I can only imagine the memes that will also follow in the next few days.
It was terrible of the cancel culture to create dozens of racist, homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic emails using Jon Gruden’s account all those years.
— John Pavlovitz (@johnpavlovitz) October 12, 2021
Well if there’s one thing I’ll give credit Gruden for, he didn’t focus on just one group of people to offend. He found a way to offend just about every group of people equally.
Maybe he and Thom Brennaman can go hang out at each others houses?
Quintez Cephus broke his collarbone in the 19-17 loss on Sunday against the Minnesota Vikings, according to NFL Network. He is expected to undergo surgery and will be out about three months, which means his season is likely over.
Bad news for Detroit……..
Whenever I hear “not that I’m (fill in the blank)” you know damn well what’s coming next.
Then there’s the obligatory “but I’m not that guy, but that’s not what I meant,” blah blah blah
You are defined by what you say and do John. There’s no avoiding it. That’s not cancel culture BTW. You’ve made a ton of money running your mouth and being “that guy” and it’s not like you are murdering anyone but JFC much like Urban Meyer just own it and live with the consequences. The “I don’t have a racist bone in my body” statement is what most bigoted, ignorant people say after they’ve been caught. Or you find religion. That works well.
Then again, maybe the ghost of Al Davis just hates Chuckie so he set up a burner account under his credentials! There you go.
@Blair Kiel posted:Dave Chappelle as interim Coach?
Hell Yes, He can do Charlie Murphy True Hollywood stories and the Niggah family with Clayton Bigsby doing X's and O's. It's perfect!
@Blair Kiel posted:or is that some sort of 3rd rail sacred cow?
I think that's called sainted well done steak.
@Tschmack posted:Whenever I hear “not that I’m (fill in the blank)” you know damn well what’s coming next.
Then there’s the obligatory “but I’m not that guy, but that’s not what I meant,” blah blah blah
You are defined by what you say and do John. There’s no avoiding it. That’s not cancel culture BTW. You’ve made a ton of money running your mouth and being “that guy” and it’s not like you are murdering anyone but JFC much like Urban Meyer just own it and live with the consequences. The “I don’t have a racist bone in my body” statement is what most bigoted, ignorant people say after they’ve been caught. Or you find religion. That works well.
Then again, maybe the ghost of Al Davis just hates Chuckie so he set up a burner account under his credentials! There you go.
People make mistakes or say stupid shit but all of Gruden's emails were just vile not only in language but in intent as well. That's what makes it truly repulsive.
We're all products of our environment, it's just a matter how we take in the world as we move through this life.
"What's more concerning then the years of racist, homophobic, transphobic, and misogynistic emails sent from Gruden is that he felt that comfortable putting these thoughts and comments in writing to people who were more then willing to receive them".
This.
Jon Gruden is an asshole. Always has been.
I for one am shocked at the sainthood of so many X4 posters though. I had no idea.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:Gruden's a POS, but when will we see emails from Dan Snyder, Jerry Jones, Haslam, etc? Some interesting comments on Twitter.
Seriously should be a provision for owners to vote on and revoke a franchise with shitbags like Snyder. Problem is a lot of the owners are shitbags too, just haven't gotten caught.
@Pakrz posted:Jon Gruden is an asshole. Always has been.
I for am shocked at the sainthood of so many X4 posters though. I had no idea.
Bow and worship before me.
To your point though, nobody is a saint but it's a matter of owning it. I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of cancel culture because there is some Orwellian elements when it comes to people who truly did just make a mistake or were in a different spot in their lives.
I'm a product of my environment. I've got racist, sexist, homophobic elements in me that are ingrained but it's a matter of tapping into it or tapping it down. Hell, anyone reading this board over the past 20 years could absolutely crucify me. There were times I used the N (yes, capital N) word out of confrontational value in *ahem* "debates" but then it just hits you how vile what word is. So you grow and acknowledge the good and bad in yourself. I'm sure there are tons of other things I've said as well. Some of it is just programmed in, you don't even realize the impact of the word or statement because it's just been that way for ever. Understand it, don't tap into it.
