2019 Green Bay Defense Expectations

What is my expectations fore Pettines defense this year?  To be physical, to be fast, and to be aggressive.  And I hate to beat this dead horse constantly but they also need to finally be healthy.   One thing I want to see more than anything is the defense to win us a game.  When was the last time the Packers defense made that game winning stand?  By that I mean when was the last time as fans we were watching a game and thought "oh we got this our defense will hold for sure"

So to me if they can be healthy I don't think it is unrealistic for them to be around 10th in the league in defense.

There will be a lot of new faces once again on this D so the second year jump for Pettine's D will not come right away.  I'm not focused so much on what their ranking will be as much as how they are trending in the final quarter of the season.  By then the new faces will have hopefully found the groove.

It would be nice for the defense to force a 4th down on 3rd and long.  Is that too much to expect?

Thunderbird posted:

It would be nice for the defense to force a 4th down on 3rd and long.  Is that too much to expect?

What's that?

This is the most talented defense we've had since 2010, the expectations should be Top 10 in scoring at a minimum. No excuses. We have a strong, experienced front 7 with the exception of Burks, and we have a veteran presence at S (Amos) and CB (Tramon). We have talented players at CB, S, and some quality depth players across the board. Hopefully they brought in upgrades on the staff, so there won't be any coaching excuses anymore. Same is true with the offense honestly. There shouldn't any excuses on offense because we have a veteran QB, OL, WR1, WR2, and TE with athletic and quality depth across the board. Even if Bulaga goes out, we paid Turner good money to be a swing Tackle. This isn't a rebuilding year, expectations should be SB. 

If Tramon is still playing, it is a failure of the coaching staff and front office.

sacks and turnovers.

Tramon will be back at CB where he's adequate. If he's playing it likely means King is hurt and Jackson hasn't taken that next step. Regardless of whether he's playing or not, he's still a strong veteran presence in the CB room. 

Exactly this^^^

I got no issues with Tramon in that locker room. Very important presence in molding these young DB's. 

If Pettine puts the kind of pressure that SHOULD be put on the QB, we should see a huge change in turnovers. QB's should be making throws early, making bad throws, and that should lead to INT's. 

The Packers D has been horrible with creating turnovers. For years. That should change beginning now. 

The Packers D has been horrible in lots of ways for years. 

The weird thing is TO/drive (vs raw numbers) has been all over the place.  Last year being SOOOO bad probably colors a lot of the perception, but it's not as bad as I would have guessed, especially 16 and 17. 

The 2011 one is especially weird because they gave up approx Eleventy Billion yards and 1.3 Billion points. It was either get a TO or allow points! 31st in Punts/drive confirms that...

• 2018 - 29th
• 2017 - 14th 
• 2016 - 7th 
• 2015 - 21st 
• 2014 - 4th 
• 2013 - 20th 
• 2012 - 20th 
• 2011 - 1st 
• 2010 - 7th 
• 2009 - 1st

Pts/Drive has been a bit worse. Again the 2011 one is super weird. Offense scores so much and so often that it gives the opposing teams so many drives. 

• 2018 - 22nd
• 2017 - 32nd
• 2016 -  28th
• 2015 - 10th 
• 2014 - 17th
• 2013 - 26th
• 2012 - 15th 
• 2011 - 3rd
• 2010 - 1st
• 2009 - 6th

TD/FG ratio is probably the most obvious area that they have been really bad at for a really long time save one year in 2010. They tend not to hold teams to FGs nearly as well as others...

• 2018 - 23rd
• 2017 - 17th
• 2016 -  22nd
• 2015 - 13th 
• 2014 - 25th
• 2013 - 28th
• 2012 - 19th
• 2011 - 27th
• 2010 - 4th
• 2009 - 31st

And, yes, I can get stuck in a rabbit hole on Football Outsiders with the smallest of provocation. 

To the point of this thread, I think we have to consider Pettine's first year with grain of salt. He was left with a lot of dead weight.

I think the expectation has to be top top in scoring defense this year, and anything better than 15th is probably acceptable. Too much money and too many high draft picks to continue to be as bad as this D has been for some time.  And honestly, while I want to see more turnovers, I'd be fine with leading the league in 3 and outs and forcing punts.  

Grave Digger posted:

This is the most talented defense we've had since 2010, the expectations should be Top 10 in scoring at a minimum. No excuses. We have a strong, experienced front 7 with the exception of Burks, and we have a veteran presence at S (Amos) and CB (Tramon). We have talented players at CB, S, and some quality depth players across the board. Hopefully they brought in upgrades on the staff, so there won't be any coaching excuses anymore. Same is true with the offense honestly. There shouldn't any excuses on offense because we have a veteran QB, OL, WR1, WR2, and TE with athletic and quality depth across the board. Even if Bulaga goes out, we paid Turner good money to be a swing Tackle. This isn't a rebuilding year, expectations should be SB. 

