Tough loss last night but I think Memphis might be the most under the radar team in the league. First game Milwaukee was really pounded on the glass but Memphis will do that to a lot of teams. Good to see the 3pt shooting come around though.
quote:Originally posted by CALBuccaneer:
Unlike you and a few others on here, i am
Going to keep it civil.
it is your humility that gives you credibility
Oh sure... the "poor wittle victim" routine. Save it.
You really want a discussion of your synopsis? Really? OK, but once again, you're not going to like it.
This is exactly why you're not qualified to speak about this team. You simply don't understand what we could possibly mean by "hope". It is why you don't understand that I take issue with- a Cali Laker fan only views "hope" through the prism of your own history. You have had that luxury. When you didn't win, you went out and "acquired" your centerpiece to a Championship. A team like Milwaukee will NEVER be able to do that. The inherent inequities of the NBA would be the reason- but since you're always on the receiving end of being the desired destination, you simply cannot possibly understand how it feels to be a Milwaukee, Cleveland, or Minnesota fan. It's why those fan bases would LOVE to see an Oklahoma City win it all, if for no other reason than to deny what you think is your destiny.
A franchise that for 25 years has been drowning in a sea of ineptitude views hope as a winning season. Or quality basketball that may not equate to wins. Progress. Growth. Taking on the big boys and holding their own.
If you cannot discern the difference between the dynamics of the NBA and the NFL, you simply are too stupid to continue in the conversation.
OF COURSE you see the game from the point of view that you have to have "one exceptional player" and "single handedly" describe what you think greatness is. In the NCAA, a good basketball player is a good basketball player and the play of an excellent TEAM can propel you to greatness (see Butler and to a lesser degree Wisconsin). There are similar inequities in the NCAA, but the game itself does keep the playing field level for the most part. Recruiting McD's AAs is not the only path to "exceptional" basketball.
And of course the NBA is not like that. Tragic, too. If the NBA was more like the NFL in that you can build your team over time with the right coaching and players, it would be more popular. You see, us Midwestern folk have a tendency to like games where the outcome isn't pre-determined, or the playing field isn't completely tilted to the teams on either coasts where all that sacred "money" is. It's why the NFL's true roots are here, and NOT in your sacred, hallowed ground of the coasts. You have baseball and the NBA- we have football. Take a look at which one's more popular, and more importantly why.
If you were born and raised in the Midwest, you would understand. If you would have watched the Bucks since birth, you would understand. But you don't, and you never will.
You really want a discussion of your synopsis? Really? OK, but once again, you're not going to like it.
quote:I suppose the answer depends on what you mean by "hope". If it hope means a .500 record...yes there is hope. If hope means making the playoffs, there is a little hope.
This is exactly why you're not qualified to speak about this team. You simply don't understand what we could possibly mean by "hope". It is why you don't understand that I take issue with- a Cali Laker fan only views "hope" through the prism of your own history. You have had that luxury. When you didn't win, you went out and "acquired" your centerpiece to a Championship. A team like Milwaukee will NEVER be able to do that. The inherent inequities of the NBA would be the reason- but since you're always on the receiving end of being the desired destination, you simply cannot possibly understand how it feels to be a Milwaukee, Cleveland, or Minnesota fan. It's why those fan bases would LOVE to see an Oklahoma City win it all, if for no other reason than to deny what you think is your destiny.
A franchise that for 25 years has been drowning in a sea of ineptitude views hope as a winning season. Or quality basketball that may not equate to wins. Progress. Growth. Taking on the big boys and holding their own.
quote:I dont say this in a demeaning way, it is the SAME OBJECTIVE feeling I have as a BUCS fan for the last 9 years. Hope for a .500 record, yes some. Hope of winning the conference, extremely unlikely, hope of winning the Super Bowl, none.
If you cannot discern the difference between the dynamics of the NBA and the NFL, you simply are too stupid to continue in the conversation.
quote:Too many other teams are much more talented and this is not NCAA basketball where one exceptional player can singlehandedly win you a championship ala Magic, Danny Manning, or Carmelo Anthony.
OF COURSE you see the game from the point of view that you have to have "one exceptional player" and "single handedly" describe what you think greatness is. In the NCAA, a good basketball player is a good basketball player and the play of an excellent TEAM can propel you to greatness (see Butler and to a lesser degree Wisconsin). There are similar inequities in the NCAA, but the game itself does keep the playing field level for the most part. Recruiting McD's AAs is not the only path to "exceptional" basketball.
