Unreasonably Early Rock Moster

Pennel will stick long-term. Boyd will get cut before he will. 

Agreed. This is Kuhn's last season in Green Bay - gives him a chance to get Rip up to speed and he can get the Packers out of a game at RB if needed. But he'll be a part of the 2015 Packers

With the emphasis on improving special teams, McCarthy's love for extra FB's and TE's on the roster, Kuhn's age, Ripkowski's status as a draft pick, his performance on coverage units against NE, and the weak TE competition, I would think Ripkowski can go ahead and buy a house in Green Bay.

Kuhn, Pennel and Malumba make the roster.

Pretty decent chance Gaston makes the cut as well. TT almost seems to have better luck with DL players he finds on the scrap heap.

In the past, MM has said that each season produces roughly about a 25% turnover of the roster. Typically that should mean 10-12 players.

 

To play a guessing game, I'll say that at least 6 of the 8 draft picks will make the team.

From the UDFA pool, I'll say Gunter has a pretty solid lock.

So that would leave approximately 3-5 veteran players that could get released.

I'm also of the opinion that experience trumps 'upside' the vast majority of the time. That's why guys like Barclay have an immediate edge over someone like Ebbele, or Palmer over Vaughters.

 

My 'wild-card' this year is losing Perillo and/or Abbrederis from concussion issues. That may provide an opportunity for 1-2 additional roster spots.

 

 

       
       


I'm just amazed at how strongly people hold onto Sam Barrington. I watched him again on a recording from Thursday, and he really misses, a lot. He's not unbeatable.

While Neal remains out with injury to his abdomen, we can't really say how well he returns, nor when. He could easily buy the PUP for 8 weeks. Nothing against him, but his status is a big question mark.

As for Barclay, he's coming off the ACL and I wouldn't be surprised to see someone else take his place.

Could be as simple as keeping Pennel, who really did play well on Thursday, over another position player.

I just threw out a way too early guess, really.

Yeah I mean no one has the right answer here, all just speculation. I can't see Barrington getting bounced because he's not really competing with anyone. He's truly the only returning ILB with any kind of experience. Just like with seasons past, they will give the edge to a veteran who has been here until it's obvious the rookie is the starter or an injury happens...that's how guys like Barrington and Des Bishop got their starts in the first place.

The other factor is, who is better than him right now? Jake Ryan does some things better, Nate Palmer is faster, Bradford is bigger probably, but which one of them is a more proven commodity as a regular season ILB? None of them. Same thing with Neal, unless this injury is bad, who takes his spot? Elliot is already entrenched, and Hubbard is still a raw athlete. Neal was a good player off the bench last year for us at OLB, not starting material, but he can play. Do you dump a guy who you know can play just to keep a raw athlete or some very raw rookies?

No way Pennel doesn't make the team. Read JSO story today. They're devising a package with him at DE with Guion and Raji for running plays. Stout.

The current staff has shown a propensity to hold on to ILB they "trust", even though they have visible shortcomings.  I'm not saying Barrington is as bad as the bopsy twins they let go but seeing him "miss a lot" doesn't disqualify him from playing ILB for GB.  We are all collectively waiting for Jake Ryan to develop fast enough to take command on the inside.

Would not be surprised if Barrington isn't on the 53, but a lot needs to be shown to get to that point.

 

 

I also would not be surprised. I'd be stunned. Barrington is a lock to make the 53.

It really is interesting Grave Digger. I meant no ill in using your post as an example either, and I am just guessing by what I've seen... great to bash this stuff around with some of the best fans in football.

 

I'm really glad you brought up Bishop. Barrington, to me, is very similar to Nick Barnett, simply because he is entrenched as the starter, and I feel there is way better talent behind him on the depth chart. I always felt Bishop was our better option back then, and I'm glad we finally got to see him once Barnett went down. I believe Bishop was a big reason we got to and won that SB. Bish had like 8 PDs, 1 INT, 3 FFs, 2 FRs, 3 sacks and a bunch of key tackles to stop drives that year. Play making. That is all I want to see, and I don't care too much who is doing that for us at ILB, as long as we get that.

