We are Russell Wilson days away from the start of the NFL Season.
— Boston Connor (@BostonConnr) September 6, 2021
3 days till NFL Football. pic.twitter.com/bS3dDiuyUo
Tyrod taylor to start for Texans. Deshaun Satson remains on the 53 man roster but will be a healthy scratch for the entire season.
@PackerHawk posted:Their decision is not what is best for their team. It's the exact opposite of what's best for the team. And some of these same people that are going with the "my body, my choice" line are the same people that want to take that right away from pregnant women.
When one of these guys ends up costing their team a win due to forcing players into quarantine or worse yet a forfeit that is going to cost all their teammates a full game check there is going to be hell to pay in the locker room.
And the excuses are the best part.
1. We don't know the long term effects of the vaccine: Same players know the long term effects of concussions and they continue to play knowing full well the risk involved.
2. It's not fully FDA approved: Well, now it is. Cross this one off the list.
3. I need to do more research: Bullshit. Everything you want to know is out there. Talk to a doctor if you have questions. Don't talk to so called experts on social media.
4. It's a personal matter: Yeah, of course it is. It is for everyone. Make sure you save that sentiment for Julie when she decides that the right decision for her is to terminate her pregnancy.
I have a PhD in Molecular Biology and have run a research lab for over 20 years. Two members of my graduate thesis committee won Nobel Prizes by using viruses to understand some of the most fundamental aspects of biology. My post-doc advisor is also a Nobel Laureate and has worked on viruses for 50 years. We use viruses as tools to study biology in our lab and have for 30 years. My two daughters, brother, cousin who grew up on the same family farm, and sister-in-law all have or will have MDs or PhDs (or both) and work in biomedical research and have extensive experiences working with or studying viruses. My sister-in-law works on immunotherapy for a major pharma company.
We will have talks with extended family members who tell us they have done the Kirk Cousins types of "research" and are reluctant to or haven't gotten the vaccine. We tell them we all have had years of training in research, in many cases we personally know the people in the companies that developed the vaccine, and some of us know Tony Fauci and his lab personnel. We also personally know physicians and nurses who have treated dozens of COVID patients and watched them die. We (and our immediate family members) all got the vaccine the first day we were eligible.
We tell people this and tell them that based on our literally decades of cumulative training that any risk of long-term effects of these viruses is remote and that even then, the risks of actually getting COVID are exponentially orders of magnitude worse than the risks of the vaccine. In some cases after having a very calm and open discussion about this, the vax-hesistant extended family members and friends say things like "Well, Joe Rogan said on his podcast that X, Y, or Z" or "I heard on Tucker Carlson that X, Y, or Z" as justifications for arguments against our points.
If I want to know how best to fix my car, I find the best mechanic I can because I am not an expert in auto repair. If I want my children to get the best education possible, I try to find teachers or professors who have decades of training and experience in how best to teach their specific subjects. I know I am an expert in some things but not an expert in most things. I rely on experts with clear credentials or experience in those areas to teach or write articles or give talks to inform me.
Instead of this approach, in the greatest health crisis since the 1918 flu, a large number of people have decided they'd rather listen to lunatic fringe, right-wing media personalities (amplified by Facebook friends) and end up taking fukking horse dewormer.
I grew up in a tiny rural town in Central Wisconsin and have spent my whole life telling people in universities and research hospitals that the people in small towns and rural areas are just as smart as anyone and often have outstanding work ethic and problem-solving skills. Then, many of these people that I have been talking up for years end up self-medicating with fukking horse dewormer instead of getting vaccinated.