And of course the NBA is not like that. Tragic, too. If the NBA was more like the NFL in that you can build your team over time with the right coaching and players, it would be more popular. You see, us Midwestern folk have a tendency to like games where the outcome isn't pre-determined, or the playing field isn't completely tilted to the teams on either coasts where all that sacred "money" is. It's why the NFL's true roots are here, and NOT in your sacred, hallowed ground of the coasts. You have baseball and the NBA- we have football. Take a look at which one's more popular, and more importantly why.
If you were born and raised in the Midwest, you would understand. If you would have watched the Bucks since birth, you would understand. But you don't, and you never will.
There is simply a lot of luck involved in the NBA too. Tell that to Timberwolves fans in the 90s when they got upstaged in the lottery several times and could have had a Shaq or Penny Hardaway but instead ended up with stiffs like Laettner. Tell that to Portland fans that could have had Durant but took Oden instead. Luck bounces the other way too. Think San Antonio and Tim Duncan and Chicago and Derrick Rose.
The Lakers are the NBA equivalent of the Dallas Cowboys or the NY Yankees. Great tradition of winning but they've been able to do it through endless spending and not necessarily some personnel evaluation prowess. They can go out and buy championships.
If they had a more equitable revenue sharing program in the NBA I think you would see more competition with the small market teams. That isnt reality.
The Lakers are the NBA equivalent of the Dallas Cowboys or the NY Yankees. Great tradition of winning but they've been able to do it through endless spending and not necessarily some personnel evaluation prowess. They can go out and buy championships.
If they had a more equitable revenue sharing program in the NBA I think you would see more competition with the small market teams. That isnt reality.
quote:Originally posted by CALBuccaneer:quote:Originally posted by Music City:
See, that's what makes your commentary so unwelcome. You think this is about predictions. You're not qualified to comment about the Bucks, so save your Laker fan point of view. Feel free to stuff your request firmly in your rectum.
Music City,
Unlike you and a few others on here, i am
Going to keep it civil. I made no mention about the Lakers, you did. This is a Bucks thread, no? All I asked was how does your view of the BUCKS hope differ from what I wrote? I doubt it is significantly different judging by what you wrote.
You can continue your attacks if you want but they don't affect me. Or you can enlighten me if you think my synopsis of hope is incorrect. Its not so much even the Bucks that fall in this category.. There are maybe 25 teams in somewhat similar situations.
Troll. Dont even act like you care or understand. Go back to bandwagon jumping and disappearing when your ****bag team does bad. Leave us please.. begone.
Music City,
That's what I was trying to get defined...what HOPE is for you...that's why my sentence started with "I suppose it depends on how you define Hope..." I appreciate your definition and I agree with you that Milwaukee will be hard pressed to field championship caliber teams without some luck in drafts. There are inherent inequities in the system in the NBA. But, not ALL the championships were "bought"... I mean Magic and Worthy and Scott and A C Green were drafted and added to Jabbar (who I don't have to tell you was traded to LA). 4 out of 5 pieces were drafted...
In any case, you are right about the other things you wrote. There is one big difference between NBA and NFL... 5 man team vs. 22 man team... so if TWO big free agents decide to take their game to another NBA team, all of a sudden the team is transformed overnight because 40% of the starting lineup changed. In the NFL, you can't change 40% of the team through free agency and you need luck/skill in the draft. Certainly, you KNOW that sometimes even one guy like a Reggie White or one trade (Favre) can move you up the chain in the NFL too. The effect of one or two players in the NBA is more pronounced due to 5 vs. 22. So, yes the NFL has a huge emphasis on the draft.
And, I get the underdog view. I appreciate the OKC Thunder players and three years ago when I predicted they would be a team to watch out for, one poster on here laughed at me. I would like to see them win if the Lakers don't. Durant and WestBrook are top level exciting players to watch.
Tschmack made a good point about draft luck or management decisions... Portland infamously had Drexler and did not feel Jordan was what they needed...enter Sam Bowie... what a difference a small market team could have made for themselves.
In today's NBA, the power has shifted to the players and they can move wherever they want. LA, Miami, NY, and Chicago are all naturally going to be metros many players will want to move to because of other considerations like weather, media coverage, endorsement centers, money, and higher visibility. It is what it is.
That's what I was trying to get defined...what HOPE is for you...that's why my sentence started with "I suppose it depends on how you define Hope..." I appreciate your definition and I agree with you that Milwaukee will be hard pressed to field championship caliber teams without some luck in drafts. There are inherent inequities in the system in the NBA. But, not ALL the championships were "bought"... I mean Magic and Worthy and Scott and A C Green were drafted and added to Jabbar (who I don't have to tell you was traded to LA). 4 out of 5 pieces were drafted...