 

I'm of course a huge Bradford supporter being he is from my alma mater, but I am happy to just have our best players at ILB, regardless of who I prefer or root for as a fan. To me, Jake Ryan won the day last Thursday. A lot has been made about Bradford not making plays or being lost, which, when you review him and his play alone, you can see he missed one tackle, but made other plays, and was covering his assignments. NE's offensive plays were being run away from him for the most part. Many of those went at Ryan, and I was glad to see him finish on those as well as he did.

 

My thing on Carl Bradford is I've seen what he can do to change games, and he did, with regularity at ASU. I believe he would excel with more of a chance, more of a nod of support from this staff to throw him in and see what he can do. Thursday was his first real action in a game setting at ILB, and he far outplayed Barrington.

 

If Sam Barrington started blowing up plays, I'd be all for him. I just don't see a whole lot of that with him, without any bias at all. I like him and his story. But, looking at all of last year, and what we are seeing this year, he leaves me wanting a lot more next to Matthews.

 

Before the hand injury, I was most impressed by Nate Palmer, who I thought was the top performer in practices at ILB. Completely took me by surprise too.

 

No matter, it seems we have great talent lined up fairly deep at ILB, and we will be a better team because of it. May the best man win!

 

YATittle, on Pennel, I had kind of made my list shortly after the draft, and I agree with you. Edited a few players in over others, like Gaston, Goodson and Walker, due to their great performances in practice and in Thursday's game. I neglected Pennel. Part of that was how poorly he performed throughout all of last season, in spite of some really high hopes from me last year for a player of his size and ability. Mike Pennel was remarkably ineffective through all of his time playing last season. He finally looked like he put it all together Thursday night. Will be fun to see if he can blow up opponents more frequently, and show that same motor. I really liked what I saw of him.

 

This brings up another point on how important each and every roster spot is. We have SO much talent to work with, and many find it unthinkable to replace some players we have known to be starters, or proven vets. Barrington and Kuhn come to mind. But, I think this staff will keep only those who are performing really well, when all is said and done. Kuhn may be a casualty on the roster at the expense of a guy like Pennel.

 

Great to see a huge talent increase on this team, especially on D.

 

heyward, I don't get why you would be stunned if Barrington didn't make it. He had 1 sack last season, in a blowout of CHI. He had 1 PD throughout the entire regular season. ZERO FFs. ZERO FRs. ZERO INTs. Don't we want playmakers? Or, do we just want a guy who knows how to get everyone lined up? Hawk did better.

Regarding Kuhn, I didn't think he did well the other night running or blocking. If Rip can be trusted to know the offense--he's already looking good on special teams--I think John will be gone.

By Trophies:

 

I'm really glad you brought up Bishop. Barrington, to me, is very similar to Nick Barnett, simply because he is entrenched as the starter, and I feel there is way better talent behind him on the depth chart. I always felt Bishop was our better option back then, and I'm glad we finally got to see him once Barnett went down. I believe Bishop was a big reason we got to and won that SB.

 

 

 

Herschel just choked on a banana.

I hope in the next three games they give Ryan and Bradford enough chances to see if they can be better than Barrington. I agree with the posters above that Sam is not productive enough to be satisfied with as a starter. Keep the competition going, keep an open mind on that spot.

LOL!

 

ILB is manned by a bunch of mediocre scrubs and rookies.  A big part of that is salary cap allocation and mistakenly paying Jones and Hawk more than they were worth.  Barrington is average but he's consistently average.  Palmer and Bradford?  Two late round guys that didn't wash at OLB and if they ever stick at ILB it will be right along with Barrington's average.  That's the ceiling for those two.  