Thank you MP2. My wife is a nurse. Every doctor at her hospital says what you said. Only a handful of her nurse associates are complaining about the coming mandatory vaccinations for health care workers.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:I have a PhD in Molecular Biology and have run a research lab for over 20 years. Two members of my graduate thesis committee won Nobel Prizes by using viruses to understand some of the most fundamental aspects of biology. My post-doc advisor is also a Nobel Laureate and has worked on viruses for 50 years. We use viruses as tools to study biology in our lab and have for 30 years. My two daughters, brother, cousin who grew up on the same family farm, and sister-in-law all have or will have MDs or PhDs (or both) and work in biomedical research and have extensive experiences working with or studying viruses. My sister-in-law works on immunotherapy for a major pharma company.
We will have talks with extended family members who tell us they have done the Kirk Cousins types of "research" and are reluctant to or haven't gotten the vaccine. We tell them we all have had years of training in research, in many cases we personally know the people in the companies that developed the vaccine, and some of us know Tony Fauci and his lab personnel. We also personally know physicians and nurses who have treated dozens of COVID patients and watched them die. We (and our immediate family members) all got the vaccine the first day we were eligible.
We tell people this and tell them that based on our literally decades of cumulative training that any risk of long-term effects of these viruses is remote and that even then, the risks of actually getting COVID are exponentially orders of magnitude worse than the risks of the vaccine. In some cases after having a very calm and open discussion about this, the vax-hesistant extended family members and friends say things like "Well, Joe Rogan said on his podcast that X, Y, or Z" or "I heard on Tucker Carlson that X, Y, or Z" as justifications for arguments against our points.
If I want to know how best to fix my car, I find the best mechanic I can because I am not an expert in auto repair. If I want my children to get the best education possible, I try to find teachers or professors who have decades of training and experience in how best to teach their specific subjects. I know I am an expert in some things but not an expert in most things. I rely on experts with clear credentials or experience in those areas to teach or write articles or give talks to inform me.
Instead of this approach, in the greatest health crisis since the 1918 flu, a large number of people have decided they'd rather listen to lunatic fringe, right-wing media personalities (amplified by Facebook friends) and end up taking fukking horse dewormer.
I grew up in a tiny rural town in Central Wisconsin and have spent my whole life telling people in universities and research hospitals that the people in small towns and rural areas are just as smart as anyone and often have outstanding work ethic and problem-solving skills. Then, many of these people that I have been talking up for years end up self-medicating with fukking horse dewormer instead of getting vaccinated.
Fake news.
To your last paragraph, I can relate to the point where it's painful. My own family, who I've always known to be intellectual, rational thinkers are now just fucking batshit fruit loops at this point. It truly is a cult mentality and the fervor of it is mind boggling and insidious.
@Henry posted:Fake news.
To your last paragraph, I can relate to the point where it's painful. My own family, who I've always known to be intellectual, rational thinkers are now just fucking batshit fruit loops at this point. It truly is a cult mentality and the fervor of it is mind boggling and insidious.
What's really mind-boggling is the selective thinking involved. There have been many times over the years when extended family members or friends call me after they get a cancer diagnosis or have a severe orthopedic problem. I explain what I can to them and then will make some calls to get them an appointment with someone I know in a university hospital or medical school. In some cases, they will drive for hours out of state to see an expert I've put them in contact with. In at least a few cases, seeing a clinical expert in this type of setting has literally saved their lives. However, some of the same people likely think I'm part of the deep state for trying to talk them into getting vaccinated.
"“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
―
Brainwashing plain and simple. It happened in Germany in the 30's and it's happening here now.
Raymond Shaw is the kindest, warmest, bravest, most wonderful human being I’v ever known on my life.
I also have family members that have slid down that dark hole. I don't think they are ever coming back either. Definitely not the older ones.
If it were about rational estimation of relative risks, nearly everyone would be vaccinated by now. But it's about emotional loyalties. And you cannot argue someone out of their emotions.
I also know a number of militant anti-vaxxers. The only slightly effective engagement I've had was to ask "Who are you betraying by getting the vaccine?"
I understand why it happened and that it could happen, but it staggers me that a pandemic can devolve into becoming political. My brain has a hard time wrapping around the idea that some things are considered more important than people’s lives (especially the elderly and vulnerable).
