@YATittle posted:Disagree on nothing at ILB. Barnes and watch for Kamal once he's back. I think those two will be serviceable. Summers, maybe. Burks forget it. Kirksey, no.
I am on board with this, really can't understand the lack of importance for ilb. they are critical to a defense imo. not sure if its from the upper level (gutey) or if its abm who's philosophy doesn't put importance on ilb...i see queen killing it and just wish...what could be
@DH13 posted:I didn't see any of the KC/LV game nor read any analysis. How did LV's D slow KC enough to outscore them? Was KC just sloppy and having an off day?
They only rushed 3 or 4 and everyone else dropped into coverage. Not sure why KC didn't attack them more with the running game.
San Diego did the same thing to Brees last night but he's not the threat to run that Mahomes is, obviously.
Sometimes, the eyes may see one thing and stats say something entirely different.
An example would be "Packers rush defense sucks".
The stats say that's really not so. In total yards, we are ranked #4(!) vs the rush.
We do drop down to #9 in yds/game average.
Yeah, stats are screwy during the season because of games played differentials, but it's not like we would drop to #30 with one more game in hand (knock wood).
A lot of that is because our offense has made the opponent feel like they are in a shootout.
A lot of it is because NFL offenses in general are dominating the defenses. College is even worse .... did you see the college scores this week?
Certainly fair to question both Pettine and what he's been given to work with. Safety play and Preston Smith have been disappointments and many of Gutey's decisions don't appear to be improving with age.
I don't like the 'fake' of dropping guys like 91 into coverage...I mean wtf is that? he ain't covering anyone...is he that bad of a rusher?...I also saw 90 dropping into coverage? again, just a waste of air at that point, and we are down a man where it counts,...
My choice would be whoever MLF wants. After being forced to retain ABM, let him pick the guy he wants.
Packers only generated 2 QB hurries vs Tom Brady
— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) October 19, 2020
Only other time the Packers generated less QB hurries under Mike Pettine - NFC Championship Game vs SF. Only 1 QB hurry that game
Brady appeared extremely comfortable last night.
Good thing Gary has a ton of potential.
None of the pass-rushers did much last night, don't pin this one of Gary not performing well.
Gary actually had a good rush on Brady and generated some pressure. Unfortunately he also committed a facemask penalty on the play...
It really is crazy just how poor this team can be in terms of consistent pass rush pressure in certain games. Even last year, I think of that Carolina game at Lambeau where the Pack made freaking Kyle Allen look good.
The first 4 games of this year, the Pack was sporadic in terms of bringing pressure to QBs, but at least it was occasionally enough to slow teams down. Yesterday, they never even slowed Tampa down. Brady never had anyone even close to being in his face other than the Gary facemask penalty pressure.
Let's just hope a guy like Kenny Clark can play better from this point forward. He looked pretty non-descript yesterday coming off the groin injury. There's been 4 guys who have brought occasional pressure this year, Z. Smith, Clark, Keke, and Gary. None of them really did much of anything yesterday, that can't happen again in a big game that all 4 of those guys are completely and totally shut down.
@pkr_north posted:I don't like the 'fake' of dropping guys like 91 into coverage...I mean wtf is that? he ain't covering anyone...is he that bad of a rusher?...I also saw 90 dropping into coverage? again, just a waste of air at that point, and we are down a man where it counts,...
Those types of things occasionally work. For example, the BJ Raji pick 6 in the 2010 NFC Title game against the Bears. However, to work the pass rush has to make the ball come out quick. If a veteran (non-Jay Cutler) has time to see one of those big guys drop into coverage, it's going to be ugly.
The Packers have had one defensive play like that all year that worked. It wasn't a zone drop by a DL, but it was the Jaire Alexander CB blitz that fooled Cousins for a safety. Jaire disguised it well and got there quick. If he doesn't do that, there are two receivers on that side of the field open for big plays.
@bvan posted:My choice would be whoever MLF wants. After being forced to retain ABM, let him pick the guy he wants.
I don’t think he was forced, I got the impression that MLF was on board with retaining Pettine which was a selling point for Murphy. Could have just been telling GB what he thought they wanted to hear and didn’t mean it, but that doesn’t really track with what we’ve seen from MLF. He’s not an ass kisser, but he doesn’t create problems for himself by running his mouth.
Really doesn’t matter who the DC is if all you’re going to do to try to improve in the off season is replacing Blake Martinez with an injury prone version of Blake Martinez.
