Great read Cuqui. Thanks.
Essentially this offense is transitioning to the type of offense that stymied this team over the past few years. Difference being your "game manager" QB is Aaron Rodgers. Add in they are using Cobb effectively out of the backfield again with a wonderful combo at RB. This oline isn't built like the 9ers line but it has more than enough talent to focus and be effective in the run game. In fact, it's probably advisable considering the tackle play this year. The return of Monty isn't going to open up the passing game more, it's going to open up the run game. You are essentially adding another Cobb into the backfield and short passing game. Monty was never meant to be the deep threat.
Now you have Monty, Cobb, Starks and Lacy absolutely making defenses committing up front. We may actually see Mother****er Jones shake free again like he was earlier in the season.
Adams is worthless this year. I mean to the point of were you have to wonder if this kid is going to progress at all. Scheme didn't help but I think you're wasting valuable offensive potential putting him on the field at this point. Maybe, hopefully, wishing on a ****ing star Janis will put it together enough to pull out a play or two consistently for this stretch. Just enough to be a distraction. And maybe Abby the Concussed can use that superb route running to help keep Dik SlowRod a little cleaner going down the seam.
This team is going to win playing a weird hybrid of what the Seacocks are running. The Packers defense isn't quite on par but it has been playing solidly this year when they aren't left on the field the whole damn game. The defense is playing well enough to be a compliment to a relatively super charged run first type of offense.
Good post, Henry.
Would love to see this offense transition the rest of this season to a relatively super charged run first mode. Accentuates team strengths while minimizing reliance on team weaknesses.
I think McCarthy has it in him to first, see this, and second, do this. The key is Eddie who among all running backs in GB in MM's tenure stands alone in being able to simultaneously lift his team's swagger while sucking it out of the opponent. Mike has never been a run game guy but I think it is that part of Lacy's game that really appeals to him.
Believe our superstar quarterback won't like all this too much. I found it illuminating that 12 talked at some length last night about how MM's game plan and calls basically eliminated a lot of the plays where Rodgers had a lot of freedom to change the plays and then also toggle between run and pass on any given one. More structure last evening from Mike.
When I look back at some of the games GB lost it is just mind boggling how and when the run game was just ****canned for run of the mill pass plays using mostly run of the mill receivers. The home loss to Chicago especially.
I'll never know for sure but am fairly certain that was 12 and his fully consultative and complicit play caller putting everything on Rodgers' shoulders, the way he likes it. There have been rumblings for years about Mike and Aaron butting heads to some degree, and if you listen to Wilde's click bait podcast from yesterday it is really incredible how he tries to paint Rodgers and Clements as these tortured soulmates who've both been back stabbed by McCarthy taking back the playcalling. (Of course this was taped before the game, which showed that MM, while not perfect, is infinitely better than the 12-Clements brain trust.)
Look, Rodgers is great but also gets off on pulling all the strings out there too. I think the Benoit article really nails it in that Rodgers needs a leash.
Anyhow it will be by turns fascinating and execrable to watch the media and others like we here on the board try to sift through all this junk. I plead guilty, your Honor.
GB and SEA playing similar offenses? Never saw that coming but if you look at how the individual parts compare, and then how they come together...yeah. I can see that. Dynamic Q, bruising RB, solid and sometimes great OL, mediocre WR corps, TE once in a while. SEA seems a little further down the same road but we got 3 more weeks to get it into high gear. Should be a good test at OAK.
It's not the intended path (see Rodgers comments) but it's what works right now. I don't see how MM wouldn't/couldn't embrace the style and at minimum hope it creates opportunities in the passing game. There has to be a genuine commitment to the players that are producing and their skillsets. Right now, Cobb is ten times better coming out the backfield or on bubble screens. He isn't getting free when he doesn't have other receivers clearing off defenders.
Rodgers saying it's execution and not play calling is like him saying "Play calling, so easy even a caveman can do it". So, why did the execution suddenly get better yesterday? After weeks, like since week 4, of being very inconsistent.
No ****, H5. Covering his bud's ass.