I'm a vulgar asshole. I'll never apologize for that.
That comment wasn’t directed at you or anybody in particular. Just a general statement about historical stupid shit most everybody has said or done at some point in their lives.
I know. I'm just leading by example because I'm so fucking awesome.
Repent sinners.
@Henry posted:Bow and worship before me.
To your point though, nobody is a saint but it's a matter of owning it. I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole of cancel culture because there is some Orwellian elements when it comes to people who truly did just make a mistake or were in a different spot in their lives.
I'm a product of my environment. I've got racist, sexist, homophobic elements in me that are ingrained but it's a matter of tapping into it or tapping it down. Hell, anyone reading this board over the past 20 years could absolutely crucify me. There were times I used the N (yes, capital N) word out of confrontational value in *ahem* "debates" but then it just hits you how vile what word is. So you grow and acknowledge the good and bad in yourself. I'm sure there are tons of other things I've said as well. Some of it is just programmed in, you don't even realize the impact of the word or statement because it's just been that way for ever. Understand it, don't tap into it.
I'm a vulgar asshole. I'll never apologize for that.
Speaking of.....
I'm at the Reno airport Sunday night with my 6 year old daughter. We are coming home after visiting a buddy of mine who moved up there. Sitting at the gate and there is 2 black dudes sitting across from us. The one is dropping the N bomb every other fucking word. That N## said this and this N## over here did that.
Now my 6 year old is wondering what a N is. Thanks you piece of shit.
She doesn't even comprehend grouping people by skin color. That's as absurd as grouping people by eye color to her.
Point being, we are never going to make progress racially until all people stop fixating on race. Our culture of accepting racist language from one group but not another is fucking retarded.
@Pakrz posted:That comment wasn’t directed at you or anybody in particular. Just a general statement about historical stupid shit most everybody has said or done at some point in their lives.
100%
Thank the lord that social media wasn't around when I was a teenager. I would have been sending pics of dick to every female with a pulse and saying the most vulgar shit imaginable.
@BrainDed posted:100%
Thank the lord that social media wasn't around when I was a teenager. I would have been sending pics of dick to every female with a pulse and saying the most vulgar shit imaginable.
Can you imagine what Favre, Winters, and Chmura would have been texting each other or get caught on cell phone cameras doing in the 90s? Heck, Favre couldn't control himself when he was 40.
Paul Hornung and Fuzzy Thurston? Hornung would have broken the internet by himself.
Gruden is probably an amateur offender relative to some other famous coaches of the past. Lombardi and Starr would have been fine, but many other famous coaches/players would have been in deep, deep trouble.
@BrainDed posted:Speaking of.....
I'm at the Reno airport Sunday night with my 6 year old daughter. We are coming home after visiting a buddy of mine who moved up there. Sitting at the gate and there is 2 black dudes sitting across from us. The one is dropping the N bomb every other fucking word. That N## said this and this N## over here did that.
Now my 6 year old is wondering what a N is. Thanks you piece of shit.
She doesn't even comprehend grouping people by skin color. That's as absurd as grouping people by eye color to her.
Point being, we are never going to make progress racially until all people stop fixating on race. Our culture of accepting racist language from one group but not another is fucking retarded.
I definitely agree that's part of the problem. There needs to be a starting point of just making everyone's history and existence a de facto part of American life. BUT there is work to be done in just acknowledging the problems and not fighting other peoples history by not calling it "true history" or making it into some kind of insidious indoctrinated march to the dreaded "socialism".
The reality is things will really start to change when we all croak and your daughter and her generation take the reins. Even then it'll take a few more generations. It's a matter of acknowledging all the shit as well as the good in this country. Every nation has a dark history, own it.
If you teach division, you'll have division. That's why identity politics are just fucking hideous leaving the door open for some twisted Orwellian shit. (Place thesis on elites bastardizing/warping movements for power here) There are always over reactions even in soft revolutions/social movements. Everyone has to own their shit and acknowledge how massively diverse, and just plain massive, this country is and actually live by the ideas we supposedly profess.
