Hyde was/is a good player.
Speed, or the lack thereof, was his biggest limitation. It didn't help that his role was grossly miscast by the Wizard.
“I know for a fact we would not have gotten him by staying at 30,” Gutekunst said forcefully.
The Baltimore Ravens, who were set to pick at No. 22, and the Indianapolis Colts, who were set to pick at No. 26, both traded back out of those picks after Savage came off the board.
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I'm glad. Can't begin to tell you how many times throughout the years, the Ravens beat the pack to a player. Including Ray Lewis. Colts needed a safety too.
Like I said....these teams know where players are slotted by their 31 opponents. Good for Gutey.
I don't doubt that Savage wouldn't have lasted until the 30th pick. I'm cautiously optimistic that the price to move up to get him will be worth it.
Gutey said it was a "steep price" to pay. Not according to the Draft Value Chart & I looked at a couple different ones.
Incidentally, the Vikings ended up with pick #114
I'm guessing he meant a, "steep price" because of giving up 2 early 4th RD picks where historically some darn good players can still be found. Especially when you have as many holes to fill and the need for depth that we do. Could have used an inside linebacker, O Lineman, or WR with those 2 picks.
I don't pay any attention to Draft Value Charts because to me every pick has a different value to each team depending on who's available and what their needs or board says. Kind of like selling antiques...everything has a different value to people based on their circumstances.
Yeah the DVC is just a guideline especially as you get later in the draft but the first round it's generally a good indicator.
If Savage turns into a faster version of Nick Collins, the "steep price" was MORE than worth it.
I agree Boris. If Savage turns into the difference maker I think he can be then it's well worth the price. His play could open up opportunities to do a lot of different things with the D that currently we can't because we don't have the right personnel.
Timmy! posted:Hyde was/is a good player.
Speed, or the lack thereof, was his biggest limitation. It didn't help that his role was grossly miscast by the Wizard.
His role was that they had no other option. He was a zone safety trying to play nickle corner because TT botched the defensive backfield so horribly they had to put any healthy body at a spot.
I like the pick because I expect him to start. Moving Tramon to corner. The cascade effect of that and moving the other safeties to the special teams will be significant. The two Joshes will either improve or move to special teams.
hof1991 posted:I like the pick because I expect him to start. Moving Tramon to corner. The cascade effect of that and moving the other safeties to the special teams will be significant. The two Joshes will either improve or move to special teams.
I was wondering who our #2 corner is. That's an area of weakness as well, then.
Oh well, Rome didn't get built in a day. Packers likely couldn't fill every hole.
By the way, at the recent minicamp, there was one DNP. You guessed it - Kevin King. I've pretty much lost all hope for him and I thought he played really well last year when healthy.
I wouldn’t count out Tony Brown as a major contributor at CB. He’s got the speed and the instincts, he just needs to learn discipline and refine his technique. Guy can run with anyone though and knows how to attack the ball. Having Jaire, Brown, Savage all playing well with the aggressive mentality and speed they all have would be pretty awesome. That’s a group that’s difficult to beat deep and would give our pass rush just a split second more to get home.
Grave Digger posted:I wouldn’t count out Tony Brown as a major contributor at CB. He’s got the speed and the instincts, he just needs to learn discipline and refine his technique. Guy can run with anyone though and knows how to attack the ball. Having Jaire, Brown, Savage all playing well with the aggressive mentality and speed they all have would be pretty awesome. That’s a group that’s difficult to beat deep and would give our pass rush just a split second more to get home.
Man, GD, I didn't even know who Tony Brown is. I just did a search and read one article on him:
https://packerswire.usatoday.c...eview-cb-tony-brown/
Great to see.
So I guess Kenny King is a throw away now?
He's going to stay healthy this season & he'll be the #2 CB
Boris posted:So I guess Kenny King is a throw away now?
He's going to stay healthy this season & he'll be the #2 CB
I hope you are right, but what is this based on?
The only DNP in the minicamp was Kevin King.
His being out with some kind of injury is a record in consistency.
T Brown sounds like a bit of a sleeper and GB was lucky enough to grab him. I like that he’s willing to hit, and that he has the moxie to break up passes. He may be Tramon’s replacement in 2020 if he keeps progressing, and if not, at least he’s a ST guy able to hit.
Boris posted:So I guess Kenny King is a throw away now?
He's going to stay healthy this season & he'll be the #2 CB
I don’t think he’s a throw away at all. I don’t think Brown is a starter by any means, King is obviously the #2. Brown will be a contributor though, as will Jackson. They need King to 1) stay healthy and 2) stay healthy to get any clue what he can do and see how he’s progressed. He has the physical skills, just needs experience. Out of 2116 possible snaps in his career he’s played just 684 (32%).
The main issue is King needs to be the #1 for the defense to be its best. Alexander should be the #2, living in the slot and being a matchup guy while King covers the Julio Jones-types in the league.
I think people are reading way too much from King's DNP.
He may not be hurt at all, and is being held out on Dr.'s orders (the proverbial overabundance of caution).
King needs to stay healthy and produce on the field. It's that simple.
Boris posted:“I know for a fact we would not have gotten him by staying at 30,” Gutekunst said forcefully.
