Why Capers must go

quote:

Originally posted by Maynard:
But somehow, this D under Capers with all of the injuries in 2010 managed to shut down the Eagles and Bears and completely dominate the Falcons in the playoffs, and then make the stand when they needed to against the Steelers to win the Super Bowl. No credit for any of that? Spoiled much, people?

Yes, spoiled... and yet realistic. None of those teams played the option. Vick was a runner, but not with the option in use today. Not really apples to apples.

I question if Capers can fill the role and there is plenty of evidence for and against the argument.

There was nothing pretty about this team all season long on offense and defense and yet they made it as far as they did. Injuries, definitely an issue. You could question Clements role as OC or that slug Campen. What lurker troll is going to start the "fire MM" thread?

Make your points, don't cry like a bitch when you get put through the ringer.

Being realistic is fine. I just tire of all of the pulling up of bad results but people seem to forget how bad this defense was before Capers got here and that he helped win a Super Bowl. Sorry, I'll take a Super Bowl win every 7-10 years or so and regular playoff appearances. I look at teams like Jax, Carolina, Tampa, Zona, Seatlle, Cleveland, Detroit, KC, San Diego, etc. and imagine that they would trade places with the Packers in a heartbeat.

quote:

Originally posted by GEEMAN:
So I guess Bishop and Perry being out is a non factor in the Ds performance?

Yes.
There comes a time when, in spite of injuries or any other variables, the team has to play. Although the Packers have been killed by injuries, every team in the league has to adjust to them. We did, the best we could, but the results speak for themselves

quote:

Originally posted by Maynard:
Being realistic is fine. I just tire of all of the pulling up of bad results but people seem to forget how bad this defense was before Capers got here and that he helped win a Super Bowl. Sorry, I'll take a Super Bowl win every 7-10 years or so and regular playoff appearances. I look at teams like Jax, Carolina, Tampa, Zona, Seatlle, Cleveland, Detroit, KC, San Diego, etc. and imagine that they would trade places with the Packers in a heartbeat.

Agreed to a point. I don't want to see the window close on Rodgers and Matthews and even Woodson, if he's back, before they go to the SB again. We are continuing to live in a golden QB age and who knows how long that will continue? I'm not sure we could have won it this year, but I think there would be a lot less b******* about our D today if we hadn't totally laid an egg last night and in that last regular-season game.

quote:

Originally posted by heyward:

quote:

Originally posted by Grave Digger:
Anyone want to pull up the stats on the 5 playoff wins that Capers has coordinated? If you're only going to pull up the stats on the losses, it's only fair to pull up the stats on the wins. My hunch is that they're pretty good.

Capers' defense was very good in the 2010 postseason. Capers' defenses were awful in the 2009, 2011 and 2012 postseasons. If that's good enough for you, so be it.

So you're saying you expected to win 4 straight Super Bowls?

Uh huh.....riiiiiiight & I'm Cyndi Lauper

It's a team game. The offense did the defense no favors with the muffed punt & subsequent INT on overthrow by Rodgers.

You think our defense is a bunch of machines? Memo....They're human

quote:

Originally posted by Maynard:
But somehow, this D under Capers with all of the injuries in 2010 managed to shut down the Eagles and Bears and completely dominate the Falcons in the playoffs, and then make the stand when they needed to against the Steelers to win the Super Bowl. No credit for any of that? Spoiled much, people?

I think he should get a ton of credit for 2010 but it seems like performances like yesterday are more the norm when the bright lights are on.

I just think it may be time for a change. A new voice. Get Ryan's bro. He's got cool hair.

IMO, Capers is to Defense what MM is to Offense ... high risk, high reward.

They have the pieces and there is nobody better in the game.

IMO, Capers defense was better than MM's offense if you look at the season in totality.

The offense was not very good last night either.

BTW, the special teams were not that good either.

quote:

Originally posted by Timmy!:

quote:

Originally posted by GEEMAN:
So I guess Bishop and Perry being out is a non factor in the Ds performance?

Yes.
There comes a time when, in spite of injuries or any other variables, the team has to play. Although the Packers have been killed by injuries, every team in the league has to adjust to them.

The major difference is those other teams don't even make the playoffs. So when you say the team has to play they do during the regular season. It's that play that determines if you get to keep playing after week 17 or just go home.

quote:

Originally posted by Timmy!:
Although the Packers have been killed by injuries, every team in the league has to adjust to them.

Not the 49ers -- with all their preferred 22 starters on the field last night.

I guess my point is that talent matters. Playing the next man up card is fine and dandy for the locker room and the press but missing your best talent does make difference. That being said, I doubt it would have mattered much last night but to suggest booting Capers when he wasn't able to play all his cards is a little short sighted if you ask me.
Agreed, every team has to deal with and make adjustments to account for injuries. How many injuries did SF have to deal with? I think they were darn near full strength and it showed. Just sayin.

I think this team is in a tough spot. They're good enough to keep cranking out 10-win seasons, win the division and get into the playoffs but don't quite have enough to get over the hump, 2010 not withstanding. (And 2010 for so many reasons was a very unique season.) At this level, they will continue to draft in the 25 range of each round. It will be very interesting to see what unfolds this offseason.

