This Packers Offense...

Having Finley, and really that arsenal on offense, was intense. He was a top 5 TE and ascending. But man, Jordy Nelson was our #4 receiver! 5 if you count Finley. While Rodgers was good in those early years, he really didn't make his mark until the playoff push in 10'
We were spoiled. TT hit a good one on a 20 year old loudmouth meathead sophomore from Texas. He took a chance on Jmike
Those are the teams that win titles, ascending young teams. They all fall apart. The patriots are the exception, not the rule.

"This Packers Offense" is really rather offensive. Hope they can get whatever the fuq is wrong fixed soon. If not, we may not even make the playoffs at this rate.

We'll make the playoffs. I'm on record as to saying this feels like 10'. I'm not calling for a Super Bowl, but this team needs loves adversity. Their going to get the us against the world mantality, and make some noise.

I can't take much more of this. I can't. GB won that SB without Finley. Finley was never better than 2009. He and Blake got caught up in YOTTO and personal web sites devoted to the propaganda of genuine mediocrity and promise. They went full Twitter on Rodgers leadership. Finley was a dumbass with no work ethic. He surrounded himself with dicks. 

 

I remember the TD he caught against the Browns in 2013 thinking, "There he ****ing is". He left that game on a stretcher and that was that. 

 

Finley got in his own way. He did. He wasted his own best years. 

 

And its not ascending young teams that win titles. New England had one of the oldest rosters in football in 2001 with starters that averaged 28 years old. And Tom Brady took that number way down when he replaced Drew. Tuck rule aside....

 

I cant take much more of the over emotional bull**** being tossed around right now. Grow some stones or follow tennis. This team has things to work out but be on point and stop acting like uniformed Viking fans. It's embarrassing. 

While we're here. Billy B is going to draft Christian McCaffery regardless of what the price is. That's his guy like there's never been a Billy B guy before. He's a more talented version of Welker, Edelman, and Amendola combined. 

Chili, I agree to an extent, in my next post you'll see how I mention adversity. I think, had Barnett and Finley both not gotten hurt in 10,' we don't win the Lombardi. They took on an us against the world mantality, the whole team bought in.
However, denying Finleys talent is a mistake. You can compare me all day to a queens fan, I don't hang my hat as a better fan or person than another person because I'm a fan of the packers. It's typically geography and family members that determine loyalty, not a greater moral compass.

I'd take Westerkamp out of Nebraska over McCaffrey all day.

So Barnett and Finley's injuries drove the team to victory even though Desmond Bishop was better and both guys bitched liked kids about not being in the SB photo. 

 

 Westerkamp is a class act. 

Dammit not tonight Kiel. I'm in no mood. I cant take the dumb. And I know how much you like the higher educational pass catcher. 

Since when has character issues ever had anything, to do with who the patriots draft? I didn't call him a saint. I said he seemed more the role of someone the patriots would draft than Mccaffery

When you draft a triple homicide killer I'd think red flags matter. Maybe that's just me. 

 

**** it everyone. I'm done here. Too much stupid. I can't take anymore. 

 

A lot of you dumb****s have no idea what your talking about. Just a bunch of pantspissing morons that make a great site unreadable. Trophies, Excalibur, Bubbleboy, SteveLuke, Troy, WolfPack, And so many others that have **** their pants that I'm forgetting. You pee the site then play the "oh so if I question the Packers" card. Follow someone else. You are not Packer fans. You are overly emotional idiots lacking historical perspective. 

 

To everyone that's been nails and on point with the good and bad. It's been a great 5 years. There's a lot of really good football people here. No need to name all. You get it. 

 

This is is a great team with a great history. 

 

Carry on and Im out. 

 

Nelson, but he's out for the year.

 

 

 

 

A dynamic TE would be great, but this offense has pin-ball like without a dynamic TE when they were able to to stress the defense with their WRs. Last year it was Nelson, Cobb, and an emerging Adams. Maybe, just maybe they get some mojo working again with Cobb, Jones, Adams, and Monty... IF, they go with the hot hand and take what the defenses give them.