The Baltimore Ravens, who were set to pick at No. 22, and the Indianapolis Colts, who were set to pick at No. 26, both traded back out of those picks after Savage came off the board.
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I'm glad. Can't begin to tell you how many times throughout the years, the Ravens beat the pack to a player. Including Ray Lewis. Colts needed a safety too.
Like I said....these teams know where players are slotted by their 31 opponents. Good for Gutey.
The Pack ends up with Ray Lewis in that '96 draft, they win Super Bowl XXXII over the Broncos with room to spare. Nothing personal against Bernardo Harris but he wasn't half the player Lewis was.
phaedrus posted:Boris posted:So I guess Kenny King is a throw away now?
He's going to stay healthy this season & he'll be the #2 CB
I hope you are right, but what is this based on?
The only DNP in the minicamp was Kevin King.
His being out with some kind of injury is a record in consistency.
Based on rainbows and unicorns.
YATittle posted:At least he has a great last name.
Saw any number of charts having him ranked between the 6th and 8th best S in the draft. Better be worth it.
fightphoe93 posted:Boris posted:“I know for a fact we would not have gotten him by staying at 30,” Gutekunst said forcefully.
The Baltimore Ravens, who were set to pick at No. 22, and the Indianapolis Colts, who were set to pick at No. 26, both traded back out of those picks after Savage came off the board.
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I'm glad. Can't begin to tell you how many times throughout the years, the Ravens beat the pack to a player. Including Ray Lewis. Colts needed a safety too.
Like I said....these teams know where players are slotted by their 31 opponents. Good for Gutey.
The Pack ends up with Ray Lewis in that '96 draft, they win Super Bowl XXXII over the Broncos with room to spare. Nothing personal against Bernardo Harris but he wasn't half the player Lewis was.
Shoot calling him 1/4 of the player would be a compliment.
Calling him an equal in terms of being a human being might not be as much of a compliment.
Grave Digger posted:I wouldn’t count out Tony Brown as a major contributor at CB. He’s got the speed and the instincts, he just needs to learn discipline and refine his technique. Guy can run with anyone though and knows how to attack the ball. Having Jaire, Brown, Savage all playing well with the aggressive mentality and speed they all have would be pretty awesome. That’s a group that’s difficult to beat deep and would give our pass rush just a split second more to get home.
Yes. I love his game. He brings the nasty as well. Just needs to learn to harness the energy a little.
Johnny Z posted:It's a new league. You have to trade up to get the short guy.
Yeah...like we've never been here before.
You hear me Troy Vincent?
I knew T-Buck wouldn't work out when he wore a GD denim shirt for his phone call.
I mean...denim? C'mon man.
Yup. Nothin' says bust like a denim shirt.
I blame that on his agent tho.
I'm happy if our safeties are at least in the frame this year. Even on a wide screen TV, there were plenty of times last season where they were not.
Savage's snaps last year in terms of position:
332 slot
147 SS
90 FS
90 LB
11 CB
7 Edge
Talk about giving Angry Bald Man some versatility.
Can we shorten it to ABM
A BM seems to fit a GB defensive coordinator
Pffft, 0 snaps at MLB and DT. Not that versatile.
Until he plays 3-tech....he's useless
excalibur posted:YATittle posted:At least he has a great last name.
Saw any number of charts having him ranked between the 6th and 8th best S in the draft. Better be worth it.
Oh, well CHARTS!
That seals it.
PackerHawk posted:Pffft, 0 snaps at MLB and DT. Not that versatile.
What's his YAC as an OG?
Boris posted:Yeah the DVC is just a guideline especially as you get later in the draft but the first round it's generally a good indicator.
If Savage turns into a faster version of Nick Collins, the "steep price" was MORE than worth it.
Faster version of Collins? I doubt that. Collins ran a sub 4.4 as did Savage. And being slightly longer my guess is Collins had a higher top end and could reach more balls than just about any safety ever.
Henry posted:What's his YAC as an OG?
Pfffftt.
Put him on KO returns.
Vs. the Cheatriots.
DZarnell SZavage in the boat!
To me, Darnell Savage was the ONE PLAYER that I wanted Gutey to draft.
What a great trade this will have turned out to be. Savage can range better than any S in the draft. Not only that, but I would venture to say no other DB has the ability to diagnose and react better. His ability to anticipate where the ball is going on any given play, run or pass, is just freakish, reminding me a bit of Charles Woodson in that regard.
His acumen for the position is absolutely 1st rate. As a comparison, I like to think he is a Nick Collins clone, after he had 3-4 years of pro experience under his belt. That's pretty freaking high praise, but, I believe it is warranted with him.
Also, Savage is a prime pairing with Adrian Amos, another S that I wanted Ted to draft back in the day out of Penn St. This secondary is going to completely rock, and now with the additions in the front 7... WOW. Darnell Savage is the most complete player at FS that we ever could have hoped to add to our secondary.
Every secondary will look like dog shit without a pass rush. Now we have both? Massive rush adding Z, Preston, Gary, Keke, Ramsey, Roberts to Clark, Daniels, Fackrell, Lowry et al.
If Kevin King can stay healthy all season, great. If not, I still believe we will be one of the top secondaries -and- overall defenses in the NFL.
Nobody is giving the Packers love. I think we are going to shock a lot of people this season.
My hat is completely off to Gutey and his staff.