To me, the FA spending set a course of 'we are going to go for it now' - this runs 180 deg counter to that. that's the frustration. why dole out all that cabbage if there isn't a chance in their minds. and yes, if they don't believe that they can beat the best NFC team any given day, after being that close, they both should be fired, right now. pick a lane and stick to it. this is smertest guy in the room shit that will get them fired in a couple years. and they extended rodgers to boot, so they are pissing money away if they decide to give him up after 2022. that's idiotic management right there. oh, and in the deepest class of wr's seen by man, they took exactly, how many wr's again? come on, we aren't saying we are as smert as them, but give us a break. we saw the team last year. nobody was playing at a high level except for 17.
During the draft, one of the questions I had was "How are we going to stop the run?" Another was "When will we give Rodgers some weapons?". I'm still asking these questions and there are, apparently, no answers to them coming from 1265.
I'm in the wait-and-see mode (for several years). A boom-or-bust draft by the GM that will demand accountability if it's the latter.
So, everyone thinks they're smarter than the coach and The GM of the Packers? You know, the ones who have spent their entire lives in the business? The ones who actually get paid to do what they do? The draft isn't what we wanted, but it is what they wanted. I'll trust their plan until there is reason not to. If the plan is to totally change the offensive scheme I am OK with it. Unlike others I don't think the team was anywhere as good as their record last year.
@Troy posted:So, everyone thinks they're smarter than the coach and The GM of the Packers? You know, the ones who have spent their entire lives in the business? The ones who actually get paid to do what they do? The draft isn't what we wanted, but it is what they wanted. I'll trust their plan until there is reason not to. If the plan is to totally change the offensive scheme I am OK with it. Unlike others I don't think the team was anywhere as good as their record last year.
So, you think these picks Gute made are an improvement? I think Dillon will replace Williams at RB. The only improvement there is that the rookie will be cheaper than the vet, until the rookie can show he can play better than the vet did.
This draft sucked and there's little question about that IMO. However, I do think Dillon is going to add a dimension to the offense not seen since Lacy. Dillon is a battering ram and should vastly improve short yardage/goal line situations for GB.
Posted this in the other thread too
No, I don't think us fans are smerter than the brain trust at 1265. But I can 100% guarantee you that 3rd round pick was a reach due to the fact they didn't have a 4th round pick brought on by the trade up for the QB.
It's a domino effect.
However I will say the Niners were linked to DeGaura in round 5 AND they did draft a TE in round 5 just as Matt Maiocco predicted. Matt predicted the Niners would take DeGaura in round 5.
It sure would have been nice to trade down a little into early to mid round 4, grab another selection & STILL get your guy (DeGaura) before the Niners grabbed him.
OR!
Trade up in round 3 a couple spots to grab Duvernay in front of the Ravens.
Players I'll be watching who the Packers could've had but decided to draft for the future instead.
Patrick Queen LB / Josh Jones OT / Duvernay WR.
....oh and just an FYI....the Ravens have drafted 3 LB'rs in the first round since 1995
Ray Lewis / CJ Moseley / Patrick Queen
So when us fans get pissed off about not drafting Queen we have every right to be pissed since the Ravens took Queen in the first round. He's going to be a great LB'r in the NFL & I don't have to be a "professional" GM to know that.
Attachments
When you draft #30 it's tough to have a great draft, but the 1st two days were filled with reaches and the QB has a higher bust potential than you'd like.
Day 3 felt better, but it's day 3 and every guy you pick at that point has major question marks. There are intruiging prospects, but every other team feels the same way about their day 3 picks as well.
If Dillon turns out to be a Josh Jacobs/Derrick Henry type runner and Love turns out to be the real deal, we'll all feel better about the draft 3 years down the road.
@Troy posted:So, everyone thinks they're smarter than the coach and The GM of the Packers? You know, the ones who have spent their entire lives in the business? The ones who actually get paid to do what they do? The draft isn't what we wanted, but it is what they wanted. I'll trust their plan until there is reason not to. If the plan is to totally change the offensive scheme I am OK with it. Unlike others I don't think the team was anywhere as good as their record last year.
guess you were perfectly happy with G&G in the 80's?