In any case, you are right about the other things you wrote. There is one big difference between NBA and NFL... 5 man team vs. 22 man team... so if TWO big free agents decide to take their game to another NBA team, all of a sudden the team is transformed overnight because 40% of the starting lineup changed. In the NFL, you can't change 40% of the team through free agency and you need luck/skill in the draft. Certainly, you KNOW that sometimes even one guy like a Reggie White or one trade (Favre) can move you up the chain in the NFL too. The effect of one or two players in the NBA is more pronounced due to 5 vs. 22. So, yes the NFL has a huge emphasis on the draft.
And, I get the underdog view. I appreciate the OKC Thunder players and three years ago when I predicted they would be a team to watch out for, one poster on here laughed at me. I would like to see them win if the Lakers don't. Durant and WestBrook are top level exciting players to watch.
Tschmack made a good point about draft luck or management decisions... Portland infamously had Drexler and did not feel Jordan was what they needed...enter Sam Bowie... what a difference a small market team could have made for themselves.
In today's NBA, the power has shifted to the players and they can move wherever they want. LA, Miami, NY, and Chicago are all naturally going to be metros many players will want to move to because of other considerations like weather, media coverage, endorsement centers, money, and higher visibility. It is what it is.
quote:who I don't have to tell you was traded to LA
Hi CalBuc,
Nice tone in your post.
Just for some history, Jabbar demanded to leave Milwaukee and wanted to go to New York (home) or LA (college). Milwaukee acquiesced to Jabbar's demand.
Kind'a sort'a the same general thing. Know what I mean?
Have to give the Lakers kudos for drafting Magic and Worthy though they were pretty braindead selections. Note: Lakers were considering Moncrief instead of Magic, by the way.
Jerry West was a fantastic GM but since he departed I have not been impressed with their personnel decisions.
Then again the NBA has changed dramatically in the last decade or so in terms of player movement. More and more players are choosing where they want to play and it's killing the smaller market teams. That's why they have to draft well. There is so little margin for error.
When you look at Minnesota and Milwaukee specifically their drafts were awful for nearly a 10 year period. McHale and Larry Harris did those teams really bad and heck, look at how MJ has butchered the Bobcats drafts?
I think John Hammond is on the right track and ironically Detroit has been a track wreck since he departed.
Then again the NBA has changed dramatically in the last decade or so in terms of player movement. More and more players are choosing where they want to play and it's killing the smaller market teams. That's why they have to draft well. There is so little margin for error.
When you look at Minnesota and Milwaukee specifically their drafts were awful for nearly a 10 year period. McHale and Larry Harris did those teams really bad and heck, look at how MJ has butchered the Bobcats drafts?
I think John Hammond is on the right track and ironically Detroit has been a track wreck since he departed.
I wish you guys success and I hope you get to experience a championship again someday. I like an underdog as much as the next guy. So, when it happens unexpectedly one day, it will make it sweeter. Good luck.
Music City,
Btw, last ten years, Bucs = Bucks...I know how it feels...just in a different sport.
Both have one championship in their history and many bleak years...
CAL,...nothing in 40 years...can't even beat USC ever it seems...
Fresno State,...one baseball championship...otherwise nothing to brag about...
Rams from 1970-when they left Anaheim... nothing...one heartbreaking loss to the Steelers in the Super Bowl.
Lakers,...with one local team I got lucky. I'm sure we ALL have one team in sports that has experienced some consistent success. Even Cubs fans had Jordan's Bulls. You guys are enjoying the Jordan of football right now in Rodgers.
Dodgers...nothing but one Gibson miracle homer...when they traded away Pedro and Piazza, I stopped caring about baseball.
Otherwise, things have been pretty bleak sports-wise for me but you keep watching and hoping for that magical year...
I don't think supporting a weak team through rough times is a MIDWEST thing, I think it is a loyal fan thing.
Packers/Wisconsin are perennial contenders for the past 15 years and so the Bucks and Brewers just offset that somewhat. It's not like ALL your sport teams suck either.
Music City,
Btw, last ten years, Bucs = Bucks...I know how it feels...just in a different sport.
Both have one championship in their history and many bleak years...CAL,...nothing in 40 years...can't even beat USC ever it seems...
Fresno State,...one baseball championship...otherwise nothing to brag about...
Rams from 1970-when they left Anaheim... nothing...one heartbreaking loss to the Steelers in the Super Bowl.
Lakers,...with one local team I got lucky. I'm sure we ALL have one team in sports that has experienced some consistent success. Even Cubs fans had Jordan's Bulls. You guys are enjoying the Jordan of football right now in Rodgers.
Dodgers...nothing but one Gibson miracle homer...when they traded away Pedro and Piazza, I stopped caring about baseball.
Otherwise, things have been pretty bleak sports-wise for me but you keep watching and hoping for that magical year...
