Let's Talk Cowboys (Divisional Playoff Game 1/15/17)

I agree H5 but part of a play's design, especially at the NFL level is not to waste wide open receivers that can pick up yards and first downs.

What I mean is that the route designs along with the read progression should be coordinated to take advantage of as many possible receivers on each play. 

I assume routes are meant to break open at different times and the QB's progression takes him from the first to the last in order.

It would be a tremendous waste of all the effort and talent at the NFL level if the design of the offense didn't take this into account. 

I just can't believe it is acceptable at that level to not get the ball to wide open receivers.

I get that PB and FS, just don't think it is as simple as we make it to be. I'd bet I could find countless plays from numerous all-pro or HOF QBs where they did not throw to an open receiver early in the play.

I tweeted at ZKruse 'cause I'd like to look at those plays in game speed on the ALL-22 to see what might be going on.

*

Hungry5 posted:

I get that PB and FS, just don't think it is as simple as we make it to be.

Agree. I am not saying that it is simple. What I am saying is that pounding the table saying nobody is getting open is not the reason our offense struggles sometimes. And AR scrambling around and finding somebody downfield isn't necessarily evidence that he is a great QB.

IMO we need to get out of this extend every play mentality and find a way to utilize open receivers that the offensive play calls are creating. Especially if we ever need to rely on another QB.

It may be film study, adjusting read progressions, or just calming AR down...but with the brains and the talent at the NFL level, there has to be a way to take advantage of wide open receivers.

Take the Adams TD we talked about earlier. I would be more impressed with a QB that got through his reads and found the open man quickly and delivered the ball for an easy TD than I am about a QB who made his OLine block for so long and then forced a throw into a very tight window.

It's absolutely not as simple as it's made out to be. And I dont ****ing get this Aaron needs to get his **** together chatter. **** Me. You put Tom Brady's numbers in his last 8 games against Aaron's last 8 games and Aaron beats Tom's doors off in every measurable stat. It ain't close.  And Aaron has now played 4 playoff teams over his last 8 games. And won them all. Tom has faced 2. And one of those was Miami. And lost the other.

if the thinking is Aaron needs to be better then he's being asked to be better than anything anyone has ever seen at the position. Which by the way is Aaron. 

Calming AR down????? Are you ****ing serious? Geezus mother of Mary I can't believe this. 

The offense had something like 7 total yards for the first 25 minutes of the game and then put up 400 in the last 35 minutes.

What caused that change in your opinion?

Aaron Rodgers. 

Exactly.

He obviously changed the way he was playing. Calmed down one might say. Took the shorter, open throws on time instead of holding the ball as much. And he admitted as much after the game IIRC. It was very successful operation of the offense.

Do we know what the result of the play was in the picture? The suspense is killing me!

We got blown out in Madden, but Steelers and Seahawks won.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/...adden-171741431.html

FreeSafety posted:

Hungry5 posted:

I get that PB and FS, just don't think it is as simple as we make it to be.

Agree. I am not saying that it is simple. What I am saying is that pounding the table saying nobody is getting open is not the reason our offense struggles sometimes. And AR scrambling around and finding somebody downfield isn't necessarily evidence that he is a great QB.

IMO we need to get out of this extend every play mentality and find a way to utilize open receivers that the offensive play calls are creating. Especially if we ever need to rely on another QB.

It may be film study, adjusting read progressions, or just calming AR down...but with the brains and the talent at the NFL level, there has to be a way to take advantage of wide open receivers.

Take the Adams TD we talked about earlier. I would be more impressed with a QB that got through his reads and found the open man quickly and delivered the ball for an easy TD than I am about a QB who made his OLine block for so long and then forced a throw into a very tight window.

I'm thankful that he's finding them period.

Madden doesn't have the refs to make sure the Packers win.