I respect your opinion, but this is all on paper. Haven’t seen this d unit play yet on the field. Don’t want to to fall into a Vikings trap. That’s dangerous and not recommended. Let’s see them play.

As long as he isn't Dom Capers, I'm cool

Tavis Smiley posted:

 Don’t want to to fall into a Vikings trap.

Nobody has posted that the Packers are STAAAAAAACKED.

Of course there is the whole....."tackling a QB while holding the football" penalty. 

Or....a QB throws an INT & they bail him out because a defender blows a snot bubble on the QB.

I too am concerned about who is the second starting corner.  I have very little hope left in King.

Regardless, and perhaps I am wearing my green and gold glasses, I think this may be a Top 5 defense.

They’ve spent a lot of money on veteran starters and valuable draft capital under Gute on defense and retained the DC because he made clear progress despite injuries. I don’t think it’s on paper anymore, this D should be good and has to be good barring multiple catastrophic injuries. I’m not being cocky like Vikings fans, I don’t know if they will be good or not, but an average D or worse means no SB and that would be a failure.

Top 3.

Anything less is complete and total failure. Blow the team up.

If it's not top 15 then we need to start being critical of the new GM.   That's where he has put all the resources.   Top 10 would be great but that's a tall ask after being bottom of the barrel when he took over 2 years ago.  

This D has been SO bad for SO long that the thought of an actual top 10 D is a bit bewildering.

I agree a lot of resources have been poured into the D, but hasn't that been the case for about 8 years now? What makes this year any different?

Last year we headed into training camp with 5 1st rounders in Perry, Matthews, Clark, HHCD, and Alexander as well as 4 2nd rounders in King, J. Jones, J. Jackson, Rollins on the roster and that did not lead to success.

Perhaps I'm jaded, but we have a lot of new parts -- Smith, Smith, Gary, Amos, Savage among others. Do we really expect them to flourish right away?

In addition to the relative inexperience/lack of playing together, I still have some real concerns over the lack of a coverage linebacker (not confident in Burks) and at CB (can Jackson make a leap, will King ever be healthy). 

As long as the D improves in 2019 I'll be pleased because I think Gute is aiming to make his run in 2020 and I think the D can be a top 10 unit by the 2020 season.

Pass rush could be fierce. Safety play much improved. Young and talented corners abound. LB play should be way better. 

I haven't read a single post in this topic yet, so I may end up being way, way off base here. Perhaps the hopeful homer side of me is rearing its ugly head. Maybe I'm overconfident, too, with unrealistic expectations. But, here goes. Laugh all you want, guys.

I would not be at all surprised to see this unit, if relatively healthy, become one of the top ten in the NFL. Something Rodgers hasn't had behind him since 2010, when we won the Super Bowl.

We jettisoned a bunch of guys that just weren't performing up to expectations. Guys that were getting paid a ton of money, and not meeting the performance level demanded by their pay. The defense is younger, and much more athletic. A lot more team speed. The defense had a ton of injuries last year, yet Mike Pettine's unit managed to keep us in games, anyways, I can't wait to see what he does with a unit sporting improved talent, athleticism and hopefully health.

I think this defense is going to exceed expectations, and by a wide margin. 

What are the expectations that would be exceeded?

BrainDed posted:

If it's not top 15 then we need to start being critical of the new GM.    

Pettine isn't untouchable or anything.  He'll be near the front of line for criticism as well.

What Lambeausouth said.

I will second what Lambeasouth said.  I can't wait to see what the angry bald man can do with a young, fast, and healthy defense.

lovepack posted:

Safety play much improved.

No place to go but up. The move by Gute to more athletic players was long overdue.

SteveLuke posted:

This D has been SO bad for SO long that the thought of an actual top 10 D is a bit bewildering.

I agree a lot of resources have been poured into the D, but hasn't that been the case for about 8 years now? What makes this year any different?

Last year we headed into training camp with 5 1st rounders in Perry, Matthews, Clark, HHCD, and Alexander as well as 4 2nd rounders in King, J. Jones, J. Jackson, Rollins on the roster and that did not lead to success.

Perhaps I'm jaded, but we have a lot of new parts -- Smith, Smith, Gary, Amos, Savage among others. Do we really expect them to flourish right away?

In addition to the relative inexperience/lack of playing together, I still have some real concerns over the lack of a coverage linebacker (not confident in Burks) and at CB (can Jackson make a leap, will King ever be healthy). 

As long as the D improves in 2019 I'll be pleased because I think Gute is aiming to make his run in 2020 and I think the D can be a top 10 unit by the 2020 season.

