If GB needs to bring in a position coach to light a fire under the DC's ass, "stand up to him" or create some sort of sense of urgency, GB has a DC problem.
Filling your support staff with former head coaches indicates confidence.
The weak and unsure would view it as a threat to their job security. The strong and confident will celebrate it and utilize the experience.
I'd bet my left testicle that MLF and Pettine fall in the confident category and this isn't some move to light a fire under Pettine. It's a move that he probably signed off on because he thinks it will help the team improve.
Agreed... and for the record, I don't believe any of what I posted is accurate. I'm just regurgitating some of the general comments above mine.
Timmy! posted:Many, many years ago, I was a manager for a fast oil change franchisee. I had been on the job for 6 months or so, and was approached by my boss, asking if I wanted to take on an ex-manager that had just recently resigned.
I could've looked at this 2 ways; become paranoid that the company wanted to 'plant a spy' or set me up to take over my job, or jump on a unique opportunity to add experience, maturity, and skill to my staff.I chose the latter, and never looked back. It worked wonderfully well, and benefited me (and the company) greatly.
So did you hold up a mirror to show Touchdownwhitewaterjesus what a dipstick looks like?
I can't help but imagine the gas station scene from the jerk.
Henry posted:Isn't the mark of a successful franchise constant power struggles? Jesus fuck.
Also, 1st frickin' year HC. Pettine is "tenured" at 2 years. McVince cronies? Really?
Another thing, Pettine isn't hiring or firing anyone. It was one of McVince's turds who "left" that made Gray's hiring possible. Pettine was saddled with McVince yes men as much as anyone.
I don't think that's true. Pettine got saddled with holdovers last year, but seemingly cleaned house. I think the mandate from Murphy was to cut the shit with FO not listening to the coaches and maybe even the HC not listening to his staff. I think Pettine cut the slugs that needed to be cut and kept the good coaches. Montgomery is obviously a good coach, he's developed KC into a superstar and gotten Lowry and Lanc to play well at times despite their shortcomings. I think he and Simmons were the only holdovers from 2018, so I'm not sure he was saddled with anyone he didn't want. He got to bring his old buddy Mike Smith over from KC.
Because Moss was shit canned. That was a no brainer. I don't think Pettine cleaned house at all, he simply brought in guys for vacancies. He didn't create the vacancies.
Not pointed at you GD but the point being having someone to "challenge" Pettine makes it sound like he has an iron fist over the defensive staff after years of failure. For fuck sakes, it was a really bad game. The hysterics take on a life of their own.
Real simple. If both sides of ball don't improve with a solid talent infusion and more experience on the staff then take a look at your 2nd year DC and first year HC. It amazes me after this team seriously over performed on a soft rebuild that people are shitting their pants about getting beat in the NFCCG. Was Pettine's plan total crap as the defense supported the offense all year long? I also find it amusing that a philosophy of stopping the pass in a passing league is somehow a failure. Yet, they were primarily in a run defense all game long against SF. They just couldn't stop them. Yeah, Pettine needs to grow and learn just like Mayo. He's still a young guy too.
Damn, get some perspective people.
Oh I agree with you. I don't think there's any subtext with hiring Gray beyond the fact that he's a well regarded position coach. The fact that he's a former DC doesn't really mean anything other than it's another experience voice in the room. Joe Whitt got sent packing as well and the ILB coach (McCurley?). I think the new theme with this team is NOT forcing any coaches or players on anyone they don't want. I honestly think that was the feedback (players forced on him) MM gave to Murphy after 2017, which is why they changed the org structure and then I think Pettine probably gave the same feedback (coaches forced on him) to Murphy about MM after the 2018 season. I don't think Pettine was forced on MLF, I think he wanted him because he's a good DC, why wouldn't he want him? I think they let Pettine more/less choose his staff with MLF having ultimate authority.
DH13 posted:I can't help but imagine the gas station scene from the jerk.
They're shooting at the cans....somebody doesn't like the cans!
Florio & Simms interview Z'Darius
https://www.nbcsports.com/vide...sing-49ers-nfc-title
Z: We weren't ready to play.
That's just great. I know it's first year & all...and I am happy with how well they played to get to the NFCCG, but I just don't get it -- they need to figure out what's going to work when traveling to the West coast.
