Packdog posted:Pack defense really played pretty well.
Holding the opposition to 13 should be good enough. Difficult to win when the offense is giving up defensive scores.
We're all fans of the greatest fcking NFL franchise- we disagree to what extent this team needs to retool, but let's remember for one night that the Green Bay Packers are a pleasant diversion from the negatives of life (and I am going through some of the worst imaginable right now) and something we can always be proud of as sports fans. And as always, fck the queens.
michiganjoe posted:I think the turning point of the season was when opposing defenses figured out how to basically shut the passing game down and the braintrust at 1265 had no answer. MM desperately needs to bring a fresh set of eyes in to evaluate the offense and retool as necessary.
It makes you wonder what the heck the offensive staff was looking at week to week - because the same stuff kept getting trotted out. Lots of iso routes, same 3 WR sets (and personnel - JJ, Cobb, Adams), empty backfield, little play action. MM kept commenting on winning one-on-one battles, but why keep issuing the same challenge when the results keep coming back the same? MM started out the Vikes game with a run-heavy look and completely went away from it.
Rodgers has now gone 10 straight games with a passer rating below 100. His longest streak before this was 4 games in the middle of the 2010 season.
CAPackFan95 posted:2010 Regular Season
Pts/Game 2nd overall at 15.02015 Regular Season
Pts/Game 10th overall at 20.2
To be fair, those numbers include interceptions and fumbles returned for TD's, which aren't on the defense.
Packers offense gave up 21 points in the last 2 games on INT/Fumble scores. The offense also only scored 21 points the last 2 games. They've been a net zero.
Look, by every objective and measurable criteria, the 2010 defense was the 2nd best defense in all of football and significantly better than this year's defense. By a long shot.
If you want to claim this year's is better, you're wrong objectively in every way, but if it makes you feel better, have at it.
CAPackFan95 posted:Look, by every objective and measurable criteria, the 2010 defense was the 2nd best defense in all of football and significantly better than this year's defense. By a long shot.
If you want to claim this year's is better, you're wrong objectively in every way, but if it makes you feel better, have at it.
Really I was just pointing out how bad the offense has been. No need to get testy.
vitaflo posted:CAPackFan95 posted:Look, by every objective and measurable criteria, the 2010 defense was the 2nd best defense in all of football and significantly better than this year's defense. By a long shot.
If you want to claim this year's is better, you're wrong objectively in every way, but if it makes you feel better, have at it.
Really I was just pointing out how bad the offense has been. No need to get testy.
The 2010 defense somehow gained traction and cohesiveness because of or despite the number of injuries. This defense has been an unexpected surprise through 16 games, and even been good enough to gut out wins. But I think comparing the two is apples to oranges. The D this year has held it together more than anyone could have expected. It's just evident they've gotten no help from the offense. In 2010, they had the benefit of an offense that teams had to respect and a unit that could put drives together and spell the D.
I don't understand the revisionist history going on here. The 2010 defense was better in every single measurable way. And, the 2010 offense was not this juggernaut that enabled that defense. That 2010 team in the regular season struggled. Not nearly as ugly as they've looked this year, but it was by no means anything like the 2011 or 14 teams that were absolutely dominant. In fact, the 2010 offense in regular season was the lowest scoring of AR's tenure until this year.
The 2008 team offense finished 5th overall in scoring at 26.2
The 2009 team offense finished 3rd overall in scoring at 28.8
The 2010 team offense finished 10th overall in scoring at 24.2
The 2011 team offense finished 1st overall in scoring at 35.0
The 2012 team offense finished 5th overall in scoring at 27.1
The 2013 team offense finished 8th overall in scoring at 26.1
The 2014 team offense finished 1st overall in scoring at 30.4
The 2015 team offense finished 13th overall in scoring at 23.7
The 2010 team defense finished 2nd overall in scoring at 15.0
The 2015 team defense finished 2nd overall in scoring at 20.2
The defense in 2010 got exactly 0.5 more points per game in support from the offense than the 2015 defense.
This is not in any way absolving the 2015 team from it's absolute joke of an offense, but it is a total defense of the 2010 defensive unit which was better in every single way that anything we field today.
Our defense really only gave up 10 pts. Vikes got in FG range on the fake punt, which is on STs
Since defense wins playoff games then the Packers are in great shape.
I loved the way they came out in the bone, hammered the ball and got one really nice play-action pass mixed in there. Then Starks comes in, they go to 2 TEs on the line and can't run the ball. By now they should have figured out using Richard Rodgers as a blocking tight end on the line is just like playing with 10 players because the guy couldn't block a 5-year old. So that doesn't work and instead of going back to the bone the Packers decide to go with the 3-receiver sets and put the pass-catchers that make no impact back on the field. Why the team keeps insisting on doing things on offense that hasn't worked for 2 months is puzzling to say the least.
What Packerjoe said. Gave up on Lacey way too early.
Great, next week we finally get to see all those amazing plays MM installed on the offense back in August but was saving for the playoffs. Fleaflickers to Janis...
PackerJoe posted:So that doesn't work and instead of going back to the bone the Packers decide to go with the 3-receiver sets and put the pass-catchers that make no impact back on the field. Why the team keeps insisting on doing things on offense that hasn't worked for 2 months is puzzling to say the least.