I think the heavy investment in proven young veterans is the difference. The most TT did in the last 8 years in this department was signing Julius Peppers who was closing in on the end of his career. Not that Pepp didn't play well, but it's not like we signed mid-20's Julius Peppers. Beyond that the top investment in FA's on defense was what, Letroy Guion maybe? Gute has been filling gaps with veterans to have success right away, if he was banking on 2020 or 2021 for the turn around then I think he would have re-signed guys like Matthews and some lower tier FA's. He's swinging for the fences right away. 

Brak posted:

BrainDed posted:

If it's not top 15 then we need to start being critical of the new GM.    

Pettine isn't untouchable or anything.  He'll be near the front of line for criticism as well.

I would say the ball is in his court now.  I don't think 10 top is unreasonable or unattainable.  That defense was a ****ing trainwreck of injuries last year and still pulled out some respectable play considering.

SteveLuke posted:

This D has been SO bad for SO long that the thought of an actual top 10 D is a bit bewildering.

I agree a lot of resources have been poured into the D, but hasn't that been the case for about 8 years now? What makes this year any different?

Last year we headed into training camp with 5 1st rounders in Perry, Matthews, Clark, HHCD, and Alexander as well as 4 2nd rounders in King, J. Jones, J. Jackson, Rollins on the roster and that did not lead to success.

Perhaps I'm jaded, but we have a lot of new parts -- Smith, Smith, Gary, Amos, Savage among others. Do we really expect them to flourish right away?

In addition to the relative inexperience/lack of playing together, I still have some real concerns over the lack of a coverage linebacker (not confident in Burks) and at CB (can Jackson make a leap, will King ever be healthy). 

As long as the D improves in 2019 I'll be pleased because I think Gute is aiming to make his run in 2020 and I think the D can be a top 10 unit by the 2020 season.

WTF do you like about this team?  Jesus ****ing Christ, grab the belt, a lemon and send yourself off into oblivion in sheer bliss.

Hey, maybe you heard about this massive coaching staff overhaul?  For **** sakes. 

Top 10 would be great.  But they really don’t need to be Top 10. Just don’t be Bottom 10.  Or worse, Bottom 5.

Make some stops and put the ball in #12’s hands.  Good things tend to happen.

Anyone looking at D ranking before Thanksgiving is set up for disappointment.  Lots of new parts plus youth.  Pay more attention to how they are trending in Dec.

Since defense wins championships, (except in high scoring games), I'm going with top 10 or bust.

I don't know if that is a reasonable expectation, but something close to that is probably going to be a requirement.

SteveLuke posted:

This D has been SO bad for SO long that the thought of an actual top 10 D is a bit bewildering.

I agree a lot of resources have been poured into the D, but hasn't that been the case for about 8 years now? What makes this year any different?

Do you even watch football?

The Packers pickup 2 defenders in FA both under the age of 27 & draft 2 defensive starters in the first round. 

The last time that happened the Packers won the Super Bowl the following season. 

Nothing different here....status quo....along with your tired narrative.

"When was the last time the Packers defense made that game winning stand?"

I would say when the Packers and the Vikings played when Jaire made an interception that was called back due to the ref saying that Clay Matthews legitimate sack of Cousins was roughing the passer. That bogus call negated the INT by Jaire and allowed the vikings to tie up the score on the next series of downs after the penalty on Matthews.  That was a nice stand for the defense only to be ripped away by poor officiating.

Henry posted:

Brak posted:

BrainDed posted:

If it's not top 15 then we need to start being critical of the new GM.    

Pettine isn't untouchable or anything.  He'll be near the front of line for criticism as well.

I would say the ball is in his court now.  I don't think 10 top is unreasonable or unattainable.  That defense was a ****ing trainwreck of injuries last year and still pulled out some respectable play considering.

Yes it was and that is what gives me hope with Pettine.  He obviously can coach a defense even with the players he had to work with last year.   Sooner or later the football gods will give him a healthy bunch of players and that will elevate the entire team.

Stats are funny things. They often don’t tell the whole story. I would be happy to see the defense improve and sit in the top 15. Because if our offense does it’s job then opposing offenses respond with a mad push to get back in the game. Thereby getting yards and improving their stats yet not actually winning the game.

Pass rush is the best pass defense you can ask for. If they can't get consistent PR with the dudes they brought in, Pettine isn't the Jedi we all thought.

That said, I think we are going to be really good on D...even if King gets hurt again.

Chongo posted:

Pass rush is the best pass defense you can ask for. If they can't get consistent PR with the dudes they brought in, Pettine isn't the Jedi we all thought.

That said, I think we are going to be really good on D...even WHEN King gets hurt again.

FTFY.