Brak posted:

DocBenni posted:

We are now currently in the AR Paradox:

 

So many good posts after yesterday's game.  Lots of well thought out analyses.

I like "the AR Paradox."  It's true.  I'm not suggesting that Rodgers should do anything about it, but I don't know that Patriot fans have ever found themselves in "the Brady Paradox."  Say what you will, but that guy's desire to win is unmatched.  And I don't think he's even in the top ten in terms of QB salary.  Because he values team success over his own individual compensation.

On the other hand, he married pretty well.

Yes. Your salary isn't as much of an issue when your wife is worth 400 million

That pass to Graham that he dropped was elite, turns out the would have required a lot more elite passes to stay in that game.  

I think a legit #2 receiver (and not forgetting to use AJ in the passing game) makes this offense much different.  

To me, the Packers (and therefore Rodgers') fortunes will begin and end on the performance of the OL.
We're at a point where the entire right side of the line essentially needs to be replaced. It may happen via the draft, trade, FA acquisition, or by roster depth.

Linsley has been average at best, but he's regressed this year to the point I think we can do much better there. He has a $10M + cap hit next year, but would only cost us $2M in dead money if he's released.
Turner is a wash, again at best. I'm willing to bet he loses as many battles as he wins in pass pro, and not sure his run blocking is any better. He has a $7M + cap hit next year, and he's not worth half that. Unfortunately, we're likely stuck with him because his dead money hit is almost that same amount. He's not going to be a long-term answer at G, in any case.
Bulaga is in an unfavorable position. His age and injury history hurts him, but his experience and (mostly good) performance counters that. I don't know how the team can ask him to sign for modest dollars when he should be earning more than Turner, and the risk/reward becomes much more critical.

YATittle posted:

Reminds me of the days when Favre fed Sterling Sharpe and almost no one else.

This is an accurate statement to me.  Back then #4 had Sterling and a bunch of meh bodies.  I personally think that it isn't Rodgers that is the issue it is the total lack of playmakers around him.  Jones is a darn good back to me but the TE position is old players who don't have much play making ability anymore and the WR position is Adams and a bunch of guys with possible potential.  I know finding guys like Adams isn't easy but if you could find a couple of guys half as good as him the offense will be able to produce better. That will in turn help the OL out because they won't have to pass protect on every passing down for 4-5 seconds hoping a receiver can get open.

With all that being said I am sure Gute has his notes and I bet offensive play makers are very high on his list.

The Heckler posted:

YATittle posted:

Reminds me of the days when Favre fed Sterling Sharpe and almost no one else.

This is an accurate statement to me.  Back then #4 had Sterling and a bunch of meh bodies.  I personally think that it isn't Rodgers that is the issue it is the total lack of playmakers around him.  Jones is a darn good back to me but the TE position is old players who don't have much play making ability anymore and the WR position is Adams and a bunch of guys with possible potential.  I know finding guys like Adams isn't easy but if you could find a couple of guys half as good as him the offense will be able to produce better. That will in turn help the OL out because they won't have to pass protect on every passing down for 4-5 seconds hoping a receiver can get open.

With all that being said I am sure Gute has his notes and I bet offensive play makers are very high on his list.

No argument from me about Adams and a bunch of guys with potential.  But....the offense was at it's best this season when Adams was out for those four games.  It forced Rodgers to work the system instead of locking in on his security blanket.  I watch other team's games and I see QBs who are connecting with receivers who are in the same league as Lazard and Kumerow.  And someone else just posted how effective Jones was in the passing game while Adams was out, and how he's disappeared since his return. That's either coaching,  or a stubborn QB.

The Packers have averaged 409 yards per game without Adams, and 303 ypg with him.

I don’t think a lack of playmakers is the problem. 

MLF acknowledged yesterday that they need to do a much better job of getting Jones involved in the passing game.

I miss the days of Rodgers spreading the ball around. When he did that with Jordy, JJones, Cobb, etc., things hummed, as they did earlier this year when Adams was out and Rodgers spread the ball around. Since Adams came back, he thinks Adams needs to see the ball more and more when he really doesn't. Without Adams, Rodgers made Lazard noticeable; he tossed it to WWJ; Graham saw more balls; Jones was involved; MVS even made an appearance. Now we're back to "I wanna play pitch-and-catch with only one guy" and it's hurting the team.

Now is when MLF will either earn his HC title or he will become a figurehead... I have my fingers crossed he will step up.

When MLF says "they" need to do a better job, I'm certain he's talking to his QB.  

This is all on AR.  He was forced to spread the ball around and work within the system when Adams was out.  Guess what?  It worked.  Insert Adams and AR stands around waiting for him to get open while ignoring other targets.  Guess what?  It doesn't work.  