I think context matters. As does timing and intent.
Think back to the whole Josh Hader situation a few years ago. He got worked over for tweets and messages sent 7 years previously when he was 17. He owned up to it later and didn’t make excuses. I can’t speak for others, but I recall saying and doing a lot of stupid shit when I was 17. He’ll, I did a lot of stupid shit into my early 20s. Point being, it happens.
John Gruden is a grown ass adult. He should have known better. But his reaction leads me to believe he either doesn’t get it or he doesn’t care. In the end, that’s his choice. But freedom of speech doesn’t protect you from your employer taking action as well.
The underlying question in all of this is who was the one calling the shots on which emails were released.
It seems like someone wanted Gruden gone for some reason. Plenty of candidates, but Mark Davis rises to the top of the list. They leaked the one email about D. Smith and hoped Gruden would get the hint and resign, but Gruden tried to laugh it off, brought in some big guns to defend him (Dungy and Tirico), and tried to move on. Then, they upped the ante and leaked even more emails and Gruden knew they were just going to keep escalating unless he left. He probably "resigned" after a settlement in which he got to keep some, but not all the remaining, money and signed the equivalent of an NDA to make sure he didn't leak some of the emails he undoubtedly got back from some of these executives, owners, etc. that make them look just as bad.
It's just the question of who was driving this and why? Mark Davis and the Raiders aren't exactly the favored ones among NFL owners and Goodell. It leads you to believe there was something bigger going on regarding Gruden or he got pulled into something beyond himself and he was the sacrificial lamb.
"John Gruden is a grown ass adult. He should have known better. "
Agree, especially putting it in writing. Fucking dumb. That said, 10 years ago I'd guess that 90% or more of football people were using words like "faggot" and "queer" frequently. Many still are privately.
The racial comment isn't a homerun if his rubber lips for lying excuse is valid. Only the people around him who know him can say if that's BS or not.
Calling Joe Biden a pussy in what was meant to be a private conversation isn't grounds for termination IMO. Again, what language was being used to describe Trump in locker rooms just a couple years ago?
This is cancel culture and nothing more. He wasn't acting unlike a huge portion of his peers and subordinates. The difference is he was dumb enough to put it in writing.
Maybe Mark Davis isn’t going to win popularity contests with NFL HQ or other owners but in this instance it’s all about protecting the shield, baby. Of course Goodell pulled the trigger, Davis just needed time to work out Gruden’s severance package.
What continues to mystify me is how bullet-proof Dan Snyder is. Didn’t the league basically force Richardson out of his Carolina Panther ownership a couple of years ago for much less than what Snyder and Co. have been getting away with for years? Why are the other owners protecting this clown? He certainly isn’t making them more money, I’d argue to the contrary
WFT has now the lowest home attendance in the league, probably the worst stadium and Snyder can’t get any of the local jurisdictions to even sniff at helping him get a new stadium because he and his brand are so toxic.
WTF Roger? Just another reason to add to the NFLFU list…
@ilcuqui posted:Maybe Mark Davis isn’t going to win popularity contests with NFL HQ or other owners but in this instance it’s all about protecting the shield, baby. Of course Goodell pulled the trigger, Davis just needed time to work out Gruden’s severance package.
What continues to mystify me is how bullet-proof Dan Snyder is. Didn’t the league basically force Richardson out of his Carolina Panther ownership a couple of years ago for much less than what Snyder and Co. have been getting away with for years? Why are the other owners protecting this clown? He certainly isn’t making them more money, I’d argue to the contrary
WFT has now the lowest home attendance in the league, probably the worst stadium and Snyder can’t get any of the local jurisdictions to even sniff at helping him get a new stadium because he and his brand are so toxic.
WTF Roger? Just another reason to add to the NFLFU list…
And having a good team (or at least a non-toxic team) in DC is as important for the NFL as any city.
