So is calling Datone Jones a 'bust'.
What do you call a first round pick who wasn't re-signed and produced almost nothing? You could be kind and call him average, but overall he was a wasted pick.
I was being generous with Elliot. He's been average, but I think he's capable of being good.
Grave Digger posted:What do you call a first round pick who wasn't re-signed and produced almost nothing?
A Viking?
antooo posted:So is calling Datone Jones a 'bust'.
Exactly. Big difference between being a bust and a HUGE disappointment, immature player with poor discipline.
You forgot, "People put too much into results".
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So what we are saying is a good defense is like wine. It gets better with age and if you get enough of it, it will knock you out?
El-Keston-Hiura posted:
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Ghost of Lambeau posted:So what we are saying is a good defense is like wine. It gets better with age and if you get enough of it, it will knock you out?
The morning after is always dehydrating at best. Could be why we struggle with groin pulls?
From Mike Daniels:
"Here's the deal -- I'd like to see anybody take a bunch of rookies and put them on the defensive line and at inside linebacker and have the No. 8 run defense in the NFL. And if you take away two plays, we're the No. 2 run defense.
"Then, look at -- OK, we had a lot of young guys on the back end. On top of them being young guys, they were hurt. One guy had a hernia surgery in season and continued to play (Damarious Randall). Still No. 6 in sacks. So for us to have had the success we had, still make it to the NFC Championship game with as banged up as we were on the back end, I think we did a heck of a job. Especially against teams coming in full power all season."
I didn't realize it was hernia surgery, that had to be rough. You don't get points for trying, but these guys get an A for effort. Hope the whole crew comes into to '17 with a chip on their shoulder and can stay healthy.
Compelling evidence, GD. Still skeptical, but at least, I am now considering the prospect that this defense performs.
Probably time for YA Title to start a "last call" thread for Packers in Super Bowl LII
If not for a few injuries, the Vikings would have 12 Super Bowls.
Injuries? I thought it was the refs...and the hatred the NFL have for them.
El-Keston-Hiura posted:If not for a few injuries, the Vikings would have 12 Super Bowls.
Mike Daniels will smash your face into a jelly.
If Dom Capers was the Vikings DC. They lose more than four Super Bowls. Or they never make it to the four they lost. Either way, it's not good. Think about it.
Daniels' excuses would ring truer if last season was an anomaly. It wasn't.
That's true, they did make the NFCC for the 3rd time 8 seasons. A pattern does appear to be developing. Only 2 other teams have made the conference championship 3 times in the same span: only the Patriots can top that and only the 49ers have equaled that (who did it 3 years in a row and then fizzled out). In fact GB and NE are the only teams to make the playoffs every year in that time span. I know it's hard to win in the NFL, but that's a lot of suckage.
Waiting to hear Daniels' excuses for the awful performances of the defense in 2012, 2013 and 2015.
Some tid bits:
BORN TO RUN – The much-maligned defense still might not be talented enough and the coaches still might not be good enough, but nobody will be able to blame a lack of speed if that side of the ball implodes again in January. Thanks to additions made in the past two offseasons, this is the fastest D the Packers have fielded in years.
If all goes according to plan, the starting dime package will consist of Clay Matthews, Nick Perry, Mike Daniels and either Dean Lowry or rookie Montravius Adams up front, rookie Josh Jones at linebacker, and rookie Kevin King, Davon House, Damarious Randall, Quinten Rollins, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix and Morgan Burnett in the secondary. That’s quite a difference from the past few years when tortoises like Mike Neal, A.J. Hawk, Brad Jones, Nate Palmer, M.D. Jennings and Micah Hyde played prominent roles on passing downs.
BIGGER AND (HOPEFULLY) BETTER – I’m still concerned about the pass rush, but I’m not quite as concerned as I was a few months ago. That’s because many of the young outside linebackers enjoyed good springs.
