GB and we haven't addressed a damn one of them.  So now we go into day 3 with no 4th round pick to start the day off.

GB's President and GM should be seeking new employment in a year or two.

This is fucking terrible.  There's no other way to say it. 

I'll say this much, they're going all in on a specific offense, which is fine.  Just wish they weren't relying on Lowry, Lancaster and Adams.  Yuck.

Not just the DL....what about the OL? 

Did he forget we lost Bulaga?!?! I don't think Rick Wagner is going to cut the mustard

@Henry posted:

I'll say this much, they're going all in on a specific offense, which is fine.  Just wish they weren't relying on Lowry, Lancaster and Adams.  Yuck.

Yeah especially when some fool off the street rushes for over 200 yards on us in a championship game.

More than most fans at least.

All have shown flashes at times. Which ones take the next step this year?

@Boris posted:

Not just the DL....what about the OL? 

Did he forget we lost Bulaga?!?! I don't think Rick Wagner is going to cut the mustard

To be fair, Shannahan ZBS has made stars out of lesser players than Rick Wagner. 

Maybe they think the new WR coach can get more out of this group than the last one did? That’s all I can think.

At some point, it's not about coaching... it's about the individual talent, his desire to be the best and improve, heart and competitive toughness.  That needs to come internally within each player.  If these guys need a coach at this level to push them in that direction, they have already lost the battle. 

Maybe, but we have 3 gifted physical talents in Lazard, MVS, and EQS who are very young. Adams seems like a good mentor, but based on how things ended with the WR coach maybe there were some serious culture issues in the WR room.

Hard to be excited about this.  I will give Gute the benefit of the doubt on Love.   Clearly a pick for the future and it's never a bad idea to start developing your QB of the future when your current QB is late 30s. 

But this team had two major holes on their team - run defense and pass catchers.  They have done nothing in free agency or the draft to fix these.  In reality, both got worse because you lost Martinez and Graham and replaced with lesser players.  This team is worse now than they were a year ago.  

This is how I, and Brian Gutekunst, feel.

It's like a colonoscopy with no sedation, or even lubrication. Just shove the camera in, wiggle it around and capture whatever randomly appears.

I think there's a few things I'm thinking with all angst and hyperbole aside. 

1. MLF and Gute have decided to "zag" while everyone else is "zigging" and become the Tennessee Titans. Run heavy. Ball Control. Less reliant on constant slinging the ball around and a "star" QB. The argument can be made that this is the current market inefficiency. While NFL defenses get smaller and faster to try and stop the pass, smashing people in the mouth is undervalued as shown by the Titans, and GB is moving that way.

Hence basically nothing done in FA to address WR. Hence a bowling ball of a RB that people want to be the next Derrick Henry in Round 2. Hence a TE that is thought to be a very good blocker and competitor.

2. Aaron Rodgers will not be a Packer in September 2022. He has an out after the 2021 season that will allow the Packers to get out of the deal and save nearly $40 million in cap space while paying only $17.2 million in dead cap. Maybe he's truly an enormous asshole. Maybe the staff continues to look at film and think over and over "there were guys open and he just isn't seeing things anymore or he won't for some reason." Maybe they think he's continually playing his way and not at all playing within the system. Maybe they just would rather have a "good enough" QB and spend on Defense and OL. 

Hence they aren't trying to find him weapons. Hence drafting a QB in the first round that HAS to be the starter by year 3. Hence nothing that looks like they are going "all in"

3. Gutekunst believes that nothing they could have done this offseason puts themselves in a position to legit compete with the Niners. Yes, they went 13-3. Yes they made the NFCC. But as anyone with eyes knows, the Packers were not in the same ballpark as SF. SF kicked their asses up and down the field on both sides of the ball. They passed at will when they wanted. They ran at will when they wanted. They held our offense down. So, Gute has come to believe that filling a couple of the many holes with average FAs or rookies wasn't going to change that. Gutekunst is being realistic and they aren't going to beat SF in 2020. Now add in *waves hands wildly* all this, and maybe there's not even a 2020 season.  So, bail on 2020 without trying to be the Dolphins, and hunker down and retool for 2021 and beyond.

Hence no FA moves of note. Hence no drafting for what fans think is a need. Hence no let's "go all in since we have Rodgers."

4. Gutekunst is a goddamned idiot. His first 2+ drafts have been woeful at best in terms of production. He made some nice moves in FA last year on D, but outside of that? After last off season, it felt like, finally, we have a GM that doesn't all take all but one of the bullets out the gun. This offseason that thought has been lost. And he's fallen right back in to the worst traits of Thompson - Inside Linebackers are meaningless and simply require a warm body. WRs are nothing to spend money or high draft picks on.  He gives a player a $130M contract that makes it challenging to wildly spend at other spots (but even that's kinda BS as NO/NE/others make it work all the time) and then months later drafts his replacement in a move that makes it almost a certainty that the player will be gone sooner rather than later.

Hence all this.

But at the end what I think is.

• GB has waved the white flag on 2020. If the season happens, they know they are not in the same league as SF and aren't going to panic sign/draft guys that don't change that. If the season doesn't happen...
• Aaron Rodgers and the Packers will part ways after 2021 season. MLF and Gute see Tennessee in the AFCC with Tannehill and a power running game. So they think Green Bay can with Jordan Love and AJ Dillon. 
• And, this plan better work. Gutekunst is going to look like the dumbest mofo in the world if the defense still sucks, Jordan Love is bad, AJ Dillon is just another dime a dozen RB, and topping that all off is that Rodgers goes somewhere else, looks like the AR of 2014, and wins 1-2 more super bowls with a stud WR that leads everyone to be "SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GET A GOOD WR????"

