Holy shit!!!!
I need to apologize for ever doubting his sincerity.
I am happy the kid committed. I really am. It’s a huge win for small market teams. The bullies on the coasts are not just winning for who/what they are. Giannis deserves a lot of credit.
His message has been clear- winning is what matters. Sure, he’s signing the biggest contract in league history, but he’s in a way obligated to do that for the other players in the league. I don’t think it’s hypothetical. It’s the way things are set up.
And I don’t think the impact of this will be felt for a little while. If Zion’s trajectory maintains, and he stays, and Luka stays in Dallas (though not a small market), you have a league that actually is competitive. Teams like the Lakers should have to take their lumps like the Knicks have.
So in the end the kid did the right thing. Was getting a little nervous there...
One of you fuckers is going to blow out an Achilles or ACL with all these sudden 180's you have been doing over the last month. Jesus fuck.
@PackerHawk posted:One of you fuckers is going to blow out an Achilles or ACL with all these sudden 180's you have been doing over the last month. Jesus fuck.
I wanted him to sign because I'm so invested in him as a fan, but you could still argue that if you were a ruthless Bill Belichick/Pat Riley type GM that you'd be better off flipping him for something like the Adebayo/Herro package to optimize your chances of winning. I'm glad we didn't do that and we get to watch him try to make the final steps to becoming a top 10 player all time.
I'm really looking forward to watching him and Middleton complete the path from being 1st year Bucks on a team that won 15 games to NBA champions. It would be much sweeter than cheering for one of these teams that were assembled by Klutch Sports or Kevin Durant's agents. Even if they never get to a title, we are going to have another 4-5 years minimum of watching the most exciting Bucks team of my lifetime.
Still think he gets traded to the Yankees
@"We"-Ka-Bong posted:Still think he gets traded to the Yankees
If we can get Daniel Jones and a 2nd round pick in return I'd make that deal.
@PackerHawk posted:One of you fuckers is going to blow out an Achilles or ACL with all these sudden 180's you have been doing over the last month. Jesus fuck.
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@PackerHawk posted:One of you fuckers is going to blow out an Achilles or ACL with all these sudden 180's you have been doing over the last month. Jesus fuck.
I’m guessing that this doesn’t mean much to you. That’s fine- to some of us it does.
Some of us have been waiting for a team and a player like this their whole lives. It has been emotional, and the conversation has been in line. Shit... for more than a year I was 100% convinced he was staying. Laughed at all the “insiders” and reports about this team and that team ready to deal X or Y for Giannis.
But the last week or so... it’s been harder and harder to ignore. I was so convinced. Had it all rationalized. I just KNEW it... he wasn’t going anywhere. But it was quiet. Too quiet. It was nerve wracking for folks that really do want the Bucks to hoist a banner some day soon.
So if a few people reluctantly got on the fence and then rationalized the other side (even if for a moment), it’s ok. Today isn’t a day for criticism... it’s a day we can be happy to know that for the next 6 seasons, we get to ride a wave now that we never dreamed of.
Merry Christmas Bucks fans!!!
If you want to try to piss on that, go fuck yourself.
I think you have to understand the psyche of a Bucks fan to truly appreciate what this could mean to us.
The Bucks had a unicorn in Kareem Abdul Jabbar. They won a title. That 1971 team was as good as just about any team in NBA history. Had he stayed they probably win a couple of more titles. But wouldn’t you know it - he wanted to be in LA so was traded and the rest is history.
They had a fantastic run in the Don Nelson years. Won more games during a 10 year span than just about any team not named Boston or LA or Philly. But they could never break through.
Then George Karl comes around and they form a spectacular team and come within a game of the NBA Finals only to get fucked over by David Stern and his corrupt fixers that wanted AI in the Finals. Despite the fact that the Bucks beat the Lakers both times during the regular season and the Sixers had no shot. Then Karl goes Karl and trades arguably their second best franchise player for what? And old Gary Payton? Meanwhile, much like Paul Molitor in the end Ray Allen got over and achieved greatness and rings.
Fast forward to Bogut a decade later and they get a spitfire Brandon Jennings and go on a run and AB gets a horrific injury and is never the same player. Once again, the Bucks fade into oblivion.
Then they get lucky and John Hammonds drafts Giannis 15th overall. Another unicorn. He propels them to legitmacy and takes the league by storm, but they come up short in the postseason. 3 years in a row. He’s up for his contract. Teams are lining up to sign him. We are gripping like crazy.
Then today happens.
We have a second chance. This time should be different. To that extent, you need to know what you know. I’m pumped even though yesterday I had a pit in my stomach.
But hey, carry on about 180s or busted wheels or whatever point you are trying to make. How many teams have been left at the alter? Too many. So cut us some slack. Or don’t. In the end we have hope.
