Dude didn’t throw for 300 yards once this year. He’s a mid tier QB both physically and mentally.
Some of you apparently don't remember the 70s or 80s.
@Goalline posted:Dude didn’t throw for 300 yards once this year. He’s a mid tier QB both physically and mentally.
But a top, top, top tier QB financially and against the cap for 2023 & 2024.
@RochNyFan posted:At least in '72 and '89 they under promised and over delivered. Been the opposite since 2010.
Twenty-five seasons with Favre and Rodgers, 1998-2022, and one SB appearance.
@RochNyFan posted:And a pompous asshole to boot.
As are 99% of starting QBs.
@D J posted:Twenty-five seasons with Favre and Rodgers, 1998-2022, and one SB appearance.
An unprecedented run of underachievement ... if the franchise's goal was winning Super Bowls
@packerboi posted:... Starting Nijman over Tom was also stupid. That's on MLF. Nijman's terrible play you can argue helped cost them this game...
I can't argue the decision to start Yosh, but likely wasn't the best idea in hindsight.
But, to be fair, Tom got his ass whipped all night long, too. Buggs and Hutchinson dealt misery to Runyan and Tom.
@Herschel posted:Some of you apparently don't remember the 70s or 80s.
I do, and this year definitively reminded me of that era a lot unfortunately. Especially the early to mid 1980s where they went 8-8 three straight years then hit rock bottom with a couple 4-12 seasons.
I hope that type of thing isn’t coming, but mismanagement of the past 2 or 3 years has the arrow for this franchise pointing downwards. I’d like to think the Pack can rebound quickly but there are a ton of warning signs that it won’t be a quick recovery to competing for Super Bowl Championships.
@Pakrz posted:Not looking for a fight. I'm also not willing to believe a narrative because it's been stated over and over and over again on a message board full of people that have no knowledge of the situation.
In some cases, if there were strong rumors about a player trade (as an example), but a deal is never reached, specific details are eventually leaked.
I thought this was what you were basically trying to say in your original post.
No matter how reliable a source ("insider") may be, "a ton of picks" and that was coming from a "sense of desperation" is Mike Florio-level bullshit.
@Herschel posted:Some of you apparently don't remember the 70s or 80s.
@fightphoe93 posted:I do, and this year definitively reminded me of that era a lot unfortunately. Especially the early to mid 1980s where they went 8-8 three straight years then hit rock bottom with a couple 4-12 seasons.
I'll never forget Chris Berman saying the Packers were "the mark of mediocrity" during the highlights show (was it called Prime Time back then?) after another 8-8 finish to a season.
And indeed they were. As 'phoe93 posted above, from '81 to '85 they were 8-8, excepting the strike-shortened '82 season.
Then it went downhill from there... 
Positives:
The 2022 draft class is looking really good. Walker and Watson look like potential all-pros. Wyatt showed flashes of pro bowl talent. And Dobbs and Toms look like really solid starters. And I think Enagbare could be a really solid rotational OLB. And I think Toure and the two OTs aren't busts yet. Could be one of those special drafts.
Aaron Jones is an all-timer. He was the best player on this offense all season. And he seems like an even better person.
Alexander is a top CB. He was hurt most of 2021 so wasn't sure if 2020 was just a flash. Well 2022 proved he's one of the best pure cover corners in the NFL. He talks but he backs it up.
Negatives
Rodgers. Maybe its age, maybe he's just not as into football anymore but he just wasn't the same QB as the last 2 years. Bigger negative was Gute giving him that contract last offseason.
The defense. What happened? Is Barry that bad? This defense is just way too stacked not to be one of the best units in football. With the OL in flux and the WRs being so young, the defense had to carry this team. They didn't.
The future. It's time to move on to the next era of Packers football. Rodgers is 39 and he was undoubtedly worse QB than the last 2 yeas. 39 year old QBs don't usually get better so have to assume this is the slide into old age. I think it's time to move on but it's going to be ugly.
A thread...