Hungry5 posted:

What we don't know with still pics, and I admit I've used pics like this to question WTF? on some plays, but we don't know the defense called or the progression dictated by the play called. Plus, it all happens in the blink of an eye. Except when they call the 9-second pass play.

packerboi posted:

Worth noting...

Zach Kruse Verified account ‏@zachkruse2

Jared Cook was open A LOT against the Giants, even while Rodgers struggled early. 89 is a big X-factor again vs. Cowboys.

It also might be that the Giants were giving him defensive looks that he hadn't seen before. That might be what the slow starts are from - as you said this happens in the blink of an eye and Rodgers is trying to recognize the coverage schemes that the opposing team is using. Once he gets a read on their coverages for that game it's often lights out after that.  A lot of good QBs function like this - once they figure out what a defense is designed to do they make very quick reads without having to "see" all of the field - they just know where guys are likely to be. The best example of this was the Jarrett Bush interception against Roethlisberger in the Super Bowl. He threw it right to Bush because Roethlisberger had read the coverage the Packers were in and Bush messed up and was in the wrong place or had purposely dropped the coverage he was supposed to be in - and he ended up where Big Ben had no idea he'd be.

http://www.steelers.com/news/a...15-ad75-9753afb39935

* Roethlisberger’s second interception came on an attempted slant to Mike Wallace. Jarrett Bush came off his man and beat Wallace to the spot for the interception that the Packers turned into a 21-3 lead four plays later on a 21-yard pass to Greg Jennings from Aaron Rodgers.

This is one of the reasons I believe that Holmgren used to give for scripting the first 15 plays. They were often designed in a way to help him figure out what the coverage strategies were for the opposing team based on motion, personnel groupings, formations, etc.

Grave Digger posted:

Do we know what the result of the play was in the picture? The suspense is killing me!

From Kruse:

"Rodgers took a sack.

You can't see it in the all-22, but there's a deep safety, too. Still think 12 wanted to go to 87"

Basically AR wanted to go deep for a homerun ball to Jordy but ended up taking a sack instead of getting it to a wide open Cook underneath.

I get the whole "not looking the gift horse in the mouth" with AR because of his history of greatness and the run he is currently on.  But it is puzzling how the first half of the game looked a helluva lot like the 3 game skid wrt him not finding open receivers, being inaccurate, etc.  One difference being NYG came in with the "hottest pass D" going.  We don't know what we don't know but it is baffling to those watching how much contrast there is between bizarro AR and regular AR.

ChilliJon posted:

It's absolutely not as simple as it's made out to be. And I dont ****ing get this Aaron needs to get his **** together chatter. **** Me. You put Tom Brady's numbers in his last 8 games against Aaron's last 8 games and Aaron beats Tom's doors off in every measurable stat. It ain't close.  And Aaron has now played 4 playoff teams over his last 8 games. And won them all. Tom has faced 2. And one of those was Miami. And lost the other.

if the thinking is Aaron needs to be better then he's being asked to be better than anything anyone has ever seen at the position. Which by the way is Aaron. 

 

 

That's not the point though. It is a philosophical thing, I guess, but the feeling among folks like me is that AR, good as he is, could be so much better if he were more patient.

Home run addiction.

Hard to imagine taking a sack in the above image when the play design created a wide open Cook underneath.

The score was either 3-0 or 6-0 at that point and the Packers were having a hard time moving the chains and gaining positive yardage. Not the time for a home run or sack type of decision. 

Again, AR looked like a different player in the second half. Took the quick slants and moved the chains. 

This could be significant.

Quinten Rollins was back on the field for the first time since he was carted off with a... https://t.co/gIzEHck06N pic.twitter.com/fic5oraR5t

— Rob Demovsky (@RobDemovsky) January 11, 2017

Rollins was inactive for the week 6 game. If Rollins can go, other than Shields, the defense will be essentially at full strength.

Not practicing for the Packers:
Jordy Nelson
Jeff Janis
James Starks
Julius Peppers
JC Tretter
Only Janis was... https://t.co/UeHhCYjwih

— Rob Demovsky (@RobDemovsky) January 11, 2017

Rodgers admitted it was his fault during the on field interview after the game.