@Music City posted:I’m guessing that this doesn’t mean much to you. That’s fine- to some of us it does.
Means a lot to me. I've been a fan since the late 70's.
Thanks to you and Tschmuck for the history lesson I didn't need. Now go ice down your ankles and take a few weeks to rest. There's no more need to hype up a guy that the team never trade for and then pretend like you never wanted him in the first place.
No more need to make this extension a do or die proposal and then a couple weeks later have all the trade scenarios planned out and the preemptive fuck that guy attitude.
I was a kid, but remember when Kareem headed to LAL. Gut wrenching.
Today - different story. Todays Vibe in MKE is special for fans.
Think the NFL Draft is a crap shoot ? Try the NBA:
My ankles are fine. I ran 35 miles last week. But thanks for the advice. I’ll be fine this week as well. I’ll log another 30-40.
I’m glad you had the intuition and foresight to know he’d sign. And then lecture the rest of us about it. Got damn dude. Good for you. I feel a lot better now!
Music City summed up things pretty well and yes we may not always agree on things but who cares? It’s social fucking media. Just let people speak their mind. After all, it’s just like your opinion man.
"I love Milwaukee." pic.twitter.com/Vh914HyoML
— Milwaukee Bucks (@Bucks) December 15, 2020
Glad I can continue to watch the Bucks and the NBA for at least the next 4 years.
@PackerHawk posted:Means a lot to me. I've been a fan since the late 70's.
Thanks to you and Tschmuck for the history lesson I didn't need. Now go ice down your ankles and take a few weeks to rest. There's no more need to hype up a guy that the team never trade for and then pretend like you never wanted him in the first place.
No more need to make this extension a do or die proposal and then a couple weeks later have all the trade scenarios planned out and the preemptive fuck that guy attitude.
Didn’t I tell you to go fuck yourself? I mean... I was pretty clear I think.
I’m old enough to have been a pumped up 10-year-old kid in love with the Alcindor Bucks. This is the 2nd best day I’ve had as a Bucks fan.
Tshmack....why so angry all the time? Seems like you have a good wife, life and family. Enjoy it.
Same for Music City.
I am fortunate BK. Honestly, in these completely fucked up times I am doing pretty well. I’m a lucky guy and I don’t take It for granted. But I work hard and play hard. That’s my deal. And I can’t stand the passive aggressive crowd that resides on this board. Always trying to correct others for simply stating an opinion. Speak your peace. It’s all good.
I also post how I feel when I feel it. Real time. I know it’s not always what people want to hear and maybe it’s not PC or measured but let’s get real this is a blog or forum. I’ll gladly own up and deal with it if I’m inappropriate but the constant brow beating over people commenting or sharing their opinions in the moment is puzzling to me.
Some of the best dialogue on X4 is on the Bucks thread. I mean, it’s top notch in terms of information and content. Quite frankly, other then maybe than the Brewers thread (at times) the rest can get boring and played out.
Now we can get back to debating about defensive and offensive schemes. As Music said earlier in the thread, the first part of the season is very likely to be a work in progress. A graphic during last night's games shows the Bucks are something like 25th in the league in terms of the percentage of minutes played returning from last year (and the other teams lower than them are all lottery teams). 50% of the minutes played last year are from guys no longer on the team. That's a lot of adjustments.
They start in Boston in 8 days facing a Celtic team that in the last 2 years has lost Gordon Hayward, Al Horford, and Kyrie Irving (and replaced him with Kemba Walker who is out with what looks like a degenerative knee issue for at least 6-8 weeks). The only signing of note to replace those guys is Tristan Thompson. Ainge looked great being gifted Kevin Garnett by McHale (along with Ray Allen) and winning a title and then flipping Garnett and Pierce for multiple picks (Tatum and J. Brown) from the Nets. Since then, he hasn't made very many good moves. Hayward was a miss and Irving was a team killer (although better than a used up I. Thomas). He lost Horford for nothing.
The second game is against the Warriors on Christmas Day (and we'll likely get to watch Bucks basketball on XMas for another 5-6 years minimum). The Warriors are a lot different without Klay (or Durant), but still a nice test for the drop defense but with this Warriors team the only guy that scares you from 3 is Curry.
They then get the Knicks. A 3-0 start is possible, but they'll likely have some bumps before they gel and now we don't have to worry about there be 3,000 word dissertations written by every national writer about how a team going on an 8-0 run against them in the third quarter means Giannis is leaving.