 

Lots of 2-high? Run the ****ing ball.

1-high press? Work the middle with short crossing routes.

 

But most of all the WR need to catch the ball.

 

 

 

 

Potential was there but he lacked consistency. His Packer career was more about unrealized potential than anything.

 

I'd love to have a dynamic and elite player at the position, but all the Packers really need is a legitimate TE that the defenses have to account for. You need to do a lot better in the third round than TT did.

quote:

I wish Janis was 25lbs heavier. He'd be an interesting guy at TE.

Serious question: how much of his speed would he lose if he put on an extra 25 pounds of muscle?

So you want another TE like Finley or Gronk?  That just sounds too easy to make sense.

Would any of the 25 pounds be added between the ears?  Seems like that is where he is a bit light.

Maybe I am the only guy on this board who thinks this; but, I do not think he's all that dumb.  He'll get it. 

I find hard to believe tht anyone is too dumb after a couple of years in the system to remember how to line up properly,run routes properly and adjust to the defense on the fly. Yet that  is what we are led to believe.  Why, what other reasons can there be. Guys all over the league from small schools do it, although Monty is from a big school he seems to do it.  

Exactly.  This isn't college, where the QB waits for the WR to get open and then throws the ball. The Adams route that led to the interception in the Bears game is a perfect example; the ball is thrown to where the WR is supposed to be, not where he is.  That's why Rodgers keeps harping on the WRs and he being on the same page as far as depth, etc.

 

Janis has great talent to run with the ball after the catch, as shown by his run after the catch against the Chargers---and even his KR returns.  However, both big catches he had in the Chargers game were made after the play broke down and Rodgers scrambled--that's when we had the college equivalent of "throw to the open guy".  You can't run an offense on second reaction scramble.

 

It should be concerning that after a year and a half in the system and two training camps, Janis still can't run the Packers route tree with the precision needed to get more playing time.  It speaks to the "between the ears" part you highlight.

100% agree. I made the same comment after the interception. That is precisely why Janis isn't playing a big role. If any old tall speedster could come in and play receiver in this offense then they wouldn't have signed James Jones. It's the same reason so many "intriguing athletes" have come and gone from the Packers WR depth chart without hardly sniffing the field. It's the same reason people say "WRs don't contribute until year 3 in this offense". Even Adams, for all his physical talent, isn't there yet. When you give a young player, who doesn't know what he's doing, a chance like that then you run the risk of throwing an INT...and in a tight game it makes a big difference.

See what you people ™ have done?

 

If I had any other hobbies, I'd join chilli in leaving.

 

Being consistently negative does wear on people---we could add about 10 names to that list as well.

 

Hank, you're being warned---I don't want any more whining. 

Face it Blair, you're a freaking x4 addict, just like I am.   I have hobbies and I am still hooked.   FK! 

I will thank Activision for Black Ops 3. It has provided a hell of a lot of entertainment in an otherwise pretty bleak month.

 

Janis! has been pretty darn good on ST's. He's had multiple games now with some terrific returns. And he's done well as the gunner. Hell if you end up with a solid return man and good ST's player out of a 7th round pick? That's pretty decent return on your money.

 

Wonderlic Scores. For what it's worth. 20 is considered average. 

 

http://www.packershome.com/for...-current-roster.aspx

 

 

Janis 32 (23 first test)

Abbrederis 32

Jordy Nelson 28

James Jones 9

Quarless 17

Finley 9

Jennings 18

 

I couldn't find Cobb's or Montgomery's. 

 

Janis should be smart enough in terms of "book smarts" 

 

No "I'm Leaving" thread? 

The Wonderlic is all math and verbal skills....it does not measure the ability to read visual-spatial situations, which it appears is what our receivers are having difficulty with. 

