@GreenBayLA posted+ My wife is from Cincy so Go Bengals!!
Same here.
Rodgers career fell far short of what could have been. But Rodgers needed a coach like Holmgren, Belichick, or Parcells to hold him accountable.
Rodgers has zero, nada, no respect for Lafleur. And when other players see that Lafleur will cave, you end up with an undisciplined, unmotivated, half-ass effort (See Savage) team like this. It's no secret who runs the organization, but they allowed it and Rodgers narcissistic personality jumped all over it.
This organization is weak and the players know it. That starts with Murphy and ends with Lafleur and his staff.
@antiworst posted:Rodgers career fell far short of what could have been. But Rodgers needed a coach like Holmgren, Belichick, or Parcells to hold him accountable.
But how much of that was truly Rodgers' fault, and how much of that was the team's fault? Or more specifically, the defense's?
Before our loss against the 49ers in January, our opponents had scored 322 points in nine playoff losses with Rodgers under center, an average of 36 (35.8) points per game. I don't know too many quarterbacks who would have thrived in those circumstances.
Meanwhile, everyone is hanging from Tom Brady's nuts, calling him "the GOAT". Well, in Tom Brady's first nine playoff games, all wins, the Patriots defense surrendered a total of 155 points. 17 points a game. And in his 12 playoff losses, Brady's opponents scored 27.4 PPG, or 8.4 fewer points per loss.
Big difference.
For me the two biggest factors in the loss were;
1) The Jones Fumble. Without it we are up either 16 or 12 to 3 at the half instead of 9-3
2) Lions o-line wore down our d front in the second half and our o-line couldn't do the same to their d-front.
+ this miserable season is over. Finally.
- we still have MM, MLF, Barry and a QB that have gotten tired and stale and what do you know? 8-9. Yippee. No playoffs and mediocre draft positioning. Sounds about right for this team.
Perhaps the Packers can take a cue from UW football and make some bold moves and changes. This franchise has gotten way too comfortable just being OK to good. If you truly want to be great things have to change.
The good news is now we get to sit around for the next 2 months and listen to 12 and all of his hemming and hawing philosophical bullshit yet again. However, MLF can warm things up with his Pollyanna coach speak defending Barry and dumb decisions - including his own. Where’s the Bart Scott “can’t wait” sound bite.
Negatives:
The season was basically lost when they went in with this receiving corps. They gave up a lot of resources for a rookie swing for the fences, then followed him up with two less-talented versions of the same thing. They didn't bring in a reliable, sure-handed possession receiver that can win on tough routes in a short area. In other words, they didn't have a guy who they could count on when they needed a big reception. Cobb and Lazard are okay sidekicks, but neither offers the reliability needed.
They also screwed up by not having pass rushing depth. Gary went down and they were lucky Hollins became available and they were still lacking in juice. If you're going to play soft zone, you'd better have a fearsome pass rush.
And soft zone, ugh! They have defensive backs suited for man coverage and a mediocre pass rush, as well as an offense not built to score a lot of points, but sure, let's play a prevent-style defense designed to play with a lead and limit big pass plays if guys are actually in position. Joe Barry is a can. On the occasions he actually was consistently aggressive, the defense looked like we all hoped they would, but a few games last year and maybe a couple this year weren't enough to get it through their heads.
@Fandame posted:After this game, I wouldn't blame Love for asking for a trade if they aren't going to play him. Unfortunately, the FO would most likely oblige him rather than get rid of a guy who's sliding downhill fast.
They may as well name that thing the Honorary Aaron Rodgers Sledding Hill.
@MaximusHess posted:Last play of the season sums up this defense playcalling, 4th and 2 , play 8 yards off, genius!
No kidding. My old fat washed up ass could have waddled the 6 feet needed to make the first down if they gave me 8 yards.
Positives: We got to see meaningful football and they did show some fight to get that far.
I think this draft class if they stay healthy is going to go down as a very good one
Negatives: Freaking defense can't get off the field
Freaking defensive schemes
I think Aaron Jones is a great back but man he has a habit of fumbling in huge spots
Its sad but I am getting used to this team choking in big spots
I’m not sure of Murphy’s “retirement plan” but the first call I make is to John Schneider in Seattle and start paving the way for him to come on board and replace MM. While he may not have the same level of business saavy as Murphy, he’s 10x the football guy and isn’t afraid to make the tough decisions. It seems like this FO is far too interested in the status quo and is more interested in winning PR games than winning football games.