@michiganjoe posted:Certainly fair to question both Pettine and what he's been given to work with. Safety play and Preston Smith have been disappointments and many of Gutey's decisions don't appear to be improving with age.
Yup, have been an early critic of Pettine(Rex Ryan's lackey) but no doubt it is not all his fault.
Still early, but 3 drafts from Brian Gutekunst have provided 2(??) impact players to date :
| Round | Pick # | Overall | Name | Position | College |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 18 | 18 | Jaire Alexander | Cornerback | Louisville |
| 2 | 13 | 45 | Josh Jackson | Cornerback | Iowa |
| 3 | 24 | 88 | Oren Burks | Linebacker | Vanderbilt |
| 4 | 33 | 133 | J'Mon Moore | Wide Receiver | Missouri |
| 5 | 1 | 138 | Cole Madison | Guard | Washington State |
| 5 | 35 | 172 | JK Scott | Punter | Alabama |
| 5 | 37 | 174 | Marquez Valdes-Scantling | Wide Receiver | South Florida |
| 6 | 33 | 207 | Equanimeous St. Brown | Wide Receiver | Notre Dame |
| 7 | 14 | 232 | James Looney | Defensive End | California |
| 7 | 21 | 239 | Hunter Bradley | Long Snapper | Mississippi State |
| 7 | 30 | 248 | Kendall Donnerson | Linebacker | Southeast Missouri State |
| Round | Pick # | Overall | Name | Position | College |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 12 | 12 | Rashan Gary | Defensive Tackle | Michigan |
| 1 | 21 | 21 | Darnell Savage Jr. | Safety | Maryland |
| 2 | 12 | 44 | Elgton Jenkins | Center | Mississippi State |
| 3 | 12 | 75 | Jace Sternberger | Tight End | Texas A&M |
| 5 | 12 | 150 | Kingsley Keke | Defensive End | Texas A&M |
| 6 | 12 | 185 | Ka'dar Hollman | Cornerback | Toledo |
| 6 | 22 | 194 | Dexter Williams | Running Back | Notre Dame |
| 7 | 12 | 226 | Ty Summers | Linebacker | TCU |
| Round | Pick # | Overall | Name | Position | College |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 26 | 26 | Jordan Love | Quarterback | Utah State |
| 2 | 30 | 62 | A. J. Dillon | Running back | Boston College |
| 3 | 30 | 94 | Josiah Deguara | Tight end | Cincinnati |
| 5 | 30 | 175 | Kamal Martin | Linebacker | Minnesota |
| 6 | 13 | 192 | Jon Runyan | Guard | Michigan |
| 6 | 29 | 208 | Jake Hanson | Center | Oregon |
| 6 | 30 | 209 | Simon Stepaniak | Guard | Indiana |
| 7 | 22 | 236 | Vernon Scott | Safety | TCU |
| 7 | 28 | 242 | Jonathan Garvin | Defensive end | Miami (FL) |
Need you to define "impact player" Assuming you mean Jaire & Jenkins but we also have some starters in Savage & MVS. Not to mention Gary who has been playing better this season.
I really don't think it's as bad as some are making it out to be. I guess a single blowout loss will do that though.
The kid punting looks OK
In my opinion we should not fire Pettine. He can keep his job if he agrees to be castrated. 
3rd-and-2 and the Packers line up like it's 3rd-and-22. pic.twitter.com/UM5fXyOU2o
— Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) October 19, 2020
Gotta limit the big play.
Pettine must think Mike McCarthy was over on the Yucs sideline calling plays
@Boris posted:Need you to define "impact player" Assuming you mean Jaire & Jenkins but we also have some starters in Savage & MVS. Not to mention Gary who has been playing better this season.
I really don't think it's as bad as some are making it out to be. I guess a single blowout loss will do that though.
MVS is not a starter. He just happens to be starting.
@pkr_north posted:I don't like the 'fake' of dropping guys like 91 into coverage...I mean wtf is that? he ain't covering anyone...is he that bad of a rusher?...I also saw 90 dropping into coverage? again, just a waste of air at that point, and we are down a man where it counts,...
They had Kenny Clark drop into coverage at least twice that I noticed. Not a fan of that at all.
I'm not President of the Pettine fan club by any means, but I'm not as ready to give up on him like some are. I guess seeing a revolving door at D-Coordinator for a long time and seeing in general how tough it is to coach defense in the NFL nowadays has me more willing to let Pettine try to work things out.