 

Jake Ryan is realistically the only known commodity at ILB and he's a freaking rookie. 

 

Dial down the homer.  ILB is still the weakest spot on this team by a long shot.  The only thing these guys need to do is provide lane filler, not look like PTSD victims and let Clay do the work when he's rotated in.  

Hey Trophys,

 

Just wanted to chime in that I really liked Bishop as well.  I do not know if I saw a single time he was backed up when he made contact with an RB running the ball.  He always seemed to me to stop the RB in his tracks!  (Reminds me of the pivotal fumble in the SB caused by him and Clay.)

 

I think you under-rate Barnett.  Barnett didn't have the physicality Bishop had, but he had wheels and I am certain he covered more ground than Bishop could and was better at pass defense.  In his prime, I think Barnett was pretty good.

 

As to depth...

 

The observations of Bakh not doing so well sure seemed to cause folks to express concern over OL depth.  And I don't see much depth at ILB either.  I am with Henry on that count.  Depth isn't measured just by number of bodies, but also by their caliber of play (of course).

Somebody mentioned this before regarding Bishop and his being stuck behind Barnett.

 

Bishop simply wasn't good enough to start earlier in his career.  We saw him in the preseason (not counting ST) and in spots on D.  He was way too inconsistent and up and down to take on the starting role.  He became started, by luck/injury, when he was finally ready to do so.  It was good timing.  

 

We currently don't have anyone on the roster who is ready to supplant Barrington - right now.  Capers will go with the devil he knows rather than the devil he doesn't.  Hawk/Jones tenure attests to that.

I totally disagree with you Henry.

 

Clay Matthews might be All-Pro this year at ILB. The other spot is being challenged, and I believe we have good talent there, better than what we saw last year with Barrington. Add to that, with another year under his belt there, even Barrington should improve, if he outright wins the position. Clay will be in his 2nd year working ILB, and all you have to do is look at his offseason physical development to know he is all in at ILB. Of course, he has the versatility to play anywhere, and he can and will bounce outside at will.

 

Who cares if Jake Ryan is a rookie? Everybody wants a "known commodity" at every position on this team, and it is simply a dream-world view. That is not possible in today's NFL. Somehow, we are close to having that on the O side of the ball, but impossible to pull off at every position on an NFL roster.

 

Ryan showed up to play at ILB, and let's see if he can continue to progress. If not, we have plenty of other players there to step in and perform better than the Hawk/Jones duo we had grown accustomed to over the years.

 

The sky is not falling.

 

Even if this group gets roughed up in the first few weeks of the season while they learn the way, I have confidence that by mid-season it will be one of the best ILB units we have had in Green Bay in years.

 

Barrington simply has to perform better, produce better results this season than the 1 PD, 0 INT, 1 sack, 0 FF, 0 FR he totaled in the 2014 regular season.

The reality with all of this is you are going to have certain positions where you are going to be average.  ILB was our achilles and missing on Bradford in the 4th round last year didn't help.  Unless GM's bat 1000, there will be holes and lack of depth at positions on the team.  Schneider is touted as a guru in Seattle but look at the crap shoot they have on their Oline.  They rolled the dice moving Unger and their Oline is our version of ILB but worse.  It was a blitzkrieg all game for Seattle on offense against the Broncos (I hope it looks that unsettled when they play us in Week 2).  Looks like Ryan is a player so he will offer depth this year and starter material in the next year or two.  As long as Clay is healthy, we will be fine there.  Looks like we hit on Rollins, Randall and Gunter which is pretty incredible as CB was as big a worry as ILB with the lost of House and Williams.  I am very impressed by the depth we have on this team overall.

Going back to Nick Barnett/Bishop, I thought Barnett was a very good player in 2007 in Bob Sanders' 4-3 defense at MLB.  By 2010 he wasn't quite at that level playing in a 3-4 and Bishop did turn out to be at the very least a slight upgrade as Bishop played at a borderline Pro-Bowl level on the run to the Super bowl.

