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I expect to see some improvement coming out of the bye. Pettine had an extra week in the lab, and the boys had an extra week to get healthy.

We've had a tough schedule. Can't overlook that. Our defensive stats will look much better after games against NYG, WASH, etc.

It's not a dominant defense, but we've got enough to win games with our balanced offense. Force turnovers, come up with timely stops, and keep them out of the EZ. Allowing 20 pts/game isn't terrible, especially given the opponents we've faced. 

mrtundra posted:

Some here are talking how we will do in the playoffs. Playoffs??? One game at a time, folks! Let's deal with and beat the 49ers first. Then we can look at our next opponent. Making the playoffs should be a goal but it also should not distract us from what is right in front of us.

Nothing will derail a teams season more than distracted fans. 

mrtundra posted:

Some here are talking how we will do in the playoffs. Playoffs??? One game at a time, folks! Let's deal with and beat the 49ers first. Then we can look at our next opponent. Making the playoffs should be a goal but it also should not distract us from what is right in front of us.

Thank you Jim Mora.

Middle of Packers' defense vulnerable to 49ers' passing attack

Through 10 games, the opposition has thrown 92 passes over the short middle of the Packers’ defense – the most against any team in the NFL. And on 11 passes over the deep middle the Packers gave up 23.9 yards on average, which is No. 31 in the league.

Campbell may help shore this up some. They're playing a lot of 3 Safety looks with Amos, Savage, and some combination of Greene/Sullivan/Redmond. With Greene in there that allowed Savage/Amos to play deeper and read the QB, but Sullivan/Redmond weren't suited to fill in for Greene and that meant Amos had to move up. It's a little bit of a waste of Amos's talent to play him so close to the line and that opened some gaps in coverage. Amos has the experience and the range to cover more ground, I think Pettine was hesitant to let Sullivan/Redmond and Savage do anything but a deep cover 2 look with Amos closer to the line. With Campbell playing that low Safety spot and Amos moving back, it allows more opportunity to take away that intermediate zone in the middle where we've been getting gashed. 

Pettine is justified when it comes to Redmond.  Sullivan has made some splash plays but a scrub is a scrub and they'll probably get beat more than they splash.  They really need the ILB presence not only for pass coverage but against the run.  Goodman is just a hunk of meat.  Playing safeties close to the line constantly is surely one reason for the big play problems they have.

Last edited by Henry
BrainDed posted:
Henry posted:

Just wait until Ty Summers hits the field.  DOMINATION of the middle.

Sure.. But the probable drop off is so minimal that the possible reward is worth the risk. 

I don't disagree.  Maybe when he's pinballing off blockers he'll trip someone up. 

Defense gave up twelve explosive plays last night and as bad as they were the offense and ST were worse. Really an inexcusable performance given two weeks to prepare and the entire Packer organization deserves scrutiny for that putrid product.

Kevin King is Kevin King.  At times he can be very good but he’s prone to either lapses in judgement or just plain laziness.  

The positive news is he’s actually played in more than half a season, but he’s no TJ Watt. 

Martinez does his job; it’s not his fault he’s average in terms of quickness and athleticism.   He needs another ILB alongside him that can cover.  

 

Again, there's a lot more going on with the defense than Blake Martinez.  Outside of the Smith brothers, I'm not seeing much.  Amos and Savage aren't doing anything.  King gets blasted.  Alexander does okay most of the time but he doesn't make the plays you'd expect out of somebody with his skill set.  WTF is up with Kenny Clark?  Williams is just ok.  

 

I don't know if that's fair. Amos and Savage are doing a lot of dirty work covering up for poor play at CB or cheating up to cover up poor play in the front 7. Teams don't throw at Jaire much, so I'm not sure he's getting many opportunities to make plays, truly we've seen more of him running down tackles resulting from other players fuck ups than we've seen him actually covering someone. Clark is like 4th in the league in pressures by interior DL, he's doing fine IMO. The weak spots are Lowry, Lancaster, Martinez, King, and whoever is playing next to Martinez (Goodson?). You can scheme to avoid good players like Clark and Jaire when there are multiple gaps like this. 

I’m not down on Amos as I think he’s been pretty consistent.   He’s an above average player and he doesn’t seem to make many mistakes.  You need guys like that on a defense. 

Savage is a rookie so you will see some brilliant plays and some not so brilliant plays.   He’s certainly got the physical tools to be a really good player and I hope that with more experience he will get there. 

The challenge to me is they probably need another solid DL and they certainly need a better ILB and maybe two if Martinez doesn’t return.   I also think they could use one more decent corner but just about every team will say that. 

With another good draft and offseason the Packers can take a step forward and become an elite team.  They aren’t one right now despite their 8-3 record.  

Tschmack posted:

 

Martinez does his job; it’s not his fault he’s average in terms of quickness and athleticism.   He needs another ILB alongside him that can cover.  

