Latest Update on 2020-21 Season

The players union now is opposing the early start.  This could result in the owners or players tearing up the CBA. Should be interesting.

The Bucks do not appear to have trade assets in the form of draft picks, but they could offer Bledsoe and Ilyasova as an expiring plus a future 1st. Is that enough? They will want to be able to lock up opponents PGs and give more shots to their stars Ingram and Williamson. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/spor...ba-draft/ar-BB1aH5Ym

Rumors flying all around now about possible trade targets. Schroeder in a sign and trade. Oladipo also being buzzed. Jrue Holiday is being shopped, and the Bucks appear interested. Could Brook Lopez be on the trading block?

Considering the Bucks lack of assets to deal, I just don’t know. Lopez and Bledsoe appear to at least be somewhat tradable- they both All-Defensive guys from a year ago on at least manageable deals. But the Thunder, Pelicans, Pacers... they’re all looking for draft assets. The Bucks don’t have any.

Holiday would be a good get but would be a 1 year rental.

Would be worried about Oladipo and recovery from injury

I think the problem with trading Lopez is that even though he's an All-Defensive player, his defense is specific to the drop system that Bud uses. He's a tremendous rim protector, but that works well in the regular season when your defense forces 32% 3 point shooters that are part of 9-10 man rotations to make shots. Those same shots in the post-season go to 36% 3 point shooters as the teams get better in general and shorten their rotations. That lessens Lopez' value to most other teams. He's a good offensive player, but he's still a liability on defense against the teams the Bucks will need to beat next year (Celtics, Heat, and Nets). If you are trying to match up with Embiid, he's a great piece, but he's very specific to that playoff matchup.

Bledsoe's best fit is for a Western conference team that's going to need a guy in the playoffs to chase around Steph Curry, Donavan Mitchell, and James Harden.

The trades are all about matchups in the playoffs. If you trade Lopez and get beat by the Sixers in the playoffs when Embiid goes off, you'll regret it. If you trade Bledsoe and Kemba Walker lights you up, you'll regret it.

No matter what else they do, the Bucks best chance is for Giannis to become better in halfcourt offense. When you can't give them the ball to your best player in the 4th quarter of a tight playoff game, it means your best player isn't good enough on offense.

Music and I debated this in the chats during the playoffs, but I thought A. Davis showed he was a superior player to Giannis in the playoffs. Giannis plays a lot harder during the regular season, but Davis is just as good a defender when he's locked in, and is almost unguardable in the half-court 1 x 1. You have to double him in the post and he's an outstanding 3 point shooter for a guy his size. Can you imagine Giannis ever hitting that game-winning 3 Davis hit on a catch and shoot at the buzzer? Me neither.

I read this somewhere- that Lopez is similar to what Andrew Bogut was to the Warriors in their first Title. He was unplayable against the Cavs, but he was really good and important before that. Lopez has plenty of value in a 72 or 82 game season and certain playoff matchups.

But again- rebuilding teams are looking for young talent or draft assets. The Bucks really don’t have either.

@Music City posted:

I read this somewhere- that Lopez is similar to what Andrew Bogut was to the Warriors in their first Title. He was unplayable against the Cavs, but he was really good and important before that. Lopez has plenty of value in a 72 or 82 game season and certain playoff matchups.

But again- rebuilding teams are looking for young talent or draft assets. The Bucks really don’t have either.

The Pacers pick and DDV. That's about it.

Here’s an interesting article...

https://behindthebuckpass.com/...deni-avdija-meeting/

So a guy that some are saying is a lottery top 5-7 pick gets an interview with the Bucks. Why? The Bucks looking at the draft order and seeing potential trade targets if he falls? That way they’re ready to pounce and make a bold move?

The kid has Luka Doncic game. 18, would take some time, but if Tyler Herro can help the Heat, Avdija could help the Bucks.

I would be thrilled with this kind of move.

Looks like 12/22 is the day. NBAPA has approved the new start of the season.

https://bleacherreport.com/art...ason-starting-dec-22

@Music City posted:

Here’s an interesting article...

https://behindthebuckpass.com/...deni-avdija-meeting/

So a guy that some are saying is a lottery top 5-7 pick gets an interview with the Bucks. Why? The Bucks looking at the draft order and seeing potential trade targets if he falls? That way they’re ready to pounce and make a bold move?

The kid has Luka Doncic game. 18, would take some time, but if Tyler Herro can help the Heat, Avdija could help the Bucks.

I would be thrilled with this kind of move.

As it implies in the article, I hope it doesn't mean this is a Giannis trade contingency.

Well, truth be told if it is, it’s a smart move.

