Assuming the Bogdan deal is dead, would you take Hield for the same deal? Would Sacto?
There is also this out there now:
https://twitter.com/PdSandz/st.../1329190235377455105
Heard Windhorst say on the Lowe Post Giannis and Bogdanovic had talked already. He also said there were complaints about tampering cuz FA hasn’t even started. Could just be a leak to get the idea out there no deal is officially agreed upon to avoid tampering charges.
Hopefully just covering for potential tampering ???!!!
@MichiganPacker2 posted:There is also this out there now:
https://twitter.com/PdSandz/st.../1329190235377455105
Heard Windhorst say on the Lowe Post Giannis and Bogdanovic had talked already. He also said there were complaints about tampering cuz FA hasn’t even started. Could just be a leak to get the idea out there no deal is officially agreed upon to avoid tampering charges.
I hope this is just a CYA move. Good grief... what a fucking debacle if this torpedoes the deal...
@tsr86free posted:Is that just a hunch, or did you read about a rumor, MC? I like the idea of getting 3 players in a deep second round to fill the roster out, but obviously if there is a guy they really want hanging around late first, those three picks might get a deal done.
Just a thought. The last time the Bucks loaded up on second round picks, they drafted 3 guys who played about 6 minutes of basketball between them for the Bucks.
@Music City posted:I hope this is just a CYA move. Good grief... what a fucking debacle if this torpedoes the deal...
You have to believe that Horst was making the Holiday and Bogdanovic moves in tandem because if this falls through they don't have any remaining draft capital to use for anything and you then have no idea how to draft tonight. Several possible explanations with only the first good for the Bucks.
1. It's a CYA move for the tampering. Although what concerns me is that Sacramento would be the one to be concerned about tampering and they already announced the trade.
2. Bogdanovic initially agreed but now he's talked to Giannis and he knows Giannis wants out.
3. Bogdanovic initially agreed but another team behind the scenes has gotten to him to indicate they will offer more money. This could be either because they want him or that they know this will force Giannis out of Milwaukee because it will create a clusterfukk for the Bucks.
MIPacker, possibility 3 sounds like tampering by another team, and if it turned out to be possibility 2, we would likely never know, but that would be incredibly shitty of Giannis, and he just doesn’t seem the type to do that.
@tsr86free posted:MIPacker, possibility 3 sounds like tampering by another team, and if it turned out to be possibility 2, we would likely never know, but that would be incredibly shitty of Giannis, and he just doesn’t seem the type to do that.
Those are the only 3 options that make sense. It's most likely #1 because if Bogdanovic was pissed about the situation why would he wait 36 hours to deep six this?
I'd probably never watch the NBA again if they severely punished the Bucks for tampering on this but let the Heat, Raptors, etc. tamper behind the scenes for years with Giannis with ESPN being complicit in trying to get Giannis to a big market to juice their ratings.
If this is really a CYA by the Bucks and Kings, Adam Silver needs to make a decision quickly. Just take away a second-round pick or fine them 500K. They are trying to give Giannis a little less than a quarter billion - what's another 500K?
Trade canceled, per Adrian W at ESPN. Bogdan to enter free agency on Friday. Oh well.
The media will love that all the best players continue to go to the biggest markets, that’s for certain.
Ugh.
Either a tangled web to avoid tampering, or Bogdan fucked us for more money.
I mean, really? This is such a fucked up deal. But it’s typical of the NBA. Idiots like Magic Johnson and LeBron James can run their mouths openly about adding players and no penalty. No tampering there! Nothing to see so move the fuck along.
Just shrink the league to 7-8 teams in big markets and disband the rest. It’s clear to me the NBA and their media partners want nothing to do with small market teams like Milwaukee.
Even if Bogdanovic intends to sign with the Bucks Friday night, another team that wants to try to keep Giannis from re-upping in Milwaukee may go and offer an insane contract for Bogdanovic to prevent the Kings from matching because they know what it will do to the Bucks financial situation.
Agree with Tshmack about the NBA's policies. Kawhi Leonard literally contacted Paul George who was under contract for several more years in OKC and told him he wanted to play with him in LA, so demand a trade. As Tschmack said, Lebron's agent was orchestrating AD's way out of NOLA for almost a year. The Heat and Raptors have been leaking specific deals for Giannis to the media for years and the NBA does nothing about it because they like the attention it brings.
