**Glazer Reports Lynch traded to Seahawks**

quote:

Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:
why does it always have to be one extreme or the other.

Ummm, b/c that's what we do in America. It's one extreme or the other. No middle ground.

IMO, the RB is just one piece of the puzzle in the running game (the others being the o-line and the play calls). Right now, all three are struggling. We have 2 RB's that have a hard time making the first guy miss and don't have that extra gear to hit the hole. The OL just isn't good at run blocking. We have 2 aging tackles that were never that good in the running game, an undersized center and a finesse guard. Sitton is the only guy that I would consider a good run blocer. Plain and simple, these guys have a hard time getting a good push and opening holes. And last, the play calling is terrible. That stretch play needs to go. All those slow developing plays need to go. This running game needs to just run forward and get their 3 yards per rush. This run game is just a complete failure across the board. All three pieces need to step up for it become effective.

quote:

Originally posted by CAPackFan95:

quote:

Originally posted by CJS:
However, if you don't see room for improvement in our RB's, I really don't see a point in continuing the discussion.

Nice laydown. And nice avoidance of all the points about the ZOMG AWESOME!!!eleven! running game of the 2008 Pittsburgh Steelers.

The running game sealed the victory today. Because MM actually decided to finally run the ball. Meanwhile precious Marshawn Lynch went 4 for 8 with a fumble.

But, please continue "not continuing the discussion" in order to avoid looking worse...

HAHAHAHA - seriously? Wow.

I've responded to the point about playoff teams and the running backs that have to be respected. You want to hang your hat on one Super Bowl where the Steelers took their 20-something ranked running attack, ran the ball for a half and passed in the second half as proof that the Packers don't need to upgrade at RB. Good for you. Personally, I think you have your head stuck in the sand.

As far as the state of the Packers, Billick pointed out that Rodgers was checking to runs because the Lions were all sitting on the pass. The one time we needed to run the ball and did was at the end of the game. It shows me the blocking isn't bad up the middle and it also showed me that Kuhn, with essentially fresh legs, can get the yards that are there for the taking. The rest of the game the Lions played pass and knew that even if Kuhn found the cutback, he's not taking it very far. I saw runs today where a faster RB would have ripped runs for 20+ yards or more. When there is no danger of an explosive play, there's no downside to what the Lions (or Bears) defenses did sitting back.

Lastly, no, I don't need to continue a discussion with someone who is just wasting my time. I am very comfortable with my position on this issue and that didn't change after the game today. You don't think MM's playcalling isn't an indication of HIS faith in the run game? You don't think we can improve upon our personnel at RB? We ran for 70ish yards today. Not sure why you think that's ok.

quote:

Originally posted by El-Ka-Bong:
why does it always have to be one extreme or the other. I'm all for upgrading the running game, but aware that this can still be a strong offensive team with the squad we have and the right playcalling. I'm OK with trading for a guy like Lynch (whom I don't particularly like) as long as the price isn't high. I most definitely do not belong to the "at all costs" camp who feel a 2nd and another pick is worth it for a guy like Lynch.

The offense was fine today against a decent Lion defense even without emphasizing the run. Even when Grant was healthy we did a lot of empty backfield. The short passing game can have the same effect as a good running game. MM didn't go away from the run, he just didn't emphasize it until he needed to run clock and it was effective.

I'd still rather have DB talent upgraded before I worry about the running game.

EKG, sounds like you have the same view as Coach, which is: the running game could use an upgrade, Lynch is a turd, but he's better than we what we have, but let's not trade more than a 3rd. I agree with everything there except for the round of the pick. I'd go one higher, preferably attached to performance.

As for the secondary, you might be right that it's higher priority. However, is there a team out there with expendable CB's who is willing to trade?

quote:

Originally posted by chickenboy:

quote:

Originally posted by CAPackFan95:
Jospeh Addai in 2009
Edgerrin James in 2008
Willie Parker in 2008
Laurence Maroney in 2007

You really don't believe that BJack/Kuhn is "on the same caliber" as these guys? Every one of them (except James) are better NOW than Kuhn/Bjack much less then. Cue the stats...

ooh, but Kuhn had 4 good minutes at the end of the game. Godsend! He's the answer! - Even with his good 4 minutes he and Bjax went for 72 total yards on 18 carries. Respectable, but really not good enough. Especially against a team like Detroit. They have a good pass rush and a not-so-good run D. We should be thrashing them on the ground. But since we are extremely limited at HB we got absolutely worked by Detroit today. We are 100% lucky, just like the Bears were luck to beat us last week. Dog**** game IMO.

