2012/2013 Bucks- reason for hope?

This does have the chance to be the best team we've seen in a long time, but like always, a lot of things have to happen for that to become reality.

If I am Skiles, Dunleavy is the 6th man. He'll be better in a limited role than try to do something he's never done- stay healthy. Plus, if Dunleavy is the 6th man, that opens the floor for them to let Harris take his lumps as the starter and grow from there.

The future of the F positions rests on Harris and Henson, and they MUST come through and produce if they're going to take a step forward.

And then there's Jennings. It's year 4. Time to put up or shut up. Dominate the PG position, become what you claim as your destiny as a player, and THEN and only then will you get the support of the franchise as the team's franchise player. PROVE that you're in the conversation before you put yourself in it with premature talk of being on the elite level in FA. It either happens this year or it won't at all. No excuses.

And for heaven's sake, if the ball reverses and you're wide open, MAKE THE DAMN THING!!!!

Is Delfino gone?

Yep.

Signed with Houston.

Yup, and hopefully Harris' performance in the summer league gives him all of Delfino's minutes and then some.

With the length and rebounding of their new core (Dalembert, Pryz, Udoh, Sanders, and Henson), there's lots of fouls to give- so they should be better defensively. Provided they can execute their offense and shoot above 42%, they should be a fringe playoff team. If guys step up I n elite way, they may be this year's Pacers. But I am totally in a prove it mode at this stage. they don't get a dime of my money and only some of my attention. Win and they get more.

Tobias Harris had some of the best play in all of the summer leagues this year. He was borderline dominant.

He plays a SF/PF position that the Bucks desperately need some star power at, and if he can at least contribute with solid backup type minutes it'll go a long way.

The kid at least proved he can play. There were a lot of people high on him coming out, and the lockout dud him no favors. Henson also played pretty solidly. I dont expect any sort of run at top 4 in the EC, but this should be a playoff team if these guys play like they look on paper. But we've all seen that movie before...

Can this Tobias Harris score as a PF?

Bucks problem looks to me to be front line (read: center and PF) scoring. Center position doesn't have a chance. It would be nice to have something at PF.

Of course, PG (Jennings) is an uncertainty as well. Very mercurial.

Well , if you think about, Skiles' offense is G oriented. They really don't need a Karl Malone or Tim Duncan. The PF/C in this offense doesn't get a lot of post opportunities. They don't need a guy backing people down. Drive and kick, ball reversal, bigs flash to the paint. It looks like Hendon has enough game to function in this offense. And Gooden can knock down a 20 footer. Mike Dunleavy getting a reversal in the corner or wing for 3. I think they have offense on this team. But they gotta make shots if it's going to work. If Jenning can't make them pay when he's open, it'll be a rerun...

Harris is 6'8" and 220. He's got very good size to play the 3, he can dribble and rebound and he's got a decent jumpshot.

The knock on Harris all along has been his assertiveness, or what some people may call "killer instinct" on the court. His athleticism has never been a question.

With Ersan back in the mix I would imagine he and Moute and possible Sanders will lock down the PF position, and it's really up to Dunleavy and Harris to man the SF position. With Delfino gone there's a great opportunity for Harris to step in and play a significant amount of minutes.

I believe the Bucks have said that they do not want LRMAM to play the 4 this year much at all. He will be playing the 3.

Jennings/Beno/(free agent/end of roster guy) at the 1.

Ellis/Dunleavy(split 2-3)/Lamb at the 2

Harris/LRMAM/Dunleavy at the 3

Ers/Henson/Udoh/Gooden seems to be the rotation at the 4.

Sam D/Pryzbilla/Sanders at the 5.


That's 13 - the 3rd pg would be 14... and I imagine they'll find another guard as the 15th roster spot sooner or later this season.

There still could be a trade at the 3/4/5 to bring in another 2 guard. I see LRMAM/Gooden/Sanders/Udoh as candidates for most likely to be traded.

I am guessing Harris won't start, but he'll be on the second unit with expecations that he'll bring scoring off the bench. Skiles is going to want LRMAM starting for his D. An LRMAM has become a better 15 and in scorer, so he's not a total liability offensively.

As long as Harris gets Delfino's minutes, which is about 28-30 game, I'll be hapy. It'll be the bridge to him being a full time starter developmentally. Him and LRMAM should bea nice SF rotastion.

Henson could eventually become their center of the future. He had a great summer league and was a real force defensively. He needs to get stronger, but he has a lot of ability. Not quite sold on Sanders though.

I dont think they are looking at him as a full-time center. He should get a lot of minutes at the 4, but I do agree he will see a nice amount of minutes at the 5.. especially when the opposing 5 isnt a bruiser.

Im really excited about this team.


Also, in a tweet this week Gery Woeful confirmed that Monta Ellis will not sign an extention here in Milwaukee after this season.


That is excellent news! They can look into moving him now.

Ellis has always been kind of a headcase so I really don't care much

However, he does have an $11MM player option in 2013/2014 so he may stick around for another season

The key thing is that Udrih and Dalembert fall off after this season and that's $14.5MM in savings. With Henson and Tobias Harris in the mix they could take up some of those minutes.