The next call I probably make is to Jim Leonhard for DC. Would he have a change of mind? What would it take to change his mind?
Finally, I get Rodgers in a room and ask him what he wants to do. If he wants to stay, then he has to truly commit to being all in this offseason and he may need to rework his contract so they can add another pass rusher or weapon on offense. If he isn’t sure or clear, then you figure out a way to deal him.
@lambeausouth posted:But how much of that was truly Rodgers' fault, and how much of that was the team's fault? Or more specifically, the defense's?
Before our loss against the 49ers in January, our opponents had scored 322 points in nine playoff losses with Rodgers under center, an average of 36 (35.8) points per game. I don't know too many quarterbacks who would have thrived in those circumstances.
Meanwhile, everyone is hanging from Tom Brady's nuts, calling him "the GOAT". Well, in Tom Brady's first nine playoff games, all wins, the Patriots defense surrendered a total of 155 points. 17 points a game. And in his 12 playoff losses, Brady's opponents scored 27.4 PPG, or 8.4 fewer points per loss.Big difference.
Whenever I hear its all Rodgers fault I like throwing this one out at them. And even if they don't give up that many points the defense brain farts eventually for instance with King gave up that easy TD against SF.
Packers gambled 3 times with 12.
Fitst time when they jettisoned Favre and turned the reigns over. Came up aces.
Second time when they drafted Love and thought his best days behind him. Got burned, back to back MVP.
Tird time, gave huge extension after said MVP seasons, looking like they will get burned again.
@EC Pack posted:Packers gambled 3 times with 12.
Fitst time when they jettisoned Favre and turned the reigns over. Came up aces.
Second time when they drafted Love and thought his best days behind him. Got burned, back to back MVP.
Tird time, gave huge extension after said MVP seasons, looking like they will get burned again.
The Packers’ overwhelming reliance upon and deference to #12 is and has symbolized what is a fundamentally flawed organization … if the goal was truly about taking home a Lombardi Trophy.
Many of the FRONT OFFICE faithful have willfully ignored the reality that it is now going on 13 seasons, all with #12 at QB, since the last SB appearance … as long as the Pack was dominating the pathetic NFC North.
But after finishing 3rd behind the hated Vikes and especially after seeing the younger, hungrier, better coached, and more talented Lions (who have 4 picks in first 2 rounds of the upcoming draft) sweep GB and it’s expensive, declining, and petulant QB and latest failed DC out of the playoffs (in Lambeau no less) to end the 2022 season, I suspect only the dwindling number of diehard apologists will continue to deny the Pack’s deep-seated problems.
+ The sun came up in North Carolina
+ I’m still a fan of the best football franchise ever
+ Fedya still PM’s me after every time I post asking for my autograph.
+ I have an earlier than expected start on the “Get DJ to adore me.” project….either that or simply destroy him.
-Joe Barry still walks this Earth with a job.
@The Heckler posted:Negatives: Freaking defense can't get off the field
Detroit had the ball for 11:30 in 4th quarter. The early screw-ups came back to bite them when our defense got tired/abused.
@Cheezers posted:Detroit had the ball for 11:30 in 4th quarter. The early screw-ups came back to bite them when our defense got tired/abused.
Yup, some first downs by the O would help the D.
+ team did not get ripped apart 6 games ago. found a KR, found some good players in the draft and FA. we did not get boat raced in the playoffs again. top 15 pick...
- not sure where to go with AR, not sure the direction with the coaches either...so the general sense of this train is confused right now. not even sure if mlf is the answer here.
+ beat the bears twice, the second bear game was a great comeback
+beat the pats, cowboys, bucs, vikings in Lambeau and had a nice string to make week 17 meaningful
+great draft class
-hanging on to Rodgers was the equivalent of the Hadl trade
-the Packers are average--Rodgers was the main reason 2020 and 2021 were such successful seasons and the main reason 2022 was just below average--watching him throw that absurd interception on the final drive with Tonyan standing wide open as a safety valve with the all out blitz was so much like Favre's last pass--his frequently bad decisions this year had little to do with his thumb issues. ....and the negative here is Rodgers most likely will comeback. He is about 3,000 yards behind Favre's all time yards mark and this most definitely is in Rodgers motivation. He wants that record. Another season of Rodgers will be no fun...maybe we'll beat the bears twice......wooopee.