FreeSafety posted:

Exactly.

He obviously changed the way he was playing. Calmed down one might say. Took the shorter, open throws on time instead of holding the ball as much. And he admitted as much after the game IIRC. It was very successful operation of the offense.

Or.... he figured out what NY was trying to do on defense. Would it be great if it didn't take 5 possessions? Yep. But Spagnoula gets paid a great deal of money to prevent things from being easy for offenses. And disguising coverage. He didn't calm down. He figured it out. Just like Detroit. 

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of success that I provide. And then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just say thank you. And went on your way. Otherwise. I suggest you put on some pads. And try slot. Either way. I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled too!"

What Aaron would say to any armchair web jockey who thinks this **** is simple enough a Ponder could do it. 

Rodgers admitted it was McCarthy that got him on the right track.

Janis wasn't practicing?

Season's over. 

There was this play.

3-4-NYG 34 (5:14) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left. PENALTY on GB-A.Rodgers, Intentional Grounding, 10 yards, enforced at NYG 34

Then there was this look at the jumbo tron replay.

The next Packers series? Adams for 31 to the NYG 7, Monty run for 2, Adams TD.

GBP 7, NYG 6.

Goalline posted:

ChilliJon posted:

It's absolutely not as simple as it's made out to be. And I dont ****ing get this Aaron needs to get his **** together chatter. **** Me. You put Tom Brady's numbers in his last 8 games against Aaron's last 8 games and Aaron beats Tom's doors off in every measurable stat. It ain't close.  And Aaron has now played 4 playoff teams over his last 8 games. And won them all. Tom has faced 2. And one of those was Miami. And lost the other.

if the thinking is Aaron needs to be better then he's being asked to be better than anything anyone has ever seen at the position. Which by the way is Aaron. 

 

 

That's not the point though. It is a philosophical thing, I guess, but the feeling among folks like me is that AR, good as he is, could be so much better if he were more patient.

How much better can he possibly be than the past 8 weeks? He's been positively perfect. Are we that spoiled by him that the best anyone has ever watched isn't quite good enough? I don't think it's possible to win 9 games in 8 starts but is that the expectation now? 

I would humbly suggest that part of why Rodgers has been so good during that time is that he learns from his mistakes, whether it is from his own ability to figure it out or MM's coaching.  His success doesn't mean he's perfect, it means he's willing to constantly work on improving.

Hungry5 posted:

Rodgers admitted it was McCarthy that got him on the right track.

Which in my mind is MM saying something like:

"Calm down. Quit try to score a TD on every play, quit holding the ball so long and thinking you need to scramble around and make something happen all the time. Just stay in the pocket, run the plays that I call, throw the ball on time and hit the open receivers that everybody in this stadium can see."

To me, that is a good job by the coach and a good job by the player for hearing what his coach is telling him.

Don't forget, this will be Dak's first playoff game.   Don't you think we will throw everything, including the kitchen sink, at him early and often?  Disorient him and hopefully get a turnover early, and they may choke.

Hungry5 posted:

There was this play.

3-4-NYG 34 (5:14) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left. PENALTY on GB-A.Rodgers, Intentional Grounding, 10 yards, enforced at NYG 34

Then there was this look at the jumbo tron replay.

The next Packers series? Adams for 31 to the NYG 7, Monty run for 2, Adams TD.

GBP 7, NYG 6.

I don't have any question that during the 4 game losing streak there was one serious come to Jesus meeting at 1265. I will always believe some nasty thoughts were aired. By all involved. And somehow everyone got busy getting busy. I'll always give credit to Mike for pulling a sinking ship out of the water. That's coaching on the highest level. But I also think Aaron has always been Aaron. He didn't forget how to play QB. It required buy in and sell out by everyone. 