Why were they blitzing and playing man coverage vs a QB who can run like this? Just left so many running lanes open

I don't think Capers will be fired, but I think next season will be his make or break year. They have some good in house candidates. Darren Perry and JOe Whitt for one and Trgovac who used to be the DC in Carolina

quote:

IMO, Capers is to Defense what MM is to Offense ... high risk, high reward.

He's to defense what Brett Favre is to quarterbacking. When it's bad, it's ugly bad.

quote:

Originally posted by titmfatied:

quote:

IMO, Capers is to Defense what MM is to Offense ... high risk, high reward.

He's to defense what Brett Favre is to quarterbacking. When it's bad, it's ugly bad.

I've long defended Capers in these kinds of threads, but I'm starting to have some doubts. Is the talent on the field really poor right now (particularly the front seven)? Sure, but it was a Chinese fire drill out there on nearly ever single play last night. The way I look at right now though is that even if they do get rid of Capers, they still need about 3-4 new starters and a few more good rotation/backup players on defense. When the talent level is that poor, it makes you think that maybe the DC just needs to have some lengthy conversations with the HC and GM about philosophy before any moves are made with him. If Mike, Ted and Dom decide that they all still see eye to eye about what the goals are on defense, then they need to go out and replenish the talent on defense and give Dom one last shot to get it right.

I had a bad feeling during the last offseason that one draft was not going to be enough to turn this defense around, and it looks like I was right. Right now, I think they're still at the point where another draft won't do it. They're right about where they were in 2006, when Ted had to take a shot on two UFAs (Pickett and Woodson) on defense to supplement the talent level. Unless they can trade Finley and franchise/trade Jennings, I just don't see there being enough bullets in the draft to fix the front seven and find a new safety. Woodson needs to retire, and Hawk needs to be cut tomorrow, Pickett is nothing more than a nice short yardage rotation guy at this point (akin to Howard Green's old role in 2010), and Wilson is a guy that should be buried at the bottom of a DL's depth chart (at best). Outside of Matthews, the entire LB corps needs to be held up to scrutiny. Bishop is going to be coming off of a major injury, and Perry only showed some flashes as a pass rusher last year (he can't feel like he has a starting job just because he was a 1st round pick), no one needs to feel like they have a job locked down there.

The talent on that side isn't SB quality, but there is no way they are that bad to allow 300+ rushing yards and 600 yards of offense like that. No defense should be that bad

They should get Perry and Bishop back and hopefully Worthy too.

Woodson might be done but McMillan I think might step in and they still have Shields and Hayward and House and Burnett too.

Hope they can add another solid ILB from somewhere to bolster the run D

The team is in a tough spot right now but it's not a finished product either. I can't wait to see how the kids ( Perry, Worthy etc.) develop. The thing is, GB is an O oriented team so the D doesn't have to be elite.

I get why Capers is being questioned. Last nights performance left a lot to be desired but it's not like GB needs to build a killer defense. I just don't think they are THAT far away from becoming an adequate defense.

quote:

Unless they can trade Finley and franchise/trade Jennings

If I'm GM, I would start thinkin along those lines with those 2 ...

Not every dc change reaps benefit. Look at NO this season. Their defense was historically bad after hiring a supposed guru.

quote:

Originally posted by GEEMAN:
The team is in a tough spot right now but it's not a finished product either. I can't wait to see how the kids ( Perry, Worthy etc.) develop. The thing is, GB is an O oriented team so the D doesn't have to be elite.

I get why Capers is being questioned. Last nights performance left a lot to be desired but it's not like GB needs to build a killer defense. I just don't think they are THAT far away from becoming an adequate defense.

Well, they were adequate during the regular season. They were top 13 or so in yards and ppg I believe. They were also an elite D when it comes to sacks. They actually had a good Pass D. Run D left a lot to be desired

it's just, 3 out of the last 4 years we keep seeing this D get absolutely demolished come postseason.

Last year tt gambled on draft day. This year ?FA.

The biggest issue with this defense? They lack disciple. Part of that has to stop with the youth off the defense. As much as I wish we would play a 4-3 to deal with all these running QB's, I think Capers it's fine. If Capers it's fired make a controversial decision and hire Gregg Williams.

quote:

Originally posted by trump:

quote:

Unless they can trade Finley and franchise/trade Jennings

If I'm GM, I would start thinkin along those lines with those 2 ...

They need the ammo for the draft, badly. Rodgers is a big boy who has put up Pro Bowl numbers with far less talent than what he has now. Him and Mike have lots of fun toys right now, but they'll win a lot more games if they shore up the offensive line and commit to running the football. They'll probably also come up successful on a higher percentage of those deep balls they look for so much with a strong rushing attack and OL that'll keep the defense off kilter. This pass happy WR/TE feast, OL/RB/defense famine garbage they've been going with for the past couple years will never beat the teams like the 49ers or Giants, ever.

quote:

Originally posted by Goalline:
They lack disciple.

Flying Spaghetti Monster defense. Noodly appendages everywhere.