Didn't work? Rodgers had more yards passing in the 4th than in the 1st 3 quarters combined. If he throws to the sideline to Jones in the endzone instead of inside the game would have been tied at the worst and maybe even a win if they made a 2 pointer. Your take of the game is what is puzzling.
It always hurts bad to lose to the Queens ever. But looking at that game last night the defense was not bad and they should be livid at the special teams and offense for this one. They held Peterson in check and Bridgewater never got it going.
As for the offense? If you watch the WR's they just seem to stop on their routes. If Rodgers is scrambling they should be moving around to help him out but they just kind of stop and stand around. Richard Rodgers is slower than me (and that is saying something), they get away from the running game too quickly, and they don't run any slant routes for quick completions, and just seem to have gotten away from the rhythm offense.
Green Bay was 2 of 15 on third downs (13 percent), its worst percentage of the season and the second time this season it converted only twice in a game.
ammo - the 4th qtr yards by Rodgers had little to do with the plays called. They went School-Yard again and had success.
How about Josh Sitton taking care of business at LT. He had one play that he struggled with Griffen that led to the sack/fumble, but in general he was a mauler at LT. Gotta give the big man credit, that wasn't an easy transition to make and he rose to the occasion!
ammo posted:PackerJoe posted:So that doesn't work and instead of going back to the bone the Packers decide to go with the 3-receiver sets and put the pass-catchers that make no impact back on the field. Why the team keeps insisting on doing things on offense that hasn't worked for 2 months is puzzling to say the least.
Didn't work? Rodgers had more yards passing in the 4th than in the 1st 3 quarters combined. If he throws to the sideline to Jones in the endzone instead of inside the game would have been tied at the worst and maybe even a win if they made a 2 pointer. Your take of the game is what is puzzling.
Maybe that's what the strategy is? Play possum until the team is down by 3 scores and then crank up the passing offense. Rodgers had roughly 75 passing yards past the 40 minute mark of the football game (Minnesota scored the touchdown to put them up by 17 with 4:28 remaining in the 3rd quarter). It was only at that point where the pass offense showed any life.
But it was apparent right from the beginning that it would be a long night for the offense. They ran the ball on that first drive and went right down the field until they got into the red zone. Once they got there it was pass-pass-pass and then kick the field goal. The first pass was reasonable as the DB was way off Jones and it was a nice sight adjustment for an easy 8 yards. But then they were in 2nd and 2 and they didn't even attempt a run...pass, pass and then field goal.
After that the bone largely disappeared and so did the entire offense...that is until Minnesota was up by 17 points.
I counted maybe 5-6 times in last nights game where Jones, Cobb, and Adams all ran route trees directly at deep safeties. I mean, directly at them. There was one Adams route where he ran an end zone post, broke directly into Sendejo's lap, and just terminated his route. I mean, Adams went out of his way to find Sendejo. It was the damnedest thing I've ever seen.
Green Bay must have decided a month ago they weren't putting anything on film for the playoffs, right? That cant be the game plan for the postseason, right? I mean, I get struggling to get separation. But it's hard to gain separation when you're designing route trees directly at safeties.
I remember that Adams route vividly. This team desperately needs a fresh voice with fresh ideas on the offensive side of the ball. Defenses just know what's coming and it's incredibly easy to gameplan for this offense
ChilliJon posted:I counted maybe 5-6 times in last nights game where Jones, Cobb, and Adams all ran route trees directly at deep safeties. I mean, directly at them. There was one Adams route where he ran an end zone post, broke directly into Sendejo's lap, and just terminated his route. I mean, Adams went out of his way to find Sendejo. It was the damnedest thing I've ever seen.
Green Bay must have decided a month ago they weren't putting anything on film for the playoffs, right? That cant be the game plan for the postseason, right? I mean, I get struggling to get separation. But it's hard to gain separation when you're designing route trees directly at safeties.
Many of us saw/seen this watching the TV view. I wonder if the coaches / players will see this on the coaches/ALL-22 tape?
There was another play where Cobb ran a short crossing route and with the LB underneath in coverage RC stopped and reversed direction, only to have the LB do the same, then it looked as if Cobb was following/defending the LB?
Gameplanning for any team is not hard for NFL coaches, there aren't many surprises in the NFL anymore. The hard part for defenses in the past was decided how aggressive to be and what aspect to our O they should try to limit. The deep explosive plays were the focus and it opened up a lot of underneath stuff for Cobb and the running game. There's no deep threat so teams are committing to taking away the underneath stuff and the running game...and they're playing aggressive. Until they get some kind of deep threat, defenses will execute simple game plans with much success.
If the offense is a horse with four legs: running game, short passing, intermediate passing, and deep passing then we are a horse with 3 legs. None of the other 3 legs function as well when the 4th leg is missing. Best analogy I could come up with after staying up late with the game and getting up early for work! 
Hungry5 posted:There was another play where Cobb ran a short crossing route and with the LB underneath in coverage RC stopped and reversed direction, only to have the LB do the same, then it looked as if Cobb was following/defending the LB?