 

As for ILB this year, I'm not worried if Matthews is healthy and himself for say 14 games.  If he's out for extended periods of time like he has been in the past, that's where it does become a bigger concern.  Seeing Ryan last week does ease one's mind at least a little bit as he really does look like he's got a little more potential than some of the other guys the Pack has at the ILB position. 

 

 

 

We are a draft & develop team. Bradford is not done. He is in his 2nd year at a relatively new position, one that Dom does not readily hand off to rookie players. To say we "whiffed" on him seems very premature. I know this guy to be an insanely good play maker. Highly instinctive.

 

If anyone listened to McGinn's post game podcast, you will learn a bit about Bradford, and how he is approaching winning the ILB spot. Paraphrasing, he readily admits he was thinking too much last year. This year, he said his main goal on every play is to make certain he is assignment sure. He did that Thursday, and now he says he will be able to move forward to quicker reactions in making plays. A progression, one that I believe Dom Capers wants in developing his starters, in what Dom, himself, has described as a very complicated defense. Cut the guy some slack.

 

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/322046231.html

 

phaedrus, Bish made plays and shut the opponent down. You are right, he never moved backwards, always hit through his target. Punishing player. Just what we need again at ILB this year. I believe we already have one of those in Clay. Who will be the other?

Clay is still not and will not be a starter at ILB (where he spends majority of plays).  He will bounce inside from his OLB spot in certain situations.

 

Never said the sky is falling.  Doesn't change the fact that this is the weakest position on the team.  Guys like Neal on the outside are going to have more impact on the ILB because it allows for flexibility when getting Clay in the middle this year.  

 

There's nothing wrong with Ryan and Barrington, they are what they are.  An adequate starter and a rookie who looks to be a good fit but needs to learn.  

 

Jamari Bradford and Brad Palmer?  Okay.  I don't think the coaching staff is going to keep maintain roster spots for 4 years anymore so a guy can hit his ceiling at average.  Lesson learned, which is why I love Das Boot.

 

The fact that the last half of the season showed MM could really cover up the weaknesses is more impressive than any potential average talent of scrubs.  Jayrone Elliot shouldn't be blowing Bradford out of a starting spot at OLB if he's so prolific.  The guy projected to the inside coming out of the draft and even then he was a project.  He was a fishing pick that TT casts out there.  Some work, some don't.  The trick is knowing when to cut bait and Das Boot seems to have that under control.

 

The only thing that would surprise me about this ILB is if Ryan got cut.  The rest, spin the wheel. 

 

Even Superb Owl teams have weaknesses, that's just the nature of the beast in the salary cap era.  What TT and MM have done to shore it up is what impresses me.

Our opinions of Barrington and Bradford are reversed. I see Barrington as the classic 2 down thumper who is really solid between the tackles, struggles with angles along the perimeter, but overall is an effective  ILB you can with. Especially next to Clay.

I see Bradford as simply a hard working, high energy athlete with no real home. I thought OLB would be a better slot for him where he could use his stout size and strength in run D, and his high energy/motor brawler style as a pass rusher. I don't see the instincts as an ILB, I don't see the fluidity in space, and I don't see him understanding how to locate and attack the football in a split second. I think at best he's a core ST player where his strength and effort will come in handy.

I'm not a believer in Palmer at ILB either. I think he won't be much different at ILB than Brad Jones. His athleticism will be obvious, but I don't think he's stout enough to handle the grind and I don't think he will be able to shed OL and get to the ball in time.

Jake Ryan will lock down the other ILB spot by mid-season and Clay will get back to OLB where he belongs.

And, you know this... how, exactly? He practiced exclusively with the ILBs through all the OTAs and TC practices. Clay Matthews will be one of our starting ILBs this year. I'm sure of it.