I don't think supporting a weak team through rough times is a MIDWEST thing, I think it is a loyal fan thing.
Packers/Wisconsin are perennial contenders for the past 15 years and so the Bucks and Brewers just offset that somewhat. It's not like ALL your sport teams suck either.
So what do we have aftewr two weeks?
A 3-1 start and a tough game against Boston tonight. So far, the Bucks are a team that plays well when they have energy. When Jennings and Ellis are attacking, and when they're active and following their principals on D, they are very tough.
INteresting development- Gooden is inactive last night, and hasn't played a minute this season. Dalembert, Sanders, and Udoh are rotating on the interior, all have been productive in their way, and Sanders continues to be the X factor with the rim defense and the play around the basket on O. His athleticism has lead to easier baskets, which in those games has gotten them going (including last night when the Bucks were down 12-0 to start the game).
And Jennings- last night he made the biggest play I have seen from him yet. After a Wiz plowed Ellis into the crowd on a breakaway, he came to the defense of his teammate, shoving the guy to the ground. THAT is what we need to see- don't take no s**t. You're the Bucks... they don't respect you, the officials don't respect you, the league doesn't repsect you... you have to go out with a chip on your shoulder every night and prove them wrong. That really shows that the players are starting to embody their coach, who played like that in his career. That toughness, that fire... if this franchise is going to turn things around, that's how it is done.
They have the athletes to do it. They're proving that. When Jennings and Ellis are attacking, they open up the whole thing. Ilyasove finally broke out of his shooting slump last night and Dunleavy is picking up right where he left off last year.
Here's what I am concerned about- teams are going to start doing what they did last year- get dirty. The Celtics are going to try to get in their head tonight with dirty play. Garnett, Pierce- these guys know that to try to get the advantage back form a team with building confidence, you get in their head and frustrate them. We've seen it before. Start playing street ball on D and see what a team is made of.
Tonight is a big game in my mind. They surprised the Celtics last time, They're going to be ready this time. Beat them anyways? Now we have something going...
A 3-1 start and a tough game against Boston tonight. So far, the Bucks are a team that plays well when they have energy. When Jennings and Ellis are attacking, and when they're active and following their principals on D, they are very tough.
INteresting development- Gooden is inactive last night, and hasn't played a minute this season. Dalembert, Sanders, and Udoh are rotating on the interior, all have been productive in their way, and Sanders continues to be the X factor with the rim defense and the play around the basket on O. His athleticism has lead to easier baskets, which in those games has gotten them going (including last night when the Bucks were down 12-0 to start the game).
And Jennings- last night he made the biggest play I have seen from him yet. After a Wiz plowed Ellis into the crowd on a breakaway, he came to the defense of his teammate, shoving the guy to the ground. THAT is what we need to see- don't take no s**t. You're the Bucks... they don't respect you, the officials don't respect you, the league doesn't repsect you... you have to go out with a chip on your shoulder every night and prove them wrong. That really shows that the players are starting to embody their coach, who played like that in his career. That toughness, that fire... if this franchise is going to turn things around, that's how it is done.
They have the athletes to do it. They're proving that. When Jennings and Ellis are attacking, they open up the whole thing. Ilyasove finally broke out of his shooting slump last night and Dunleavy is picking up right where he left off last year.
Here's what I am concerned about- teams are going to start doing what they did last year- get dirty. The Celtics are going to try to get in their head tonight with dirty play. Garnett, Pierce- these guys know that to try to get the advantage back form a team with building confidence, you get in their head and frustrate them. We've seen it before. Start playing street ball on D and see what a team is made of.
Tonight is a big game in my mind. They surprised the Celtics last time, They're going to be ready this time. Beat them anyways? Now we have something going...
4-2 after shutting down Philly in the 4th last night. Jennings with 33, 8, 5,and 4. When his shots fall, he plays more aggressively.
Strangest set to the season. 3-0 on the road, 1-2 at home. Indy without Granger tomorrow- need to keep the wins coming.
Strangest set to the season. 3-0 on the road, 1-2 at home. Indy without Granger tomorrow- need to keep the wins coming.
Very happy with the win at Philly. That team has always given the Bucks problems it seems. Nice to see in the JSOnline article that Jennings showed up three hours early to work on his shot because he was ticked off about his performance vs. Boston.
True, but Jennings seems to me to be an exception to that. He's a gym rat and his work ethic is one thing he's never been questioned on. Based on who I see he is, I think hecwsnts to be great.
