@H5 posted:Making an early run at the DSOBOTB title?
Titles can only change hands upon death...
X4 Bylaws, Article 12, Section 7
So you're saying there's a chance.
@Pikes Peak posted:Is there a trophy for that?
Yeppers. Same one the Vikings have.
My humble opinions.
Trade Alexander
The good thing is he's still relatively young and some team will give up a lot for him, hoping he's over his injuries. We've been hoping that for two years. Yes, he's elite, but he's a half-time player. You can't assume he's going to be over his injuries, you have to assume he's not. Too much money to pay for someone who's rarely available.
Try to keep Josh Meyers
He's an UFA, and he's been serviceable to good, Love trusts him, but he's kind of a c+ player. If he doesn't accept a reasonable deal, let him go.
Try to Keep Isaiah McDuffie
Good veteran depth. Make a reasonable offer, if he doesn't accept, bye bye.
Pay Eric Stokes
He's our best reliable corner right now, and a vet. He's not going to command much, so he can be had for a reasonable rate. He showed a ton of promise his rookie year, maybe he can progress next year.
Pay Eric Wilson
Very competent veteran depth. Not a superstar, so he shouldn't cost much.
Try to Keep TJ Slaton
Good veteran depth, shows up in spurts. If he wants more than a reasonable offer, let him go. He's not going to get any better at this point.
Pay Brandon McManus
No brainer.
Try to Keep Quay Walker
Almost every linebacker on the Packers is better than him, but he's a decent vet. Fast as hell, but too dumb to make much of an impact.
Try to Keep Corey Ballentine
Decent veteran depth. If he doesn't take a reasonable offer, let him go.
Let Andre Dillard Go
Andre who?
Try to Keep Robert Rochelle
Good ST player, depth at corner. If he doesn't take a fair deal, let him go.
Let AJ Dillon Go
Good guy, just not the power back we thought he would be, and the RB room is too crowded with better runners.
Let Tyler Davis Go
Never did much.
Whether through draft or free agency, WR and CB are the top two priorities. Then pass rusher. If I were Gutey, I'd look to free agency for all three of those positions first. Especially for CB and DE. Gutey sucks at drafting defense.
Fill in depth through the draft.
Agree with most of that, other than Stokes. He did play better when we were playing mostly zone, but Valentine and Nixon are better in man coverage. I think that Gute is going to make a real effort to get top FAs at WR and Edge rusher. My "best case scenario" would be Mack & Davante ..... think of what they would add!
That reads like every other teams fans list. "If he comes cheap. If he comes reasonable" They almost never do.
Viking fans. " Re-sign Darnold if he comes cheap" Yeah Right!
"Whether through draft or free agency, WR and CB are the top two priorities. Then pass rusher. If I were Gutey, I'd look to free agency for all three of those positions first. Especially for CB and DE. Gutey sucks at drafting defense."
I think Pass Rusher is a top priority for the Packers. Yes, we also need a speedy WR and a CB. Another LB would be good, too. We need to look at finding Kenny Clark's replacement, at some point. In the meantime whatever DL guy we get, can spell Slaton, as well. Take the best ones available, of these, in the Draft and try to find solid players in FA, to add depth.
@FLPACKER posted:Agree with most of that, other than Stokes. He did play better when we were playing mostly zone, but Valentine and Nixon are better in man coverage. I think that Gute is going to make a real effort to get top FAs at WR and Edge rusher. My "best case scenario" would be Mack & Davante ..... think of what they would add!
How much does Mack have left at 33? Looks like outside a big year in 23 he's been a single digit sack guy for a while. I know sacks don't tell the whole story but of the couple games I watched LAC, he didn't seem to be that disruptive.
Anyone else watch him this year?
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Get a few of these old guys and pick one of the following ( fact, excuse, get out of jail free card ) of being the youngest team in the league goes out the window.
Then again being old and slow could take its place
@mrtundra posted:"Whether through draft or free agency, WR and CB are the top two priorities. Then pass rusher. If I were Gutey, I'd look to free agency for all three of those positions first. Especially for CB and DE. Gutey sucks at drafting defense."
I think Pass Rusher is a top priority for the Packers. Yes, we also need a speedy WR and a CB. Another LB would be good, too. We need to look at finding Kenny Clark's replacement, at some point. In the meantime whatever DL guy we get, can spell Slaton, as well. Take the best ones available, of these, in the Draft and try to find solid players in FA, to add depth.