The 4th and 5th games are a doubleheader back-to-back in Miami. That will tell us a lot about whether Bud is going to try some different things schematically.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread (pre-Giannis signing) how they handle Lopez will be interesting. Do you play Giannis at the 5 and switch everything against the Heat or do they keep dropping and hoping that teams don't shoot a high percentage of 3s. What do they do in the half-court for offensive sets? Again, we can just sit back and watch how the adjustments work or don't work without worrying about whether the Bucks will be irrelevant in a year.
@Music City posted:Didn’t I tell you to go fuck yourself? I mean... I was pretty clear I think.
You didn't say please.
It's great to read these reactions from other teams and the new spin on how Giannis' decision to stay in Milwaukee is a good thing for long-term planning
Toronto reaction
https://www.raptorshq.com/2020...ronto-raptors-plan-b
Warriors reaction
https://sports.yahoo.com/giann...clear-223213829.html
Heat
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/s...3lp3eg7h4-story.html
Mavericks
@MichiganPacker2 posted:the first part of the season is very likely to be a work in progress.
No doubt. But even with a rebuilt roster, I would hope Bud realizes he needs to make some changes during the regular season. Winning 60 games is awesome, but they need to become more playoff ready - experiment with some things - during the regular season in order to take that next step(not bow out of the playoffs early).
Huge investments by the organization in signing Giannis to the Super-Max, spending massive assets for Jrue Holiday, Middelton's contract, etc....heck building Fiserv and Deer District. Looking at you Bud !!! LOB or bust !!
@Packdog posted:Huge investments by the organization in signing Giannis to the Super-Max, spending massive assets for Jrue Holiday, Middelton's contract, etc....heck building Fiserv and Deer District. Looking at you Bud !!! LOB or bust !!
It’s a very good point. Pressure is squarely on the staff now...
First of all, even the most crestfallen Toronto Raptors fan should raise a glass to the city of Milwaukee and their basketball team.
Few markets know what it’s like to be overlooked and underrated by the greater NBA than Raptors fans, so they should have at least a grudging appreciation that Milwaukee – a cold and forlorn place during the basketball season – can bask in the sun for once.
Continue here......
YALL THOUGHT pic.twitter.com/lSKutTrJK4
— Bucks Nation (@MKEBucksNation) December 15, 2020
I wouldn’t feel too bad for Toronto. They made their bed and got a title which is something the Bucks are still trying to accomplish. They may have the best GM and coach combo in the league. I think they’ll be fine.
Boston is a different matter. If you are the Celtics you are now squarely positioned in the NBAs no mans land. Good enough to be a 3/4/5 seed, but not really a threat to challenge in the East. Especially if Kemba Walker is down for weeks if not months.
Miami and Philly are the teams to watch because they have some decisions to make. If you are the Sixers, do you flip Simmons for Harden and see if it works knowing he’s gone in 2 years? Or do you run out the same overrated team that wilts in pressure situations despite having a lot of talent? As for Miami, they will always have the advantage of being Miami, but Pat Riley probably had several scotches once he realized Giannis was staying in Milwaukee because that’s now a team he has to worry about for the next 4-5 years and I don’t think he was expecting it. Yes they have a good team and a good culture but let’s not forget Jimmy Buckets is a mercurial guy and if his mood or attitude changes that team turns into the Kyrie Irving Celtics in a hurry.
Something else to consider is small market or not I think this opens the door for opportunities for a key player or two to actually want to join the Bucks to get a ring. I realize it sounds ridiculous but why not? I know we all got a kick out of Giannis encouraging other superstars to join him but if Kahwi can do it in Toronto then it could happen for others.
@MichiganPacker2 posted:It's great to read these reactions from other teams and the new spin on how Giannis' decision to stay in Milwaukee is a good thing for long-term planning
Toronto reaction
https://www.raptorshq.com/2020...ronto-raptors-plan-b
Warriors reaction
https://sports.yahoo.com/giann...clear-223213829.html
Heat
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/s...3lp3eg7h4-story.html
Mavericks
I can hear the tendons popping from 100's of miles away!
@Tschmack posted:I wouldn’t feel too bad for Toronto. They made their bed and got a title which is something the Bucks are still trying to accomplish. They may have the best GM and coach combo in the league. I think they’ll be fine.
Boston is a different matter. If you are the Celtics you are now squarely positioned in the NBAs no mans land. Good enough to be a 3/4/5 seed, but not really a threat to challenge in the East. Especially if Kemba Walker is down for weeks if not months.
Miami and Philly are the teams to watch because they have some decisions to make. If you are the Sixers, do you flip Simmons for Harden and see if it works knowing he’s gone in 2 years? Or do you run out the same overrated team that wilts in pressure situations despite having a lot of talent? As for Miami, they will always have the advantage of being Miami, but Pat Riley probably had several scotches once he realized Giannis was staying in Milwaukee because that’s now a team he has to worry about for the next 4-5 years and I don’t think he was expecting it. Yes they have a good team and a good culture but let’s not forget Jimmy Buckets is a mercurial guy and if his mood or attitude changes that team turns into the Kyrie Irving Celtics in a hurry.