 

No..  No he doesn't.   Part of his job is to defend the pass and the ZERO FUCKING PASSES DEFENDED for the season while playing 99% of the snaps clearly indicates that he is not doing his job.    The crossing routes are designed to exploit his stiffness and lack of awareness.    He sits like a statue as the opponent runs across his face or doesn't get proper depth to defend it. 

http://www.nfl.com/player/blak...inez/2555161/profile

Last edited by BrainDed

Go get Joe Schobert from Cleveland. Let Martinez walk and someone will overpay him based on tackles per year. Then draft an ILB in the 1st 3 rounds. If Gutey thinks Oren Burks is what he is, then move on from him.     

Tschmack posted:

I’m not down on Amos as I think he’s been pretty consistent.   He’s an above average player and he doesn’t seem to make many mistakes.  You need guys like that on a defense. 

Savage is a rookie so you will see some brilliant plays and some not so brilliant plays.   He’s certainly got the physical tools to be a really good player and I hope that with more experience he will get there. 

The challenge to me is they probably need another solid DL and they certainly need a better ILB and maybe two if Martinez doesn’t return.   I also think they could use o. ne more decent corner but just about every team will say that. 

With another good draft and offseason the Packers can take a step forward and become an elite team.  They aren’t one right now despite their 8-3 record.  

You're a lot more optimistic than I am about them becoming an elite team in the near future. T hey  have just one quality d-lineman - Clark - and the rest are journeymen, try hard but limited athleticism guys.  Solid OLB's but limited talent and no depth in middle.  On offnese, the lack of focus in the draft has caught up with them...thin on o-line (Turner has not impressed at all),  middling WR talent - I think losing St. Brown has hurt more than anyone would have imagined - and Allison sucks.  Once our strength, we have an aging QB who is too stubborn to take what the defense is giving, refusing the quick hitters that have extended Brady's career and effectiveness.

ROCHNYFAN,  I agree on the d-lineman.  Clark is very good, Lowry is decent in a 3-4 scheme, but they have to upgrade the other spot because Lancaster aint it.

I think today is a tough day after that crappy loss but I think 99% of us are thrilled with the 8-3 start to the season after the last two years.  But, I think we all know there is still work to be done and I think Gute will get us there he just needs a little more time.

Exactly..   We've made tremendous progress in terms of personnel but there is still a long way to go.   I realize you can't be stacked at every position, but you also can't have complete liabilities at multiple positions. 

This game was the straw for me pertaining to King.    He's finally healthy and we have seen a large body of work.   It's not good.    He can win despite his lack of speed because of his length and strength so he's physically capable of being a good, not great, starting CB.  When you add in the complete lack of awareness it's too much to tolerate and he becomes a liability.   

The week before last we was caught playing zone while everyone else is in man and it led to a big gainer.   This week he just drops the best TE in the NFC for a big gainer TD.    There are more examples from earlier in the year too. 

If it happens once a season, okay, shit happens.   When it happens this consistently, it's a pattern and now your M.O.

I realize it’s beating a dead horse but had they just stayed put and drafted TJ Watt they wouldn’t have had to invest 118MM in the Smiths.   I’m glad we have them but with that much $$$ tied up into those two guys it’s going to limit what they can do in FA after this season. 

I agree with the idea that this is a progression.  Gute had a decent offseason and solid draft and they’ve filled or upgraded several important positions.  

That being said, I wasn’t expecting Super Bowl in 2019 because they still have some holes to fill.  

 

 

Amos and Savage are not getting it done. Both flashed earlier in the season but have both sucked since. Savage is young and still developing but we may have way over spent on Amos. Considering the investment in this defense they are beyond underwhelming . Looks like Capers defense 

Well no... but seriously, WTF has Amos really done on the year?  I mean other than the thought of "If you never hear a safeties name it means he's doing his job."  

Outside of a few nice tackles in run support during the first couple of weeks, I honestly can't recall a single time he's made a play or had his name mentioned during a broadcast.  Dude is invisible on the field. 

Rashan Gary: 13 snaps. 

Josh Jackson: 0 snaps. 

Montravious Adams: 6 snaps. 

Orin Burks: 0 snaps. 

That's a whole lot of high round draft picks who did nothing yesterday. And that's hardly an outlier. It's been this way nearly all season.

If I'm Gutekunst, wouldn't you be asking why? Either these players don't fit the system or they lack the talent. Neither is good. 

I understand it's early, but Gary to this point is particularly damning. This is the 12th overall pick in the draft who Gute drafted to be a very part time back up player. That simply cannot be what he envisioned when he took him 12th. 

packerboi posted:

Rashan Gary: 13 snaps. 

 

I understand it's early, but Gary to this point is particularly damning. This is the 12th overall pick in the draft who Gute drafted to be a very part time back up player. That simply cannot be what he envisioned when he took him 12th. 

The 49ers ran only 45 offensive plays (to score 38 points!!) so Gary was in for nearly 30% of the plays.  He is the backup to Z'Darius Smith, so not to be expected he will have as much playing time as he does.  Maybe after this season they push him inside, because at 277 he is not too light (and maybe he could put on a few pounds).

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