As my father in law recently told me (in reference to the anti vax, COVID isn’t real crowd), a little cognitive dissonance can go a long way.
I recently learned of a former boss/mentor along with a well respected CEO I worked with in my past are 100% card carrying members of the previously mentioned fraternity of the non believers. These two individuals were highly successful, servant leaders. Yet they can carry on about conspiracy theories with the best of them.
That type of mindset really does seem to defy logic and reason. But it’s par for the course. We put more faith and trust in some loudmouth cable news anchor than a scientist or doctor. It really is amazing.
@justanotherpackerfan posted:I understand why it happened and that it could happen, but it staggers me that a pandemic can devolve into becoming political. My brain has a hard time wrapping around the idea that some things are considered more important than people’s lives (especially the elderly and vulnerable).
How many times have we heard the reasoning, “well it only kills old people”.Many of these people also claim to be Christians. They should read what it says in the Bible about the sanctity of life. ALL LIFE.
@Goalline posted:How many times have we heard the reasoning, “well it only kills old people”.Many of these people also claim to be Christians. They should read what it says in the Bible about the sanctity of life. ALL LIFE.
And also conveniently ignore all the people that are in the ICU but don't die. To date, UIHC has had 64 pediatric C-19 patients in the ICU.
And many C-19 patients have long term, possibly permanent issues. And you certainly don't have to be old or have underlying issues for this to happen. My niece and my co-worker both had C-19 back in November last year. They both still have issues with smell. Not serious issues but it's seeming like it could be permanent. My co-worker can no longer smell things like body odor or a nasty dookie. Might not be such a bad thing but who knows what other invisible damage he might have? My niece LOVES coffee and now coffee smells like a skunk to her. Kinda ruins the experience a little bit.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:I grew up in a tiny rural town in Central Wisconsin and have spent my whole life telling people in universities and research hospitals that the people in small towns and rural areas are just as smart as anyone and often have outstanding work ethic and problem-solving skills. Then, many of these people that I have been talking up for years end up self-medicating with fukking horse dewormer instead of getting vaccinated.
A side issue is that most smart people with any chance in rural areas leave due to lack of opportunity, skewing the numbers/ratio. Those remaining to fight the disinformation are trying to holler through a hurricane, as it were. Echo chambers certainly aren't exclusive to rural areas, but there's also less likely to be people you're in regular contact with that oppose the fictions, further ingraining the conspiracies.
As JAPF and others mentioned above, I do think there's something at play that can best be described as an inferiority complex among many people with conspiracy theories, and rural areas are ripe for it. They're generally shriveling and people see their way of life disappearing as they struggle to react to the changing landscape. Believing in conspiracy theories can give comfort that they're "in the know" above "all the" secondary-educated/urban/whatever people. It's a bit of personal power in a world devoid of it.
The other thing is how many people have issues dealing with complexities. They've found comfort in the simple because the reality is big, nuanced and messy. As Packer Hawk mentioned above, and to add an example: Numerous people I know who aren't otherwise devoid of intelligence still see C-19 in binary terms. They think they're in a low-risk group, citing the "survival rate" (which is also under the reality) but don't seem to compute the chance of other, long-term conditions that may be associated.
I had a HS classmate die last weekend from C-19. Her husband had it last year and was supposedly very sick, but avoided being hospitalized. He was still even anti-mask, etc. after. She was in the hospital for two weeks, the final one fully intubated. When one believes their deific creator will protect them, why don't they believe that same entity does so by sending gifts to/of people to create vaccines. doctors, etc.? Many other people of faith certainly see them as such.
Yes, I'm salty.
Attending my wife's 20 year high school reunion was an eye-opener. Two groups of people. Those who left town looking for a better opportunity were generally extremely intellectually advanced in their conversation and successful in their careers. Those who had chosen to remain in town(not all of them, but too many) still behaved like they were in high school. Couldn't get much more out of the conversation than how drunk they were going to get.