@pkr_north posted:guess you were perfectly happy with G&G in the 80's?
No, that was horrible. I just think we are in the process of transitioning into the next era of the Green Bay Packers. They realize there are too many holes to fill to get them anywhere near the Chiefs and 49ers. Instead of "going for it for Rodgers" they are setting the team up to compete in the future. I'm OK with it.
I said it before and I'll say it again. Their plan could plain old suck, but we don't know that now.
I am totally shocked by this draft !!! Expected getting some A list players to help this team to be able to "Win it All" within 2 years. Forgetaboutit!!! I thought the last GM had lost his ability to select NFL starters the last 5 years of picking players!!! This ??? draft kills any chance to help Rodgers win another SB in Green Bay. I wonder how long til' there's a change in management in Green Bay.
I’m a fan of the GB Packers. I admit I know nothing about the players we drafted. I saw a few of them play in college, but I don’t know how to evaluate them for the next level. I know names of players because of all the supposed “draft experts” who post incessantly from January til Thursday. I’m content to wait 2-3 years to evaluate these drafted players.
I think this draft is more a referendum on MLF than Gutey. As has been discussed earlier, TT always drafted who he thought was the best player, regardless of what MM wanted. I think this draft is a reflection of what MLF wants to do. Gutey gave him players that fit what he wanted. Now it’s up to MLF to teach and coach them.
Gute and Lafleur brought us one game from the Superbowl after a rapid decline under TT and MM. Let's see where we land at the end of the year. I am shocked by much of this draft but I am a real estate developer, not an astute player personnel evaluator.
@Troy posted:So, everyone thinks they're smarter than the coach and The GM of the Packers? You know, the ones who have spent their entire lives in the business? The ones who actually get paid to do what they do? The draft isn't what we wanted, but it is what they wanted. I'll trust their plan until there is reason not to. If the plan is to totally change the offensive scheme I am OK with it. Unlike others I don't think the team was anywhere as good as their record last year.
You don't have to be "smarter" than the GM to know his ability to draft is questionable.
He drafted 19 players in his first two years of drafting, resulting in two good players (Alexander, Jenkins), a starter (Savage), a punter and a long snapper. The need positions of WR, ILB and CB he attempted to address and has failed, including using high picks to draft busts at CB (Jackson) and ILB (Burks).
While the draft is a crapshoot, your 1-3 picks should be regular players, even if they aren't stars. The #2 and #3 picks from his first draft (Burks and Jackson) are so bad they not only don't they start, they rarely see the field as backups and Jackson was nactive multiple games. Gary hardly played last year as the #1 pick.
.I understand they are "paid to do what they do," but the drafting results of Gute to date has given plenty of reason to believe he lacks the skillset to pick quality players.
@Troy posted:So, everyone thinks they're smarter than the coach and The GM of the Packers? You know, the ones who have spent their entire lives in the business? The ones who actually get paid to do what they do? The draft isn't what we wanted, but it is what they wanted. I'll trust their plan until there is reason not to. If the plan is to totally change the offensive scheme I am OK with it. Unlike others I don't think the team was anywhere as good as their record last year.
One doesn’t have to be the smartest guy in the room to see that we lost out on a chance to get to only our fourth Super Bowl in the last (almost) three decades with two of the greatest quarterbacks in history, because we couldn’t stop a backup running back from destroying us. And a year later, from a roster impact standpoint, after free agency, and after the draft, I can’t say we’ve even taken a baby step forward to improve on our run defense.
Forget the offense for a second. Stopping the run is pretty important in the NFL, especially late in the year when playing outdoors, and inclement weather makes teams run more. Remind me where we play in November, December and January again?