Seems to me it's easier to execute when you're running stuff out of more than one stale formation, when you're running patterns designed to have receivers create holes for other receivers, when you're calling plays out of unscouted looks that haven't been seen all year, yadda yadda yadda.
Rodgers needs to shut it. The offense did a lot better and against a pretty good defense. That isn't execution only.
Not just covering Clements, but his own ego. Lots of ego to go around.
McCarthy's ego in admitting he made a mistake in giving Clements the keys.
AR's ego to admit the play calling makes him go.
This is a big-boy league.
Guys relax, he's not going to throw the O Coord under the bus and McCarthy wouldn't either. The think the O line blocked well and our RB ran with a purpose, ie execution. They just need to remove that fricken toss to Lacy and they are all set.
Das Boot kicks again... and it was about time.
BTW, Henry, "Abby the Concussed" sounds like something out of a Monty Python movie!
Henry, your statement about Adams is stark, but it's the truth. It can't be about injury anymore. Don't know what's happened to him, but he needs to re-boot in the off-season.
Rodgers has said he needs to be coached. MM tightening the reins on him is coaching. Clements is Rodgers' buddy and he'd never criticize Clements openly.
MM yesterday was playing chess. Clements had been playing checkers.
Back to the highlight reel of 2009...The Packers had the defensive MVP and the second rated defense in the league and finished 11-5 in second place in the north. We are going to finish better than that this year with less talent. He was fast and hell to bring down, but you guys are remembering a different Finley than I remember. The Finley I remember was not very bright, a poor route runner with so so hands.
Richard Rodgers will catch more balls this year than Finley did in 2009....yes he will average 9 to 10 yards a catch versus 12.5, but I like him.
http://bleacherreport.com/arti...opped-passes-problem
Great article Cuqui, and good posts following it by everyone. McCarthy gets huge props today, he called a great game. The running attack was sick, and shortening up the passing game: perfect. Play who you got. Good job Mike!
All of which makes his commitment to keep trotting Dudvante out there all the more complexing. Enough is enough, the guy needs to be on the pine already.
Not to sound like a broken record, but changing out that one player would be a big step towards rejuvenating the passing game and change, it appears, comes slow at 1265.
It seems like coaching does matter.
Hungry5 posted:Not just covering Clements, but his own ego. Lots of ego to go around.
McCarthy's ego in admitting he made a mistake in giving Clements the keys.
AR's ego to admit the play calling makes him go.
This is a big-boy league.
In retrospect everything is clear.
Yoko had wormed her way into the recording studio causing chaos and strife amongst the formerly close knit musicians.
Yoko gets Das Boot...there is no room for you in the studio during live sessions...Stoopy Face is back on the mixing board orchestrating his magic.
2010 was our Sgt. Peppers...but we still have a kick ass White Album in us, before we Let it Be.
-----
Recording the White Album:
During these sessions, arguments broke out among the Beatles, and witnesses in the studio saw band members quarrel over creative differences. The feuds intensified when Lennon's new partner, Yoko Ono, started attending the sessions.
After a series of problems, including producer George Martintaking a sudden leave of absence and engineer Geoff Emerick quitting, Ringo Starr left the band briefly in August. The same tensions continued throughout the following year, leading to the eventual break-up of the Beatles in April 1970.
50k Club posted:Henry, your statement about Adams is stark, but it's the truth. It can't be about injury anymore. Don't know what's happened to him, but he needs to re-boot in the off-season.
It is beyond any sophomore slump, injury or preparation issue. His fundamentals are shot. "Re-boot" is a good way to put it. He needs to start all over. He needs training camp, not game time.
Can I add one more thing? His on-field attitude sucks.
Be it diva-ing for holding calls (and getting penalized himself as a result) or not busting his ass even on plays where he's targeted. Show some effort for crying out loud.
Randall Cobb has had a tough season too but just keeps grinding. Fighting his way through a slump.
Question, Janus gets great releases on punts to cover as well as any receiver in a long time in Green Bay why is he not doing the same in our offense?
Does Adams start this week in Oakland? Being a California boy, he'll undoubtedly have family there. Could this motivate him to have a great game finally?
RatPack posted:Question, Janus gets great releases on punts to cover as well as any receiver in a long time in Green Bay why is he not doing the same in our offense?