100 percent agree on pass rush. Anyone watching the playoffs so far can see how much an effective rush and pressure on a QB can alter a game. Watch tape and see how Darnold and Goff performed under pressure. The Giants front 7 got them two Super Bowls despite having an otherwise average team.
@Harry Manback posted:My humble opinions.
Trade Alexander
You don't trade good players at the bottom of their value, especially at positions of weakness, unless you have no other choice, and if they're in that position, it should be after June 1st. His trade value is close to nil as ever right now as only the Packers know his medical situation.
Try to keep Josh Meyers
That's probably fine.
Try to Keep Isaiah McDuffie
He's JAG through-and-through, cheap or get out.
Pay Eric Stokes
No, just no. He's Kevin King with worse man coverage skills. Let some zone team pay for his potential going forward.
Try to Keep TJ Slaton
He's their only true "hog" so yeah.
Pay Brandon McManus
Yep.
Try to Keep Quay Walker
They don't need to try, he's under contract for at least one more year, with a fifth-year option if they want it.
Try to Keep Corey Ballentine
Meh. Time to up the quality at the position. Rochelle is a better special teams guy and probably even cheaper.
Let Andre Dillard Go
Not exactly a controversial take. He's was a reclamation flier pick up.
Try to Keep Robert Rochelle
Cheap and special teams, hopefully doesn't see actual time at corner in meaningful games.
Let AJ Dillon Go
He'll likely be a minimum "prove it" contract, so he could be a camp body, at worst.
Let Tyler Davis Go
See: Dillon
@RochNyFan posted:100 percent agree on pass rush. Anyone watching the playoffs so far can see how much an effective rush and pressure on a QB can alter a game. Watch tape and see how Darnold and Goff performed under pressure. The Giants front 7 got them two Super Bowls despite having an otherwise average team.
The question is will Gutekunst break tendency and go after a guy with real bend and burst even if he's smaller? Cooper seems his concession by having an off-ball linebacker who can also rush from the edge.
On the plus-side, their are a number of candidates this year that could probably do both:
James Pierce from TN, Jalon Walker from GA, Jihaad Campbell from Alabama, David Bailey from Stanford, Josiah Stewart from Michigan and maybe even Smael Mondon from Georgia or Jeffrey Bassa from Oregon.
I read thiis entire thread and agree w/ much that was written. I also listened to the clip of Silverstein and Wood and felt they had a few good points as well; The change from Jones to Jacobs was a bigger deal than we realized. Teams played GB differently- just look at how much more dynamics the Vikes were when 33 played. I don't advocate that Jacobs should not have been signed but I agree w/ Silverstein that GB couldn't see how lining up in the I and running the tackle box damaged their former passing game. Jacobs is not a nifty route runner and his elusiveness factor was not enough to force teams to respect him in the pass game. Maybe Lloyd would have fixed that but we'll never know.
The lack of a dependable receiver also really hurt- it has always baffled me how the fundamental aspect of being a receiver is catching the ball can be so problematic. Silversteins comment about discipline rang true here.
The FA shopping trip that we all are anxiously waiting on comes w/a cautionary note- Remember the Joe Johnson signing- The stars are aligned headlines on local media and the disturbing reality of an aging vet signing for a big payday in a place he didn't want to be - give me pause. Do I fantasize about Maxx Crosby (not a FA but trade speculation has been high) and do I absolutley believe he would be a balls to the wall type of guy- but it aint gonna happen and so I'm hoping in FA to find a scheme fit talent that will improve the roster. Could be anybody and if your roster is solid- the scrap heap Desmond Howard had as much to do w/ that 96 Superbowl title as Reggie White.
So I guess long story short for me I am hoping a very introspective LaFluer figures out how to incorporate Jacobs into the forermly deep strike offense and its previous production levels or get a dynamic running mate for Jacobs- figure out the second TE, 8 deep Oline and switch to a power running attack.
After reading all the above, it seems that for a team that most of us thought was pretty good and played teams we thought were pretty good to a standstill needs a lot.
Green and Gold glasses may need to be replaced with clear lenses.
@DH13 posted:How much does Mack have left at 33? Looks like outside a big year in 23 he's been a single digit sack guy for a while. I know sacks don't tell the whole story but of the couple games I watched LAC, he didn't seem to be that disruptive.