If Giannis doesn't sign the supermax, the Bucks might as well just contract. They will have no draft picks for the next 5 years and no real way to get better unless they trade Giannis for some other team's middling offer. The best offer we may get is Adebayo and Herro. Hello, somewhere between a 5 seed and the lottery every year and there will be no incentive to tank and try to get a star at the top of the draft because they won't have any of those picks. If they let Giannis walk for nothing next year if he doesn't sign, their ceiling is probably 30 wins a year.
Thank goodness the Packers are safe (for now) from this ridiculousness. Long term, they are the only major sports team Wisconsin will be able to retain.
ESPN shows the Bucks only with picks 45 and 60. So they did give pick 42 to New Orleans, apparently.
@tsr86free posted:PJ Tucker.
I'd rather have a 23 year old DDV than a 35 PJ Tucker.
DDV is really the only guy on the playoff roster that had a chance to get significantly better.
I agree with you, I just don’t think they could get much with those three, and Bogdan was probably the very best deal they could hope for. We will have to hope that DDV blossoms into a very good shooter and scorer this season.
I still think Bogdanovic ends up in Milwaukee, but Holiday is still a playoff upgrade.
In the playoffs they had 73 minutes of guard play per game - 30 minutes of Bledsoe, 27 minutes of Hill, and 16 minutes of DDV. They have to replace 57 minutes of Bledsoe and Hill. Can they do that effectively with 36 minutes from Holiday and DDV? It would require Bud to actually adjust to playoff minutes that most teams use, but it would be a lot better than watching Bledsoe almost shake from fear when he was open on the perimeter in clutch time.
Reports coming out tonight that Klay Thompson suffered a significant leg injury today - some outlets reporting an Achilles tear.
David @Lockedonsports "The craziest story of the day is the Bogdan Bogdanovic trade not going through..."@chadfordinsider "This is the biggest smokescreen... Adam Silver may void this trade and maybe even take away a first round pick"@lockedonkings @lockedonbucks pic.twitter.com/ME6us68nF6
— Locked On NBA (@LockedOnNBAPods) November 19, 2020
So the Bucks now lose a first round pick? JFC. Just about done with the NBA if that happens and Giannis leaves.
Looks like Jordan Nwora is the Bucks pick at 45. Someone to sit next to Thanasis on the bench?
@tsr86free posted:So the Bucks now lose a first round pick? JFC. Just about done with the NBA if that happens and Giannis leaves.
The Bucks are done for a decade if Giannis leaves and Holiday follows him on his way out.
@Packdog posted:David @Lockedonsports "The craziest story of the day is the Bogdan Bogdanovic trade not going through..."@chadfordinsider "This is the biggest smokescreen... Adam Silver may void this trade and maybe even take away a first round pick"@lockedonkings @lockedonbucks pic.twitter.com/ME6us68nF6
— Locked On NBA (@LockedOnNBAPods) November 19, 2020
This is a total catastrophe...
@MichiganPacker2 posted:The Bucks are done for a decade if Giannis leaves and Holiday follows him on his way out.
If? I don’t think we’re talking about if. Your front office is so completely incompetent that you can’t pull off a simple sign and trade? You could be one of the leagues most decorated and powerful players for the next decade- are you going to put your career in the hands of a front office that fucks up a simple sign and trade?
I would think it’s new GM time. Bud is on the hot seat, too, although it is starting to look like the Siberia Bucks just screwed the taxpayers for an incredible new venue that is not going to see many wins, so the coach is merely a Titanic deck chair.
WTF??
I think the dust needs to settle on this shit before everyone starts jumping to conclusions.
They either had a deal or they didn't -- let's see it play out.
I do know this much.....I didn't watch the NBA finals this year. Think I'm ever going to watch another NBA game again if the Bucks gets fucked on this bullshit?
LMFAO! Adam Silver needs to step in & make it right if this shit all goes south
Read a couple of more reports today from NBA insiders and they indicated that it wasn’t Bogdanovic or the Kings that were sounding the tampering alarm bells but rather other NBA team executives.
If that’s true, it shouldn’t be surprising because the move makes the Bucks better in the short term and it also increases the likelihood that Giannis sticks around. If I had to guess it’s people like Danny Ainge and Pat Riley and teams in the East. They know a Milwaukee team with Bogs and now Holiday will be an absolute bitch to deal with and for those trying to clear a path for Giannis they also have a vested interest in stirring up the shitstorm.