He can get run out of bounds on ST and still make a play. He apparently can get ridden out of bounds and off a route still.
Like Henry said, it is the mental part of the game for Janis. As the gunner he doesn't have to think, doesn't have to react to the D pre-snap movements or AR's nitro, nitro calls.
No thinking needed at gunner. Just go. It's different when you have to think. I think.
At this point I'm wondering if they've given up on his being part of the rotation on offense. Not even one snap Sunday.
Some posters and reporters seem satisfied with him exclusively at ST's. Maybe they are right.
[EDIT: You beat me to it H5.]
Those were thoughts I thought about. Thank you.
As a gunner, he's also going against some bench scrub, not one of the opposing D's top 2 or 3 CB's...on a route!
Henry posted:We may actually see Mother****er Jones shake free again like he was earlier in the season.
+1 for the Mother****er Jones Reference.
Hungry5 posted:Like Henry said, it is the mental part of the game for Janis. As the gunner he doesn't have to think, doesn't have to react to the D pre-snap movements or AR's nitro, nitro calls.
I would amend this by adding that 83! has a lot to learn and rep as far as the technique of the WR craft is concerned. From beating press coverage at the line to making sharp cuts to selling one thing and doing another, and so forth. Let alone to adjusting to audibles or coverage on the fly post-snap. One of my college coaches told me that if you're thinking too much instead of reacting as you've been drilled, the first thing you lose is technique. Suspect this is happening to him also.
In HS he was a RB and at his D2 school he either went deep and outran coverage or ran short crossers and outran coverage. Never really learned how to play the position from a technique perspective let alone all the mental processing that this offense requires. He is still incredibly raw.
The Packers have two of the best technicians I've seen play WR in Jordy and Abbrederis. Janis! should really train with them in the off-season under adult supervision to master WR skills.
Henry posted:It's not the intended path (see Rodgers comments) but it's what works right now. I don't see how MM wouldn't/couldn't embrace the style and at minimum hope it creates opportunities in the passing game. There has to be a genuine commitment to the players that are producing and their skillsets. Right now, Cobb is ten times better coming out the backfield or on bubble screens. He isn't getting free when he doesn't have other receivers clearing off defenders.
They had a poor stretch in 2nd and 3rd quarters where they seemed forget about pounding the ball. Dallas has a great drive and gets back in the game. Cobb out of the backfield can be a vg set but imo McCarthy should forget the cute stuff and realize the only chance this offense has in a playoff game is ground and pound. I also didn't understand his tendency on 3rd downs to line up with an empty backfield. If you want your run game to set up play action, you need to show to the defense the threat of a run. Seemed to be very limiting during stretches last night.
Pistol GB posted:No thinking needed at gunner. Just go. It's different when you have to think. I think.
At this point I'm wondering if they've given up on his being part of the rotation on offense. Not even one snap Sunday.
Some posters and reporters seem satisfied with him exclusively at ST's. Maybe they are right.
[EDIT: You beat me to it H5.]
He made 3 impact plays on special teams on Sunday, tackling the return man for no return yardage. That may have saved 30-40 yards of field position, at a minimum. Moreover, he's consistently done that in many games as a gunner. I'll take that from a 7th round pick any day.
I think people are unrealistic to think a guy that played D2 isn't going to have some trouble adjusting to the NFL. If Adams and Montgomery were either playing adequately or healthy, we wouldn't be talking about needing to play Janis at WR. You expect 2nd and 3rd round guys to be at least average NFL WRs, not 7th rounders. Here's an interesting comparison of another recent Packer WR drafted in the 7th round from a smaller school. Keep in mind this player had very little value on special teams. It took him until his 4th year to develop into a competent NFL WR.
Year 1: 3 catches, 31 yards, 1 TD
Year 2: 21 catches, 322 yards, 1 TD
Year 3: 13 catches, 167 yards, 1 TD
Year 4: 70 catches, 1064 yards, 9 TDs
These were Donald Driver's stats. Give Janis some time. He may never be even a poor man's version of Driver, but given the effort he shows on special teams and the fact his Wonderlic scores suggest he's a pretty smart guy, I think it's too early to write him off.
