Ted Thompson to Step Down?

Packdog posted:

 Actually the Giants are a decent example of how adding a few FA make a difference. The Giant defense was the worst in the league just one year ago. They added a couple of FA in Janoris Jenkins and Olivier Vernon and it significantly improved their defense, and played a big part  in them making the playoffs this year. 

Saying the Giants added a couple FAs is a bit of an understatement. You left off Damon Harrison and Keenan Robinson. Almost $200 million in contracts with $105 million guaranteed for four players. $31 million cap hit in 16 that flips to a $42 million hit for three players in 17. Keenan was a one year deal.

Thats the complete other end of the spectrum and probably not the way to go about doing things.

Main point was that FA , and Jenkins and Vernon were very good primary adds, made a big difference. Built them into a playoff roster. 

As for cap implications, what the Giants did was extreme but you have to pay talent and choose wisely. $31M is a lot of money for the 4 Giant players , but the Packers payed around $36M for Peppers, Matthews, and Shields in 2016. That didn't turn out so well. Risk reward.

I don't subscribe to high level FA risk, but the Pack can't rely on the draft to fix CB, CB, ILB, OLB, G, RB, TE, etc...  A few selective FA adds (CB is a must) and signing several of Cook, Perry, Lang, Lacy, etc...would go along way. This team isn't as broken as some think. Just have to mix D + D with signing "our own" FA and a few UFA signings . 

I don't think the Giants are the example we want to use as why TT should change. 

It worked out well for them but usually teams that go crazy in free agency (think MN and Washington and Dallas over the years) haven't been overly successful. 

I do think adding one or two decent FAs is reasonable. 

Why? Jerry Reese is a proven quality GM. There are worse examples to follow. I'm not sure there is a Olivier Vernon or Janoris Jenkins or Damon Harrison out there this year that is worth the investment. I think Reese saw 3 guys who their teams were stupid for letting get away. Invest in quality, not investing just to invest.

Packdog posted:

 Actually the Giants are a decent example of how adding a few FA make a difference. The Giant defense was the worst in the league just one year ago. They added a couple of FA in Janoris Jenkins and Olivier Vernon and it significantly improved their defense, and played a big part  in them making the playoffs this year. 

Unlike the error the Packers make failing to sign superstars. As punishment they make the playoffs every year.

McGinn calls out Thompson big time in tonight article. And what he said is spot on. Another yrlear wasted with a great qb. 

If you consider only winning the Superb Owl a successful season then I feel bad for you and McGinn.  I got to watch my Packers in 3 games more than the Viking fans did. That makes it a good season. I got to see my team go into Jerry World and beat them on the final play of the game. That makes it a very good season. I got to watch my team in the NFC Championship Game.  Only 2 teams made that game. That makes it a successful season.  My team has lots of cap space to keep my favorite players and maybe, just maybe bring in a few new guys.  Wasted season, hardly.  You should have lived from 1969 to 1993 to see wasted seasons. 

I lived every year from 69 you 93. Stuck with them thru it all. Doesn't change the fact that Ted youngest roster in the league every year desire and his draft and develop  philosophy  is great only if the actually develop. More times than not, it isn't working. Team is a playoff team every year because they have the best qb on the planet. Losing him or less than great play by him shows a very flawed team. 

Floridarob posted:

McGinn calls out Thompson big time in tonight article. And what he said is spot on. Another yrlear wasted with a great qb. 

From Bob.

"In a cornerback room filled with so many shell-shocked young faces, why in the world wouldn’t Thompson sign a veteran or two who in the not-too-distant past had played well?

Antonio Cromartie, a four-time Pro Bowl player, was cut Oct. 4 by the Colts. At 32, Cromartie wasn’t playing well, but at least he had started the first four games. In 2015, he played 86% of the snaps for the Jets, performing best in a press-man scheme much like the Packers employ.

Perrish Cox, 29, started nine of 11 games for the Titans before being released Nov. 29. He struggled against the Packers on Nov. 13. His résumé included 45 starts and a checkered off-the-field record.

Dorleant, Hawkins and Callahan are dime-a-dozen free agents that might never be heard from again. They’re replaceable.

Give defensive coordinator Dom Capers and Joe Whitt, the veteran cornerbacks coach, a week with both Cromartie and Cox in a fresh environment for a Super Bowl-contending team and there’s a reasonable chance Matt Ryan wouldn’t have thrown for 371 yards in the first three quarters"

This is Bob channeling Skip's stupidity but not being restrained by Twitters 140 character limit. 

I mean how ****ing desperate is Bob getting? 

ammo posted:

If you consider only winning the Superb Owl a successful season then I feel bad for you and McGinn.  I got to watch my Packers in 3 games more than the Viking fans did. That makes it a good season. I got to see my team go into Jerry World and beat them on the final play of the game. That makes it a very good season. I got to watch my team in the NFC Championship Game.  Only 2 teams made that game. That makes it a successful season.  My team has lots of cap space to keep my favorite players and maybe, just maybe bring in a few new guys.  Wasted season, hardly.  You should have lived from 1969 to 1993 to see wasted seasons. 