I think of the days of when the D-Coordinator moved from Fritz Shurmur (who was very good but ready to retire) to Emmitt Thomas to Ed Donatell to Bob Slowick to Jim Bates to Bob Sander and finally we win a Super Bowl with none other than.... the Dominator Dom Capers. That right there should tell you how hard it is to find a D-Coordinator, and even if you have a good one like Dom was at that time, the message gets old eventually and you have to move on.
Some of the best defenses I have seen in the past 20 years were led by guys that have "lost their shine" as time has gone on. From Marvin Lewis to Dan Quinn to Dom Capers to Romeo Crennel to Matt Patricia.... on and on, it just seems like even the guys that have been the most successful D-Coordinators only were able to do it at a high level for a short time and with sort of a magical mix of personnel. Bill Belichick of course is the exception, but I don't think he's willing to come to the Pack to replace Pettine.
Edit: Forgot about Dick LeBeau, but at aged 83.... I think he probably just wants to chill out at this point in life instead of trying to turn Ty Summers into a Pro Bowl caliber ILB.
Anyone for Zimmer? No? Yeah, didn't think so.
He's the defensive equivalent of Mike McCarthy.
@Henry posted:MVS is not a starter. He just happens to be starting.
Unfortunately, you’re right. The more I see of him, the less impressed I am. He’s a decent #4 receiver, but as a 2 or 3 his inconsistency really stands out. He’s got raw speed that Alan Lazard can only dream of, but Lazard is much better in every other facet of the game. We miss Lazard as the #2 wideout.
Good coordinators and good personnel go hand in hand. Tough to have one without the other and still be very good.
@Boris posted:Need you to define "impact player" Assuming you mean Jaire & Jenkins but we also have some starters in Savage & MVS. Not to mention Gary who has been playing better this season.
I would think Jaire and Elgton are the only guys you could call "difference makers" so far. Again, early in his regime, but that's the list after 28 Gutekunst draft picks to date.
Pettine is definitely suspect, but he's had to deal with suspect talent at the DL and ILB positions.
@PackerHawk posted:Anyone for Zimmer? No? Yeah, didn't think so.
He's the defensive equivalent of Mike McCarthy.
Zimmball is generally pretty good wherever it goes, he’s just an asshole. His scheme seemed to frustrate Rodgers when he had all his horses. At a minimum he knows how to find an ILB!
Gotta go find a young, hungry up and comer to take over. He exists somewhere, they get found every year. I would look to college honestly, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray are the future, gotta be able to defend all different things they do. College coaches have been defending it for 20 years.
@Grave Digger posted:Zimmball is generally pretty good wherever it goes, he’s just an asshole. His scheme seemed to frustrate Rodgers when he had all his horses. At a minimum he knows how to find an ILB!
Gotta go find a young, hungry up and comer to take over. He exists somewhere, they get found every year. I would look to college honestly, Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray are the future, gotta be able to defend all different things they do. College coaches have been defending it for 20 years.
Jim Leonard, the Badgers DC, could be one of those guys.
Six New England SBs. Defensive points given up rankings...6th, 1st, 2nd, 8th, 1st, and 7th.
@mrtundra posted:Jim Leonard, the Badgers DC, could be one of those guys.
I seriously would love Leonhard and not because it's Badger homer crap. He's always had to play smart. He's got some good defensive chops. He just seems like the kind of guy who knows what it takes to play the defense and could really bring some innovative stuff.
So I don’t know where the radio guys get their stats from but there is 1 that is a concern for the D going forward. Supposedly after 5 games last year, the number of QB pressures by the D was around 140 pressures. This year the number is closer to 70 QB pressures.
If that’s correct, wow that is a huge decline in performance. Let’s hope that gets turned around soon. They need to get some pressures on Watson this week as he does have a number of receivers that can take it the distance.
Once Leonard figures out Ohio St then I think he would be a good option. 🙂
It’s becoming obvious that Todd Bowles wasn’t the problem with the NYJ even though he got scapegoated. LaFleur should have struck a deal with him to come to GB as a package deal. Love to have him running our defense, easily the most underrated coordinator/coach of the last decade.
@Grave Digger posted:Once Leonard figures out Ohio St then I think he would be a good option. 🙂
Fair point.
To be fair, who has figured out OSU?
@EC Pack posted:To be fair, who has figured out OSU?
Consistent NFL level talent at almost every skill position will cause some problems for anyone.