But I do question his desire to do it in MKE. He and Ellis seem to be developing strong chemistry, and it's showing in the results. So far defensively, the depth in front court is proving to be the right answer to the perceived def inadequacies of their star G duo. And it's no coincidence, Jennings leads the NBA in steals. He can take more chances and use his quick hands knowing that there is defense at the rim. It accentuates his strength (quick hands) rather that component his weaknesses (technique). Smart move that's already paying off. Ellis is in the same boat- great hands, but not a great defender. Now he can play passing lanes, and it's working.
But I do question his desire to do it in MKE. He and Ellis seem to be developing strong chemistry, and it's showing in the results. So far defensively, the depth in front court is proving to be the right answer to the perceived def inadequacies of their star G duo. And it's no coincidence, Jennings leads the NBA in steals. He can take more chances and use his quick hands knowing that there is defense at the rim. It accentuates his strength (quick hands) rather that component his weaknesses (technique). Smart move that's already paying off. Ellis is in the same boat- great hands, but not a great defender. Now he can play passing lanes, and it's working.
Make that 5-2 now
They dismantled the Pacers - a team that was supposed to be viewed as a top 5 team in the East this year. It looks like Ellis and Jennings had their way inside and simply beat them off the dribble time and time again.
The other factor is that they dished out 24 assists and had 10+ steals. They also turned over Indy 19 times.
What should be eye opening to the rest of league is that when this team gets rolling they are tough to stop. They only shot 41% from the field yet they won very convincingly.
They dismantled the Pacers - a team that was supposed to be viewed as a top 5 team in the East this year. It looks like Ellis and Jennings had their way inside and simply beat them off the dribble time and time again.
The other factor is that they dished out 24 assists and had 10+ steals. They also turned over Indy 19 times.
What should be eye opening to the rest of league is that when this team gets rolling they are tough to stop. They only shot 41% from the field yet they won very convincingly.
The Bucks have to be happy with the play of their bigs (Dalembert, Udoh, and Sanders in particular) and with the bench play (Udrih and Dunleavy). Decent start considering Ilyasova has shot poorly thus far. Rebounding has been good, defense respectable. All of the players in the rotation can score, not much dead weight. Winning cures everything.
You have to like the up tempo style and the active, aggressive D. Since they really got outplayed by Memphis, they have gone on a nice run.
I'll say this- they're not built to win in the post-season. I'm ok with that, since they're winning now. Play 65-70% winning ball and you can take another step. I think Bucks fans want to see a team worth watching, and they're a team worth watching right now. Keep it going... It doesn't take WI sports fans much to come around. Still be 65-70% winning in JAN, and the BC will once again be a tough place to play.
I'll say this- they're not built to win in the post-season. I'm ok with that, since they're winning now. Play 65-70% winning ball and you can take another step. I think Bucks fans want to see a team worth watching, and they're a team worth watching right now. Keep it going... It doesn't take WI sports fans much to come around. Still be 65-70% winning in JAN, and the BC will once again be a tough place to play.
The style of play does tend to slow down and favor the halfcourt in the playoffs, but let's not forget that the Bucks finally have some size now in the frontcourt so at the very least they can contest shots and rebound on a consistent basis.
Jennings certainly seems to thrive more in a run and gun approach, but I wouldn't be quick to dismiss Milwaukee's chances in the playoffs either. OKC has done pretty well running up and down the court and focusing on offense.
Jennings certainly seems to thrive more in a run and gun approach, but I wouldn't be quick to dismiss Milwaukee's chances in the playoffs either. OKC has done pretty well running up and down the court and focusing on offense.
But they have two elite scorers that present a matchup nightmare for anyone they play and the Bucks have 2 quick hut undersized Gs that don't match up well with the elite at their position.
I would love nothing more than the Bucks to be a true sleeper. I just think the odds are stacked against them.
I would love nothing more than the Bucks to be a true sleeper. I just think the odds are stacked against them.
If the Bucks continue to get solid interior play I see no reason why they couldnt do well this year including the playoffs. They have two very good starting guards and solid backups too.
Yes I think that Ellis and Jennings can co-exist
Tonight against New Orleans
Ellis 3 rebounds, 9 assists, 22 points
Jennings 3 rebounds, 9 assists, 4 steals, 22 points.
all the starters + Dunleavy in double digits scoring, maybe not their best night on D though, at least not against Anthony Davis. Its not every night you win when your opponent shoots 50% from the field, 50% on 3 pointers, and only misses one free throw. Just outscored them tonight in a shootout.
Tonight against New Orleans
Ellis 3 rebounds, 9 assists, 22 points
Jennings 3 rebounds, 9 assists, 4 steals, 22 points.
all the starters + Dunleavy in double digits scoring, maybe not their best night on D though, at least not against Anthony Davis. Its not every night you win when your opponent shoots 50% from the field, 50% on 3 pointers, and only misses one free throw. Just outscored them tonight in a shootout.