In Brett Favre's final six passes as a Packer:
— PackersHistory.com (@PackersHistory1) January 9, 2023
He went 2-6 for 12 yards, concluding in a game-sealing, season-ending INT at Lambeau Field.
In Aaron Rodgers' final six passes this year:
He went 2-6 for 12 yards, concluding in a game-sealing, season-ending INT at Lambeau Field. pic.twitter.com/JxFlniOG6G
@CUPackFan posted:The defense. What happened? Is Barry that bad? This defense is just way too stacked not to be one of the best units in football. With the OL in flux and the WRs being so young, the defense had to carry this team. They didn't.
Great question. This defense has what 5 or 6 first rounders on it? and they gave pretty high end contracts to guys like Amos and they still can't get it done.
It has to be coaching and scheme to under achieve that badly. The DC comes up with a solid game plan that kept the Vikings (which I applaud him for) in check and then the next week they are charmin soft and can't stop the Lions? granted there was some things like #7s stupidity and a Jones fumble but still they need to get stops and get off the field.
One common theme for the defense is one word SOFT. If you watch good defensive teams they run north south at you and attack. The Packers? they spend most of the game chasing you while not being able to tackle.
Just watch some Niner games. That’s a D that’s on fire. The way we were in the Viking game.
I don’t think wether there was an offer from Denver on the table or not should be the issue. The Packers brain wizards should have been discreetly making inquiries to any and all teams who may have been interested.
Proactive management rather than reactive management is always the way to go.
I doubt Gute wanted his legacy to be the guy that traded the franchise QB and then saw the team get worse the next season. Unfortunately the team got worse and the reason was the dropoff of the guy he should have traded. They had such a golden opportunity to make a Herschel Walker trade that could have strengthened the team for the near future.
I still think there’s a scenario where Rodgers could be dealt for a 1st rounder and maybe a 2nd or 3rd. It’s just that last year it could have been multiple 1s and probably a couple of decent players.
If you are GB, you absolutely need to keep that option on the table albeit the return back won’t be nearly as good as it could have been. 12 can still play, and he’s probably better than at least half the starting QBs out there. He’s just no longer elite.
That being said, he would have a lot of value to the right team looking for either a bridge or a 1-2 year run. The Titans, Jets, Bucs (without Brady), Raiders, Falcons, Panthers, Giants, Redskins, and maybe even the Patriots or Steelers might be in play.
Considering the status quo attitude from MLF yesterday, I don't think this organization has any interest at all in moving AR.
I think that Rodgers wants to retire as a Packer ...it is either play in GB or retire.
I wanna just say right here, I do not care for the comparison to Bert favor and #12. No comparison AT ALL. JMHO. ♥️ 💚 💛
@FLPACKER posted:I think that Rodgers wants to retire as a Packer ...it is either play in GB or retire.
I agree that he wants to retire a Packer…..but if he wants to keep playing and the org says they’re moving on with Love, then all hell will break loose.
It’ll be Bert all over again, and I won’t be surprised if AR ends up with another MVP type season on a different team.
@SteveLuke posted:But a top, top, top tier QB financially and against the cap for 2023 & 2024.
This is what hurts the team the most.
@bdplant posted:I agree that he wants to retire a Packer…..but if he wants to keep playing and the org says they’re moving on with Love, then all hell will break loose.
It’ll be Bert all over again, and I won’t be surprised if AR ends up with another MVP type season on a different team.
If Rodgers has an MVP-type season on another team (and I don't really see that happening), it would have to be a situation something like Brady stepped into with TB or Stafford went to in LA -- a ready-made team with all the pieces in all the places and a heck of an OL. Without those things, you have the current editions of Brady and Stafford. And yes, injuries play a huge part as well.
I'm not ready to write Rodgers off yet. The offense was putrid early in the year because of the young WRs and veteran WRs who scared no one. It was so plodding and difficult to get chunk plays. Rodgers then broke his thumb and continued playing through it, probably to the detriment of the offense, rather than healing up. I'd like to see him one more year, hopefully healthy, with a better group of receivers and TEs than he had this year. Gute completely fucked up there this past off-season. Unfortunately, I think that means a lot of fresh faces, which takes time to get up to speed.