Every key senator and congressperson getting invited to sit in luxury boxes by lobbyists or Goodell to watch a WFT game would be very valuable to the shield. Snyder makes that less likely just because of the potential optics of what everyone knows Snyder has probably said or done that isn't public yet.
A business is going to protect its interests. You can call it cancel culture all you want but does any organization go to the lengths that the NFL does to protect its image and reputation?
Gruden draws negative attention to not only the Raiders, but also the NFL. People have been fired for doing or saying a lot less IMO. There is no way this was going to slide.
I do agree on Synder. How he managed to skate by with nothing more than a slap on the wrist is mind boggling to me.
You could call it Cancel Culture if it was one email, not if it was a decade long pattern.
@BrainDed posted:"John Gruden is a grown ass adult. He should have known better. "
Agree, especially putting it in writing. Fucking dumb. That said, 10 years ago I'd guess that 90% or more of football people were using words like "faggot" and "queer" frequently. Many still are privately.
The racial comment isn't a homerun if his rubber lips for lying excuse is valid. Only the people around him who know him can say if that's BS or not.
Calling Joe Biden a pussy in what was meant to be a private conversation isn't grounds for termination IMO. Again, what language was being used to describe Trump in locker rooms just a couple years ago?
This is cancel culture and nothing more. He wasn't acting unlike a huge portion of his peers and subordinates. The difference is he was dumb enough to put it in writing.
Cancel culture = holding people accountable for being a dumbass.
From my experience people only think “cancel culture “ is bad when they agree with the person getting canceled or at the minimum, think the comments are harmless, which is really just another way of agreeing with the comments.
@ilcuqui posted:WFT has now the lowest home attendance in the league, probably the worst stadium and Snyder can’t get any of the local jurisdictions to even sniff at helping him get a new stadium because he and his brand are so toxic.
Just a decade ago their waiting list almost rivaled that of the Green Bay Packers. Snyder has fucked up that franchise.
Lot of people calling Hillary right now for advice on email purge
There is always room in politics for Jon.
But there has to be room for reconciliation instead of strictly punitive. That's the problem. Him just saying he's sorry sure the fuck doesn't cut it and yes, getting shit canned is probably the right move but it shouldn't hamper him from future employment if he is truly contrite. It is definitely, and correctly, a shot across the bow of the entire culture to knock that shit off. That's the bigger point that gets lost in this.
That's the problem, it's just too damn similar to McCarthyism.
Also, you mentioned Chappelle. Watch "The Closer". Chappelle is very smart guy and the points he makes as far as art and context are legit. Just like the blacklists of the 50's, you aren't fixing a problem by destroying one person regardless if they were wrong. I am fully for intolerance of the intolerant but that is usually those that refuse to acknowledge facts and spread bile instead of just being stupid.
There's just too many variables to human existence.
@Iowacheese posted:Lot of people calling Hillary right now for advice on email purge
They should hit up the rest of her toady orbit to find out how to twist reality into weaponized identity politics as well.
Fucking Clintons made major steps in destroying this republic. Reaganism on steroids with elitist faux moralism.
Anyways, I fucking hate the Clintons and everything they stand for in case that wasn't clear.
Feel free to delete this but fuck the Clintons.
@Iowacheese posted:Lot of people calling Hillary right now for advice on email purge
She sucks at it.
@Henry posted:But there has to be room for reconciliation instead of strictly punitive. That's the problem. Him just saying he's sorry sure the fuck doesn't cut it and yes, getting shit canned is probably the right move but it shouldn't hamper him from future employment if he is truly contrite. It is definitely, and correctly, a shot across the bow of the entire culture to knock that shit off. That's the bigger point that gets lost in this.
That's the problem, it's just too damn similar to McCarthyism.
Also, you mentioned Chappelle. Watch "The Closer". Chappelle is very smart guy and the points he makes as far as art and context are legit. Just like the blacklists of the 50's, you aren't fixing a problem by destroying one person regardless if they were wrong. I am fully for intolerance of the intolerant but that is usually those that refuse to acknowledge facts and spread bile instead of just being stupid.