More discussion about a possible Chris Paul trade:

https://behindthebuckpass.com/...-chris-paul-trade-2/

Honestly... I really don’t know why anyone would trade serious assets for Chris Paul. He’s played well- surprisingly well, especially last year- but he’s just not a guy I trust to stay healthy. Plant based diets don’t reverse aging... and the guy’s 35. And he’s making +$40M. You’re doing OKC a pretty big favor by taking on that salary.

But there’s another reality- life (and business) as usual isn’t in our foreseeable future. The league lost billions last year. They don’t have GameDay revenues to look forward to until 2021-22 in all likelihood.

That means viewership. They’re going to have to work hard to get the messaging back on target after supporting BLM/social commentary, as they lost a lot of viewership over it. Silver already has spoken about how they’re going to reset the social commentary, put names back on the nerdiest, etc. They know they have some relationships to repair.

So knowing this- what teams are going to be enthusiastic about adding an albatross contract like Paul’s? Or Westbrook (who has said he wants out)? Or Harden (more rumors)? How are any of these teams going to pry real draft assets from suitors knowing they’re likely to lose more $$$ this coming season? The smart play for those teams is draft the cheap talent and avoid adding monster contracts until all the revenue streams have returned.

Teams are also positioning for the Giannis sweepstakes- which after Giannis’ comments that “it depends on what decisions they make” about his future in Milwaukee does elevate concern that he might not stay after all. And looking around at teams in the league that can help the Bucks add veteran talent, an equal number of teams are urging no one to help the Bucks so Giannis hits the open market.

Horst and company have done a fair job getting them this far. The hardest part is now, and the pressure is on. Standing on the edge of the blade, as they say...

Why would you trade for any of those three?

Westbrook fills up the stat sheet but he’s a chemistry killer much like Kyrie Irving.  James Harden may be one of the most dangerous scorers of this era but plays no defense and hogs the ball.  Chris Paul is a HOF guy at the 1 but he’s old and frail and paid an enormous salary.  

Figure something else out.  If you are the Bucks that is.

The reality seems to be that losing Giannis is increasingly possible. What could they land in a trade for him? I know that sounds blasphemous and possibly stupid, but why trade a bunch of assets for a one year rental of an old and/or oft-injured player, and still possibly lose Giannis after this season, and get nothing in return?

No to Harden.  Ball hog.  Paul and Westbrook however, um, maybe, if the price is right.

They are both ring hunting.  PAul is aging  and has one more shot, even in a somewhat diminished role.  Westbrook is a player and maybe, just maybe has matured.  34 needs someone to ease the pressure on him. Teams like the Bucks need to take a shot when they need to.  

They need to.

There’s so much shit flying around right now, some of it is misinformation, some isn’t. The draft is supposedly thin in talent, so draft assets supposedly less value. A team like GS is an instant contender and have the #2 pick to dangle for a top guy. Every team is interested in every available guy. It’s just crazy... it all starts this week. The Bucks better have a plan, and they better be right. Or they’ll lose more than just Giannis...

You don't trade for Paul unless Giannis signs the supermax, and I don't think he's going to. Somebody seems to have got to him since the Bucks exited the playoffs. The whole tone of his comments seems to be different.

I see what you see- but that doesn’t mean they aren’t doing something to get the league off the scent.

Put it this way- if the Bucks were playing chess here, the best thing they can do is to get teams to think they have a chance to sign Giannis next year. You peddle misinformation, you put out statements like Giannis’ so they think they can get him. Then they are more reluctant to spend cap space this year.

If they know he’s off the table, they’ll make vastly different moves. And some of the players involved are guys the Bucks want a shot at. You combine that with the loss of revenue, you shrink the market and give yourself a better chance to improve your team.

Theoretically...

Harden rumored to be going to the Nets. Not sure how that makes sense having 3 ball-dominant guys on the same team.

Giannis to the Heat or Warriors rumors gaining steam as well.

I'm not sure what the Bucks can do at this point to improve the team. We all know they need to trade Bledsoe, but what's the point in trading him and getting worse? I don't see how they can get value for him.

Harden to the Nets makes no sense. Only one ball. The Heat have it set up cap wise to add a max guy, sure. But I think that’s more likely Anthony Davis than Giannis.

Up until recently I wasn’t concerned about Giannis leaving the Bucks.

Although, some recent rumblings and comments (mostly coming from international media sources) seem to suggest he’s putting the word out there that he’s open to staying as long as they fill out the roster around him.   The tone of that messaging seems to be a lot more quid pro quo than 2-3 months ago.  

Horst and the owners (Lasry and Edens) have been remarkably silent lately and I don’t view that as a positive sign.   Either commenting about Giannis or the roster itself.

There’s no more scuttlebutt in the offseason than in the NBA and it’s even more sketchy this year because of how compressed the draft and free agent period is.  I mean, the season is basically going to start in 5 weeks or so.  So yes there’s a lot of cloak and dagger and misinformation but I’m not sure what’s going on there as it relates to 34 or the Bucks.  Could it be a smokescreen?  Possibly.