They really tightened up in the 4th, and it's great to see Ellis turning it on down the stretch again. Against Boston he went basket for basket with Pierce. He reall is adept at turning it on in the clutch.
But on e again the interior, this time Sanders, make a monster momentum play. Lead is 4 and they're hanging around. Sanders comes over and blocks a layup at the apex. Anderson pumps fakes a 3 and looks like he has 2... and Sanders makes the play.
6-2... It's really cool to see them winning.
But on e again the interior, this time Sanders, make a monster momentum play. Lead is 4 and they're hanging around. Sanders comes over and blocks a layup at the apex. Anderson pumps fakes a 3 and looks like he has 2... and Sanders makes the play.
6-2... It's really cool to see them winning.
The Bucks are looking solid - even in their 2 losses they looked like a team that still has the talent and energy to have a very nice season. Interesting note: LRMAM comes back in the next week or two. Will Harris go to the second team pushing MDJr to the 2 guard giving rest to ellis and pushing Daniels out of the rotation?
This team is almost too deep right now, but as we have seen in years past injuries are inevitable.. so having starting calibur players littered throughout your bench is such an asset.
Im liking the Ellis/Jennings backcourt. I see a different passion to get player involved and defensively they are hawking for steals. This team is definitely playoff bound. If things fall right, you could see a top 4 seed.
This team is almost too deep right now, but as we have seen in years past injuries are inevitable.. so having starting calibur players littered throughout your bench is such an asset.
Im liking the Ellis/Jennings backcourt. I see a different passion to get player involved and defensively they are hawking for steals. This team is definitely playoff bound. If things fall right, you could see a top 4 seed.
Their two losses were to Boston, a team that always gives them fits, and a blowout loss to Memphis, a team that might be one of the 3 best in the league this year.
It's not good that they gave up 110+ points, but once against they forced a lot of turnovers (19 v 11) and 6 guys had double figures. They didn't really have any answer for Davis, but he's going to be a beast for New Orleans and the good thing is they made the plays at the end to win it.
I can't recall a season recently where they started off 6-2 and they haven't technically played their best ball yet IMO. It's also amazing that they are doing this without Moute and it's not like Pryz or Gooden have played a ton of minutes either. It's a nice luxury to have a super sub like Mike Dunleavy come in off the bench, and I have to admit Beno Udrih and Larry Sanders have become very reliable backups as well.
It seems like they are settling into a nice rotation and if Tobias Harris can give them a threat at the SF position this will be a tough team to beat. You know Ellis and Jennings are a matchup problem, and I think Ersan is tough to defend because he can hit the outside shot but the shining star has been Dalembert. He is killing it because guys are so worried about Ellis and Jennings off the dribble that he's made a ton of dunks and layups on the dish plays down low getting easy feeds from those two guys.
It's not good that they gave up 110+ points, but once against they forced a lot of turnovers (19 v 11) and 6 guys had double figures. They didn't really have any answer for Davis, but he's going to be a beast for New Orleans and the good thing is they made the plays at the end to win it.
I can't recall a season recently where they started off 6-2 and they haven't technically played their best ball yet IMO. It's also amazing that they are doing this without Moute and it's not like Pryz or Gooden have played a ton of minutes either. It's a nice luxury to have a super sub like Mike Dunleavy come in off the bench, and I have to admit Beno Udrih and Larry Sanders have become very reliable backups as well.
It seems like they are settling into a nice rotation and if Tobias Harris can give them a threat at the SF position this will be a tough team to beat. You know Ellis and Jennings are a matchup problem, and I think Ersan is tough to defend because he can hit the outside shot but the shining star has been Dalembert. He is killing it because guys are so worried about Ellis and Jennings off the dribble that he's made a ton of dunks and layups on the dish plays down low getting easy feeds from those two guys.
quote:Im liking the Ellis/Jennings backcourt. I see a different passion to get player involved and defensively they are hawking for steals. This team is definitely playoff bound. If things fall right, you could see a top 4 seed.
I hate to look that far ahead because this team has had a habit of crushing our hopes and dreams, but let's play the "what if" game for a moment.
Realistically, who is better than Milwaukee in the East? Miami is certainly a team to reckon with, and despite the fact they are old you can't ever count out the Celtics. Not sure what to think about either New York team at this point but Carmelo is playing out of his mind. However, the Knicks are horrendous at rebounding and they don't pass the ball much, and while I like their starting lineup I don't think Brooklyn is very deep. Atlanta and Indy don't appear to be as good this year, and Chicago is a tough team to figure out as well.
Therefore, I can really only say that Miami and Boston are as good if not better than the Bucks so I don't think it's a stretch to think they could be a top 4 seed if things fell their way.