Timpranillo - good post for further discussion. 

The one thing he had going for him when he arrived was that many TT's draft picks from the middle of the 2010s were so bad the Packers didn't need to spend big money to extend guys into their second contracts. 2015 was one of the worst drafts in team history. 2016 basically netted Kenny Clark. Couple that with the fact that TT didn't extend a couple of guys he should have (Casey Hayward and MIcah Hyde) and Gute had a lot more money to play with in free agency than most GMs did in 2019. He hit home runs last year in FA with the Smiths (and Amos was decent too). 

If they are thinking to wave the white flag for 2020 because they can't compete with SF, they should fire Gute and MFL right now. I can't believe that any coach and GM coming off a 13-3 season and a title game appearance with almost every important player coming back wouldn't be all in. Instead, we downgrade at RT and draft 3 guys at the top of the draft that won't even start. 

Gutekunst's draft really suck the joy out of following it. He seems to have numerous TT bad habits. This feels like the NFC Champioship Game run with Favre or the 2015 run where he decided to just say "eff-it" and not build on it. 

Sanguine.

 If you're drafting for immediate need you'd better be picking top 5 (more likely 1 or 2). You don't get sure thing players at 26 or 30. In the last 20 years (2000-2019) only 28 of the 100 players picked between 26 and 30 have made the  pro bowl. Of those, 12 made more than 2 appearances (including C Patterson as returner only).

If you're drafting BPA- the guy with the best combination of skill, youth and potential- you might as well do it at every draft spot. Use free agency to fill your 'holes' with proven NFL players. You're not going to get better at those positions but a draftee most likely won't make you better in the short term either (unless you were truly awful to start)

As far as the talking heads saying "So n' So isn't worth this draft position: the teams  likely have access to video of every play since that player's freshman high school season. They have positional experts available to assess that video. They have pro day workouts. They have private workouts. They have interviews by multiple people with multiple people. They have full scope medical exams.

I'm taking their assessment over those who watched a few minutes of hi lite reel or a game of all 22.

We have the ‘combine underwear Olympic’ and the ‘who won the draft’ ratings. And we seem to focus only on San Francisco. But games are won in Sep -Dec.  We always maintain we have to win our division first. Anyone think the Vikings, bears, or lions have passed us?  Yes, we will have a tougher 1st place schedule this fall (if there is football) and probably won’t win 13. But I see no reason to think we won’t win our division again.  We won a lot of close games last year which coaching should get some credit for.  Have we narrowed the gap to SF?  No.  But the sky isn’t falling either. 

Agree it appears to be a transition into MLF's preferred running offense.  Success of the draft will ultimately hinge on whether Love pans out or not. 

One of the essential criticisms of Ted Thompson was his philosophy ran counter to the coaching. Mike McCarthy wanted more veterans. So did Dom Capers.

For all the criticisms I have of this draft, GM and coach are on the same page. This is a Matt LaFleur draft all the way.

— Peter Bukowski (@Peter_Bukowski) April 25, 2020

@grignon posted:

 

If you're drafting BPA- the guy with the best combination of skill, youth and potential- you might as well do it at every draft spot. Use free agency to fill your 'holes' with proven NFL players. You're not going to get better at those positions but a draftee most likely won't make you better in the short term either (unless you were truly awful to start)

 

When they draft that shitty, there isn't cap space to fill the holes. I was cool with Love, but the longer this draft goes on, the more I hate it and Gutekunst. 

@Timpranillo posted:

• "SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GET A GOOD WR????"

Already saying it.  Mailing in the rest of Rodgers career in Green Bay.

Or the second year of Mayo's tenure shows players getting more comfortable with the scheme.  Either way there is a gaping hole at WR and a couple more 5th and 6th round picks along with 3rd tier FA's isn't going to cut it.  Pretty sure Rodgers could be the Tannehill on steroids but they are ignoring the potential lethality of the offense.  Hope them WR block real good.

I'm feeling like this may be one of the top 3 worst drafts by packers since I became a fan around 1970.

Oh there's no doubt......far & away worst draft since Braatz & Mandarich in '89

If there is a season....and you want easy money. Bet the under on total wins. Line is (9.5).

This team is no way winning more than 9 games

But, but, but.... Aaron Rodgers.  

Yea ok... 8-8 tops. 

@RochNyFan posted:

I'm feeling like this may be one of the top 3 worst drafts by packers since I became a fan around 1970.

We'll have to wait to see if it ends up as bad as 2015, 16, 18 etc., just to name a few of our other recent stellar drafts.

We're on a hell of a bad streak of drafting that's slowly killing this team.

Im feeling a little better with those last 3 big fatties on the O Line.

another big fattie from Washington is still sitting there, Trey Adams 

AND THAT’S IT RIGHT???      

This draft is probably the worst if rated the day after.  I don't see how any draft can worse than 2001 though.  A massive bust with the 10th pick, zero starters and two below average backups.  Just wow.  

Dang, take a look at the 2001-2004 drafts.  That may be as bad a four year draft as you'll find.