I’ve said this from the beginning that if you don’t think Giannis will be extending you have to try to deal him and get as much back as you can in return.   I keep hearing Miami rumors and it’s interesting that Miami has not extended Bam as of yet so if Herro and Bam were in play then if I’m Milwaukee I have to think about it.  

Even more interesting is the Sixers hiring Daryl Morey.  He’s known for his wheeling and dealing and right now his former team is looking to blow up the roster as well.  The Rockers owner is a cheapskate and if I’m Milwaukee I’m trying to figure out how to get Tucker or Covington if not both.   Harden can go to Brooklyn if he wants.  They won’t win with that roster, but it makes for great drama and theatre.

What about the Sixers trading for AD even for a year?   You team him up with Embiid and they have other assets you can trade.  Morey to Philly dramatically changes things in the East IMO.  If I’m Miami and Boston I was not pleased to see him land in Philly.  Same with the Bucks.  But that’s what makes the NBA so much fun.  All the speculation.  It’s like the NFL draft but it will go on for weeks instead of a few days.

The Bucks management is silent because they have to be. Giannis does not want a circus- and the Bucks probably don’t either. The only way to avoid that is a wall of silence.

Unless the rest of the league shuts the Bucks out to force their hand with Giannis (which would be collusion of course), the rumors have to all be taken with a grain of salt. The ride starts this week. The only circumstance that will make me nervous is if they do nothing...

@Music City posted:

Harden to the Nets makes no sense. Only one ball.

That and having two guys that aren't usually interested in playing defense at all (Kyrie and Harden) along with a guy coming off an Achilles tear that wasn't a star defender to begin with. They need a rim protector unless they really think DeAndre Jordan is still a viable starter for a contender.

@Music City posted:

The Bucks management is silent because they have to be. Giannis does not want a circus- and the Bucks probably don’t either. The only way to avoid that is a wall of silence.

Unless the rest of the league shuts the Bucks out to force their hand with Giannis (which would be collusion of course), the rumors have to all be taken with a grain of salt. The ride starts this week. The only circumstance that will make me nervous is if they do nothing...

I just don't see what their options are. Bledsoe's trade value is in the basement. The only guys that would get top of the line talent back are Giannis or Middleton. Lopez is a system guy in Milwaukee and more of a role player elsewhere (although he'd be a really good fit in Brooklyn). DDV, George Hill, and Matthews (if he even opts in) are all solid contributors on any team, but you can find guys like that for MLEs.

Trading Bledsoe has to happen, because they can't go into a playoff series with him again after 3 years of failure at the offensive end. But you are likely to get a return that makes you worse in terms of regular-season performance.

It's mind-boggling to think the Bucks were one overtime period (Game 3 in the 2019 ECFs) from being up 3-0 and on their way to a likely NBA title against a depleted Warriors team and 17 months later are staring at maybe being the 4th best team in the East. The Nets (if Durant is healthy) and Heat would both be favored over them right now (at least in the playoffs) and it's possible the Celtics would be as well. Boston has a bunch of young players that are still improving while the Bucks are likely going to be what they are right now (unless Giannis develops a jump shot). Who knows what the Sixers will look like under Doc Rivers, too.

If Giannis is really telling them he's going to leave unless they make some dramatic moves, the only choice they may be left with is to go all-in for Chris Paul. It's either move Bledsoe, George Hill, and draft assets for Paul or move Middleton for someone (Harden or Westbrook?) and take a shot with that.

James Harden also makes 38MM+ per year.  If you trade him to Brooklyn it probably means LaVert, Dinwiddie, Jordan and maybe Allen back in return.   Who’s going to come off the bench and play defense?    Right now, the Nets are in a good spot because they have a decent mix of youth and experience.  They can go 8-9 deep.    

Don’t need to worry about Paul he just got traded to Phoenix.  

@Tschmack posted:

Don’t need to worry about Paul he just got traded to Phoenix.  

In the end, OKC traded Victor Oladipo and Sabonis for Paul George and Westbrook for Chris Paul (and some picks). They then flipped George and Paul for the following:

Gilgeous-Alexander, Gallinari, Oubre, Rubio, Jerome, and Lecque and a bunch of first-round picks.

OKC has 17 first-round picks from now until 2027.

That's a big haul, but at one point they had Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Serge Ibaka as young and ascending on a team that made the Finals. They didn't want to pay Harden so traded him out for what ended up to be pennies on the dollar. After cheaping out on making a multi-year run with that team, they now are selling their fans on 17 guys they haven't drafted yet and some pieces that will probably make them too good to get them really low in the lottery but they obviously won't be real contenders for at least another 4-5 years (and that's if they hit on the picks).

I'm afraid that's what the Bucks will look like post-Giannis with about a quarter of that amount of future picks).

