Why Capers must go

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Looked for the other two threads and both were locked and I am not sure why

How long do you think before I lock this one? We're talking about it in practically every thread.

MM will make the decision on Capers. Personally I don't feel Capers is the problem. What do you think Vic Fangio would have done if he was the Packer DC?

"What do you think Vic Fangio would have done if he was the Packer DC?"

In which playoff game? Because this isnt a one time thing. Practically every thread isnt dedicated to the issue. Its ignorant to have it spread out across 15 threads when you can have it in one.

Think maybe everyone needs to let the emotions settle down a notch or two before we start handing out pink slips.

Question for everyone. Is the personnel on this team better suited for a 4-3? Do you move Perry back to a DE and let him put a hand on the ground and the LB's are Clay, Bishop, and Moses? Not sure who the other DE is. Neal?

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Its ignorant to have it spread out across 15 threads when you can have it in one.

How much fricking control do you think the guy has?

Personally I would prefer a hybrid of 4-3 & 3-4 (Which we already do to some extent).

I guess a lot of you forget the 2007 season and our 4-3 defense? We had to have 11 D-Lineman on the roster to keep the rotation fresh. That's what's required in a 4-3

No, this defense is fine as a 3-4 defense. Who was it that thought Bush was a #2 db in the 1st game of the season? If that was Capers, that pretty much should tell you about his decision making. Look, this team has been embarrassed time and time again on defense and quite frankly, Im sick of it. Get someone who is up and coming, can breath fresh life into this defense and move forward. We arent completely void of talent on the defensive side. We have a great group of db's who are all young, 2 great LB's in Matthews and Bishop and two good linemen in Raji and Neal. We have some great depth if we can stay healthy, but Capers inability to adjust and scheme is getting old.

Where is depth more easily acquired? Dl or LB? That should dictate which way you go.

When the players start questioning the coordinator, it's over.

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Originally posted by DH13:

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Its ignorant to have it spread out across 15 threads when you can have it in one.

How much fricking control do you think the guy has?

Its not about control, its a forum where fans express opinions. Shutting them down does no good and I dont think any one persons opinion is more valid than the next. If the thread was all flaming and no legitimate talk, fine, but a legitimate issue shouldnt be shut-down because a mod or someone disagrees with the thread that was started. Not trying to cause ruffles, just expressing.

I think it's time

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Originally posted by vitaflo:
When the players start questioning the coordinator, it's over.

Pretty sure, Woodson and Raji did this last night. Dont have the quotes, but I do recall reading something like this.

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Originally posted by Boris:
Personally I would prefer a hybrid of 4-3 & 3-4 (Which we already do to some extent).

I guess a lot of you forget the 2007 season and our 4-3 defense? We had to have 11 D-Lineman on the roster to keep the rotation fresh. That's what's required in a 4-3

This! Multiple fronts. And don't pass up good defensive players that come back to haunt us because they "don't really fit the 3-4". I did not advocate firing Capers in the thread I started but he seems completed wedded to the 3-4.

Bring on Lovie Smith....

It looked like our OLB's had never seen those option plays before. Even Clay looked confused the few times the ran it to his side.. Walden was absolutely lost, that's on Capers.. No 2nd half adjustment, just more of Walden crashing down leaving the outside wide open while Tram on was man handled by the WR on that side.

Just an embarrassing sight.

When the posters start questioning the moderator, it's over.

If Capers goes I don't think it's beause he's a bad coordinator, the players on this defense just wouldn't maintain their assignments and they've done it all year long. Now if he didn't try and correct this problem then yes he should be fired.

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Originally posted by chickenboy:
When the posters start questioning the moderator, it's over.

True but sometimes questions should be asked by Private message (as I forgot earlier) but more important is that posters should keep the thread on topic and not take it off topic all the time.

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Originally posted by BrainDed:
It looked like our OLB's had never seen those option plays before. Even Clay looked confused the few times the ran it to his side.. Walden was absolutely lost, that's on Capers.. No 2nd half adjustment, just more of Walden crashing down leaving the outside wide open while Tram on was man handled by the WR on that side.

Just an embarrassing sight.