Anyone else watch him this year?
I know that PFF isn't everything , but they had him as their 5th highest rated edge player in the entire league this year.
@Harry Manback posted:My humble opinions.
Trade Alexander
His trade value is pretty much garbage right now. At best, it's like a 6th that maybe turns to a 5th. However, his cap number gets worse in 2026 then dumping him now. So I wouldn't rule it out, especially if he's not on board with being a Packer in 2025 or they feel he is a locker room cancer here.
Try to keep Josh Meyers
They will likely low ball offer him, they are not paying big money for him and they should not. He's an average C and if the goal is to win a SB, you don't keep mediocre for a starter.
Try to Keep Isaiah McDuffie
Again, not an ideal player for playing as many snaps as he did. Upgrade.
Pay Eric Stokes
He's not the best CB on this team, that's Valentine. Then Nixon. See Josh Myers. The goal, the "urgency" per Gute is to win championships NOW. This is a deep draft for CB's and the Packers have money in FA. They need a significant rehaul at this position the same way Gute re-made the TE rom.
Pay Eric Wilson
Agree.
Try to Keep TJ Slaton
Agree
Pay Brandon McManus
Agree.
Try to Keep Quay Walker
There is not enough there to pick up his 5th year option, I hope Gute learned this lesson when he overpaid Savage. For the love of God, do not do it again.
Try to Keep Corey Ballentine
Agree.
Let Andre Dillard Go
Agree.
Try to Keep Robert Rochelle
Good ST player, depth at corner. If he doesn't take a fair deal, let him go.
Let AJ Dillon Go
Agree.
Let Tyler Davis Go
Agree.
The thing to remember is Gute wants to compete for a SB now. You don't maintain the course by keeping Josh Myers, Eric Stokes, McDuffie, etc if that's the goal. You know who they are and where their ceilings are.
Move on. Upgrade. Spend some decent cash in FA. And remake/retool positions like CB however you can.
@packerboi posted:The thing to remember is Gute wants to compete for a SB now. You don't maintain the course by keeping Josh Myers, Eric Stokes, McDuffie, etc if that's the goal. You know who they are and where their ceilings are.
Move on. Upgrade. Spend some decent cash in FA. And remake/retool positions like CB however you can.
While I agree with you mostly, Myers I think makes sense to bring back. You're not going to draft or sign a C that completely changes your OL. Myers is solid...not great, but solid.
The only option I see them doing is moving either Tom or Jenkins to C if they don't re-sign Myers. But maybe that's been the plan all along.
Everyone else they should upgrade.
2025 will be the year to be unburdened by what has been
@Chongo posted:While I agree with you mostly, Myers I think makes sense to bring back. You're not going to draft or sign a C that completely changes your OL. Myers is solid...not great, but solid.
The only option I see them doing is moving either Tom or Jenkins to C if they don't re-sign Myers. But maybe that's been the plan all along.
Everyone else they should upgrade.
I fully get PFF is not the be all and end all for reflecting how good/bad a player truly is but for grades for Myers:
Overall Grade: 55.3. Which is good for 49th out of 64 and is considered below average.
Pass blocking grade: 63.4. That is 37th out of 64. above average and isn't bad, but hardly considered good or elite.
Run blocking grade: 52.2. That's 54th out of 64. That is considered poor. Especially relevant for a team that wants to run the ball with Jacobs/Lloyd in 25
When I watch former OL players like Mike Wahle do their 22 film review, there's just not much to be impressed with Myers according to him and also Bulaga who know far more than I ever will.
Now, that's not to say Myers isn't a great locker room presence and MLF has praised him for his recognition of defensive schemes and getting guys lined up correctly. A rookie is unlikely to do that so I do get it from that standpoint the desire to keep him.
I just hope if Gute is going to offer him a 2nd contract that it is representative of his play. Which means you aren't offering him more than middle of the road deal with not much guaranteed.
Another thing to like about Mack & Adams is that they wouldn't be seeking long term contracts. Sign them for 2 years and develop guys behind them. I like this approach better than developing all of the guys at the same time. Adams would instantly be the number 1 WR and Mack the number one edge.
I think Mack would be a very situational, part-time pass rusher similar to Von Miller is with the Bills. A dude who you save for very specific plays in hopes of keeping him fresh, especially come playoff time.