If he has a bad season, he will probably take it. But it would have to be really, really bad.


Someone will pay him on a 3-4 year deal after this year.

The addition of Daniels fills a G/F depth need. Can't complain too much about that.

But the G duo and young Fs will determine how far we really go this year... Lottery or playoffs.

Well, TC officially opens... Anyone else jacked for the 2012-13 Milwaukee Bucks?

Jacked every year, usually without reason. This year there's reason.

My biggest concern is actually Jennings, just not sold on the guy. With Ellis and decent production at PF/SF, they don't really need him to be a big scorer and that seems to be his M.O. Guy wants to be a superstar while every other guy on the team seems to know his role. Still see him as being a bit immature. Hoping he comes around and does better with shot selection. JMHO

what The Nerve said ...

I see it this way- Jennings' perceived shot selection issues is more about their inability to do two things- play defense, and hit open shots.

Their inability to defend and rebound effectively really hampered the running game. Now granted, they have lacked a finisher since Ray Allen, but no misses or rebounds from misses leads to no outlets and no running. Ellis is a solid finisher, and maybe Harris or Henson, but you gotta. E able to rebound and defend to run.

Missing open looks is the other issue. Jennings is so streaky- how many times has gotten that ball reversal and back ironed the shot? Then he'll bury one with 2 tuys in his face. Its frustrating, because thats what Skiles' scheme does- generates open backside looks on reversals.

But the whole team needs to be able make them. It's probably why they paid Ilyasove- perfect compliment in this scheme. Make them and suddenly there are lanes for Jennings or Ellis to penetrate. Then the ball can reverse more effectively, then all those PRs they hav collected can get an o-rebound. Seems simple, but if executed properly (see Spurs), you can be dominant offensively without LeBron or Kobe. To execute, you have to reward execution with baskets.

Much of Jennings' issue was creating wih 5 secs on the shot clock. Only low % shots come frI'm those opportunities. They need improved play from Jenning, but he needs improved okay around him, too.

With the addition of more size in the frontcourt I would think that will help Jennings because of blocks and rebounds adding to more chances to get out in transition and run where he really excels.

Jennings biggest problem is when the game slows down and they get into a halfcourt mode because he doesn't think and act like a PG should. Maybe that's just the way the guy is, but they need to find ways to speed up the tempo because if he's on the move or taking guys off the dribble he's very tough to defend.

The one thing about all these bigs is that each guy has proven to be an effective player at various times in their careers. JSO talked about this with Dalembert- that he sees similarities with Jennings and Iverson and their games, and thus might have a decent understanding how to maximize the play between them. It's a fair point that will be interesting to watch and see if it pans out that way.

But even if no, you have Dalembert and Prz both effective rebounding, blocking shots, and staying out of the way offensively, Ilyasova, Gooden, Sanders, and Henson all very capable from night to night, and two penetrating Gs who can may you pay for paying too much attention to them. It has promise, but they still have to prove it will equal wins.

They have a good mixture of youth and veterans too. I think for several years now they've relied too much on their inexperience and most of the really good teams in the league have veteran leaders who carry the load.

No one can say Jennings is a rookie anymore. Ellis has been in the league for a while. Henson and Sanders and Harris are really the only guys you can say lack true experience.

First preseason game and they blew out the Cavs

Harris and Henson provided a nice spark - Harris shot 4-7 from the field and Henson grabbed 7 boards in backup duty.

Looks like they didn't shoot the ball particularly well overall (30% from 3pt range) but they generated 22 turnovers and they outrebounded the Cavs.

Caveat- preseason game against the Cavs.

But still, if that is anything like what we will see this season (8 blocks, + rebounding, forcing 22 TOs), Hammond is executive of the year. Dalembert 15 mins, 3 blocks, 4 rebounds... Sanders 10 pts, 8 boards in 17 min... Solid interior play.

I suppose the answer depends on what you mean by "hope". If it hope means a .500 record...yes there is hope. If hope means making the playoffs, there is a little hope. If hope means winning the conference, then I have to say slim to none. If hope means winning it all,... Realistically, no.

I dont say this in a demeaning way, it is the SAME OBJECTIVE feeling I have as a BUCS fan for the last 9 years. Hope for a .500 record, yes some. Hope of winning the conference, extremely unlikely, hope of winning the Super Bowl, none.

Too many other teams are much more talented and this is not NCAA basketball where one exceptional player can singlehandedly win you a championship ala Magic, Danny Manning, or Carmelo Anthony.

Currently, the Eastern Conference is a little unsettled with the Rose injury and who knows of Indiana can repeat their success last year? Obviously Miami should be really good but Boston isn't getting any younger either. I think the situation is perfect for a team like the Bucks to sneak up on some teams. Milwaukee has enough pieces to make a legit push to get into the playoffs and make some noise. Does that mean they will win the East? Probably not, but i think they have a chance to win 45-50 games if they can gel.

quote:

Originally posted by CALBuccaneer:
Too many other teams are much more talented and this is not NCAA basketball where one exceptional player can singlehandedly win you a championship ala Magic, Danny Manning, or Carmelo Anthony.