Great post pacman

quote:

Packers vs. 49ers Film Study: How Not to Defend the Zone Read
acmepackingcompany.com

The 49ers clearly had watched the tape of the Vikings' attempts at the zone read in Green Bay last week and noted that Matthews did a great job of not over-committing to the quarterback or to the running back; therefore, they ran the play to key on Erik Walden on the other side. continue

Worth the click. I could quote the whole thing.

The first sentence says it all. Walden.

quote:

Originally posted by heyward:
Capers' defense was very good in the 2010 postseason. Capers' defenses were awful in the 2009, 2011 and 2012 postseasons. If that's good enough for you, so be it.

Yeah 5 playoff wins in 4 years...5 dominant performances including an NFC Championship and a Super Bowl win in 4 years. Yeah I'll take that. In 5 postseason games they have shut down guys like Adrian Peterson, Michael Vick, Matt Forte, Michael Turner, and Ben Roethlisberger. If that's not good enough for you then you need to look around the league and see where there's another DC that can boast that resume.

You want to know something funny since everyone is freaking out about the amount of yards the 49ers piled up, Vic Fangio's defense has given up around 1,200 yards in the 49ers last 3 playoff games. How many yards has Capers' D given up in their last 3 playoff games? About 1,200.

I'll give you this - no matter how wrong you are, you won't ever stop thinking you're right. I guess that's something. Now back to watching the Texans and that overrated stiff J.J. Watt.

Great quarterbacks do not need these stables of elite WR/TEs to win games in the NFL. With a good defense in his pocket, a great OL and strong rushing attack, a great QB will get the ball to lesser receivers. If the Packers go out and work to keep this group of receivers intact, when the resources would be better spent on OL and defense, it will say one of two things. They're saying either that they do not believe that Rodgers is truly an elite NFL passer, or that they think this situation where he and his receivers all have to play a perfect game to beat teams like the Giants or 49ers is an acceptable state of affairs going forward. As things stand now, the Packers only have what can be termed a "token" rushing attack due to a weak OL and poor commitment to running the ball. A strong, stout defense will easily shut down that token attack, and play coverage on these receivers all day long. If they're able to also get after the QB (the 49ers weren't able to pressure Rodgers a great deal yesterday), then it turns into a bloodbath (like in the Giants game). The only way the Packers will win in those games in their current configuration is with a perfect, game-for-the-ages type of performance from every one of those receivers and Rodgers.

I man up when I know I'm wrong. I defended AJ Hawk and Tim Tebow for years. I have no problem saying I'm wrong. I was wrong about Joe Thomas vs. Levi Brown. I admit when I'm wrong. I don't admit I'm wrong when I'm not wrong. Just because there are 20 other whiners on this site that are saying the same thing as you doesn't make you right and me wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Henry:
The first sentence says it all. Walden.

Yup

It's a team game. The offense did the defense no favors with the muffed punt & subsequent INT on overthrow by Rodgers.

You think our defense is a bunch of machines? Memo....They're human[/QUOTE]

This made me think about the fact that the Packers have all this success because they have a QB playing out of his mind all the time. As a team, we have to be able to win even when our near perfect QB throws an interception. I think you could venture to say that more of our success has occurred because of our offense (specifically ARod), rather than the D. Nothing wrong with thinking (thinking) about a change in D leadership at this point. Yes, Capers is good, but that doesn't mean he has to be the D-coordinator indefinitely.

What wins fb games? Good blockers and good tacklers. How many of each are currently on this roster?

quote:

Packers-49ers II: More physical mismatches
espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth
by Kevin Seifert

In two games against the Packers this season, the 49ers amassed 509 rushing yards. That’s 100 yards more than Minnesota Vikings tailback Adrian Peterson gained in his two regular-season matchups against the Packers. Meanwhile, the Packers managed 149 rushing yards and largely abandoned the traditional running game in both games against the 49ers. Their running backs took a total of 20 carries in those affairs.

Certainly, the Vikings and 49ers were two of the NFL's most powerful running teams in 2012. We should acknowledge that before overreacting to their Packers' struggles against them. Still, there were other indicators of physical inferiority Saturday night.

49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick gained all but 3 of his 181 rushing yards before contact, according to ESPN Stats & Information. Saturday night, I took that revelation more as an indication that the Packers were too often out of position against him. But it could also be a function of their team speed and/or strength. The 49ers' offensive line deserves credit for opening lanes that Kaepernick could run through untouched. It would be understandable if they were a step behind arguably the NFL's fastest quarterback. But for him to be untouchable? I'm not sure Kaepernick -- or any NFL player -- deserves that much credit.
continue

Ouch, tit! Uncle, uncle!

Most of those untouched yards were because our OLB's were confused by the option plays.. That rests on Dom's shoulders..

I guess part of it was Williams was man handled when Kap broke containment to the right.. But that just compounded the problem, it wasn't the cause.

Serious question - do the Rams have more tallant on defense than the Packers do? Because they managed to shut down San Fran quite nicely not once, but twice. I do believe they run a 4-3 though and maybe that type of defense is better suited to stopping an offense like SF.