This whole “the cards just didn’t fall right” excuse is utter crap. This may have been the deepest receiving draft in history. We have one-one-proven star receiver, and he missed a quarter of the season injured. Logic dictates that you take at least one new player to infuse some new blood into the mix. We took exactly zero. The whole “we like the group we have” line also rings hollow. When Adams went down, plenty of guys, all in their second year or later, were given the opportunity to stand up. MVS looked like he was playing out Monty Python’s “How to Become Invisible” skit. He literally disappeared for half a season. He caught 46% of the passes tossed his way. When he catches and holds on to the ball, great. But he spent more time on the side of milk cartons with a “have you seen me?” sign than he did on the field.
We could have gotten Dillon in the third. And did we really need a second third round tight end in two years?
I’ve come in from the ledge. I understand the direction they’re going. MLF thinks Dillon is Derrick Henry v 2.0. Ok, great. But suddenly, after going nuts in free agency, upgrading the pass rush and safety, which sure seems as a “win now” approach, now you start drafting for the future?
Maybe we overachieved, and weren’t a true 13-3 team. But we were a playoff team, and still a top three or four team in the NFC. You identify the needs your team currently has, and fulfill them. Then, unless an absolute no brainer player falls into your lap, you stick to your plan. Guess what, Gutey and MLF. Chances are that Love isn’t Patrick Mahomes, and Dillon isn’t Henry. Maybe one hits. The likelihood of both being long term viable options for the Packers has to be less than the odds were that we made another deep playoff run. So, maybe we don’t close the gap on San Fran all the way. Denver beat us in XXXII. Anybody here think they were the better team? With Aaron Rodgers and a talented receiving Corp, anything is possible.
Rodgers played very well in the playoffs. Had like a 110 QB rating before that final desperation heave. He completed over 70% of his passes, and nearly 80% against a pretty rough Niners unit. Is it crazy thinking that a top of the line middle linebacker, and a true #2 receiver could have been the difference?
We’re really not going to give Rodgers any better weapons? Mike McCarthy’s new team has a pair of real good 1,000 yard receivers, and they drafted another stud. Meanwhile, Rodgers hasn’t had a #2 receiver with more than about 650 yards receiving since 2016. Jordy was CPOY, and should have been a Pro Bowler (not Dex Bryant with vastly inferior numbers), and Adams emerging as a #2. That year, Rodgers led the NFL with 40 TD passes. Are we to expect that Rodgers suddenly became a lesser passer going forward? Or is it more likely that his weapons diminished?
I can’t help but feel we’ve essentially wasted two of the best to ever play the game. 28 years of Favre and Rodgers. 3-5 in the NFC Championship Game, 2-1 in the Super Bowl. The quarterback position is the hardest to fill in all professional sports. We didn’t have to be the Patriots, but damn, I feel like we surrounded these two guys with a lot of inferior talent. We keep investing pick after pick after pick on the defense, and only last year does it finally improve, only to be run over by a backup running back. A lot of money spent in free agency-4 players, of which one is for Rodgers. A lineman. And before that, and over the hill tight end. Rodgers sees Dallas grabbing Amari Cooper and thinks, “couldn’t we have brought him here?” Give the least mistake prone quarterback in the history of the league-by an absolutely laughable margin-some damned weapons to throw to. Tom Brady throws 3 scores for every pick. Rodgers throws 4.3 for every pick. That’s just silly. Maybe he’d open it up a little bit more if his receivers after Adams weren’t such disappointments. He doesn’t trust them, hence the more conservative play. He had to make something out of a practice squad guy that two other teams dumped. What does that tell you?
The one guy we bring in was out almost all last year hurt. ESB was out all year hurt. Jace Sternberger was out all year hurt. Adams missed 1/4 of the season. MVS might as well have been hurt. Has any truly great quarterback ever had so little to play with?
@slowmo posted:You don't have to be "smarter" than the GM to know his ability to draft is questionable.