The Bucks have a more balanced defense, and this will theoretically keep them in more games. Skiles may finally have his best defensive team. How that translates to playoff position in the EC, tough to say. Indy was a very good team last season- that's the model and hope, anyway.

But your arrogance isn't needed in this discussion. Oh gee, the Bucks aren't going to win it all? What a revelation!

Stop trying, Cal... You don't understand anything about the Bucks, and you don't know much more about the game. I understand, being a lifelong Laker fan (cough cough) shields you from the reality of the rest of the NBA. I'll bet a sycophant Laker forum would be a great place to discuss your boys though...

Once again- doing it with D. Henson flexing a bit in the opening Q. Sanders with 5 blocks, 14 as a team, another + rebounding night, and they forced another 20 TOs. 29 assists on 38 baskets is solid work. Pistons shoot 39% from the field.

Another game, another blowout win

They beat up on Deetoilet despite only scoring 13 pts in the 4Q

You have to wonder if they will continue to force turnovers at this rate. They had 22 against Cleveland and 20 against Detroit. What stood out to me was the 14 blocks. Wow. And Pryzbilla didn't even play in the game.

The 3 headed monster of Henson, Dalembert, and Pryz may be downright scary defensively. When's the last time we said that of their big men?

Keep in mind they are doing all of this despite only shooting about 30% from 3pt range.

Watched the game last night, haven't seen so many blocks in a game that I can remember. Henson needs to put on weight but the guy is active, can block shots, and will take it to the rim on occasion. We not only have some big men, but athletic big men finally who can not only clog up the middle but also run, block shots, score inside, etc. Bogut could do all those things when healthy, but now we seem to have several who can.

Skiles talked about it after the game- the used to rely in Bogut almost exclusively to defend the rim- now they have 5 different guyscthstvwill rebound and block shots. Plus Gooden and Ilyasova as inside/outside guys. It's pre-season, yes, but there's definitely something brewing with this interior...

Without having seen the Bucks play and after reading the posts here, as a devil's advocate I'll suggest this.

The Bucks will be very deficient scoring at both C and PF and that is just too big a liability.

But Skiles' offense isn't about the PF or C position from my perspective.

The main player they need of those PF/C guys is Ilyasova. He is the one that can hurt you in the p&r, or penetrate and kick. The PF/C in this offense needs to flash to the rim and look for the extra pass on a reversal. There is no need for a back 'em down big man on this team, IMO.

And if you think about it, it's what was always off about Bogut on this team. They insisted in high p&r, and since Bogut had no shot, it was frustrating that Skiles insisted on this kind of offense. When Bogut would post and back his man down, it would totally stagnate the offense.

This lineup is all about the Gs and wings players. It starts with movement, then penetrate, and then spacing gets the open looks and the extra pass gets the easy baskets. A back down big man doesn't fit in this system IMO...

In all seriousness, it sounds like you know what you are talking about more than I do!

Hope you're right, man.

quote:

Originally posted by Music City:

quote:

Originally posted by CALBuccaneer:
Too many other teams are much more talented and this is not NCAA basketball where one exceptional player can singlehandedly win you a championship ala Magic, Danny Manning, or Carmelo Anthony.

The Bucks have a more balanced defense, and this will theoretically keep them in more games. Skiles may finally have his best defensive team. How that translates to playoff position in the EC, tough to say. Indy was a very good team last season- that's the model and hope, anyway.

But your arrogance isn't needed in this discussion. Oh gee, the Bucks aren't going to win it all? What a revelation!

Stop trying, Cal... You don't understand anything about the Bucks, and you don't know much more about the game. I understand, being a lifelong Laker fan (cough cough) shields you from the reality of the rest of the NBA. I'll bet a sycophant Laker forum would be a great place to discuss your boys though...

Oh great Oracle of Basketball (Cough! Gag!),

Please give us your prediction of the Bucks since you are so knowledgeable (Allegedly...). Do it right here and now so we can re-visit it.

See, that's what makes your commentary so unwelcome. You think this is about predictions. You're not qualified to comment about the Bucks, so save your Laker fan point of view. Feel free to stuff your request firmly in your rectum.

I think the Bucks will make the playoffs barring injury ...

and, oh yeah, you can stick it up yer Laker-kissin arse CalBuc.

quote:

Originally posted by Music City:
See, that's what makes your commentary so unwelcome. You think this is about predictions. You're not qualified to comment about the Bucks, so save your Laker fan point of view. Feel free to stuff your request firmly in your rectum.

Music City,

Unlike you and a few others on here, i am
Going to keep it civil. I made no mention about the Lakers, you did. This is a Bucks thread, no? All I asked was how does your view of the BUCKS hope differ from what I wrote? I doubt it is significantly different judging by what you wrote.

You can continue your attacks if you want but they don't affect me. Or you can enlighten me if you think my synopsis of hope is incorrect. Its not so much even the Bucks that fall in this category.. There are maybe 25 teams in somewhat similar situations.