I don't think the Packers are all that bad as far as CBs go. Woodson is clearly hurting, but Williams plays well and Shields has done fine so far as a nickelback. I suspect Underwood will be next in line instead of Bush once he is really healthy (he still has to play with a harness). Safety is what it is with Burnett and Martin across from Collins. When Bigby and Harris get back they should have as much depth as any team.

The real problem with the pass defense is the ILBs. Barnett, Hawk, and even Chillar have trouble covering RBs and TEs (Bishop is so assignment challenged that he can't even get on the field). That is a problem that will be with this team for some time.

Jones or Zombo could help if they develop. A healthy Neal will also improve the pass rush.

saguaro

saguaro you can add that the ILB don't seem to be effective blitzers either that or the pack telegraph the blitz and its easy for the opposition to pick it up

The biggest difference in the game today was that Shields was out and the OC of Detroit recognized that and went right after his replacement (Bush). We all know how that's going to turn out. At least he practices well

It was nice to see Kuhn seal the win, but good grief our running game needs help. Maybe that's Starks, maybe it's Nance. I simply don't know, but teams will figure out a way to to contain the passing game and we need to at least be able to feature something called a running game.

I don't care if it's a 3rd round pick and Hawk to get Lynch. TT needs to make that deal.

Im really interested to see what Starks can do. If they really think he is that good, that must be why they havent made a move. It wouldn't be the first time a 5th round running back came into the NFL and did well. I just don't know if putting alot of eggs into the basket of a guy on the PUP list and was a 5th round pick is necessarily wise.

Hawk has been playing better than Chillar has (prior to inactivity) IMO. This is the 2nd week in a row he seemed very active out there.

quote:

It wouldn't be the first time a 5th round running back came

Which 5th round RB is that?

quote:

Originally posted by Diggr14:
If they really think he is that good, that must be why they havent made a move.

That hasn't been established at all.

I personally don't think they've 100% closed the door on him contributing this year, but I sincerely doubt that's the reason a move hasn't been made (yet).

Just for the sake of the discussion, if the target is Lynch what incentive is there for Buffalo to move him prior to the actual deadline?

The Bills could have an injury at the position, or another team (or more) could suffer a RB injury too (thus conceivably driving up the price).

The only party (somewhat) involved that's in a hurry to DO SOMETHING here would be certain elements within Packer (fan) Nation.

quote:

Name a single super bowl running back on the same caliber as Kuhn/Jackson.

Pittman is no world better.

And I know the 84-85 Dolphins had Tony Nathan.

Well done, but again, those teams had dominant defenses, probably better special teams and probably fewer penalties than this squad.

quote:

Originally posted by Tschmack:
I don't care if it's a 3rd round pick and Hawk to get Lynch. TT needs to make that deal.

Marshawn Lynch's line for the game yesterday...

4 carries
8 yards
1 fumble lost

Yes, that is certainly worth a 3rd round pick PLUS a starting LB'er. I'm fully on board with over-paying for a RB of this caliber.

But but but...Lynch isn't at fault for the 38 points the D gave up.

And this is why the Bills wanted to wait another week or two

" With LeSean McCoy out indefinitely with a broken rib, the Eagles have contacted the Bills about the availability of veteran running back Marshawn Lynch, a league source said today."

link

Here we go. Bidding war time, although TT will not overpay. The steeley-eyed assassin doesn't blink when playing poker

I pikked lynch up for my ffl based on your opinions in this thread. Played him in fact, cause he's being showcased. -1.2 points. That'll teach me.

Yeah, there was no reason for them to deal Lynch unless someone overpaid. It should be interesting to see what he goes for in the end.

Pablo - I'd keep Lynch reserved until he's traded. Once he learns the playbook, I expect him to be a man running with a big chip on his shoulder. I think he's a good pick up for you long-term.

quote:

Originally posted by Satori:
And this is why the Bills wanted to wait another week or two

" With LeSean McCoy out indefinitely with a broken rib, the Eagles have contacted the Bills about the availability of veteran running back Marshawn Lynch, a league source said today."

The Eagles needs to contact teams about OL. They were almost as bad as the Bears yesterday. Fat Albert even took them outside the woodshed.

quote:

Originally posted by CJS:
Well done, but again, those teams had dominant defenses, probably better special teams and probably fewer penalties than this squad.

Since you move the goal post repeatedly (first it's name a back that about the same career wise as BJax, then there are qualifiers for defense, etc, etc. etc. etc.) Let's try it this way, since less than average running backs are only relevant when their are issues with defense or special teams or penalties.

Name me a team that was able to overcome a less than dominant defense, less than average special teams, and lots of penalties yet still win the Super Bowl solely on the strength of their running game that is on par with Marshawn Lynch.

Surely, there must be dozens.