True. When announcers like Aikman are stating, "I don't know what Dom Capers is doing" it's bad. They paid more attention to Joe Webb.

Clay was awful last night, him running to the far outside opened up a lot of those running lanes. I was amazed how badly he was pushed around by a one armed T, granted a great one. Id be OK with a hybrid defense.

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Who was it that thought Bush was a #2 db in the 1st game of the season? If that was Capers, that pretty much should tell you about his decision making.

Hindsight's much easier to play in January then it is in August. At that time, you had a rookie in Hayward with zero experience, House who was ailing with a shoulder, and Shields who at best had a rocky TC and didn't look good in preseason either.

Casey Hayward in week 1 was nothing like he was in week 10 or 11. Shields got a kick in his rear sitting on the sidelines and seriously stepped up his game. And House once again with glimpses of health followed by weeks and weeks of not being able to go.

So no Bush wasn't the answer but let's not pretend Capers had a slew of options either.

FWIW, I don't think Capers is the main problem. Deserves criticism? You bet. Failed to adjust last night? Yes.

But he's also dealing with AJ Hawk, an inconsistent and very inexperienced Moses, journeyman Brd Jones, and oft injured Frank Zombo to deal with a freakish athlete in Kaeperdick. Not to mention Pickett who got hurt early and clearly to me didn't look the same.

As horrid (yes, it was HORRID) as our secondary was in 2011, look at the difference now. Same could be said if TT goes out and gets decent help at ILB and guys like Bishop and Perry heal up.

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Originally posted by vitaflo:
When the players start questioning the coordinator, it's over.

Interesting point.

I'm still in the wait & see mode, instead of having the "Packer Update" knee-jerk reaction. Cooler heads prevail here & like ChiliJon says, "Let's let the emotions settle down a notch or two before we start handing out pink slips."

MM always does self-scouting at the end of the year & if he feels we need a change at DC, he won't be shy about doing so. If it's going to happen it'll be in the next week or 2. Possibly right after the Super Bowl

Not just a player, a team elected captain.

Really bad sign.

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Personally I would prefer a hybrid of 4-3 & 3-4 (Which we already do to some extent).

I thought the hybrid was between the 3-4 and the 2-4-5.

Not that I'm an expert on defensive formations, however.

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MM always does self-scouting

One of those wonderful MM phrases, much like stacking failure which they did last night.

Give Capers two All Pro Inside LBs like the 9ers have and his defense will be dominant. Hawk has regressed since 2010 and Jones is no Bishop. ILB has to be a priority in the offseason, as does cutting Hawk and his enormously bloated salary. He can't play ILB in this scheme and for all of his positive attributes, Jones is a back-up. Draft, sign or trade for a quality ILB to pair with Bishop and this defense improves dramatically. I think people underestimate how critical that position is. Look at how bad the Ravens D was without Ray Lewis...or the Bears without Urlacher. You have to have that rock there in the middle.

Stacking failure?

Yes, it really sucks supporting a team that is constantly having double digit win seasons. Why can't they be more like Jacksonville?!?!?

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Stacking failure?

I was trying to inject a little levity, having a bit of fun with the inverse of MM's "stacking success" turn of phrase. But, consider how the Packers were consistently giving up long conversions on third down, especially with Kaepernick running. That, and the blitz not getting to Kaepernick, leaving him huge holes to run through in the middle.

It happened quite a few times, and was aggravating.

(Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, Boris. You're going to tell me to relax.)

Actually I was going to say you're right except for the "stacking failure" thing

It's tough to call a season a success the day after getting knocked out of the playoffs, but you can't be really upset with reaching the divisional round. Look at all that talent on IR, not many coaches can lead a team through that.

Anyway, I hope MM decides the D needs a new leader.. All of our recent playoff losses are a result of getting dominated on that side of there ball.

Arizona
NY Giants
San Fran.