What's interesting is Mack's teammate, Joey Bosa, may very well be a cap causality for the Chargers. He's due 25mil and it's highly unlikely they will pay that.
He's had trouble staying healthy but for the right price, Gute might take a flyer. Bosa's still just 29
@packerboi posted:I just hope if Gute is going to offer him a 2nd contract that it is representative of his play. Which means you aren't offering him more than middle of the road deal with not much guaranteed.
Fair...but I don't think Gutey reads PFF
I get what you're saying...not a huge fan of Myers myself, but I don't think he's as horrendous as PFF says he is. He's not an elite C, but I don't think he will be paid as such. Gutey and Ballz will set a price max and won't go over that.
And maybe they think he's dog shit and won't re-sign him. Just saying, don't be surprised if they do.
Canât fix every need in one year. They may think are bigger needs than center.
I would agree.
@Chongo posted:Fair...but I don't think Gutey reads PFF
I get what you're saying...not a huge fan of Myers myself, but I don't think he's as horrendous as PFF says he is. He's not an elite C, but I don't think he will be paid as such. Gutey and Ballz will set a price max and won't go over that.
And maybe they think he's dog shit and won't re-sign him. Just saying, don't be surprised if they do.
He's not bad enough to be the reason you lose games (look at what happened at tackle after Jenkins got hurt against the Eagles), but he's also not good enough to be a big reason you win games.
Like you said, if he comes back for a reasonable salary that's fine. He's never going to be a Pro Bowler, but his familiarity with Love and the blocking schemes probably makes him worth more to GB than anyone else.
I'm guessing someone will outbid the Packers though and that's fine.
So none of this is good news for Monk?
@Herschel posted:The question is will Gutekunst break tendency and go after a guy with real bend and burst even if he's smaller? Cooper seems his concession by having an off-ball linebacker who can also rush from the edge.
On the plus-side, their are a number of candidates this year that could probably do both:
James Pierce from TN, Jalon Walker from GA, Jihaad Campbell from Alabama, David Bailey from Stanford, Josiah Stewart from Michigan and maybe even Smael Mondon from Georgia or Jeffrey Bassa from Oregon.
I am hoping for a proven commodity via Free Agency or trade. Too many misses on the defensive side of the ball in the draft to trust Gute and his staff.
@Chongo posted:While I agree with you mostly, Myers I think makes sense to bring back. You're not going to draft or sign a C that completely changes your OL. Myers is solid...not great, but solid.
The only option I see them doing is moving either Tom or Jenkins to C if they don't re-sign Myers. But maybe that's been the plan all along.
Everyone else they should upgrade.
Myers looks the part and has the physical tools, something is just missing from his game. Just call him Joshie "Bag-a-donut holes".
@RochNyFan posted:Myers looks the part and has the physical tools, something is just missing from his game. Just call him Joshie "Bag-a-donut holes".
Myers = John Ruynan Jr of 2025. I think the Packers make an offer, Myers gets a better one with more guaranteed $$, and they part ways.
Walker-Jenkins-Rhyan-Morgan-Tom could be a very possible starting OL next year
@packerboi posted:Myers = John Ruynan Jr of 2025. I think the Packers make an offer, Myers gets a better one with more guaranteed $$, and they part ways.
Walker-Jenkins-Rhyan-Morgan-Tom could be a very possible starting OL next year
at this point, we know what we have with Josh and what we have is nothing special. time to move on and give Rhyan a chance. did a fine job there in the preseason.
Rhyan is two years younger and has had high-end plays, which can indicate a realistic developmental path.
It's been quite the journey, but Rhyan finally had the opportunity to put everything on display during Saturday's preseason opener in Cleveland, where he started at right guard, slid to center and moved back to right guard during a 45-snap outing in a 23-10 win over the Browns. https://x.com/BCarwile_NFL/status/1823062820881125458
Here is PFF rankings for our players by position;
Love 20 of 44
Jacobs 3 of 58
Reed 49 of 133
Doubs 56 of 133
Watson 59 of 133
Wicks 73 of 133
Melton 86 of 133
Kraft 23 of 75
Myers 36 of 40
Jenkins 31 of 75
Ryhan 47 of 75
Tom 5 of 81
Walker 41 of 81
Wyatt 37 of 126
Brooks 48 of 126
Clark 55 of 126
Wooden 95 of 126
Slaton 114 of 126
Gary 28 of 119
Enagbare 89 of 119
Van Ness 103 of 119
Cooper 4 of 82
Wilson 43 of 82
Walker 62 of 82
McDuffie 70 of 82
Alexander 15 of 118
Valentine 55 of 118
Nixon 63 of 118
Stokes 73 of 118
McKinney 4 of 98
Williams 23 of 98
Bullard 81 of 98
@DH13 posted:Not what I saw in the limited amount of games I watched. He also plays with Bosa on the other end. He'll be 34 this coming season.