Something else to consider is small market or not I think this opens the door for opportunities for a key player or two to actually want to join the Bucks to get a ring. I realize it sounds ridiculous but why not? I know we all got a kick out of Giannis encouraging other superstars to join him but if Kahwi can do it in Toronto then it could happen for others.
As I said on this forum during the Raptors title run, the celebration after that title win had a weird vibe to it. For a guy like Kyle Lowry, it was great to watch. But of their top 6 guys (and obviously for their star player), half of them spent less than 80 games as Raptors. Kawhi played 60 regular-season games for them, Danny Green played 80, and Gasol played 70. All 3 spent less than 10% of their careers in Toronto. When they have title reunions over the years, will those guys even show up?
A lot of title teams have short-term guys added to get them over the hump going back to Oscar Robertson on the Bucks, but at least until recently most of them were anchored by long-term fan favorites. Even LeBron's Heat teams had D-Wade on them. The Bucks two top players are both going to be there for over 10 years. Cheering for teams this year like the Lakers, Clippers, and Nets (3 of the top 5 teams in the league) is like cheering for clothing instead of being invested in the players.
If you asked Raptors fans they'd probably still take the title, but it had to be bittersweet to trade away an multiple time all-star player (DeRozen) to get the key guy to win it. Kawhi couldn't wait to get out of there even after he won a title and DeRozen had adopted Toronto as his home and became invested in the community.
Toronto is in a similar situation to Milwaukee. It’s not a destination for free agents.
That being said, it’s good to see some of these “small market” teams like Milwaukee and Portland and Utah and Denver be competitive. The common theme is having some younger star players in place for a period of time.
Things have a way of self correcting over time and perhaps the AAU banana boat joining forces in big markets will come to pass. I do think for foreign born players it’s less of a problem because they didn’t grow up in that type of situation so for Doncic and Giannis and Jokic and Gobert and Siakim (among others) they are more likely to stay put.
It may also shift emphasis for some teams to tilt toward drafting players from other countries.
The ultimate power move for the Bucks and Giannis would be to go public with these Tweets. I would bet there are some references that people like Pat Riley, Masai Uriji, Bob Myers, Mark Cuban (and the NBA head offices) might be a little uncomfortable with. You know, a lot of the same people who expressed outrage over the Bucks supposedly tampering to get a guy who would have been their 4th offensive option and whose own team declined to match a half-max offer.
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LOL. If you change teams to ring chase, you are a coward (Durant and LeBron) but if you stay on the same team (Giannis) and don't optimize your chances you are a coward. Got it.
And these are the type of guys that ESPN and the media feature instead of the type of analysis I like to read (Zach Lowe NBA analysis, Ron Jaworski NFL matchup type stuff).
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I see the Bucks in the 7th game of the finals, score tied, 3 seconds on the clock, 34 at the free throw line...
Can a zillion dollars hire a free throw coach?
@MichiganPacker2 posted:LOL. If you change teams to ring chase, you are a coward (Durant and LeBron) but if you stay on the same team (Giannis) and don't optimize your chances you are a coward. Got it.
And these are the type of guys that ESPN and the media feature instead of the type of analysis I like to read (Zach Lowe NBA analysis, Ron Jaworski NFL matchup type stuff).
Plaster that shit all over his locker, his bathroom, his car, his baby stroller, his closet, at the bottom of every cup and bowl he uses, in his sunglasses, and on the Jumbotron at Fiserv.
Well, there’s no question this team was distracted and didn’t carry forward the same energy and intensity in the bubble so not sure you can assume much for this year.
Also, no Bledsoe and Hill but Holiday and Augustin instead? I’ll say that’s an upgrade.
https://www.nbcsports.com/wash...e-trade-bradley-beal
That would've been nice.
Giannis sitting out tonight. Good thing he signed or the comments after this game would have been deafening as the Pelicans open up a 35-20 lead on the Bucks after a quarter.
Bucks come back and look good in Quarters 2 and 3. Basically, Middleton went off.
Pelicans leave their starters play 35 minutes to get a win
Bucks surely not treating preseason like it matters. And honestly why should they? These game don’t mean anything.
Now, I do think it’s important that the players get reps to acclimate themselves to each other and learn their tendencies but I have a sense we will see a lot of sluggish and sloppy play the beginning of the season. In reality, they didn’t have much of an offseason and for teams like the LAL and Bucks and Clippers and Nuggets that changed over a number of players I expect some growing pains.