That's it, Cuqui. I have really questioned the dual role of Alex Van Pelt as the QB/WR coach. MM has essentially admitted his mistake with the over-promotion of Clements. IMO, he made a similar mistake with putting a journeyman back-up QB as the instructor for young WRs. Under his tutelage, Adams has regressed. Janis has not developed. Have to wonder how much Montgomery/Abbrederis will learn from Van Pelt.
Hungry5 posted:McCarthy's ego in admitting he made a mistake in giving Clements the keys.
Agree. And while McCarthy has proven to have the golden touch as a very good play-caller, this was more than just play-calling. McCarthy has also shown stubbornness with his insistence that the offensive struggles have not been scheme related: "we do what we do". It was apparent in the Dallas game that new wrinkles in the "scheme" had been installed during the week...middle screens, fullback lead draws, using Cobb in more ways than imaginable, and several textbook examples of wham blocks. Did anybody notice some of the blocks made by our FB and even DickRod( I'm not kidding) ?? This plays wonderfully into the type of guards we have and especially to Tretters mobility....and was done against a good defense too.
Big props to Coach McCarthy for doing what the best coaches do - adapt. His play-calling was a breath of fresh air and his scheme adaptations were something that should give every Packer fan hope.
x4 is outdoing itself today. IMO so many good, thoughtful posts showing up in multiple threads.
Lots of "bunch" formations around here the last couple months too though that's more about knickers than WR's.
Montgomery seemed to be coming along fine until he turned the ankle.
Jordy wasn't nails in his second year either. Further along than whitey jr. but it took him more than a couple years to become what he was the last couple years.
MichiganPacker posted: Give Janis some time. He may never be even a poor man's version of Driver, but given the effort he shows on special teams and the fact his Wonderlic scores suggest he's a pretty smart guy, I think it's too early to write him off.
He scored a 15. That's not high.
By comparison, Terry Bradshaw was a 16 and that was considered rock bottom for a QB, in time when offenses were far less complex.
AR and MM have zero tolerance for mental mistakes, they have both made that abundantly clear. Playing Adams over anyone right now is Exhibit freaking "A" on that. They are giving a visibly useless player minutes over the other guys.
MichiganPacker2 posted:Originally Posted by Esox:Maybe I am the only guy on this board who thinks this; but, I do not think he's all that dumb. He'll get it.
Wonderlic Scores. For what it's worth. 20 is considered average.
http://www.packershome.com/for...-current-roster.aspx
Janis 32 (23 first test)
Abbrederis 32
Jordy Nelson 28
James Jones 9
Quarless 17
Finley 9
Jennings 18
From earlier in the thread. Pistol GB, You say 15.
I don't want to poop in the punch bowl, but I might stir it with a turd shaped spoon just a little.
Lets not forget we were playing a Cassel led Dallas team Sunday. Putrid.
Let's not crown anybody's ass quite yet.
But there is more hope and change here than the muzzy O ever gave us.
Now who can give us some "upside surprise" going forward? That's going to be the straw that really stirs this drink if we are to do any real damage come playoff time.
I kind of like our set-up for the playoffs...harder to game plan a team that just figured out WTF it's doing. How's that for some positive spin?
Who can provide upside surprise in the playoffs?
Ty Mont as Henry already said. He's additive not a Messiah.
Behind door # 3 is the lovely Janice. We'll believe it when we see it... but you can't teach "wheels" and at some point we might have to just let er rip and see what happens.
Thunder and Lightening Lacy/Starks could just keep doing what they are doing and that qualifies as more than good enough., but it probably provides upside surprise for the rest of the team in increased opps for other offense, the cultural benefit to a teams psyche when you start road grading opponents and bennies to the defense in TOP and keeping a lead.
Upside surprise on the defense could be further gelling of the back end and have the ball hawkin really kick in.
D line and LB seem to know their role, prolly won't see upside but won't need it if they keep doing what they do and we get further lock down on the back end.
I'm excited again...like Eddie says....I was moping for a couple of weeks but it made me realize how much I miss it. I'm not worth a damn without football.