There's just too many variables to human existence.
Based on my respect of your opinions I will watch The Closer. I've been boycotting it, but I will watch it now and form my own opinion.
I'm not saying you're going to like or agree with all of it but he makes some solid points when it comes to context and he also really has some solid stories among the jokes.
@Goalline posted:Cancel culture = holding people accountable for being a dumbass.
From my experience people only think “cancel culture “ is bad when they agree with the person getting canceled or at the minimum, think the comments are harmless, which is really just another way of agreeing with the comments.
Cancel culture is currently only addressing certain cultures and it takes it way too far. Example, this scientist had the gall to question diversity policies, which by the way are being questioned by the Supreme Court, and thus gets canceled. That's not healthy or "holding him accountable for being a dumbass." That is attempting to drown out civil discourse.
https://www.bostonherald.com/2...-cites-distractions/
As far as Gruden is concerned, if you never called a person a faggot or queer, I congratulate you on your saint hood. Me, on the other hand, I played smear the queer all through elementary and middle school. I've used those terms but am making an effort not to. Not because cancel culture has taught me, but because logic and reason resonated with me as I became mature enough to understand the topic. I have used those terms because, as Henry said, I'm a product of my environment. Jon Gruden has been in football for a lot of years. I imagine he too is a product of his environment.
@fightphoe93 posted:
He found a way to offend just about every subgroup of people equally, except maybe Eskimoes.
You do realize “Eskimoes” is an offensive term?
YOU ARE CANCELED.
@BrainDed posted:Cancel culture is currently only addressing certain cultures and it takes it way too far. Example, this scientist had the gall to question diversity policies, which by the way are being questioned by the Supreme Court, and thus gets canceled. That's not healthy or "holding him accountable for being a dumbass." That is attempting to drown out civil discourse.
https://www.bostonherald.com/2...-cites-distractions/
As far as Gruden is concerned, if you never called a person a faggot or queer, I congratulate you on your saint hood. Me, on the other hand, I played smear the queer all through elementary and middle school. I've used those terms but am making an effort not to. Not because cancel culture has taught me, but because logic and reason resonated with me as I became mature enough to understand the topic. I have used those terms because, as Henry said, I'm a product of my environment. Jon Gruden has been in football for a lot of years. I imagine he too is a product of his environment.
I have never called anyone queer or faggot. Never! Why would I?
The article says NOTHING about what your professor friend actually said. More bullshit clickbait from the press.
BTW, Saint Goalline had a certain ring to it.
One of my biggest issues is the condemnation of writers, artists and philosophers from even 2 millennia ago. That to me is just inherently intellectual dishonesty.
Example: You don't fuck with Tolkien
Regardless you'll hear everything from sexist to racist connotations even though he was a man of peace and a product of the horrors of WW1. He once used "mongloid" in a letter. A widely accepted term of the time. There's a puke professor making his name off of trashing Tolkien. It would be the same as saying he's a POS racist because he's from Alabama.
Glen Loury, an accomplished black professor at Brown , lamented about how could you understand the whole of life, art and intellectual vigor if you're condemning and trying to remove the teaching of Aristotle and others across the ages because they were products of their time?
That is the pure Orwellian shit that is so often a twisted form of social science, particularly anthropology and identity studies.
It absolutely boggles the mind.
@Blair Kiel posted:You do realize “Eskimoes” is an offensive term?
YOU ARE CANCELED.
I actually did not know that and I’m not joking when I say I’m glad you pointed that out. I will edit my post and remove that reference.
@Henry posted:A question. Is anyone seriously surprised by this? Not just Gruden. It could be almost any coach/player/GM/owner/ball boy in all of professional sports and would this really come as a surprise?
Oh yeah. There are TON's of phones and laptops being wiped today. And more than a few people that regularly communicated with Washington during that timeframe are probably sweating bullets right now. Tick, tick, tick...