A bunch of fucking millionaires can't get themselves ready to play a fucking game. Pathetic
Amazing that Z would say that. Does that put us in position for bigger things in '20? I cant imagine his teammates are happy that he called them out.
DH13 posted:I can't help but imagine the gas station scene from the jerk.
RochNyFan posted:They're shooting at the cans....somebody doesn't like the cans!
I was going to ask which one?
"These oil cans are defective!" or "Mr. Nussbaum"?
MNPackman posted:Amazing that Z would say that. Does that put us in position for bigger things in '20? I cant imagine his teammates are happy that he called them out.
I bet they are pissed and they should be. Not that Z called them out but because they know deep inside that they need to be more prepared as a professional.
Z really just saying the same thing that MLF did.
Timmy! posted:DH13 posted:I can't help but imagine the gas station scene from the jerk.
RochNyFan posted:They're shooting at the cans....somebody doesn't like the cans!
I was going to ask which one?
"These oil cans are defective!" or "Mr. Nussbaum"?
The oil cans among other things. We all know who Navin is in this scenario. Or maybe he's the dog.
michiganjoe posted:Z really just saying the same thing that MLF did.
Exactly. Coach/Player speak. The Packers simply aren't at that level yet. Hell of a year considering.
They're not at that level but I think they're at a level above what they showed a couple weeks ago. It looked clear to me that the D was not mentally prepared for that game. I think everybody saw that. Not sure how you change.
Fair assessment. These guys are professionals but most of them are kids for the most part. Coaches definitely need to take the lion share of the blame.
Just seems wrong without Preston Smiff next to him saying "mmhmm...dig..." after his comments.
Apparently he doesn't make rash decisions after two games either.
That said, I don't believe Pettine was the problem. Need to upgrade ILB, need to upgrade the guy next to Kenny Clark.
Defense did a lot to get to the NFC Championship Game.
Did we all forget the 2 games vs. the Vikings? How about game #1 vs. the Bears in Chicago? Playoffs vs. Seattle. The Dallas game (but they did have trouble after Savage went out in 4th Q)
The defense needs an upgrade in a couple spots to get to CHAMPIONSHIP level. Pettine has done well so far & it's not time to get rid of him yet. Proper decision to keep him on at this time.
Would have been very surprised if they dumped Pettine. Defense did play really well at times and in big games... certainly the season numbers were helped by Daniel Jones, David Blaugh, Dwayne Haskins, Matt Moore, Kyle Allen, Mitch Trubisky, etc....
Obviously have to fix the run defense. Packers defense was 25th in opponent YPC last year.
Then the NFCCC game where Mostert went for a record 220 yards and 4 Touchdowns. Read where Pettine stayed in 3 man fronts 78.2% of the plays. That seems criminal.
Still have doubts about Pettine, but have to give him better tools at ILB and DE to fully complete the defense before overreacting.
"Then the NFCCC game where Mostert went for a record 220 yards and 4 Touchdowns. Read where Pettine stayed in 3 man fronts 78.2% of the plays. That seems criminal."
That was almost Dom-like in his response to Kapernick....
Staying in a run defense against a team running the ball?
Three man front is a run defense? that would assume we have talented linebackers.
The players got beat plain and simple. Guys like Lowry and Lancaster were a joke and Pettine put in as much beef as possible. Dom didn't adjust for RPO. Pettine and the players just plain got beat.
One fucking game in a rebuild year and they made it to the NFCC. Jesus.
I don't know how often, but there were sometimes scheme issues. In one, the Packer defender was lined up at the LoS on his right side. He blitzed and there wasn't a player near him. The 49'er left tackle ran upfield and to the right and was at the second level before he needed to block somebody. The RB had a wide open freeway to run through and was not touched for I don't know how many yards. I forget, but something like 10 yards.
It was a play I saw a video of and the writeup said it happened more than once.
That is scheme. But, again, I don't know how often a poor scheme was the issue.
Savage, Alexander and King will be one year wiser, one year more experienced in Pettine's defense, and years 2-3 is usually when the game slows down for them.
