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We will see how the pass rush does. I still don't see that one guy that other teams have to scheme against. Neither of the Smiths is a dominant pass rusher. Gary wasn't in college so I don't expect him to tear the place up. Clark can push the pocket but he isn't Donald. Daniels? No way.

Then is Martinez is on the field the offense will always create a good match up for themselves. He can't cover.

Packers absolutely have to have King play. He;s a hell of a player, when he can play. Alexander is a stud and I think Savage is going to be Earl Thomas like eventually.

Jones, Jackson and Burks are the wild cards. If all three blow the D will have problems. If all three step up they will be trending towards great. If one or two step up that helps put them into contention.

But they have to stay healthy on D. There isn't enough depth imo.

Fair point Murph, but Pettine schemed a lot of sacks with far inferior talent in 2018 than he now has. The Smiths and Amos and Gary and Savage may not be guys that other teams single out as the dominant force like Watt or Donald, BUT they’re a huge upgrade over Fackrell, Gilbert, Brice, HHCD, etc. We were tied for 8th in sacks and have only added players that pressure the QB at a high rate. 

The Smithi and Gary fit the same mold, enough talent as outside rushers to have offenses respect the rush but also plenty big enough and fast enough come right up the gut.  They don't have to be superstars if the combined effect of those 3 and Clark is like a wave smashing into a levee.  You have 4 guys that aren't just hogs but can slip a blocker and cause havoc.   Pick your poison and hope you didn't make the wrong choice.  If this defense is anything like what Rex and Pettine ran with the Jets I could even see Martinez' sack numbers going up.

Last edited by Henry

Has to be a top 10 unit.  They just spent $30m and a first rounder on the OLB position, and a first round pick and $7m on starting safeties.  This is in addition to all the premium draft capital spent on CBs (King, Jackson, and Alexander) and safety (Jones).  This doesn't even include the wasted premium picks that should still be on this defense - Randall, Clinton-Dix, Rollins, and Perry.  Only semi-weakness is ILB where Martinez is an above average starter but they don't have much else.  I would expect to see a lot of 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 defense this year to cover up the lack of a second ILB. 

No excuses anymore.  The defense needs to lead this team.  

Last edited by CUPackFan
Tavis Smiley posted:
Grave Digger posted:

This is the most talented defense we've had since 2010, the expectations should be Top 10 in scoring at a minimum. No excuses. We have a strong, experienced front 7 with the exception of Burks, and we have a veteran presence at S (Amos) and CB (Tramon). We have talented players at CB, S, and some quality depth players across the board. Hopefully they brought in upgrades on the staff, so there won't be any coaching excuses anymore. Same is true with the offense honestly. There shouldn't any excuses on offense because we have a veteran QB, OL, WR1, WR2, and TE with athletic and quality depth across the board. Even if Bulaga goes out, we paid Turner good money to be a swing Tackle. This isn't a rebuilding year, expectations should be SB. 

I respect your opinion, but this is all on paper. Haven’t seen this d unit play yet on the field. Don’t want to to fall into a Vikings trap. That’s dangerous and not recommended. Let’s see them play.

So you’re the one. 

I think our Defense, playing well throughout this next season, all depends on how injuries affect it. We always get bit by the injury bug. Do we have enough depth to overcome the loss of players from injuries? Pettine really did an outstanding job with what he had left to work with, last season.  Fackrell getting 10 sacks was not on anybody's radar at the beginning of last season. Hopefully, Pettine can work some magic with Jackson and Jones this season.

CUPackFan posted:

Has to be a top 10 unit.  They just spent $30m and a first rounder on the OLB position, and a first round pick and $7m on starting safeties.  This is in addition to all the premium draft capital spent on CBs (King, Jackson, and Alexander) and safety (Jones).  This doesn't even include the wasted premium picks that should still be on this defense - Randall, Clinton-Dix, Rollins, and Perry.  Only semi-weakness is ILB where Martinez is an above average starter but they don't have much else.  I would expect to see a lot of 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 defense this year to cover up the lack of a second ILB. 

No excuses anymore.  The defense needs to lead this team.  