@Goldie posted:I wanna just say right here, I do not care for the comparison to Bert favor and #12. No comparison AT ALL. JMHO. ♥️ 💚 💛
Agree 100%. After the Super Bowl years, there were multiple games every year (and some really obvious playoff games) where the Packers lost because Favre made stupid mistakes to lose the game. The classic 6-interception playoff game against the Rams, throwing interceptions on first down in OT games against the Eagles (4th and 26 game) and the Giants title game.
Outside of the first Lions game this year, I never got the sense that the Packers were losing games because of Rodgers. He just wasn't making superstar-level plays enough to win games this year to justify being a 50 million dollar guy. Even then, there were throws on Sunday when he had time that very few QBs can make (the ball to Doubs that was dropped down the sideline, some throws to Tonyan, some throws to Watson).
The similarity between them is that the front office did not do a good enough job putting a deep enough WR group around them to give them the best chance to win.
When Favre had Robert Brooks, Antonio Freeman, Andre Rison, Keith Jackson, and Mark Chimera (with Don Beebe as the 4th or 5th option) he looked good.
When it shifted to a washed-up Freeman, Bill Schroeder, Bubba Franks, and Corey Bradford he looked worse. His 2nd-4th options at WR/TE just weren't good enough, even when Javon Walker broke out for that short period of time.
We all think of MM's arrival as what turned around Favre in 2007-08, but just as important was adding Jennings and James Jones to go along with Driver. Rodgers got the benefit of adding Jordy Nelson and Finley to Driver, Jennings, and James Jones.
The same thing happened to Rodgers that happened to Favre in that his 2nd-4th receiving options became suspect in the mid 2010s. In retrospect look at some of those guys they had to go along with Adams the last half-decade or so. Post-ACL Nelson, post-2014 Cobb, Abbrederis, Janis, Montgomery, Lazard, MVS, St. Brown, a fossilized version of Jimmy Graham, RichRod, Sammy Watkins, Sternberger, ancient M. Lewis (who was basically another OT on the field).
The front offices really failed to provide enough depth at WR/TE to maximize the presence of two HOF QBs for the last 30 years. The #2-#4 WRs are guys that you can get for good, but not break-the-bank, type money. Of course, just having competent speical teams would have meant at least two more Super Bowl appearances.
The difference between Favre and Rodgers was that Favre would get frustrated by it and basically just say F it and throw 20+ picks a year. Rodgers didn't do that. Even the interception Sunday was a 3rd and 10 throw and it resulted in the equivalent of a 25 yard, instead of 40 yard, punt. Favre would have thrown at least one pick-6 in that type of game.
@50k Club posted:I'm not ready to write Rodgers off yet. The offense was putrid early in the year because of the young WRs and veteran WRs who scared no one. It was so plodding and difficult to get chunk plays. Rodgers then broke his thumb and continued playing through it, probably to the detriment of the offense, rather than healing up. I'd like to see him one more year, hopefully healthy, with a better group of receivers and TEs than he had this year. Gute completely fucked up there this past off-season. Unfortunately, I think that means a lot of fresh faces, which takes time to get up to speed.
Gute really hasn't been that good except for his free agent signings his first year as a GM. The advantage he had was that the Packers draft classes were so awful from about 2014-2017 that they had extra money to spend because they didn't need it to extend many of their own guys (D. Adams, Kenny Clark, and Aaron Jones were the only key guys they needed).
Gutey had three great signings his first off-season that completely transformed that defense (Z. Smith, P. Smith, and Amos). He deserves credit for that.
In terms of his own picks, Jaire has been outstanding, but other than that, this team was good for the previous 3 years mainly because of guys he inherited (Rodgers, Bakhtiari, D. Adams, Aaron Jones, and Kenny Clark). He's drafted two guys that look like Pro Bowlers in 5 drafts (Jenkins and Jaire). Maybe Gary and Watson get there too, but he's not exactly been pre-senile TT when it comes to adding talent in the draft.