I remember from 1976 on and I appreciate what we have now, but that doesn't mean there isn't some truth to what McGinn is saying. McGinn wants clicks, but the quotes from the other league execs are likely real. CB and RB this year were awful from a personnel perspective. ILB and TE were awful in previous years. 

CB and RB this year were awful from a personnel perspective before or after losing Shields and Lacy for the season?

"I'm fine"

Take notice of the un-named GM pointing out the great fortune of having  Favre, then Rodgers as your QB. McGinn, like many Packer fans sees the real crime of squandering this fortune with stubbornness. There is very little satisfaction to be had in watching the Packers play in a championship game and not even be competitive. True that some teams don't even get a sniff of the playoffs but the expectations are higher in Green Bay. Can't help but notice the references McGinn pointed out about the Patriot's that were also noted earlier this week by John Clayton How Trades Have Shaped the Patriots Defense. Think BB doesn't know what he has in Brady?

Goalline posted:

Packdog posted:

 Actually the Giants are a decent example of how adding a few FA make a difference. The Giant defense was the worst in the league just one year ago. They added a couple of FA in Janoris Jenkins and Olivier Vernon and it significantly improved their defense, and played a big part  in them making the playoffs this year. 

Unlike the error the Packers make failing to sign superstars. As punishment they make the playoffs every year.

Nobody said anything about signing superstars. Just about how a few free agents helped improve a crappy defense - we should be able to relate to trying to improve a crappy defense. And the Packers make the payoffs primarily because of having a once in a generation talent at QB, in spite of thier defense. 

It all started so promising when ted opened the vault for Marquand.

Who decide who. You decide how much. You decide for how long. A couple of links to help you with the task at hand.

Cap space

Play GM

ChilliJon posted:

Floridarob posted:

McGinn calls out Thompson big time in tonight article. And what he said is spot on. Another yrlear wasted with a great qb. 

From Bob.

"In a cornerback room filled with so many shell-shocked young faces, why in the world wouldn’t Thompson sign a veteran or two who in the not-too-distant past had played well?

Blah, blah blah…

I mean how ****ing desperate is Bob getting? 

You are welcome to your opinion but bringing some of the washed-up guys mentioned would have been better than what was on that field.

Isn't Parrish Cox a rapist? I'm okay with TT not signing him, I'd rather lose with non-rapists.

Found not guilty.  

Acquitted!

Bob's review of Randall and Rollins pre-season. Apparently, like TT, Bob misjudged what the Packers had.  Note that Bob's critique in his current article --" The Packers had six cornerbacks on the 53-man roster at the end of the season. Only two, LaDarius Gunter and Josh Hawkins, have a long history at the position"--wasn't an issue for Bob before the season.

http://www.packersnews.com/sto...oster-1-53/90044874/

"DAMARIOUS RANDALL, CB

He can run, jump, press and play off. He can tackle and blitz, too. Now into his second season after making the move from safety at Arizona State, Randall has the makings of being a reliable if not a big-play corner. He exudes confidence, an absolute necessity at the position. With Shields on the other side he will be challenged, and his response must be better than it was late last season.

QUINTEN ROLLINS, CB

He ended last season as one of the club’s top three corners and enters this one the same way. Aggressive to the ball on short to intermediate routes. Came close to a bunch of interceptions in camp. With additional seasoning, those breakups might become picks. Physical in run support, but must be careful not to throw his body around indiscriminately at the risk of needless injury."

Question to those who prefer to avoid free agency: do you think drafting a CB in the first round this year at #29 is going to fix the secondary problems?  If we go CB in the first or second, our top 4 CBs will have 2 years or less of experience.  4 CBs that still need significant development before we can call them above average starters (which is the goal).  Do we think this coaching staff can handle heavily developing 4 young CBs at the same time?  Maybe they can but you usually don't see that much youth at one position.  

IMO, you need a veteran CB to help with that development.  You need a veteran to hold down one starting position, be a steady influence on these young CBs.  Little stuff, like teaching them how to prepare for a game, how to watch film, how to read the pre-snap stuff, etc.  I think Shields was that guy but sounds like his career might be over (even if it's not, not sure the Packers can count on him for 16 games).  Now I don't know who the right veteran CB is but I just don't know that adding more youth to the youngest position group on the team is going to solve our issues.  

Health, and development.

Maybe a key FA or 2.

Tschmack posted:

The traffic cops in Rosendale are less predictable than TT 

While I expect he will probably make some moves like resigning Lang and Cook and maybe Perry I have zero expectations that he will sign a big dollar CB or OLB or DL.  That's just not what he does and he's not going to deviate now. 