RochNyFan posted:

No argument from me about Adams and a bunch of guys with potential.  But....the offense was at it's best this season when Adams was out for those four games.  It forced Rodgers to work the system instead of locking in on his security blanket.  I watch other team's games and I see QBs who are connecting with receivers who are in the same league as Lazard and Kumerow.  And someone else just posted how effective Jones was in the passing game while Adams was out, and how he's disappeared since his return. That's either coaching,  or a stubborn QB.

Anybody care to look at the quality of defenses they've gone against since Adams has been back vs when he was out?  Some of it is MLF and AR's will, I'm sure.  But they also just went against a fairly dominant D.  Playcalling can improve the current O across the board but they just dont' have the horses right now to beat a D like SF or SEA when they're playing well.  

To add to the discussion about the problem being Rodgers holding the ball too long. 

From ESPN today.

It's easy to wonder why Rodgers didn't simply chuck it deep more often. But he clearly felt compelled to throw earlier than he wanted to. When he wasn't taking one of five sacks, Rodgers' average time before throwing was 2.40 seconds, the quickest of any quarterback in Week 12.

DH13 posted:

RochNyFan posted:

No argument from me about Adams and a bunch of guys with potential.  But....the offense was at it's best this season when Adams was out for those four games.  It forced Rodgers to work the system instead of locking in on his security blanket.  I watch other team's games and I see QBs who are connecting with receivers who are in the same league as Lazard and Kumerow.  And someone else just posted how effective Jones was in the passing game while Adams was out, and how he's disappeared since his return. That's either coaching,  or a stubborn QB.

Anybody care to look at the quality of defenses they've gone against since Adams has been back vs when he was out?  Some of it is MLF and AR's will, I'm sure.  But they also just went against a fairly dominant D.  Playcalling can improve the current O across the board but they just dont' have the horses right now to beat a D like SF or SEA when they're playing well.  

Average defensive ranking with Adams: 10th

Average without: 19th

So yeah, the Packers have played better defenses (on average) when they’ve had Adams in the lineup. 

SF has an excellent defense, no question there. And definitely, the OL and O in general were not ready for that level of intensity and play. I wonder if they would have been a bit more ready if they did not have the bye week before playing SF and were in the groove. Yes, the rest is nice, but the team came out like a deer in headlights: Sunday night game, lack of intensity, a step slow, etc.

Thanks, BD.  It was a rhetorical question but all the better that you actually posted the numbers.  I would guess a lot of the posts that think having Adams back is the root of all offensive failures were completely missing that point.

https://footballfilmroom.com/2...-protection-problem/

DH13 posted:

RochNyFan posted:

No argument from me about Adams and a bunch of guys with potential.  But....the offense was at it's best this season when Adams was out for those four games.  It forced Rodgers to work the system instead of locking in on his security blanket.  I watch other team's games and I see QBs who are connecting with receivers who are in the same league as Lazard and Kumerow.  And someone else just posted how effective Jones was in the passing game while Adams was out, and how he's disappeared since his return. That's either coaching,  or a stubborn QB.

Anybody care to look at the quality of defenses they've gone against since Adams has been back vs when he was out?  Some of it is MLF and AR's will, I'm sure.  But they also just went against a fairly dominant D.  Playcalling can improve the current O across the board but they just dont' have the horses right now to beat a D like SF or SEA when they're playing well.  

Facts and context all fall before stats.

FLPACKER posted:

https://footballfilmroom.com/2...-protection-problem/

I don't know what's up with Bak but it's not some small thing.  It isn't just a health issue either.  Lots of stupid penalties.   Linsley just falls to shit if he doesn't have 4 solid OL around him either and it compounds the problem.  We should just start referring to him as Training Wheels.  Maybe they can draft a C in the first round next year.

It is the first year of the Mayo regime but I do think Goink needs to take a deeper look at personnel too.  He was on the right track with the Daniels move which I didn't agree with at the time.  He may have to dig even deeper. 

I like the energy of this team but that doesn't mean forgoing a stable underlying culture predicated by the HC and FO.  I'm not saying there's an issue because how would I know?  Point being there's good energy but there's also some gaps in the fence where the herd of cats are escaping.  Gluteus Khan and Mayo need to make sure their cat cowboy skills are solid.

Bak clearly has a drinking problem. I mean, have you seen him at a Bucks game?

PackerHawk posted:

Bak clearly has a drinking problem. I mean, have you seen him at a Bucks game?

He appears to have no problem drinking, whatsoever!