I would argue that Martinez is not an above average starter. I think he is a below average starter. I would pick 25 or 30 other ILBs over him and maybe more. 

Not really sure where to post this, so I figured this was as good of a place as any.

Scrolled through ESPN and read the "article" on projections for defensive rookie of the year.  Savage was mentioned twice.  It got me thinking about how great that would be.  However, it also made me wonder about our other 1st round draft pick.  The question is: Who would your rather see as DROY Savage or Gary?

If it's Savage, then we have not only fixed, but have made our D. Backfield one of the better ones in the league (assuming King can get healthy and Alexander continues to improve).  If it's Gary, then we have found our long term replacement for CM and markedly improved our pass rush.   

 

What say you?

DocBenni posted:

Not really sure where to post this, so I figured this was as good of a place as any.

Scrolled through ESPN and read the "article" on projections for defensive rookie of the year.  Savage was mentioned twice.  It got me thinking about how great that would be.  However, it also made me wonder about our other 1st round draft pick.  The question is: Who would your rather see as DROY Savage or Gary?

If it's Savage, then we have not only fixed, but have made our D. Backfield one of the better ones in the league (assuming King can get healthy and Alexander continues to improve).  If it's Gary, then we have found our long term replacement for CM and markedly improved our pass rush.   

 

What say you?

I honestly could care less if either one of them wins DROY or co-DROY what I want is overall defensive improvement. I could care less if players win awards what I want to see is finally having a defense on the Packers.

I am not as down on the Gary pick as others are and I am intrigued by what Pettine can do with him and coach him up.  Time will tell as it does with all draft choices what happens but I like him in the defensive rotation. 

I  do think if Savage pans out (and King can stop channeling his inner Nick Perry and stay healthy) this secondary is going to be young, aggressive, fast, and very good. 

The Heckler posted:

What is my expectations fore Pettines defense this year?  To be physical, to be fast, and to be aggressive.  And I hate to beat this dead horse constantly but they also need to finally be healthy.   One thing I want to see more than anything is the defense to win us a game.  When was the last time the Packers defense made that game winning stand?  By that I mean when was the last time as fans we were watching a game and thought "oh we got this our defense will hold for sure"

So to me if they can be healthy I don't think it is unrealistic for them to be around 10th in the league in defense.

Oh, Dude, I totally agree!

I think this is the year where it all comes together. Now, we have a killer pass rush, finally, paired with a killer secondary. I think the Packers will own a Top 5 D this season. No question, as long as we stay healthy. Thank God we don't have McCarthy and his pizza box running things anymore. Strength & Conditioning is going to be different with Chris Gizzi running the show.

Trophies posted:
The Heckler posted:

What is my expectations fore Pettines defense this year?  To be physical, to be fast, and to be aggressive.  And I hate to beat this dead horse constantly but they also need to finally be healthy.   One thing I want to see more than anything is the defense to win us a game.  When was the last time the Packers defense made that game winning stand?  By that I mean when was the last time as fans we were watching a game and thought "oh we got this our defense will hold for sure"

So to me if they can be healthy I don't think it is unrealistic for them to be around 10th in the league in defense.

Oh, Dude, I totally agree!

I think this is the year where it all comes together. Now, we have a killer pass rush, finally, paired with a killer secondary. I think the Packers will own a Top 5 D this season. No question, as long as we stay healthy. Thank God we don't have McCarthy and his pizza box running things anymore. Strength & Conditioning is going to be different with Chris Gizzi running the show.

Hey Trophies,

I prognosticated the same!

Me:

I too am concerned about who is the second starting corner.  I have very little hope left in King.

Regardless, and perhaps I am wearing my green and gold glasses, I think this may be a Top 5 defense.

phaedrus posted:
Trophies posted:
The Heckler posted:

What is my expectations fore Pettines defense this year?  To be physical, to be fast, and to be aggressive.  And I hate to beat this dead horse constantly but they also need to finally be healthy.   One thing I want to see more than anything is the defense to win us a game.  When was the last time the Packers defense made that game winning stand?  By that I mean when was the last time as fans we were watching a game and thought "oh we got this our defense will hold for sure"

So to me if they can be healthy I don't think it is unrealistic for them to be around 10th in the league in defense.