Wifey passed on the 25 and 30th reunion after that experience.
@Goalline posted:How many times have we heard the reasoning, “well it only kills old people”.Many of these people also claim to be Christians. They should read what it says in the Bible about the sanctity of life. ALL LIFE.
That part really pisses me off as well. When an otherwise fairly-healthy 70 or 80-year old dies of COVID that might be 6-8 years (or longer) less that they'll be able to know their grandkids or meet a great-grandkid. That's often the difference between a 4-year-old barely remembering their grandparent and a 10-year-old that gets to know them really well and remembers their stories and watches games and gets to talk to them about the old days of Packer football or even what life was like when they were a kid.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:That part really pisses me off as well. When an otherwise fairly-healthy 70 or 80-year old dies of COVID that might be 6-8 years (or longer) less that they'll be able to know their grandkids or meet a great-grandkid. That's often the difference between a 4-year-old barely remembering their grandparent and a 10-year-old that gets to know them really well and remembers their stories and watches games and gets to talk to them about the old days of Packer football or even what life was like when they were a kid.
So well put.
Sam Bam Cunningham -- RIP Sir. 
USC football great Sam "Bam" Cunningham, who went on to become the Patriots' all-time leading rusher, died today in Inglewood, California.
— NFL on ESPN (@ESPNNFL) September 7, 2021
He was 71. https://t.co/Bs61WLVqea
The ironic part of the whole C19 deal is…if the former occupant would have played his cards differently he still would likely be in the WH, his party would still be certainly be in the majority in the senate and possibly the house and he would be pushing the vax to get “his” economy rolling. And with him pushing the vax a good bunch of the currently anti vax folks would have rolled up their sleeves.
"Pushing the Vax to get his economy rolling" is assuming a helluva lot of common sense from someone who has no record of it.
Especially considering his record of dealing with the pandemic from start to eviction. Odds are he would've found some way to make it worse.
@Goalline posted:Attending my wife's 20 year high school reunion was an eye-opener. Two groups of people. Those who left town looking for a better opportunity were generally extremely intellectually advanced in their conversation and successful in their careers. Those who had chosen to remain in town(not all of them, but too many) still behaved like they were in high school. Couldn't get much more out of the conversation than how drunk they were going to get.
Wifey passed on the 25 and 30th reunion after that experience.
Such is the evolution of rural America. After generations of the most intellectually capable not coming "back home" to live, and few jobs requiring a college education in the area to bring new people in, you are left with population that becomes more and more segregated by intellectual levels.
@Pikes Peak posted:... And with him pushing the vax a good bunch of the currently anti vax folks would have rolled up their sleeves.
If that were true, the same logic should apply to the current administration and other Democratic supporters. But, the fact is, they remain the biggest group that haven't been vaccinated.
Of course, Biden has so much common sense that he's done such a wonderful job of dealing with it. 
@Timmy! posted:But, the fact is, they remain the biggest group that haven't been vaccinated.
Link?
Of course, Biden has so much common sense that he's done such a wonderful job of dealing with it.
Biden simply not contending a global pandemic is a "hoax" immediately makes his efforts a million fold more effective.
But then that fucking ship has sailed hasn't it.
Nope, not about politics.
Think about this for a second. The ENTIRE WORLD "planned" a global pandemic just to get him.
Think about the absolute fucking lunacy of that statement and then ask yourself a second question, did millions of people believe the same thing just because he said it?
There have been varying descriptors of such behavior throughout history.
Let’s choke the political talk, fellas. Nothing good will come of it. Fact is, there are antivaxxers aplenty on both sides:
@Pikes Peak posted:. And with him pushing the vax a good bunch of the currently anti vax folks would have rolled up their sleeves.
..and vice versa. There would be a crowd on the other side of the isle that wouldn't trust it from his Administration.
Especially considering his record of dealing with the pandemic from start to eviction.