RIP Chilli

Yeah, I have said this too before.  The entire offense seems "snakebit" or cursed for some reason.  Up until the SD game all was "well & good".  The offense did alright, but the defense stunk against a red-hot Rivers.  

 

Having a better player at TE doesn't help Adams to catch the ball or Cobb or Jones.  And while I agree with a potential internal issue I have a difficult time thinking his teammates are po'd at AR to the point they would play sloppy and uninspired.  Their jobs are 100% related to performance. 

 

In the Detroit game Rodgers was sacked bad and his entire O-Line came over to help him get up.  We see shots of Rodgers sitting and talking with Adams and other teammates.  Their appears to be no animosity then.

 

I brought up this last year during their poor start and I am asking myself this question again:  Are we seeing the beginning of the end for Mike McCarthy?  

 

All good things come to pass.  He has been in GB for 10 seasons.  Quite a long time for the NFL.  Mike Shanahan lasted 13 years in Denver...about 3-4 years too long if you ask Bronco fans.   Belichick, Coughlin and McCarthy are the three longest tenured HCs with the same team.  Coughlin seems to be hanging on just like MM.  Although this season the NYGs are headed up and the Packers are sliding back.  Possible that the team is suffering from a NFCCG hangover from their gut-wrenching loss to Seattle and the players hold MM accountable.   So maybe it could be the Packers players are now just tuning out MM's message?  We hear from ex-players and coaches that after awhile, a coach's style just becomes stale.  Nobody's fault, just does.  Time to move and turn the page.

 

Still even with a stale strategy you would think that a player with Rodgers's proven ability and record, could overcome the doldrums and make plays.

 

The other thing I think is possible is that Aaron Rodgers has an injury to his throwing shoulder.  And this injury occurred back in the SD game.  I have watched some of his passes since then and his throwing motion doesn't seem as consistently strong and his "over-the-top" motion has become more side-arm.  I saw it in the Panthers game and the Lions game.  Even my daughter saw it and mentioned it first.  It would explain why many of his throws have been falling well-short or off target high. 

 

In any case, and it may be a collective group of reasons, the Packers have a feeling about them of despair and bad luck.  I thought maybe it was gone after the win over the Vikings.  But not so.  Just hoping they can mount a decent win over Detroit, or else this season is toast.

 

 

 

 

 

Before Jordy injury - (bold = mismatches in Packers favor)

GB     CB (opposing corner backs)

1    >    1  Jordy > than most #1 cb

2    >    2  Cobb > than most #2 cb

3    >    3  Adam > than most #3 cb

4    >    4  Jones > than most #4 cb

5    >    5  ETC

 

After Jordy injury

GB     CB (opposing corner backs)

2    <    1  Cobb < than most #1 cb

3    <    2  Adams < than most #2 cb

4    >    3  Ty > than most #3 cb

5    >    4  Jones > than most #4 cb

6    >    5  ETC

 

After Monty injury  (no postitive matchups for packers)

GB     CB (opposing corner backs)

2    <    1  Cobb < than most #1 cb

3    <    2  Adams < than most #2 cb

4    <    3  Jones < than most #3 cb

5    <    4 

6    <    5 

 

So...  We had a great #1 receiver and a bunch of very good possession type #2 and #3 receivers.   This group won matchups all of the time because we had positive mismatches across the board which made open receivers for Rodgers to find.

But not without Jordy and Monty, our receivers do not matchup well against other teams cornerbacks and safeties anymore.  NO ONE is open for Rodgers, and predictably he struggles finding anyone to throw the ball to.

 

It's really as simple as that, but you go ahead and add the

1) Oline injuries

2) Quarless injury

3) Offensive position coaches all moving up a spot

 

Now we have enough issues to take a top 5 offense and turn it into a 25th ranked offense.