Kendricks should never be able to cover Cobb and he had him blanketed. Then again Cobb helped him out in coverage.
I can't ever remember WR's running routes, turning them directly into coverage and then kind of giving up on the route because there's a defender standing there. I don't want to come off like it was that all night, but enough times where you just watched it and said, Why does this keep happening at all?
I incompletely get why Aaron decided to go Julio down by the school yard in the 4th. That passing game as drawn up during the week wasn't getting anything done last night.
Grave Digger posted:How about Josh Sitton taking care of business at LT. He had one play that he struggled with Griffen that led to the sack/fumble, but in general he was a mauler at LT. Gotta give the big man credit, that wasn't an easy transition to make and he rose to the occasion!
If the spirit of this post was to credit Sitton with a gutsy effort considering his body is beat-up and he was completely out of position at LT, I agree.
But let's be clear, nothing about that performance was "taking care of business." Griffen had the defining play of the game and was consistently wreaking havoc on the passing game. Finally in the 4th quarter they started chipping at him with Kuhn to slow him down.
I'm still dumbfounded that the "brain trust" in GB somehow found themselves in a position where they moved an All-Pro LG to LT on the final game of the season because a single starter was injured. That is an indictment on this entire organization from TT on down. It's one thing if you're down to your 5th tackle or something and make this move in desperation. But it took 16 games + those awful preseason performances for GB to realize Barclay can't play tackle. Unbelievable.
Griffen had 2 explosive plays from what I saw. That's better than I expected for a guy in his first ever start at LT with no help. He got the better of Griffen more often than Griffen got the better of him.
I can't ever remember WR's running routes, turning them directly into coverage and then kind of giving up on the route because there's a defender standing there. I don't want to come off like it was that all night, but enough times where you just watched it and said, Why does this keep happening at all?
Might I also ask, where the hell was Abby? Here's a guy according to AR who runs the best routes, has decent speed, is far more sure handed than Adams and yet was nowhere to be found. Just mind boggling they could not find or create plays to feature him.
EDIT: I can't remember which local news rag had the quote, but an NFC scout was asked about the GB WR's earlier this season and he said it's widely known in the NFL that if you smack our WR's in the mouth, they will fold. He mentioned both Adams and Cobb in particular and if you review games this season especially you can see it. They don't handle jams at the LOS well and won't fight to stay in their routes. They also do little if anything to fight for a ball that is 50/50 to either them or the DB. To me, that's much more of a coaching indictment than it is a talent issue. These WR's are just soft.
Grave Digger posted:Griffen had 2 explosive plays from what I saw. That's better than I expected for a guy in his first ever start at LT with no help. He got the better of Griffen more often than Griffen got the better of him.
I think it was an admirable performance by Sitton, but not necessarily an effective one. Let's face it, if Griffen delivered that performance against Marshall Newhouse, everyone would be complaining about Newhouse. Of course, Newhouse was trained as a tackle and Sitton was not, which makes it an admirable performance. Completely ridiculous he was put in that position. Again, how this GM and coaching staff thought Barclay could serve as the primary back-up tackle is beyond any fan. We all saw the horrific pre-season performance in Pitt.
In the post game show last night they said Sitton found out he was starting at LT a few hours before the game. WTF?
Sitton said post-game that he was told last Monday that he might have to play LT depending on Bakh and took reps there in practice. The comment about a few hours before the game was based on the last minute evaluation of Bakhtiari's status. That's when the final decision was made.
Tough game to watch. I like what the defense showed though, but the offense is painful. I don't want to just give Rodgers a pass but hard to play QB in this league when your line can't block and receivers can't get open. He can barely step up in the pocket and gets flushed well before any routes have developed. Yes he's been inaccurate but after 8 sacks last week, are you surprised he has happy feet?
I know we still have a game next week.......but would be nice to see MM bring in an outsider to revamp this offense. Seems like Clements rode the overall success of the offense to a very undeserved assistant head coach title.
The "outsider" I want brought in is Sean Payton for OC. Don't know if he'd want to though.
I thought the backup LT was supposed to be Bulaga, ie: shift Bulaga over there and have Barclay play RT. However, Bulaga has been pretty bad this year so doubt the coaches wanted to move him and weaken both tackle positions
Of course, Barclay was never the same coming back from his 2014 knee injury. Before that, he seemed like a solid #6 lineman (to play RG and RT) so I don't blame TT and MM for going with him this year. But it's clear he's lost the little athleticism he had and just can't play tackle anymore. Maybe he gets further past this injury in the offseason but TT better have a plan in case he doesn't.
I have no faith in Eddie Lacy. Maybe he is banged up, I don't know. Extending him would be a mistake.
Granted, he needs a compliment that is not James Starks. Nothing wrong with Starks per se, but a speed threat (who can also catch the ball) would be nice. I don't see Starks back next year, so perhaps Ted finds that running back in the middle rounds.
Boris posted:The "outsider" I want brought in is Sean Payton for OC. Don't know if he'd want to though.
There is ZERO change Sean Payton takes a coordinator position. None. You have a better shot at OC than Payton.
Stop going all Jenner on me