It's no different than Dom Capers but the difference is that unlike TT the other guy hasn't delivered on his end.   It's amazing to me how people continue to give the guy a pass.  Why?  2010?  That team D had incredible talent and why should it have to take 5-6 Pro Bowlers on D to win a Super Bowl?   Woodson and Collins and Raji and Shields aren't walking through the door but the D is good enough with this offense to win and win big. 

Allowing 30 PPG in the playoffs is what Dom's D has become and it shouldn't have to take a perfect effort from Rodgers to win playoff games. 

Turn the page on Dom already 

Speaking of Raji. Is it possible that he walks through the door or is he finished?

I don't think he would be the same player even if he did.

ChilliJon posted:

Floridarob posted:

McGinn calls out Thompson big time in tonight article. And what he said is spot on. Another yrlear wasted with a great qb. 

From Bob.

"In a cornerback room filled with so many shell-shocked young faces, why in the world wouldn’t Thompson sign a veteran or two who in the not-too-distant past had played well?

Antonio Cromartie, a four-time Pro Bowl player, was cut Oct. 4 by the Colts. At 32, Cromartie wasn’t playing well, but at least he had started the first four games. In 2015, he played 86% of the snaps for the Jets, performing best in a press-man scheme much like the Packers employ.

Perrish Cox, 29, started nine of 11 games for the Titans before being released Nov. 29. He struggled against the Packers on Nov. 13. His résumé included 45 starts and a checkered off-the-field record.

Dorleant, Hawkins and Callahan are dime-a-dozen free agents that might never be heard from again. They’re replaceable.

Give defensive coordinator Dom Capers and Joe Whitt, the veteran cornerbacks coach, a week with both Cromartie and Cox in a fresh environment for a Super Bowl-contending team and there’s a reasonable chance Matt Ryan wouldn’t have thrown for 371 yards in the first three quarters"

This is Bob channeling Skip's stupidity but not being restrained by Twitters 140 character limit. 

I mean how ****ing desperate is Bob getting? 

No, he's absolutely right.  Remember how washed up Andre Rison was and the amount of baggage he was carrying?  But Wolf was always turning over the bottom of the roster because he knew there were always a couple guys on the roster like a Andy Mulumba, Carl Bradford, Christian Ringo, etc, etc, etc, that were long shots to make a real impact for the future.  So he made a minor investment in Andre Rison and Rison scored a 54 yard touchdown on the Packer's second offensive play to give them the early lead in SuperBowl 31.

Look at the bottom of the roster for the conference championship game: Marwin Evans, Josh Hawkins, Jordan Tripp.  And those guys were all active.  Then look at the inactives for the game and there are names like: Max McCaffrey, Herb Waters, Joe Kerridge, James Starks, Christian Ringo.  To think that Thompson couldn't have given up on any of those players two months ago (exception for the guys who weren't here two months ago like McCaffery) and taken a chance on a veteran that could have potentially helped a total sh*t cornerback group is completely ridiculous. 

GM for the future when the team isn't very good.  But when the team is pretty good, sometimes the GM has to GM for the present.

, "the futures uncertain and the end is always near" The Doors

Speaking of Raji. Is it possible that he walks through the door or is he finished?

I'd be curious to know if he even fits thru the door.

Lacy still did, even after all the China food.

Lacy started the year strong before the ankle knocked him out.

I really hope Eddie gets some weight off and keeps it off. I'd freaking love watching a season of Eddie and Ty splitting carries. Lord have mercy that would be special. 

I don't think Eddie would have an issue splitting carries. But we'll find out on March 9. 

"Have an issue?"  Say what?  Eddie is in no position to be a prima Donna, even if he was one, which he isn't.

Elliot Wolf still safely in Green Bay.  According to Adam Schefter Colts hire Chris Ballard. 

Pistol GB posted:

"Have an issue?"  Say what?  Eddie is in no position to be a prima Donna, even if he was one, which he isn't.

Just takes one GM to pay him and tell him he's the feature back. Not about Eddie. 

"Free Agency only requires 1 team to do something stupid to drive the market."

- Bill Polian pic.twitter.com/jgCRl1XSCq

— Mike & Mike (@MikeAndMike) January 4, 2017

Yep. And if there's one thing the NFL GM pool isn't lacking. It's stupid. 

The offense needs speed. I think that they can add some to the RB position. I'm hopeful that Davis can develop some. 

The defense needs speed. They need to buy and draft it. 

Hungry5 posted:

"Free Agency only requires 1 team to do something stupid to drive the market."

- Bill Polian pic.twitter.com/jgCRl1XSCq

— Mike & Mike (@MikeAndMike) January 4, 2017

Is Bill holding up his index finger to signify the number of Super Bowl victories he won in his 12 or 13 seasons as GM with Peyton Manning at QB?

You can rip on Polian all you want about "only" 1 Super Bowl win but his teams were almost always highly competitive & in the mix every single year.

Kinda like the Steelers, Patriots & Packers....always in the conversation.

Polian - 3 SB appearances w/BUF; NFCCG w/CAR (in their 2nd yr); 2 SB appearances w/1 Title in IND.