The reports also stated Bogdanovic wants to play for the Bucks as well. Seems a bit contrary to some things being floated around yesterday?
The one theme that exists is the league is trying to clamp down on tampering given recent rule changes. But it’s been handled so inconsistently that if they drop the hammer on the Bucks there will be many long lasting ramifications and most of them aren’t very good for Milwaukee. It could be the difference between Giannis staying and this team being a contender for the next half decade or losing him and Holiday and the value of the traded picks and this franchise reverting back to the 90s Bucks aka 25-30 win teams.
In the end, I hope it’s just a lot of scuttlebutt and he still joins Milwaukee. The Kings certainly aren’t going to keep him. I also have to trust in what Milwaukee is doing because up to this point Jon Horst has had the magic touch. It would be shocking if they messed this up given what’s transpired up until yesterday.
Mitchell Maurer, a good follow on Twitter who runs the site Brewhoop, points out that the only person that reported that the trade was done was Woj from ESPN. Everyone else said they were only going to “pursue it” and O’Connor even tweeted out that the Hawks were going to pursue him too. Then Woj tweeted the deal was done and everyone reported his tweet. Neither the Kings nor the Bucks announced anything and only Woj names who the Bucks were giving up
A likely scenario is that Woj found out details and tweeted it out. Now there is a situation where a guy working for a media company desperate to get Giannis out of Milwaukee to help tv ratings has one of their reporters tweet out something that might make it more likely for Giannis to leave. Talk about a conflict of interest. I think Woj either intentionally or unintentionally reported something inappropriately he was told off the record.
The precedent for this is the Joe Smith salary cap thing in Minnesota when they made an under the table deal to have Smith sign several one year contracts to help them build the team with Garnett and promised a big contract after that. The NBA found out and took away a bunch of first round picks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Smith_(basketball)#Timberwolves_salary_cap_scandal
I always thought that if Pat Riley got caught doing that the league office would have winked at him and given him a slap on the wrist
I always thought Pat Riley was smarter than Kevin McHale and Glen Taylor.
Listening to some of the local guys on talk radio here in Milwaukee, the Bogdonvich trade still seems like it's going to happen. The local beat writers point of view is that some of the news of the past day or so was "Cover your ass" type stuff to fend off the tampering allegations. We'll see if they're right. After listening to a couple of these guys I am optimistic the trade will happen, but yeah, the NBA has a tendency to want to F*** the smaller markets so it's still up in the air.
@Pikes Peak posted:I always thought Pat Riley was smarter than Kevin McHale and Glen Taylor.
I'm sure he is, but the only reason McHale and Taylor got caught is that Joe Smith switched agents and his former agent turned him in. It's not so much they were stupid, it's that the former agent was going to lose a multi-million dollar commission. I would guess NBA teams pulling this kind of stuff nowadays have confidentiality clauses with the player's lawyers to block this kind of stuff from leaking out. The league just looks the other way anyway. One example is Zion Williams and Nike where some under-the-table stuff happened while he was in high school/college and it got brought to light by an agent who felt screwed over. Nike was sending big money to his mother for a "job" while he was in high school. I realize that was the NCAA, but doesn't that set up a guy to be influenced when he gets to the NBA to keep things quiet (think point shaving) or for Nike to direct him to a big market if he does become a superstar? Shouldn't the NBA be at least somewhat concerned about that?
In the age of Klutch Sports and LeBron and Kawhi tampering with AD and Paul George while they were under contract for several more YEARS with their teams (not 5 days before they become a restricted free agent), the Wolves situation is almost quaint.
The problem with Woj is he works for ESPN and the 4 letter network has the exclusive broadcasting rights for the NBA. It’s absolutely a conflict of interest and how many reporters or employees of ESPN have been stirring up the “trade Giannis” or “Giannis should leave” bullshit and peddling it non stop? Tim Bontemps is one of them. Malika Andrews and that ridiculous article that broke 15 minutes after they lost to Toronto. Steven A Smith is notorious for his opinions on how Giannis should leave or be traded. I’m sure there are others. Brian Windhorst at least seems to have some class and objectivity
I mean, what penalties are there for the media for spreading rumors and misinformation? Jon Horst got fined 50K back in 2019 for simply discussing Giannis contract situation at a town hall, and he’s their player and employee!!