@Fandame posted:If Rodgers has an MVP-type season on another team (and I don't really see that happening), it would have to be a situation something like Brady stepped into with TB or Stafford went to in LA -- a ready-made team with all the pieces in all the places and a heck of an OL. Without those things, you have the current editions of Brady and Stafford. And yes, injuries play a huge part as well.
He’s not going to a rebuild job.
@Pikes Peak posted:He’s not going to a rebuild job.
That was exactly my point. Stafford stepped into a ready-made situation, as did Brady when he went to TB. Rodgers would want something like that.
No way the Packers would allow it but….Detroit?
@50k Club posted:I'm not ready to write Rodgers off yet. The offense was putrid early in the year because of the young WRs and veteran WRs who scared no one. It was so plodding and difficult to get chunk plays. Rodgers then broke his thumb and continued playing through it, probably to the detriment of the offense, rather than healing up. I'd like to see him one more year, hopefully healthy, with a better group of receivers and TEs than he had this year. Gute completely fucked up there this past off-season. Unfortunately, I think that means a lot of fresh faces, which takes time to get up to speed.
Of course he is partly to blame for the early season mess for spending his offseason smoking shrooms in South America when he should have been working with his new receivers.
Does he have another MVP type season in him? Maybe, but he would have to really commit himself. I don’t see him doing that in Green Bay.
@50k Club posted:Rodgers then broke his thumb and continued playing through it, probably to the detriment of the offense, rather than healing up. I'd like to see him one more year, hopefully healthy...
The problem is unless you surround him with a Brady level OL, the odds of him playing a full season unscathed are starting to really dive at his age.
When AR was asked about the reasons for the drop in offensive production from last season, he paused for a bit and then said something to the effect of "there are a lot of things I could say, but don't feel like saying them here and now" ... leaves unanswered if he thinks it was the WRs, the offensive staff, the game plan, play calls. He comes off as honest and grounded in this presser.
@FLPACKER posted:When AR was asked about the reasons for the drop in offensive production from last season, he paused for a bit and then said something to the effect of "there are a lot of things I could say, but don't feel like saying them here and now" ... leaves unanswered if he thinks it was the WRs, the offensive staff, the game plan, play calls. He comes off as honest and grounded in this presser.
Rodgers did say he didn't like the playcalls at the end of the game, which MLF didn't exactly seem thrilled about hearing (probably because MLF heard it from the media and not from Rodgers).
MLF also talked about how certain guys were trying to play "hero ball" and too often tried to make up for what they thought was their teammates deficiencies but that this just causes more issues than it solves. I wonder if part of that is also what Rodgers is alluding to.
On camera, he usually does come off as grounded and honest, but even in that answer, you see him hinting at other people being the problem rather than him looking inward. Are other people to blame as well? Sure. But the first place to look is in the mirror, and I don't think he's honestly done that for the past couple of years.
@Fandame posted:On camera, he usually does come off as grounded and honest, but even in that answer, you see him hinting at other people being the problem rather than him looking inward. Are other people to blame as well? Sure. But the first place to look is in the mirror, and I don't think he's honestly done that for the past couple of years.
Him not showing up at OTAs to get in a groove with the young receivers MIGHT be important.
Mike Whale was baffled by the Packers "over use" of the jet sweep motion vs. the Lions. He also couldn't believe how much trouble we had blocking their front, which pretty much everyone else did with ease this season this season. One thing I noticed was the Lions using a unique (at least to me) technique vs. our zone run scheme. They would take a step in the direct that our o-lineman would want to take them, stop and then let the blockers momentum take them to their outside shoulder and then penetrate the gap behind the blocker. I think I counted 4 times that this led to a negative or no gain run putting us behind the chains. The Lions d-staff just seemed to be one step ahead of our offense all night. It just seemed like every time we "thought we'd get a certain look" and call a play good for it, that wasn't the look we got. VERY evident on the early 4th down run by Lazard ... looks like there were 3 unblocked defenders to tackle him.