Nobody stood out more than Kyler Fackrell. Last year’s third-round pick needed to get a lot stronger, and at least by the look of his physique, he did. Whether that translates to the field won’t be known until the pads go on, but it’s certainly a positive sign. Other young outside linebackers who impressed at times were Jayrone Elliott, Reggie Gilbert and Johnathan Calvin. And the player with perhaps the best chance of making an impact as a pass rusher in 2017, rookie Vince Biegel, missed most of the offseason with a foot injury.
heyward posted:Waiting to hear Daniels' excuses for the awful performances of the defense in 2012, 2013 and 2015.
packerboi posted:That’s quite a difference from the past few years when tortoises like Mike Neal, A.J. Hawk, Brad Jones, Nate Palmer, M.D. Jennings and Micah Hyde played prominent roles on passing downs.
If Nate Palmer and MD Jennings are playing a prominent role in anything then your excuse is built in. Sadly this collection of mediocre players were arguably the best players available for their positions.
Tough to get talent on BOTH sides of the ball drafting at the back end of every round for nearly 10 years. They've missed on some higher round picks, like every team does, but it's even more difficult to backfill in the later rounds when you're picking at the end of those rounds too.
It was really our fault for having ever expected a good defense from Dom, shame on us.
Kam Chancellor and Richard Sherman were 5th round picks, Bobby Wagner was a round 2 pick. Michael Bennett was a UFA that signed for 4 million. There's 4 key cogs of Seattles championship D that weren't round 1 picks. I don't buy the late 1st round excuse for not finding D talent, Ted seems to prefer underrated guys that haven't reached their ceiling yet rather than established college performers. It's worked out with some guys like Perry and Matthews, and getting established college performers doesn't always work out (Abdul Hodge), but the fact is that the D has been lacking in talent for years. Ted needs to adjust his method for finding D talent.
Or the fact is the defense has underperformed due to ****ty coaching #alternatefacts
Maybe they have, doesn't change the fact that the talent has been lacking. I can't wrap my head around why you believe MD Jennings was good enough or Brad Jones/Nate Palmer/Jamari Lattimore/DJ Smith/Sam Barrington were good enough. How can any coach "make it work" with 50% of his BPA's being mediocre at best?
I, and @FreeSafety, know how to fix the defense.
SCORE MORE POINTS!!!!!
I never said MDJennings was good enough, I just said the defense consistently underperforms because #domcaperssucks. "Score more points" has been the only hope for this team and it has (mostly AR) brought them incredible success despite **** defense over and over again. AR doesn't even get the benifit of high picks to make the o consistently good.
i do blame Ted and MCStupidface for not ****canning Capers a long time ago,
So if you have players who aren't good enough, how can you expect the unit to play well overall? A defense is the sum of its parts, would you have expected the D to stop an offense with only 9 players on the field? I would hope not, regardless of the coordinator. That's more or less what was happening with multiple players who weren't capable of doing their job.
I personally think the woes the defense has been having lies somewhere between drafting the talent, coaching the talent, injuries, the defensive scheme, and defensive attitude. Another thought I have had is that college football in some conferences don't bother with defense (Big 12 and PAC 10 come to mind) so it may be harder than ever to find defensive talent.
The question for me is how do you fix it? So after thinking about it I think it is a perfect storm of lack of talent. I agree with with gravedigger on that I think it is a talent issue. as he said when you have to piece together a D with the likes of Brad Jones/Nate Palmer/Jamari Lattimore/DJ Smith etc. you will struggle. But I also put a ton of blame at the feet of Capers. His defenses don't seem to be as aggressive anymore and I honestly think teams have figured out his schemes.
Heckler you said it well. Except for the lack of depth at OLB, we have a real chance to prove if its the scheme or the players this season. If we don't lose too many players to injury we will see if its the scheme by how we play this year. Because I think we now have better players taking the field. So we will be good enough to get into the playoffs. After that, who knows? The NE defense looks mighty good for when we face them in the Superb owl.