I'd also rather get him still in a 3-4 to save a bit of the wear & tear as he's not the biggest guy.
The guys I'd be cool with taking a shot at are Azeez Ojulari and Paulson Adebo on defense, and maybe Amari Copper (if not Adams) on offense. None are the "top" guys, but the defenders are young, and Adebo is recovering from a broken leg back in week 7, which likely depresses his value.
@FLPACKER posted:Here is PFF rankings for our players by position;
Love 20 of 44
Jacobs 3 of 58
Reed 49 of 133
Doubs 56 of 133
Watson 59 of 133
Wicks 73 of 133
Melton 86 of 133
Kraft 23 of 75
Myers 36 of 40
Jenkins 31 of 75
Ryhan 47 of 75
Tom 5 of 81
Walker 41 of 81
Wyatt 37 of 126
Brooks 48 of 126
Clark 55 of 126
Wooden 95 of 126
Slaton 114 of 126
Gary 28 of 119
Enagbare 89 of 119
Van Ness 103 of 119
Cooper 4 of 82
Wilson 43 of 82
Walker 62 of 82
McDuffie 70 of 82
Alexander 15 of 118
Valentine 55 of 118
Nixon 63 of 118
Stokes 73 of 118
McKinney 4 of 98
Williams 23 of 98
Bullard 81 of 98
That's pretty bleak. Bolded are the guy who graded as a 'quality starter' (top 15 QB or TE/32 other). Eight guys, nine if you want to squeeze 2TE sets as a standard.
Reed, their top receiver, ranks as an average #2.
I really think it is right along the lines of the general consensus on our players here. Maybe the only one I would question is Slaton being as low as he was. I think Kraft could rise if given more opportunities . If Love played at a top 10 level and we got a top 10 WR, our offense would be very difficult to stop.
@Herschel posted:I'd also rather get him still in a 3-4 to save a bit of the wear & tear as he's not the biggest guy.
The guys I'd be cool with taking a shot at are Azeez Ojulari and Paulson Adebo on defense, and maybe Amari Copper (if not Adams) on offense. None are the "top" guys, but the defenders are young, and Adebo is recovering from a broken leg back in week 7, which likely depresses his value.
At this point Cooper isn't any better than the guys we have.
@FLPACKER posted:Here is PFF rankings for our players by position;
Love 20 of 44
Jacobs 3 of 58
Reed 49 of 133
Doubs 56 of 133
Watson 59 of 133
Wicks 73 of 133
Melton 86 of 133
Kraft 23 of 75
Myers 36 of 40
Jenkins 31 of 75
Ryhan 47 of 75
Tom 5 of 81
Walker 41 of 81
Wyatt 37 of 126
Brooks 48 of 126
Clark 55 of 126
Wooden 95 of 126
Slaton 114 of 126
Gary 28 of 119
Enagbare 89 of 119
Van Ness 103 of 119
Cooper 4 of 82
Wilson 43 of 82
Walker 62 of 82
McDuffie 70 of 82
Alexander 15 of 118
Valentine 55 of 118
Nixon 63 of 118
Stokes 73 of 118
McKinney 4 of 98
Williams 23 of 98
Bullard 81 of 98
Based on that MLF should be coach of the year and Harley should be the top candidate for every job out there.
@FLPACKER posted:I really think it is right along the lines of the general consensus on our players here. Maybe the only one I would question is Slaton being as low as he was. I think Kraft could rise if given more opportunities . If Love played at a top 10 level and we got a top 10 WR, our offense would be very difficult to stop.
Their OL needs to be better. It's average.
Could use the Notre Dame OL
@MichiganPacker2 posted:Based on that MLF should be coach of the year and Harley should be the top candidate for every job out there.
Any team that wants to take Coach Harley off the Packers' hands is welcome to do so. 