Henry posted:

I don't know what's up with Bak but it's not some small thing.  It isn't just a health issue either.  Lots of stupid penalties.   Linsley just falls to shit if he doesn't have 4 solid OL around him either and it compounds the problem.  We should just start referring to him as Training Wheels.  Maybe they can draft a C in the first round next year.

It is the first year of the Mayo regime but I do think Goink needs to take a deeper look at personnel too.  He was on the right track with the Daniels move which I didn't agree with at the time.  He may have to dig even deeper. 

I like the energy of this team but that doesn't mean forgoing a stable underlying culture predicated by the HC and FO.  I'm not saying there's an issue because how would I know?  Point being there's good energy but there's also some gaps in the fence where the herd of cats are escaping.  Gluteus Khan and Mayo need to make sure their cat cowboy skills are solid.

We have 4 starters who, in IMHO, have had disappointing years: Bak, Linsley, King, & Lowry. In addition Graham & Martinez are what we thought they were (no Denny Green pun intended). All the schemes in the world don't work if you are consistently having players lose their one-on-one match ups. 

mrtundra posted:

PackerHawk posted:

Bak clearly has a drinking problem. I mean, have you seen him at a Bucks game?

He appears to have no problem drinking, whatsoever!

Touche. 

OK, Rodgers has a drinking problem.  

A buddy of mine (not a Packers fan) suggested that we trade Rodgers to The Bengals for a boatload of picks, use the savings on FA and try and pick up Minshoe. He also suggested that the Packers miss Campy for the line coach.

I disagreed at the time.

Your buddy is pretty dumb. 

PackerPatrick posted:

A buddy of mine (not a Packers fan) suggested that we trade Rodgers to The Bengals for a boatload of picks, use the savings on FA and try and pick up Minshoe. He also suggested that the Packers miss Campy for the line coach.

I disagreed at the time.

This wreaks of one of those "asking for a friend" questions... 

Pakrz posted:

PackerPatrick posted:

A buddy of mine (not a Packers fan) suggested that we trade Rodgers to The Bengals for a boatload of picks, use the savings on FA and try and pick up Minshoe. He also suggested that the Packers miss Campy for the line coach.

I disagreed at the time.

This wreaks of one of those "asking for a friend" questions... 

It sure does. But it really happened almost two months ago. I laughed at the time.

Now just imagine what MLF and AR will do when he get's better WR's in 2020:

Rob DemovskyESPN Staff Writer 

From ESPN Stats and Info: Aaron Rodgers took advantage of the Giants over the middle of the field Sunday, going 11-of-12 for 170 yards and 3 TDs between the field numbers. That's his best completion percentage, most TDs and 5th most yards on those passes over the last 3 seasons. He went 6-of-6 with 2 TDs on passes 15+ yards downfield and between the numbers. That's his most such completions in a game in his career.

Going over the middle!  

Timpranillo posted:

Going over the middle!  

Something late in MM's tenure that he and AR seemed incapable of. Drove me ***king nuts. Take note Aaron, yes, we can use the middle of the field. 

But....but....but Nutsack and Lamemo told us Rodgers was afraid to throw into the middle. Guess they are rong as usual.  And I know you 2 are reading this. 

I found a pic of YA Tittle

Rodgers is there too.

Now just imagine what he could do with a real #2 WR under MLF. 

Aaron Rodgers could have 4,000 yards, 30 TD, fewer than 5 INT and a plus-100 passer rating for only 2nd time in his career. He also has as many sub-100 and sub-90 passer ratings as all last season.

Where is his game at 36 years old? Here’s what he says: https://t.co/ZceyZtvLmL

— Ryan Wood (@ByRyanWood) December 6, 2019

Rodgers not ELITE??? Are we talking about his beer chugging skills again?

Got 4 games left. Stretch run is here....

The time is now ....it is now.

Do what you're supposed to do & crush this Redskin team. I expect to see Rodgers sitting at the start of the 4th quarter. Or soon thereafter.

Bear & Vikings will not be pushovers. 

Bears looked good last night. They haven't quit.

Lions, on the other hand....

Bears looked good against a team in complete disarray and still let the game get to 31-24

Who called the dagger too early? I guess there would have to be a game thread for that. How bad is it that Bears/Cowboys don't even warrant a game thread during a prime time game? 

Blair Kiel's fault!

PackerHawk posted:

Who called the dagger too early? I guess there would have to be a game thread for that. How bad is it that Bears/Cowboys don't even warrant a game thread during a prime time game? 

There was a thread. Capably started by packlandinva., but I’m pretty sure the mods killed its entirely due to catts and her ceaseless, clueless political takes.

I looked for it and it was gone.  Seriously thought I had a dream sequence in my life.