I did work in Oklahoma City in 2015-2016 and was there during their epic playoff collapse up 3-1 to the Warriors.   It was a fun place to be but obviously not when they melted down.  Still one of the biggest postseason chokes in any sport and Durant was a big reason for it.

Hard to think they had 2 HOF players and arguably a third with Westbrook and still couldn’t get over the hump.  I’m convinced had Durant stayed they still had a very good opportunity to win it all but in the end Durant wussed out and took the easy way to a title.  Way worse in retrospect than what LeBron did to Cleveland or what AD did to New Orleans.  

@Tschmack posted:

I did work in Oklahoma City in 2015-2016 and was there during their epic playoff collapse up 3-1 to the Warriors.   It was a fun place to be but obviously not when they melted down.  Still one of the biggest postseason chokes in any sport and Durant was a big reason for it.

Hard to think they had 2 HOF players and arguably a third with Westbrook and still couldn’t get over the hump.  I’m convinced had Durant stayed they still had a very good opportunity to win it all but in the end Durant wussed out and took the easy way to a title.  Way worse in retrospect than what LeBron did to Cleveland or what AD did to New Orleans.  

Durant didn't play well late in Game 6, but OKC still wins that game is Klay Thompson doesn't go off in the 4th quarter. He was unconscious.  You could argue that if Klay doesn't go off, Durant stays in OKC and the entire look of the NBA is different. LeBron had obviously started the super-team stuff going to the Heat, but Durant going to GS was one level above that. That accelerated the player-driven arms race to arrange for the creation of superteams and Durant leaving blew up the idea that the supermax would be enough to keep stars with their original teams. Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, Anthony Davis, and maybe Giannis don't get as caught up in the need to hook up with other stars to win titles. The attitude now is that you are better off playing with a bunch of other stars to win multiple titles than you are being Dirk Nowitzki and bearing down for the long haul to win a title with your original team.

@MichiganPacker2 posted:

I just don't see what their options are. Bledsoe's trade value is in the basement. The only guys that would get top of the line talent back are Giannis or Middleton. Lopez is a system guy in Milwaukee and more of a role player elsewhere (although he'd be a really good fit in Brooklyn). DDV, George Hill, and Matthews (if he even opts in) are all solid contributors on any team, but you can find guys like that for MLEs.

I don’t agree at all- he most certainly has value. Folks need to understand what Bledsoe is and isn’t. He’s a third tier PG that’s 2-time all NBA Defensive team. He isn’t a superstar. He is sub All Star, but when you look at his numbers he’s almost the same as Jrue Holiday. No trade value? He has plenty.

But he’s not a one for one for an All NBA player. And if they trade him away, they better get a PG in return. If no, they won’t have one, and that spells bad news.

Sad to see Schroeder to the Lakers. Would have thought he’d be a great addition the MKE.

I think Hill may be the one to go. After he provided the primary distraction in the playoffs, and lead the charge to quit playing (before they came to their senses), Management may feel like that can’t stick. They need guys hungry to win at all costs, like Giannis is.

Holiday is the top target to me. They can save the Pels $$$ while giving them a PG who specializes in defense and getting to the rim. They get something, we get something. And they can have our first rounder, too. Maybe take on Reddick too if they want to save more $$$.

Chris Mannix reporting that the Bucks never even talked to OKC about Chris Paul. Some rumors from Bucks beat reporters that Giannis didn't want to play with him.

Bucks get Jrue Holiday for Bledsoe, Hill, and some picks.

Some picks is an understatement. Three #1 picks? Wow.

I am thrilled they got this done. Not a small price, but Holiday answers several issues.

Hope they’re also able to put something together to get Bogdanovic.

@MichiganPacker2 posted:

Chris Mannix reporting that the Bucks never even talked to OKC about Chris Paul. Some rumors from Bucks beat reporters that Giannis didn't want to play with him.

If that’s true, I would love Giannis even more. It would prove that he feels about the same way I do about the Banana Boat crew...

If this keeps Giannis around, and more importantly, at least helps get the Bucks to the Finals, then it’s a great, ballsy move. If not, then a couple of those first round picks might be in the lottery. Not sure what they can even do to get any other help, but if they can get a 3 and D wing, that’d be great.

Really like Jrue Holiday. Lots to give up but will wait to hear how they protected the 3 1st’s.

If overpaying means keeping Giannis it is well worth it. Gotta think the odds on him signing the Supermax just went up exponentially.

Maybe Dumping salaries like DJ Wilson and Ersan for Bogdan would be appealing to Sac....hopefully they don't have to lose a guy like Donte to get it done.  

@Packdog posted:

Maybe Dumping salaries like DJ Wilson and Ersan for Bogdan would be appealing to Sac....hopefully they don't have to lose a guy like Donte to get it done.  

You were close, Donte included in the deal for Bogdan