Man, that's an awful lot of assumption. Let's assume that Jennings and Ellis are interested in continuing their tenure in Milwaukee, with uncertainty about the franchise and arena as well as the ability of this team to compete at an elite level with the establishment teams. Even if they decide MKE is OK with them, that they'll both continue to play the kind of basketball we are seeing, which will justify the $35-40M per season they will be seeking. And what of Skiles? Do you keep him as the coach? The first two may very well be dependent on Skiles being the coach. How Skiles manages this deeper roster should indicate what the Bucks should do with him. If he can get them all on the same page and keep winning, it's an indication that all along they just needed the pieces for Skiles to run his system.
I feel pretty good about Hammond staying on and guiding the team's personnel decisions. He has cleaned up quite a mess, and depite the sketchy early returns on Sanders and the mistake on Alexander, his draft history seems to be shaping up pretty strong: Jennings, Sanders, now Harris all seem to be hits. We'll see how Henson does. And clearing out bad personnel moves and getting the albatross contracts off the books has been solid.
But here's where the risk begins- Jennings and Ellis will need to get paid to stay. Skiles and Hammond also. Should the Senator tie the future of this franchise to these four men? The next 5 years are critical- that's baiscally what you're deciding on. If the Bucks become not just a viable lower tier playoff team, but a team with the ability to challenge deeper, will MKE fans come out and support them and justify the one thing that guarntees their future in MKW- a new arena? Is the G duo of Ellis/Jennings, combined with the personnal of Hammond, and the coaching of Skiles going to accomplish that? Is there enough time to be conservative and perhaps lose an of them, and thus be forced to start over again? This is what's at stake, IMO.
It's great to see them playing well. But is this enough? That decision will have to be made by the end of this season.
I feel pretty good about Hammond staying on and guiding the team's personnel decisions. He has cleaned up quite a mess, and depite the sketchy early returns on Sanders and the mistake on Alexander, his draft history seems to be shaping up pretty strong: Jennings, Sanders, now Harris all seem to be hits. We'll see how Henson does. And clearing out bad personnel moves and getting the albatross contracts off the books has been solid.
But here's where the risk begins- Jennings and Ellis will need to get paid to stay. Skiles and Hammond also. Should the Senator tie the future of this franchise to these four men? The next 5 years are critical- that's baiscally what you're deciding on. If the Bucks become not just a viable lower tier playoff team, but a team with the ability to challenge deeper, will MKE fans come out and support them and justify the one thing that guarntees their future in MKW- a new arena? Is the G duo of Ellis/Jennings, combined with the personnal of Hammond, and the coaching of Skiles going to accomplish that? Is there enough time to be conservative and perhaps lose an of them, and thus be forced to start over again? This is what's at stake, IMO.
It's great to see them playing well. But is this enough? That decision will have to be made by the end of this season.
I'm surprised with Larry Sanders, I saw him maybe getting a few minutes here and there, but he has really developed some good rebounding inst incs and blocks some shots. That is, of course, at the expense of getting fouls at an alarming rate, but with the growth he has shown this far, I guess he could learn to fouls less as well.
Good for him.
Good for him.
I think for the right price Jennings will stay with the Bucks. I'm not quite as sold on Ellis because he didn't get drafted by Milwaukee and he really has zero loyalty to the team. He's been a good soldier up to this point, but my guess is that he walks because he has a player option for $11MM next year and I think another team could pony up for that amount. I think they like what they see in Doron Lamb and it's very possible he could be their starting SG next year in Milwaukee.
Most of their big men are tied up longer term or at least for a couple of more years- i.e. Ersan, Sanders, John Henson, Moute, Gooden, and Udoh.
The part that's difficult is that Dunleavy, Dalembert, and Udrih all have expiring contracts after this year, and all three of those guys have played well. Dunleavy in particular has been a bargain at under $4MM. If Dalembert continues to play like he has he's a bargain at under $7MM. Udrih has been solid as the backup PG but in all honesty for nearly $8MM they can find another guy there.
If they let everyone that has expiring contracts walk (i.e. Ellis, Dalembert, Dunleavy, Udrih, Pryz, Daniels) and they don't resign Jennings their entire payroll comes in about $31MM next year. That includes the money they are paying Ersan, Henson, Lamb, Tobias Harris, Moute, Sanders, Udoh, and Gooden.
If you play it out or project things out- you could see a starting lineup of Lamb at the SG position, Ersan at the PF position, Henson at C, and Tobias Harris at SF. Moute, Gooden, Sanders, Udoh could be backups. That lineup won't scare anyone, but the Bucks would have nearly $30MM to find a starting PG and a couple of other key contributors. If they wanted they could very easily sign both Jennings and Ellis to max type deals and still come in under the luxury tax.