It’s more of the same from the NBA. They want the big markets to succeed and could give 2 shits about small market teams like the Bucks. You know they were thrilled when LeBron left Cleveland to join Miami. Or when PG13 and Kahwi landed in LA. Now they want to see Giannis in a big market as well. The problem is Giannis isn’t wired like those guys. It’s not a money or fame or attention or ego thing. He just wants to win. And you know he feels a certain amount of gratitude and loyalty toward the team that took a chance on him because he was not a top 3 pick. He wasn’t preordained from the start. I just hope in the end he sticks with the Bucks and wins a title or two in Milwaukee so the NBA and the national media can eat a big shit sandwich.
@fightphoe93 posted:Listening to some of the local guys on talk radio here in Milwaukee, the Bogdonvich trade still seems like it's going to happen. The local beat writers point of view is that some of the news of the past day or so was "Cover your ass" type stuff to fend off the tampering allegations. We'll see if they're right. After listening to a couple of these guys I am optimistic the trade will happen, but yeah, the NBA has a tendency to want to F*** the smaller markets so it's still up in the air.
This explains the NBA's preferences (or really more accurately ESPNs).
Roughly 30% of the TV markets are in 10 locations. The NBA has 12 franchises in those cities.
Rank and Size of TV Market
1. NYC 6.8 million, 6.4% of US (Wall Street money)
2. LA 5.1 million, 4.8% (Hollywood money)
3. Chicago 3.3 million, 3.0%
4. Philly 2.8 million, 2.6%
5. Dallas 2.6 million, 2.4% (oil money)
6. Bay Area 2.6 million, 2.2% (plus Silicon Valley money)
7. DC 2.4 million, 2.2% (plus political lobbyist money). Baltimore is less than an hour away and adds another 1.0 million people and 1% basically making it the sie of the Chicago market
8. Houston 2.3 million, 2.2% (oil money)
9. Boston 2.3 million, 2.1%
10. Atlanta 2.3 million, 2.1%
Miami is the 16th biggest market, but I think the fact that the reporters like to spend time in South Beach probably gets it in the conversation rather than the TV ratings.
@Tschmack posted:Brian Windhorst at least seems to have some class and objectivity
I mean, what penalties are there for the media for spreading rumors and misinformation? Jon Horst got fined 50K back in 2019 for simply discussing Giannis contract situation at a town hall, and he’s their player and employee!!
It’s more of the same from the NBA. They want the big markets to succeed and could give 2 shits about small market teams like the Bucks. I just hope in the end he sticks with the Bucks and wins a title or two in Milwaukee so the NBA and the national media can eat a big shit sandwich.
Windhorst is an Akron/Cleveland guy. He actually went to the same high school LeBron did in Akron (he's about 7 years older). The reason we like him better is that deep down he's a small market guy too. The only reason he's on ESPN is that he's got connections to LeBron's circle because he's from Akron.
The tampering fine on Horst for saying they were going to offer the supermax might have been one of the most ridiculous fines in sports history. If Horst would have said "we won't know if we'll offer him the supermax until we get to July of 2020" ESPN would have started running stories non-stop about how the Bucks didn't seem to want to commit to spending big money to try to win. Giannis had just won an MVP at 24 years old, was one of the most marketable athletes in the world, and had been with the franchise from the start and Horst was supposed to say with a straight face "I can't comment on whether we want to keep him long-term?"
I haven't seen this type of thing commented on, but I would guess this might be what have happened. What if Horst and the Bucks are going to get screwed over for doing the right thing? Let's say that O'Connor and Woj both get word that the Bucks and Kings are going to explore a Bogdanovic sign and trade. Obviously, some current Bucks are going to be heading to Sacramento in that case. It's Tuesday and you can't announce anything until Friday, but you have personal relationships with the players involved. So, you call Ersan, DDV, and DJ Wilson to tell them they are likely headed out there and you just wanted to upfront with them about it. Or you call Brook Lopez to tell him - "don't worry, we're keeping you in Milwaukee and you aren't getting swapped for Bogdanovic."
Wilson and both Lopez brothers have the same agent (Matsubara) who also represents Capela and Steven Adams and then a bunch of fringe players who are frantically looking to stay in the league and find a match as quickly as possible.
https://basketball.realgm.com/...Darren-Matsubara/376
Woj's connections are probably the agents as they can use him to leak stories beneficial for their clients and they can feed him enough information to make him look good. Woj hears this sign-and-trade is being explored and calls Matsubara who has heard from his clients (or directly from Horst) and tells Woj the deal.