-the seasons are too long. 17 games is ridiculous-especially for player safety-14 games would be plenty
-and the lions game--I'm not in love with Barry, but the last 5 games the defense has been good. The Packers offense turned the ball over twice and handed the Lions a field goal with the 4th down failure. The defense wore down in the 4th quarter but they were given little help throughout. I hope Jim Leonhard is coming, but I don't think a new DC will make an extraordinary difference.
in listening to various local talking heads, JL is from the rex ryan tree, so there may be quicker decisions and some small changes, but I wouldn't expect a giant overhaul...
"I’m not sure of Murphy’s “retirement plan” but the first call I make is to John Schneider in Seattle and start paving the way for him to come on board and replace MM. While he may not have the same level of business saavy as Murphy, he’s 10x the football guy and isn’t afraid to make the tough decisions. "
He made the trade the Packers wouldn't and now Seattle is in the playoffs and holding the #3 pick. They moved on from their franchise QB and are in a position to draft their next franchise QB. That could have been the Packers, Denver wanted Rodgers over Wilson. I wanted the Packers to trade Rodgers so badly last offseason and that's without anticipating his dropoff.
see, the problem is nobody is calling it a dropoff, everyone is saying its injury and just new WR's and....and... so I look and see clear as day, he is not the same guy...I love what the guy did for the team for 10+ years...think on that for a min, but it is time. if his contract is basically dissolved (nobody knows) if he retires, that is the way, he can't be traded unless they rip the thing up and restart, which is why they did it initially, so he can retire a packer...so...retire a packer.
@Johnson posted:+ beat the bears twice, the second bear game was a great comeback
+beat the pats, cowboys, bucs, vikings in Lambeau and had a nice string to make week 17 meaningful
This was my attitude back at 5-8, hoping they'd beat MIN at home. The team seemed to clearly be missing a few cylinders and it was what it was. I was almost at a point of looking forward to a top 10 draft spot. I had made peace. Thanks for yanking the chain, GBP!
I think we all knew at a certain point this team wasn't going anywhere. The fact that they barely stayed in contention for a one and done playoff spot cost them the opportunity to get Love some PT and hurt their draft position. Someone said they have the worst draft position of a non playoff team. If true, that sums up the season quite accurately.
@pkr_north posted:see, the problem is nobody is calling it a dropoff, everyone is saying its injury and just new WR's and....and... so I look and see clear as day, he is not the same guy...I love what the guy did for the team for 10+ years...think on that for a min, but it is time. if his contract is basically dissolved (nobody knows) if he retires, that is the way, he can't be traded unless they rip the thing up and restart, which is why they did it initially, so he can retire a packer...so...retire a packer.
I think the only folks who are unwilling to admit there has been a DROPOFF in Rodgers‘ play after a season in which he failed to register a single 300 yard passing day are (1) #12 himself, (2) the remaining members of the Rodgers can do no wrong club, and (3) those responsible for giving him that ridiculous contract extension last offseason.
@EC Pack posted:Packers gambled 3 times with 12.
Second time when they drafted Love and thought his best days behind him. Got burned, back to back MVP.
How is that getting burned? They got two seasons of MVP QB play partly because they drafted love. That decision started the “I’ll show them” fire that 12 is famous for.
I think he meant burning the draft capital on a QB that they planned on playing sooner rather than later, and then not playing him really at all. Could call that a draw.
Independent of all the other stuff, I want to see the Packers do something this week to discipline Quay Walker.
It was second and 8 from the nine-yard line. That situation looks like a FG to tie the game. Who shoves a trainer? It wasn't like he thought a Lions player shoved him from behind and he reacted without knowing who it was. He was staring right at him. Instead, it's first and goal from the 4. And it sucked the energy out of the team.
It's the second time he's shoved a guy out of uniform this year. Once is a learning experience. Twice is showing what he really is. A 240 pound fake tough guy.