He drafted 19 players in his first two years of drafting, resulting in two good players (Alexander, Jenkins), a starter (Savage), a punter and a long snapper. The need positions of WR, ILB and CB he attempted to address and has failed, including using high picks to draft busts at CB (Jackson) and ILB (Burks).
While the draft is a crapshoot, your 1-3 picks should be regular players, even if they aren't stars. The #2 and #3 picks from his first draft (Burks and Jackson) are so bad they not only don't they start, they rarely see the field as backups and Jackson was nactive multiple games. Gary hardly played last year as the #1 pick.
.I understand they are "paid to do what they do," but the drafting results of Gute to date has given plenty of reason to believe he lacks the skillset to pick quality players.
To be fair, Savage is a little more that just a starter. He made the NFL All Rookie team, and was the clear Defensive Rookie of the Year about a third of the way into the season before getting hurt. Savage is going to be a special player. I feel as if Gutekunst drafted three future Pro Bowlers.
I also know that, while Kevin King may continue to be a fairly good cover man (if he stays healthy), I would feel a whole lot different about this defense, and this entire team if we’d have taken TJ Watt. Watt on this team changes the complexion of the NFC Championship Game. I’m not saying we would have necessarily won it, but there’s not a chance in hell a backup goes for 220 against us.
@Troy posted:So, everyone thinks they're smarter than the coach and The GM of the Packers? You know, the ones who have spent their entire lives in the business? The ones who actually get paid to do what they do? The draft isn't what we wanted, but it is what they wanted. I'll trust their plan until there is reason not to. If the plan is to totally change the offensive scheme I am OK with it. Unlike others I don't think the team was anywhere as good as their record last year.
This stupid trope.
Unlike others? You mean like everyone who knew this team wasn't as good as their record? Watching the passing game with Rodgers look absolutely abysmal? Or the defense with a couple of mediocre guys next to Kenny Clark and one ILB who couldn't cover?
Yeah, you nailed it.
It's kind of crazy but would not surprise me in the least if their 5th and 6th round picks ended up having better careers than their 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks.
If I had to guess this team as assembled is probably 8-9 wins. If some of the younger guys step up perhaps the ceiling is 10-11 wins but that’s about it. Playoff caliber but not close to SF and that’s who they are chasing. But who knows? Maybe the Niners take a step back.
Of course, this assumes they play games this fall and I’m not sure they will.
And will there be college games to evaluate next years draft picks also.
And another thing, people keep saying we needed to draft to get Rodgers one more Super Bowl. Well how did that work at the end of Favre's career? We were always one player away. Sure Mike Sherman was GM but it was still one player away. It takes 53 players and a lot of luck to win a Super Bowl, not 3 draft choices.
@Troy posted:So, everyone thinks they're smarter than the coach and The GM of the Packers? You know, the ones who have spent their entire lives in the business? The ones who actually get paid to do what they do? The draft isn't what we wanted, but it is what they wanted. I'll trust their plan until there is reason not to. If the plan is to totally change the offensive scheme I am OK with it. Unlike others I don't think the team was anywhere as good as their record last year.
Then you changed your mind after the playoffs because you got all over me for suggesting they were not as good as their record coming into the playoffs. It's convenient to change your story now...….
View of how all the teams did drafting according to the media. Packers' cumulative GPA of 1.31. 
Bottom line remains: nobody knows and won't for several years.
So Suckqueens win the April Super Bowl. Again. Jesusfuk.Q
After the 2019 season, I felt that the Packers lacked talent and explosiveness at the WR position.
I now feel that Funchess is a definite talent upgrade over Allison but that the WR corps is still made up of a group of "not slow" players other than MVS -- a guy who could not get on the field, at least to contribute, over the final 2/3s of last season.
I also felt at the end of 2019 that the trio of Adams, Lancaster, and Lowry were among the worst Defensive Lineman 2-4 in the NFL and any decent rushing attack could gash us at will if so desired.
I currently still feel like Adams, Lancaster, and Lowry are not any good, hope that Keke can supplant one of them, and have as much confidence in the Pack shutting down a top-notch running team as I did about mid-way through the 3rd quarter of the NFC Championship game.