Here's what I posted in another thread, but it belongs more appropriately here:

I don't know about a total D overhaul, but we may have to go to the 4-3 as a counter the option. We got toasted by running QBs who play the option. The 3-4 is probably a bad fit to stop the read option. Without a fourth big guy out there on the line to help contain the run and not let the QB/back turn the corner, it's up to the LB and they are generally too light to do that against those big, mobile O linemen or they are so focused on getting up-field that they get way out of position. I would have liked to see us go to four down linemen last night. Just having the bodies up there to push back and not get turned. Even if we get another good pass rushing LB, it does nothing to stop the option -- that guy will just get sucked upfield and into those big O linemen.

What that means is the end of Capers. It was really disappointing to read that even a guy like Ponder knew exactly what we were going to do on D in certain situations. Last night was the same; they knew what we were doing. And to hear Capers say playing Webb got us ready for SF was BS. When Webb did run, he burned us. Only when Musgrave, for some odd reason, went away from the option did we have success on D. I think if Musgrave had stuck to the option we probably would have been watching the Queens play last night or it would have been a lot closer.

All in all, go back to the 4-3 as a base and put Perry's hand in the dirt. Use Woody next year like Butler. Clay becomes an outside rusher from the LB spot. Bishop in the middle. Moses or a new guy on the other side. In a 3-4, you could even move Perry to an up position or...?

Heck, you may even see situational defenses: 4-3 against option teams, 3-4 against more traditional teams. [As do the Denver Broncos; a quote is in the postmortem thread.]

Either way, MM has to look really hard at Capers' performance. If they do change, maybe they have the guy on staff, Jags? Greene? But something has to be done to play to our guys' strengths and make us less predictable.

2009 - gave up 51 points (OK 45) and 531 total yards. Kurt Warner throws more TDs than incomplete passes.

2011 - gave up 37 points and 420 total yards.

2012 - gave up 45 points, 579 total yards and 323 rushing yards. Had absolutely no answer for the read option.

So in their last 3 playoff losses they've given up an average of 44 points and 510 yards.

the 4-3? You gotta be ****ting me.

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Originally posted by The GBP Rules:
2009 - gave up 51 points (OK 45) and 531 total yards. Kurt Warner throws more TDs than incomplete passes.

2011 - gave up 37 points and 420 total yards.

2012 - gave up 45 points, 579 total yards and 323 rushing yards. Had absolutely no answer for the read option.

So in their last 3 playoff losses they've given up an average of 44 points and 510 yards.

Hard to defend that.

The D has looked really bad in their last 3 losses. No argument their. But they've given up an average of 17 points per game in their last 5 post season wins going back to 2010.

Can't win them all.

Anyone want to pull up the stats on the 5 playoff wins that Capers has coordinated? If you're only going to pull up the stats on the losses, it's only fair to pull up the stats on the wins. My hunch is that they're pretty good.

But somehow, this D under Capers with all of the injuries in 2010 managed to shut down the Eagles and Bears and completely dominate the Falcons in the playoffs, and then make the stand when they needed to against the Steelers to win the Super Bowl. No credit for any of that? Spoiled much, people?

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Originally posted by Grave Digger:
Anyone want to pull up the stats on the 5 playoff wins that Capers has coordinated? If you're only going to pull up the stats on the losses, it's only fair to pull up the stats on the wins. My hunch is that they're pretty good.

Capers' defense was very good in the 2010 postseason. Capers' defenses were awful in the 2009, 2011 and 2012 postseasons. If that's good enough for you, so be it.

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Originally posted by Grave Digger:
Give Capers two All Pro Inside LBs like the 9ers have and his defense will be dominant. Hawk has regressed since 2010 and Jones is no Bishop. ILB has to be a priority in the offseason, as does cutting Hawk and his enormously bloated salary. He can't play ILB in this scheme and for all of his positive attributes, Jones is a back-up. Draft, sign or trade for a quality ILB to pair with Bishop and this defense improves dramatically. I think people underestimate how critical that position is. Look at how bad the Ravens D was without Ray Lewis...or the Bears without Urlacher. You have to have that rock there in the middle.

This needs repeating.

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Originally posted by jazalin:
Its ignorant to have it spread out across 15 threads when you can have it in one.

And you're obviously the pussy that only shows up when things are down. Duly noted.

So I guess Bishop and Perry being out is a non factor in the Ds performance?