He didn't practice exclusively with the ILBs. There was a good deal of switching, probably 50/50 with ILBs and OLBs. Here's a pic of him in OLB individuals:

If they put Matthews at ILB only, they are idiots.  No freaking way he's lining up inside all the time.  Just like the rest of the defensive rotation the "starter" position doesn't mean squat, the packages do.

Ach, of course he will switch back and forth between the two. Don't want to get wrapped up in it. I mentioned he switched in OTA drills back in June.

 

I don't make every practice... I misspoke. My bad.

You bought me dinner first.

I would have loved to see a Barnett/Bishop tandem, but Hawk was TT's guy. Bishop was more stout and far more instinctive than AJHawksucks, but maybe even worse in coverage. Barnett was far faster and better in coverage than AJHawksucks, he could even do a safety drop when needed. I still think that would have been a very complementary tandem.

 

Instead we got four more years of AJHawksucks with Brad Jones thrown in for "good" measure.

I'm guessing there will be a decent dose of Clay in the middle at the beginning of the season.  Partially due to schedule, partially due to Ryan get comfy.  The other factor is Clay isn't going to play 90% of the downs and I'm sure he'll be getting his fair share of rest downs as well.

 

Bradford and Palmer, they make the squad by default.  Unless there's some other super marvel UDFA at ILB one or both stick simply due to attrition.  

I thought it was interesting to see Mulumba taking a few turns at ILB as well

 

Peppers needs fewer OLB snaps( to keep him fresh) and so does Matthews as they move him around the formation. Just as interesting as the ILB rotation is the way the Packers will use Perry, Neal, Mulumba, Elliott at OLB to eat up those extra snaps outside

 

Capers will have lots to choose from in setting his LBs for each week and cross-training them helps when teams try to go up- tempo and lock the Packers defense into a package they want to attack.

 

I thought Bishop was a awesome thumper but holy hell was he bad in coverage.  Barnett, just the opposite.  Call him Maytag as he would wash out at the first sign of a block.  

 

Beyond Bishop before he got hurt, ILB has been a cavalcade of average to horrible.  

Funny thing is, Desmond Bishop had 8 PDs and an INT in 2010. Anyone getting those numbers at ILB/MLB is doing a pretty good job in coverage. He also punched balls out, and recovered fumbles, got sacks and QB hurries. Guy was a gamer.

 

Yeah, you're right, it has been a rough go since his injury took him away.

Simple fact.  Raji plays anywhere close to what he did in 2010, Pennel keeps developing and Guion doesn't go up in smoke, the ILB corp will look better.

 

I should've clarified, he definitely was better in 2010.  He was a pretty complete player.  The first few attempts subbing in previous, brutal.

Boy, that's a big plus there too, Henry. No doubt.

 

I think we really missed having a good, true NT last season, as well as Guion played. He's more of an end in a 3-4. LBs benefit from good line play immensely. I'm hoping we see improvement on our DL this season.

 

Gaston sure looked good too, along with Pennel. Datone made a couple of sacks too. Good to see.

I know it because OLB is the premier position in Capers' 3-4.  You don't take your #1 OLB in a 3-4 (and one of the best in the league) and play him predominantly at ILB.  Clay is still learning ILB and may have bulked up to withstand more pounding there, and he may be spending a lot of time with the ILB's in camp, but he is still first and foremost one of our starting OLB's.  He'll be inside a little more in the beginning of the season because of our lack of experience at the position but even then he still won't be starting there. 

I think you overrate Bradford big time.  Barrington may never be anything more than an average ILB but Bradford has shown nothing that would lead me to believe he’s anything more than a below average ILB.  Not calling you out but if you do have an article or something about Bradford’s on-field performance, I’d like to read it.  I don’t watch tape or practices, so all I have to go on are you guys and whatever articles are posted online.  And so far, nothing I’ve read leads me to believe Bradford is any good.  Which sucks, b/c I was pretty excited about him as a draft pick.