That only helps angry bald man and along with it, his D
From Dougherty's chat about Martinez's comments:
Early last season an offensive line coach for another team told me that a weakness in the Rex Ryan/Pettine scheme is that it's not gap conscious against the run, so it can be run on. The defense is more concerned with being disruptive on the DL and getting to the QB, and it just doesn't emphasize gap assignments like other defenses (the coach cited Pete Carroll as being maybe the best at teaching gap responsibilities). So Martinez's comments yesterday in effect confirmed. Playing that way has advantages for stopping the passing game but as we saw can be a big problem if a team runs the ball well. Agreed they have to change that approach or we'll see the same thing against teams such as the 49ers this season.
After getting shit canned in Cleveland Pettine observed/consulted with Carroll and his defense. I'm curious if we'll see the defense evolve more especially after the NFCC run game beatdown.
Like most defenses today, they are schemed for stopping the pass. Teams that can RTFFB break that down. The antidote is to score early and often. See if Lafleur year 2 (in 2021) makes a difference.
Good podcast from Bukowski yesterday about the comments from Blartinez. Basically he states Packers don't value ILB in this scheme as much as other positionsons and all they really need from someone at ILB is someone to clean up the holes in the middle...something Blartinez wasn't able to do very well. Today's pod be goes into the fact a big, fast safety that can cover from that ILB spot may be a bigger need.
IMO Blartinez would have been a better fit if they had someone better than Lowery or Lancaster in front of him.
Not 100% sold on Pettine ... BUT ... to be fair you can't judge a defensive scheme until it plays with a full set of pieces. Packer defense lost it's best hybrid LB (Greene) early in the season and the LB2(Burks) was colossally bad. Failure of Montravious gave Lancaster and Lowry too many snaps. (Keke take next step??). Blark just doesn't have the skill to cover or fill at a high level.
Fixable.
I think the idea of “clean up” is misconstrued to mean that the ILB just handles anything the OLB’s miss. I don’t think that’s the case at all. It means ILBs are free to attack the ball and aren’t relegated to gap containment. Carroll’s scheme flows everything to the Safeties, which is why Chancellor and Thomas were the key cogs in that defense. When they went out things were less cohesive. Pettine’s scheme relies heavily on his DL/OLBs to disrupt the timing of the play and force the ball where they want it to go. Ideally they were forcing everything TO Martinez, which is why he has had such inflated tackle numbers. The problem, and this was magnified in SF, is that our DL couldn’t maintain integrity and the misdirection really confused Martinez making him a step slow. In NY, Pettine had two high football IQ players in Bart Scott and David Harris. Those guys were always where they needed to be...and Pettine was free to play cover 2 a higher % of time with 2 FS instead of relying on a box Safety and playing Cover 1. I have high hopes for a healthy Kirksey and potentially guys like Murray or Queen or even Harrison after R1. If you listen to Martinez’s actual quote, it’s not as critical as reporter summaries made it seem. I think he just meant he’s a better fit in a different scheme.
I'm not convinced we go LB in R1 mainly because I think they can address the need in round 2 or 3 with a hybrid S/LB. RT and WR are pretty big needs and I think the drop off between the R1 and R2 guys and everyone else is steep.
I believe we can get long-term starters at RT and WR with our first two picks.
Is that guy out there though? I would prioritize RT over ILB but even one sideline to sideline guy would be a huge help.
Grant Delpit from Bama
Jeremy Chinn from Southern Illinois (don't laugh, dude can ball)
Akeem Davis-Gaither from Appalachian State
All 3 would be physical/speed upgrades to Raven Greene
Delpit and Chinn likely can be gotten in the top of round 2 if Packers can trade down. Davis-Gaither is slipping because he had a stress fracture that required surgery so he won't be able to show anything post-surgery before the draft.
I think Rex Ryan was a great defensive mind. When he was DC at Baltimore and HC with the Jets they had top level defenses - and guess what, they were strong against the run too except for a few outliers, so not sure what that OL coach meant. Maybe more directed at Pettine after he separated from Rex ??
I've said it before, I think Rex was the mastermind and Pettine was his lacky. Has Pettine been successful on his own ? Bottom half defenses in Cleveland and GB.
No doubt Rex was a risk taker, maybe they were able to overcome the lack of gap discipline with back end scheme and/or talent at LB and DB positions.
Don't mean to be too critical of Pettine. Still have high hopes for the "D" and think we are only a few pieces away from having a complete defense. There were some really good signs last season.