@CUPackFan posted:It's kind of crazy but would not surprise me in the least if their 5th and 6th round picks ended up having better careers than their 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks.
I agree! I think Runyan will be special if he doesn't supplant Bahktiari, as smert guys have suspected he will do. I'd rather he replace Turner who will replace Bulaga, but I'm not a smert guy. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking on Rodgers' career...
Rodgers about to be on fire...
@mrtundra posted:I agree! I think Runyan will be special if he doesn't supplant Bahktiari, as smert guys have suspected he will do. I'd rather he replace Turner who will replace Bulaga, but I'm not a smert guy. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking on Rodgers' career...
Everything I’ve read, including the Packer website says he’ll be moved to guard. Left tackle - not happening in my opinion. If he has his father’s tenaciousness he could do well at guard. I live in Philly area and saw his dad play a lot - nasty SOB at right tackle.
What I want to know is did any of the mock drafts - by anyone on any web site - have anything close to what the Packers actually picked?
If I'm looking at all the draftniks, I feel like the Vikes will win the Superb Owl every year for the next five years. If I look at our draft, I feel like... 
depending on the minute.
@Henry posted:
Let's work on more respectful disagreement and less calling out.
Is this necessary? We are all some level of frustrated with this draft, but that doesn't mean we need to derail threads with personal arguments.
@mrtundra posted:So, you think these picks Gute made are an improvement? I think Dillon will replace Williams at RB. The only improvement there is that the rookie will be cheaper than the vet, until the rookie can show he can play better than the vet did.
We don't know that yet and we won't until they play one snap of football. I for one appreciate what Gute did after those two terrible years. He led this team from being pretty bad to within one game of the Super Bowl. Not to sound like the old guy saying get off my lawn but damn I never thought in my lifetime see Packers fan so damn spoiled. Trust the process its going to be ok.
I've seen several make a point that i agree with completely- would have liked to see receiver upgraded but it's really less of a concern that the horrid run defense. Adams has been a disappointment and you're only going to get so much out of Lowry and Lancaster.
@Ghost of Lambeau posted:What I want to know is did any of the mock drafts - by anyone on any web site - have anything close to what the Packers actually picked?
I think one mock from one of the NFL.com guys had Love at 30. Fromm was another QB some had there. As far as rounds 2-7, nothing even close.
This is a hilarious gif I found while searching for poodle porn. This in no way is in response to any post. All characters are fictional and any resemblance is purely coincidental.
@michiganjoe posted:I've seen several make a point that i agree with completely- would have liked to see receiver upgraded but it's really less of a concern that the horrid run defense. Adams has been a disappointment and you're only going to get so much out of Lowry and Lancaster.
Exactly. Great, bolster the run game but you better have a solid defense because you aren't coming from behind for the win by grinding out 8 minute drives.
The problems I have with taking Love:
1) I just can't get on board with passing on a defensive player (Queen?) who could possibly give your defense something it has not had in years and taking a player that you hope never has to play.
2) By giving up a 4th to get him we set ourselves up to "reach" through the 5th round. I really like Dillon, but nfl.com (they were the most accurate big board I could find in predicting where guys were actually drafted) had him at 120, could we have gotten him in the Third? Almost everyone had our TE going around the 5th round, so I feel fairly confident he would have been there at least in the 4th. Could have taken a defensive player in the Third, perhaps Fotu from Utah? Our 5th round ILBer was looked at as going undrafted.
@13X posted:Then you changed your mind after the playoffs because you got all over me for suggesting they were not as good as their record coming into the playoffs. It's convenient to change your story now...….
Yeah, I let the games be played before I said they weren't as good as their record. If they would have won the Super Bowl I wouldn't be saying they weren't as good as their record. The difference between you and I is I still had hope during the playoffs. You wrote them off during the season before they could prove us right or wrong.
It is clear now that they are nowhere near the 49ers.