Operation "Warp Speed" which brought us the vaccine before many thought it was possible was under that Administrations guidance. How much credit do they deserve? I don't know, but a reasonable person would take it under consideration when looking at his record of "dealing with the pandemic."
Link
As far as I know there isn't data on vax rates by political affiliation. There is data on racial groupings and right now the lowest per capita group is African Americans. Why? Lots of guesses there, such as, access and mistrust. That said, what we know is that the group is lagging behind and that the group overwhelming votes left. So, kinda a link for ya. Now, keep in mind that it is PER CAPITA and the racial group only makes up about 15% or so of the population. So it is NOT evidence that Dems remain the least vaccinated. One more but.. They also track by age and young people are the least likely age group to be vaxed and they are also more likely to vote Dem.
https://www.kff.org/coronaviru...ions-race-ethnicity/
Right brother?
@Timmy! posted:If that were true, the same logic should apply to the current administration and other Democratic supporters. But, the fact is, they remain the biggest group that haven't been vaccinated.
Of course, Biden has so much common sense that he's done such a wonderful job of dealing with it.
That's an interesting poll. The actual data of who has and has not is linked above.
I love the title "Warp Speed" What do they call it in every other freaking county that got vaccines in the same amount of time? "Operation Boris Brigade?" " Angela's Angels?"
For the record. I got my 2 shots during the Annoying Orange's rein as soon as I was eligible.
And "Warp Speed, Zulu!" somehow erases the fact he was informed and admitted the severity of the pandemic early on and instead told the public that like a miracle it would go away by Easter?
GTFO.
@BrainDed posted:Operation "Warp Speed" which brought us the vaccine before many thought it was possible was under that Administrations guidance. How much credit do they deserve? I don't know, but a reasonable person would take it under consideration when looking at his record of "dealing with the pandemic."
Link
As far as I know there isn't data on vax rates by political affiliation. There is data on racial groupings and right now the lowest per capita group is African Americans. Why? Lots of guesses there, such as, access and mistrust. That said, what we know is that the group is lagging behind and that the group overwhelming votes left. So, kinda a link for ya. Now, keep in mind that it is PER CAPITA and the racial group only makes up about 15% or so of the population. So it is NOT evidence that Dems remain the least vaccinated. One more but.. They also track by age and young people are the least likely age group to be vaxed and they are also more likely to vote Dem.
https://www.kff.org/coronaviru...ions-race-ethnicity/
Operation Warp Speed absolutely deserves praise. The problem is when thousands of people have to die for him to admit there’s a pandemic. It also doesn’t make sense to continually be antagonistic to all these efforts, including a vaccine unless it was advantageous for him.
It is this ongoing antagonism that has fueled a sizable portion of anti-vaxxers and saying otherwise is bullshit.
Young kids not doing the right thing? Really? Do you think it’s because they are young and dumb and not because of the antagonistic rhetoric spouted by the likes of Cousins? Some are obviously in that camp but the other dumdums are without a doubt stuck in the idiot 20’s “I’m invulnerable” stage.
On a hopeful note for those who will be vaccinated.
People who have been sick with COVID and then vaccinated have “super human” antibodies. Antibodies that can fight off entirely different strains like the SARS virus from the early 2000’s and pretty much any variant of COVID.
Correlation between vaccination rates and how they voted in 2020 by state. https://www.washingtonpost.com...olitics-vaccination/ Saw video with graphs showing same by county.
@Henry posted:Operation Warp Speed absolutely deserves praise. The problem is when thousands of people have to die for him to admit there’s a pandemic. It also doesn’t make sense to continually be antagonistic to all these efforts, including a vaccine unless it was advantageous for him.
It is this ongoing antagonism that has fueled a sizable portion of anti-vaxxers and saying otherwise is bullshit.
100% agree. My personal opinion is that his policy was sound. Try to close borders and ramp up production / distribution of a vaccine. The problem, per usual, was his mouth. An absolutely horrific leader.