I think you guys named Pittman and maybe one other. Say it's even 3 or 4 in the history of the NFL. I personally don't think those odds are very good. My thought has been to improve those odds by improving at a position where we had a significant drop off in talent when Grant went down. There has been speculation that Grant might not be kept due to significant roster bonuses (next season) as well. It just so happens that the Bills have a surplus, so I felt it was worth discussing. I still do - but am feeling less and less like this Packers team is as close to a Super as I thought. Especially with the injuries this weekend. To be clear, there's a LONG way to go and you never know what could happen, so at this point, I'd still make a deal to see if we could create a juggernaut offense to off-set some of the team's short-comings.

Anyway, I've made my position clear - I'd trade up to a 2nd rounder (preferably conditional) for Lynch. I would not trade Hawk or any other starter for that matter. If a deal can not be made within those parameters, then we pass and the Bills can sit on their 3 running backs on their way to another season of 4 wins or less.

You're not thinking clearly. This is 2010 now and ALL teams have flaws. There are no "dynasties". Like Armored Saint said yesterday...

"Somewhere Pete Rozelle is smiling"

The league wants every team at 8-8. It generates interest across the entire country and means more revenue. Simple economics.

The Packers are one of the best teams in the NFL right now. Will that continue? I hope so but it's a long season

FJack not happy if he would come cheaper.

http://www.buffalonews.com/spo...fl/article209444.ece

And hey, he can return kicks as well!

quote:

Originally posted by Boris:
You're not thinking clearly. This is 2010 now and ALL teams have flaws. There are no "dynasties". Like Armored Saint said yesterday...

I realize that Boris, which makes it almost impossible to involve historical data in the discussion. Thing is, the offense is good. They will score points. Could they be even better with a more well-rounded RB? I say yes. And I think that a better RB could lead to better time of possession against the better teams in this league. This is supposed to be the easy part of the schedule, yet we're struggling.

The reason for the Packers' struggles include: Pass defense, penalties, special teams, the running game. If MM can clean up penalties and Ted can get us a running back, we're a stronger team. And who knows what other injuries are on the horizon? If Grant hadn't gone down, this isn't a discussion for me, but he did, so here we are.

I know a trade right now would seem like a short-term move, but I think trading for Lynch is a great long-term trade. He's young, versatile, injury-free and will have something to prove. Our all-pro QB played with him in college and endorses a trade for him. It's probably 50/50 if a second round pick pans out while Lynch would be closer to 90% (IMO). And like a second round pick, Lynch could contribute for many years. Only issue is his off-field behavior and whether he wants to be in Green Bay.

Just think of it this way. The Packers will likely need to take an RB in the first 3 rounds in 2011. Is that RB likely to be better than Lynch? I personally don't think so.

Thing is CU, if Ted could have got him for a 3rd, I think he'd have done it by now. But we really don't know what goes on behind the scenes. (it sure would be fun to know)

Not that familiar with Lynch. What off the field problems has he had...drugs?, not a team player??

Mistaken identity too.

quote:

Originally posted by CJS:

I realize that Boris, which makes it almost impossible to involve historical data in the discussion. Thing is, the offense is good. They will score points. Could they be even better with a more well-rounded RB? I say yes. And I think that a better RB could lead to better time of possession against the better teams in this league. This is supposed to be the easy part of the schedule, yet we're struggling.

The reason for the Packers' struggles include: Pass defense, penalties, special teams, the running game. If MM can clean up penalties and Ted can get us a running back, we're a stronger team. And who knows what other injuries are on the horizon? .

No it doesn't. IMO, you just don't like the "historical data" that's been posted because it undercuts your take.

Yes, the offense is good. Could they better? Of course they could. So could the defense and ST.

Nobody and I mean NOBODY from the moment Grant went down has ever even once said "don't do anything" or that the RB position couldn't possibly be improved, that any of the existing backs were "the answer", or that any opportunities for a possible upgrade at the position shouldn't be explored. The question then moves on to "who" and "at what cost" where there's zero chance that everyone is going to agree 100% as to what they'd personally advocate parting with.

Some of us (I believe you've become fond of the perjorative "Homer") are simply (and correctly I might add) opinining that all is not lost if no move ends up being made (and providing evidence that supports it) if the existing talent is used properly. Which we just witnessed on the final drive Sunday when we ground out almost seven minutes of clock when we needed to.

We wanted to run the ball, we needed to run the ball....and we did run the ball. Which allegedly wasn't possible in that situation if you listen to some people around here.

quote:

Originally posted by CJS:
Thing is CU, if Ted could have got him for a 3rd, I think he'd have done it by now. But we really don't know what goes on behind the scenes. (it sure would be fun to know)

I actually think we should trade a second rounder for him. If that can't get it done, it's obvious the Bills are clueless. As of now, I'm leaning toward clueless, so I doubt it gets done.