Whatever the maximal allowable fine is, that's what it should be. And I'd seriously consider trading him. He's the type of player that will get you beat again by doing something stupid down the road.
I'm sure MLF gave his a firm tongue-lashing like he did Rasul after the PF at the end of the 1H.
"SUL!!! SUL!!! PLAY SMART!!!"
Effective!
As Packers fans, we have gotten spoiled by elite QB play. Rodgers set the bar so damn high it’s nearly impossible to have an objective take on how good he is or may still be.
The guy was clearly not healthy for probably half of the year, yet still had a 2 to 1 TD ratio and completed 65% of his passes. His numbers are comparable to Herbert and you could make a case the only guys (now) that are clearly better than him are Mahomes, Allen, and Burrow.
Geno Smith, Jared Goff, and Kirk Cousins probably had better years but do you trust any of those three more than Rodgers even at 39? I don’t.
Look, I’ve been as critical of the guy as anyone but this idea that he’s washed up is utterly ridiculous. There are a number of teams today that would take him as their starting QB.
The Packers were charged with 4 dropped passes vs. Lions by @ESPNStatsInfo (Doubs 2, Lazard, Dillon) to finish w/32 for the season. Only 2 teams had more. That’s more than double what they had last season (15) and their most since 2012 (36).
— Rob Demovsky (@RobDemovsky) January 9, 2023
Here are the snap counts from Sunday. pic.twitter.com/QscBRwr4p7
rodgers has come up small in january for years
The way Wilson played this season has to raise red flags about giving up much for Rodgers. Couple that with his salary and whoever does trade for Rodgers would be putting their job(s) on the line depending on what they give up as compensation. The Raiders are the one team that might bite but they are Jonesing over Brady, and their HC has a connection.
So Brady might wind up with the Raiders. That opens up a spot in Tampa for Rodgers. He would love it there and the owner would love to have him.
Biggest negative was that there really was no part of the team that was dominant. Statistically, the pass defense was in the top 1/4 of the league, but I think that stat is deceiving. Teams knew they could run against us and chose that method to beat us moreso than through the air.
Maybe the scariest thing about how this season unfolded, they may not have hit rock bottom yet. Rock bottom may still be coming next year or the year after when the salary cap begins to really put the clamps on player personnel acquisition.
Rumblings out of Dallas they will move on from Dak, and a reunion between 12 and McVince is possible. They do have some draft capital to deal.
Looking back, the three biggest (missed) opportunities:
1) MLF and Rodgers not being fully committed to getting the rookies up to speed before the season started - including preseason.
2) Not replacing Amari Rodgers with K Nixon sooner.
3) Not allowing the DBs to play more man coverage.
Honestly if any or all of these things occur it’s likely they win another game or two - at a minimum. Rodgers as a return guy literally cost them 2 games on his own.
@Chongo posted:Rumblings out of Dallas they will move on from Dak, and a reunion between 12 and McVince is possible. They do have some draft capital to deal.
MM is not a lock to be there either. He best win. Didn’t Jerry say earlier in the year that Payton was very interesting?
The thing on Amari/Nixon is that Nixon had never returned K's or P's in his career (???). So I'm pretty sure they weren't ready to put him back there earlier in the year when he was just getting his first exposure to it. Amari was clearly back there too long but nobody knew what they had in Nixon until later in that process.
@fightphoe93 posted:Biggest negative was that there really was no part of the team that was dominant. Statistically, the pass defense was in the top 1/4 of the league, but I think that stat is deceiving. Teams knew they could run against us and chose that method to beat us moreso than through the air.
I think I posted the same sentiment about the offense in various game threads up to the MIA game. They just didn't do anything really well enough that they could lean on when needed.
@pkr_north posted:see, the problem is nobody is calling it a dropoff, everyone is saying its injury and just new WR's and....and... so I look and see clear as day, he is not the same guy...I love what the guy did for the team for 10+ years...think on that for a min, but it is time.
This is statistically the worst season of his career and it's not particularly close. Think of all the other seasons he's had: his first year starting, the horrible o-line issues he used to have (sacks), the last years of MM. This was still his worst. At 39 year old.
Even if you think there's still gas in the tank, I'm not taking that bet on a soon-to-be 40 year old QB who just had his worst season on record.