So things aren't quite so bleak as they may appear.
Most of their big men are tied up longer term or at least for a couple of more years- i.e. Ersan, Sanders, John Henson, Moute, Gooden, and Udoh.
The part that's difficult is that Dunleavy, Dalembert, and Udrih all have expiring contracts after this year, and all three of those guys have played well. Dunleavy in particular has been a bargain at under $4MM. If Dalembert continues to play like he has he's a bargain at under $7MM. Udrih has been solid as the backup PG but in all honesty for nearly $8MM they can find another guy there.
If they let everyone that has expiring contracts walk (i.e. Ellis, Dalembert, Dunleavy, Udrih, Pryz, Daniels) and they don't resign Jennings their entire payroll comes in about $31MM next year. That includes the money they are paying Ersan, Henson, Lamb, Tobias Harris, Moute, Sanders, Udoh, and Gooden.
If you play it out or project things out- you could see a starting lineup of Lamb at the SG position, Ersan at the PF position, Henson at C, and Tobias Harris at SF. Moute, Gooden, Sanders, Udoh could be backups. That lineup won't scare anyone, but the Bucks would have nearly $30MM to find a starting PG and a couple of other key contributors. If they wanted they could very easily sign both Jennings and Ellis to max type deals and still come in under the luxury tax.
So things aren't quite so bleak as they may appear.
Aren't as bleak as they may appear is an understatement when you factor in Kohl selling.
Not a good ending to the Bobcats blowing an 11pt 4Q lead. 
There will certainly be games like this but man that was a bummer. They let their foot off the gas it seemed.
There will certainly be games like this but man that was a bummer. They let their foot off the gas it seemed.
Man they had Miami on the ropes and let them off the hook.
Henson with a monster game
Henson with a monster game
Milwaukee can beat any team anytime.Especialy since Kohl left it to the region.
While I agree with that statement, they clearly have trouble finishing close games. Last year it was more a matter of 3rd quarter droughts. Sometimes I think that Jennings is trying too hard to take charge at the end of the game and is making it too easy for other teams to key on him in the last few minutes.
Tough stretch, but they have too much talent to not be a +.500 team.
Tough stretch, but they have too much talent to not be a +.500 team.
Chicago manhandled the Bucks on the glass which was really surprising because I think other than the Memphis loss the Bucks have played pretty well inside.
Much like Boston, the Bulls are a team that seem to have Milwaukee's number. The Bucks did a nice job turning over the Bulls but you can't get outrebounded by 15+ and miss the number of shots they did and expect to win.
The only thing preventing this team from being really good is a consistent outside shooter. Dunleavy is really hit or miss (as is Jennings) and that's not really Ellis' game either.
Much like Boston, the Bulls are a team that seem to have Milwaukee's number. The Bucks did a nice job turning over the Bulls but you can't get outrebounded by 15+ and miss the number of shots they did and expect to win.
The only thing preventing this team from being really good is a consistent outside shooter. Dunleavy is really hit or miss (as is Jennings) and that's not really Ellis' game either.
No Dunleavy is not hot or miss, get him open looks and he'll knock them down.
The Bulls were in his face.
thats where they really missed Dalembert being out.
Jennings is just a terrible shooter, if he shoots well the Bucks will win
The Bulls were in his face.
thats where they really missed Dalembert being out.
Jennings is just a terrible shooter, if he shoots well the Bucks will win
The Bucks are no longer playing defense. There's some scouting out on them now- they aren't good enough to adjust. Jennings and Ellis have been taken out of their comfort zones and they don't have the horses to pick up the slack. You cannot keep giving up 30-40 point first Qs and get down early and expect to win consistently.
They also stopped finishing games, which I think is a product of the scouting on them. Early on Ellis was finishing games with big 4th Qs. Against Miami, Chicago- they're not going to let Ellis beat them. In the clutch, teams have adjusted. Skiles needs to adjust now, because you cannot just clear out and have Ellis play Kobe in the clutch. He's demonstarted that now...
They also stopped finishing games, which I think is a product of the scouting on them. Early on Ellis was finishing games with big 4th Qs. Against Miami, Chicago- they're not going to let Ellis beat them. In the clutch, teams have adjusted. Skiles needs to adjust now, because you cannot just clear out and have Ellis play Kobe in the clutch. He's demonstarted that now...
I must be watching different games then because I've seen Dunleavy miss quite a few uncontested shots.
He's like a number of shooters when he's on he's on but he has a tendency to miss shots in bunches too.
He's like a number of shooters when he's on he's on but he has a tendency to miss shots in bunches too.