Coach, I don't throw you into the Homer camp because you are capable of being critical of the team. Others not so much.

Where we disagree is that I think this team needs something more that we have at RB to have a realistic chance to win a Super Bowl. I don't think all is lost, I think it's "possible" that we could still make it to the Super Bowl with what we have. However, I think it's highly unlikely. We also disagree on the price for Lynch... by one round.

I don't think the historical data undercuts my take either. A couple of poor Super Bowl winning RB's in NFL history describes the odds pretty well actually.

This pussified NFL is a far cry from the 3 yards and a cloud of dust NFL of years gone by.

On ESPN just now Adam Shefter reported:

The Buffalo Bills seriously contemplated and nearly traded Marshawn Lynch last week but pulled the deal at the last minute. Shefter said the Bills are still considering trading him but it would take "at least a starting player and a draft pick" although that could soften by October 19th.

As Shefter is reporting this, of course ESPN is showing Packer highlights. He didn't say who the team was that nearly got him but chances are pretty good it was GB.

However-IF Chillar is indeed out for any extended period of time I would assume TT would take AJ Hawk off the table as they would now need him for depth.

And with the Packers being bit by the injury bug aside from an area like WR there is not a ton of depth for a starting player to be traded away to them. It's still interesting to know perhaps GB indeed almost got him last week.

And now any talks about Lynch will most likely include Philly, who are said to be interested after McCoy getting banged up. It's been said numerous times on this board, and I think it is true that Buffalo at this point not only doesn't know how to run a franchise, but is also holding up just stupid demands for Lynch. He's a decent RB, but by no means a superstar. I'd take Grant over him in a heartbeat, and IMO Thompson knows he can find something along the order of another Ryan Grant rather than be held at gunpoint by an idiot organization.

The injury bug also does probably make this trade less likely, as GB's depth would be put further at risk.

I believe something must be done as the season goes on. I believe this team may not be able to win games down the stretch without a dependable run game. But I also believe that Marshawn Lynch isn't the ONLY answer to this dilemma.

quote:

Originally posted by LarseeBear:
This pussified NFL is a far cry from the 3 yards and a cloud of dust NFL of years gone by.

THAT we can agree on.

As far as the Bills pulling out of the deal. Screw em. Enjoy being moved to Toronto.

I'm starting to think the Bills are completely whack. If they're going to trade a player then trade him. All this pussy-footing around can't be good for their locker room. The guy is going to work every day with a big stamp on his forehead that says "Trade Bait." And apparently, they are A.O.K with that?

quote:

Originally posted by artis:
The injury bug also does probably make this trade less likely, as GB's depth would be put further at risk.

And after seeing Burnett, Grant, Harrell, and maybe Chillar going down now you understand why TT covet's draft picks and why as much as he probably wanted (still wants) Lynch he's not going to give up the farm to get him.

Burnett should be ok after surgery. Operative term: should. But that's no guarentee. ACL's can end careers or at least transform the player so he's no longer what he was prior to it. Grant should be ok as well. But again he's closer to 30 then he is 20. And Chillar is simply unknown.

TT probably can get Lynch for an AJ Hawk and 2nd round pick.

But considering what just happened on the injury front that looks like even more of a kings ransom now then it did last week. And even last week that's ridiculous to trade for.

Look at the Bears and all the draft picks they coughed up as of late. A primary reason their franchise QB is nearly dead.

Shi* happens and you just can't forecast crap like injuries. A good thing TT can see that.

CBS Sportsline reports: (fantasy football news)

Marshawn Lynch, RB BUF
News: A day after Marshawn Lynch finished with 8 yards on four carries against the Jets, two reports surfaced about the future of the Buffalo running back. The Burlington County Times reported that the Eagles called the Bills about Lynch's availability, but ESPN debunked the report by saying the Bills seriously thought about trading Lynch last week but opted to keep him. The Packers were previously linked to having interest in Lynch after they lost starting rusher Ryan Grant for the season. Lynch has 164 yards on 37 carries this season with a 7-yard catch and no touchdowns. He's Buffalo's leading rusher.

Analysis: While the Bills are reportedly saying that they won't trade their running back, our hunch is that Buffalo is lining up suitors between now and the trade deadline and will consider shipping the disgruntled running back for a good draft pick. With an 0-4 record and not much hope for a playoff berth, common sense suggests letting him go and giving Fred Jackson and C.J. Spiller the majority of the rushing workload. Lynch is worth owning if only because he could potentially get traded, though once the trade deadline passes on Oct. 19, his value will drop sharply if he's still in Western New York. Now, it's also worth noting that Lynch will take on a Jaguars run defense that gave up two scores to Joseph Addai last week and has given up six scores on the ground through four games. If you're in a pinch this week and need a running back, Lynch could be helpful