Oh, Dude, I totally agree!

I think this is the year where it all comes together. Now, we have a killer pass rush, finally, paired with a killer secondary. I think the Packers will own a Top 5 D this season. No question, as long as we stay healthy. Thank God we don't have McCarthy and his pizza box running things anymore. Strength & Conditioning is going to be different with Chris Gizzi running the show.

Hey Trophies,

I prognosticated the same!

Me:

I too am concerned about who is the second starting corner.  I have very little hope left in King.

Regardless, and perhaps I am wearing my green and gold glasses, I think this may be a Top 5 defense.

yO man! I don't think you've got G&G glasses on with that thought. Good call!

Figure, we also will be embarking on one of the easiest schedules we've had in years through the first half of this season (after CHI we have 5 of 6 at Home, only 1 vs. a 2018 playoff team). This D has a lot of new faces, but I think they will get better and better with every opportunity to play together, and Mike Pettine being able to finally run all the scheme looks that he wants. We now have the size and speed to match with anybody.

A fast start to the season will help this D, and I seriously cannot wait to see it happen. Top 5.

Last edited by Trophies
Trophies posted: ...

we also will be embarking on one of the easiest schedules we've had in years through the first half of this season (after CHI we have 5 of 6 at Home, only 1 vs. a 2018 playoff team)...

I like this point particularly.
It would be ideal if the defense could 'gel' during these stretch of games, and be tuned up for the second half of season. That would also allow for some 'new' schemes by ABM for the post-season.

Agree that S & C could be a critical component of the defense's success. The rooks have a long season in front of them, especially those that are starting from somewhere less than 100%. It may help if Gary is rotational and has limited snap counts, but Savage's position is typically on the field for ALL of them.

 Yeah I've never fallen for the easy schedule mantra either. Looks to me like there are some tough games (Chi, Min, Philly, KC, SD, SF, and Dallas has a great Defense....never know what Detroit will bring with Patricia adding new.dimension...) ....plus we are going to be getting settled in with a brand new coach and with half of our defense having new starting personnel. No doubt  we should have high expectations after all of the money spent and high draft picks but I think I'll wait and see. Top-five is awfully lofty. After what we've seen I'll be happy for top 10 ðŸĪ—

Week 1 @ Chicago

Week 2 vs Minnesota

Week 3 vs Denver

Week 4 vs Philadelphia

Week 5 @ Dallas

Week 6 vs Detroit

Week 7 vs Oakland

Week 8 @ Kansas City

Week 9 @ San Diego

Week 10 vs Carolina

Week 11 Bye

Week 12 @ San Fransisco

Week 13 @ New York Giants

Week 14 vs Washington

Week 15 vs Chicago

Week 16 @ Minnesota

Week 17 @ Detroit

Historically, we've never really had many fast starts to the season. I was referring more to the Defense getting momentum, as we really don't face many offensive juggernauts until week 8 vs. KC, and 5 of our first 8 games are at Lambeau.

Not talking about strength of schedule at all, but, the Bears are going to suck again, the Queens will suck, again, and Detroilet will still be Detroilet.

Also, this won't be an all-new system they will be walking into on D. There is a lot more understanding by the players of Pettine's scheme, how he disguises, and how other players know their own roles, and each other's in switching, etc. This year 2 in Pettine's system is really going to help a lot of the players from last season, and how they can share info with more understanding with the rookies.

Check out Blake Martinez's podcast at the Athletic. He talks a lot about that. Pretty cool insights.

Martinez was talking about how he and Burks are so much more stoked to get on the field because of what they know now about the intricacies of his system. Pretty good point. He said Burks struggled last season trying too hard to be perfect. Put too much pressure on himself. There was so much to learn. Typical rookie stuff. Plus, Burks is no slouch. Earned his degree from Vanderbilt. Smart guy trying to do too much in 2018. 

https://theathletic.com/977945...uest-blake-martinez/

I think this defense is going to realize a lot of success early, and that should only help the rest of the way.

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