 

Richard Rodgers takes a bunch of **** on this board and it is mostly deserved.  But I read that he spent most of the off season strengthening his lower body so that he could block better.   This didn't seem to help him block any better and worst than that is it seemed to really slow him down too.  RR looks like how I feel when I'm trying to run in a bad dream,  all clumsy and slow, like he just learned how to run a few months ago after taking a big bong hit of salvia.

That is what happened to Dickrod. 

 

The Quarless injury is an x factor.  Q can block decently, has decent speed for a TE and can catch a ball fairly consistently too.  Any other year and we would barely miss losing Q, but in a year where we lost Jordy, it makes a huge difference.  Now we only have TEs who can run or block, but not both. 

 

Quarless coming back will make this offense much better

Monty coming back will make this offense much better.

Jordy coming back in 2016 will make this offense great again.

 

That is my 2 cents about this offense and I don't claim to know a whole lot about football x's and o's, however I'm an excellent troubleshooter. 

And the troubleshooter in me says that the offense sucks because of losing Jordy and then losing Quarless, and further more by losing Monty and having a banged up Adams.

 

PS - If every team could draft a Gronk, all 32 teams would have a Gronk.  Too bad NE is the only team who knows where to find a Gronk Tree.

 

I agree GBP1. I think Aaron's shoulder is hurting him more than he lets on. But there's more to our woes than that.

 

One issue that doesn't get talked about too much here is the change in position coaches from last year. I think that Alex Van Pelt is in over his head. To be the coach of both the receivers AND the quarterbacks is unheard of in today's NFL, yet here he is. He's trying to handle two positions and is failing at both.

 

The original premise of this thread was about the lack of a legitimate tight end and I put the blame for that on TT. During last spring's draft, I was expecting a MLB but would have been happy with a TE. Thompson is too inflexible to change from his ideology of drafting the best player available. That's great when you're trying to build a team in the first place, but when you're trying to kick it over the top and win Super Bowls, then you need to address the team's deficiencies, and Thompson isn't doing that. I think that with TT, we'll forever be a really good team, but we won't win another SB. He's just not putting enough quality players around Rodgers.

 

Of course, nothing is going to help us if the receivers don't catch the ball when it's in their hands. I've never seen anything like Adams' performance last week. I'll assume that was a glitch.

I absolutely agree with your AR injury analysis.   Just one more reason that the offense's funk is so extra funky.

 

I do not agree with the rest of your post at all.  This is not the end of MM and I don't blame him or TT for this teams issues.  The problems are almost entirely injury related and possibly position coaching.  Bad luck and bad timing can wreck any year, and that is not on MM or TT.

And two huge factors:  Game planning and Play calling.

 

Game planning because the passing offense (formations, personnel packages, route concepts) is bereft of any innovation and change to speak of from week to week in spite of the steady decline in production and teams' success in locking down the receivers.

 

Play calling because of the lack of imagination in the passing game (Exhibit A being the plays run from the 8 in the final series against Chicago), and terrible situational playcalling (not continuing to RTFB on Thursday night given the conditions, the anemic passing game, and the success Lacy and Starks were having) which ranks as bad as I've seen it in McCarthy's tenure.

 

These are recurring problems, not one shots. And because Clements, Edgar, Van Pelt and Aaron Rodgers are still producing this hot pile of stink it is ultimately on MM to fix it in both the immediate future and beyond.

The thing I like about Times 4 is that there isn't just chiding and sarcasm directed richly deserved fellow forum members, but there is also some very astute analysis about the Packers problems. A lot of boards just complain. Here, I'm seeing concrete suggestions on steps that can be taken by MM and TT, both immediately and long term.

 

I sure hope they're paying attention to us and taking heed.

I think they're sticking to the plan of developing Clements over the next four years.

Walsh s comments and everyone else's about 10 years being too long refers to a pre-FA era where much of the roster held intact for almost 10 years.  How much of the SB45 team is still on the roster only 5 years later?  We're the only ones still around since 2006.

These kids now days have shorter attention spans.

You say something?