Aaron stating he maybe got outside the plan while playing a near perfect game speaks to the level they are all 100% invested and talking the same goal. 

But I'm going to maintain you can't play better than Aaron has been playing. If anything he's finally proven for all time he's better than Brett if for no other reason than he wants to do it his way but realizes the coach has a plan. And if you somehow manage to manage those two you do what he's doing. 

Not practicing today were Jordy Nelson and Jeff Janis.

brain transplant?

Between the two?  That would be ideal for this weekend.  And not impossible.  Creepy as **** but not impossible.

Doctor Ready for First Head Transplant

Hungry5 posted:

There was this play.

3-4-NYG 34 (5:14) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left. PENALTY on GB-A.Rodgers, Intentional Grounding, 10 yards, enforced at NYG 34

Then there was this look at the jumbo tron replay.

The next Packers series? Adams for 31 to the NYG 7, Monty run for 2, Adams TD.

GBP 7, NYG 6.

Mike McCarthy.  Quarterback whisperer.  

I'm serious.  You can criticize MM for a number of things, but the one thing he has demonstrated over the course of his career is that he knows how to coach the quarterback position.  He played a key role in both reviving Favre's career and developing Rodgers.  He's one of the best in the business when it comes to the key position on the football field.    

RoyalWulff posted:

Don't forget, this will be Dak's first playoff game.   Don't you think we will throw everything, including the kitchen sink, at him early and often?  Disorient him and hopefully get a turnover early, and they may choke.

That's why it would be great to see the Packers up early.  Put the pressure on Dak - it'll be unlike any pressure he's experienced before.  Let's see how the young, inexperienced QB responds.  

Mike Angelo had good marble to work with.....

The defenders get their hands on any errant Dak throws, they need to catch them.

Hungry5 posted:

There was this play.

3-4-NYG 34 (5:14) (Shotgun) A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left. PENALTY on GB-A.Rodgers, Intentional Grounding, 10 yards, enforced at NYG 34

This play struck me, I assumes "somebody" wasn't in the general vicinity of where they were supposed to be.  

But now I think McStupidface just didn't call a smart and disciplined play 

WarrenSpahn posted:

Hungry5 posted:

Rodgers admitted it was McCarthy that got him on the right track.

Which in my mind is MM saying something like:

"Calm down. Quit try to score a TD on every play, quit holding the ball so long and thinking you need to scramble around and make something happen all the time. Just stay in the pocket, run the plays that I call, throw the ball on time and hit the open receivers that everybody in this stadium can see."

To me, that is a good job by the coach and a good job by the player for hearing what his coach is telling him.

Hard to argue with this

DH13 posted:

Between the two?  That would be ideal for this weekend.  And not impossible.  Creepy as **** but not impossible.

Doctor Ready for First Head Transplant

 

Which in my mind is MM saying something like:

"Calm down. Quit try to score a TD on every play, quit holding the ball so long and thinking you need to scramble around and make something happen all the time. Just stay in the pocket, run the plays that I call, throw the ball on time and hit the open receivers that everybody in this stadium can see."

"No more rocket balls, please."

El-Ka-Bong posted:

WarrenSpahn posted:

Hungry5 posted:

Rodgers admitted it was McCarthy that got him on the right track.

Which in my mind is MM saying something like:

"Calm down. Quit try to score a TD on every play, quit holding the ball so long and thinking you need to scramble around and make something happen all the time. Just stay in the pocket, run the plays that I call, throw the ball on time and hit the open receivers that everybody in this stadium can see."

To me, that is a good job by the coach and a good job by the player for hearing what his coach is telling him.

Hard to argue with this

Yeah. It kind of is. 

This is after Aaron calmed down and went check down and out on time. I mean everyone in the stadium saw Cobb open after Aaron looked off the safety to Cook. 

I mean. Rip was wide open for an easy first down. You have to go there. Right? You can't get all irresponsible and pull that **** down for an easy SEVEN because Cobb ran a route he knew would be single coverage?