Pass rush don't mean shit when Tramon's jock is laying on the field.
We will see how the pass rush does. I still don't see that one guy that other teams have to scheme against. Neither of the Smiths is a dominant pass rusher. Gary wasn't in college so I don't expect him to tear the place up. Clark can push the pocket but he isn't Donald. Daniels? No way.
Then is Martinez is on the field the offense will always create a good match up for themselves. He can't cover.
Packers absolutely have to have King play. He;s a hell of a player, when he can play. Alexander is a stud and I think Savage is going to be Earl Thomas like eventually.
Jones, Jackson and Burks are the wild cards. If all three blow the D will have problems. If all three step up they will be trending towards great. If one or two step up that helps put them into contention.
But they have to stay healthy on D. There isn't enough depth imo.
Fair point Murph, but Pettine schemed a lot of sacks with far inferior talent in 2018 than he now has. The Smiths and Amos and Gary and Savage may not be guys that other teams single out as the dominant force like Watt or Donald, BUT theyâre a huge upgrade over Fackrell, Gilbert, Brice, HHCD, etc. We were tied for 8th in sacks and have only added players that pressure the QB at a high rate.
The Smithi and Gary fit the same mold, enough talent as outside rushers to have offenses respect the rush but also plenty big enough and fast enough come right up the gut. They don't have to be superstars if the combined effect of those 3 and Clark is like a wave smashing into a levee. You have 4 guys that aren't just hogs but can slip a blocker and cause havoc. Pick your poison and hope you didn't make the wrong choice. If this defense is anything like what Rex and Pettine ran with the Jets I could even see Martinez' sack numbers going up.
As Iâve said in an earlier post, the defense doesnât need to be top 10. Just donât be bottom 10. Get the ball to the offense more often via stops, and the season should shake out just fine.
There's still a glaring lack of depth so I'd say getting the offense to sustain more drives is just as important. Three-and-outs mixed with quick-strike TDs wears a defense out also.
Has to be a top 10 unit. They just spent $30m and a first rounder on the OLB position, and a first round pick and $7m on starting safeties. This is in addition to all the premium draft capital spent on CBs (King, Jackson, and Alexander) and safety (Jones). This doesn't even include the wasted premium picks that should still be on this defense - Randall, Clinton-Dix, Rollins, and Perry. Only semi-weakness is ILB where Martinez is an above average starter but they don't have much else. I would expect to see a lot of 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 defense this year to cover up the lack of a second ILB.
No excuses anymore. The defense needs to lead this team.
They're banking on Burks to be the other guy at ILB, even as a hybrid. Hope and a prayer but it's not completely devoid.
Herschel posted:There's still a glaring lack of depth so I'd say getting the offense to sustain more drives is just as important. Three-and-outs mixed with quick-strike TDs wears a defense out also.
Great point. I don't know if stats support it but it felt like as the season and individual games went on, the D wore done.
I think it had just as much to do with being injury and trade depleted than anything. But when the offense would disappear for an entire half you know that was wearing on the defense.
Tavis Smiley posted:Grave Digger posted:This is the most talented defense we've had since 2010, the expectations should be Top 10 in scoring at a minimum. No excuses. We have a strong, experienced front 7 with the exception of Burks, and we have a veteran presence at S (Amos) and CB (Tramon). We have talented players at CB, S, and some quality depth players across the board. Hopefully they brought in upgrades on the staff, so there won't be any coaching excuses anymore. Same is true with the offense honestly. There shouldn't any excuses on offense because we have a veteran QB, OL, WR1, WR2, and TE with athletic and quality depth across the board. Even if Bulaga goes out, we paid Turner good money to be a swing Tackle. This isn't a rebuilding year, expectations should be SB.
I respect your opinion, but this is all on paper. Havenât seen this d unit play yet on the field. Donât want to to fall into a Vikings trap. Thatâs dangerous and not recommended. Letâs see them play.
So youâre the one.
I think our Defense, playing well throughout this next season, all depends on how injuries affect it. We always get bit by the injury bug. Do we have enough depth to overcome the loss of players from injuries? Pettine really did an outstanding job with what he had left to work with, last season. Fackrell getting 10 sacks was not on anybody's radar at the beginning of last season. Hopefully, Pettine can work some magic with Jackson and Jones this season.
What I expect is when the Green Bay offense scores, be it TD or FG, I expect the Green Bay defense to force a 3 and out or turnover on the other teams next offensive series. Get their defense back on the field ASAP.
heyward posted:So youâre the one.
Attachments
CUPackFan posted:Has to be a top 10 unit. They just spent $30m and a first rounder on the OLB position, and a first round pick and $7m on starting safeties. This is in addition to all the premium draft capital spent on CBs (King, Jackson, and Alexander) and safety (Jones). This doesn't even include the wasted premium picks that should still be on this defense - Randall, Clinton-Dix, Rollins, and Perry. Only semi-weakness is ILB where Martinez is an above average starter but they don't have much else. I would expect to see a lot of 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 defense this year to cover up the lack of a second ILB.
No excuses anymore. The defense needs to lead this team.
I would argue that Martinez is not an above average starter. I think he is a below average starter. I would pick 25 or 30 other ILBs over him and maybe more.
And cut Kenny Clark
AtTheMurph posted:I would argue that Martinez is not an above average starter. I think he is a below average starter. I would pick 25 or 30 other ILBs over him and maybe more.
I would like to see those 25 or 30 names.
Same here. Good luck getting that list.
Quite a posting storm you had there PH. 
Not really sure where to post this, so I figured this was as good of a place as any.
Scrolled through ESPN and read the "article" on projections for defensive rookie of the year. Savage was mentioned twice. It got me thinking about how great that would be. However, it also made me wonder about our other 1st round draft pick. The question is: Who would your rather see as DROY Savage or Gary?
If it's Savage, then we have not only fixed, but have made our D. Backfield one of the better ones in the league (assuming King can get healthy and Alexander continues to improve). If it's Gary, then we have found our long term replacement for CM and markedly improved our pass rush.
What say you?
Co-ROYs. Why not?
Savage as DROY is a possibility, but I expect Gary to be a rotational player and likely not on the field enough for consideration. I'll be satisfied with a healthy contribution from him and no serious issues with the shoulder.
DocBenni posted:Not really sure where to post this, so I figured this was as good of a place as any.
Scrolled through ESPN and read the "article" on projections for defensive rookie of the year. Savage was mentioned twice. It got me thinking about how great that would be. However, it also made me wonder about our other 1st round draft pick. The question is: Who would your rather see as DROY Savage or Gary?
If it's Savage, then we have not only fixed, but have made our D. Backfield one of the better ones in the league (assuming King can get healthy and Alexander continues to improve). If it's Gary, then we have found our long term replacement for CM and markedly improved our pass rush.
What say you?
I honestly could care less if either one of them wins DROY or co-DROY what I want is overall defensive improvement. I could care less if players win awards what I want to see is finally having a defense on the Packers.
I am not as down on the Gary pick as others are and I am intrigued by what Pettine can do with him and coach him up. Time will tell as it does with all draft choices what happens but I like him in the defensive rotation.
I do think if Savage pans out (and King can stop channeling his inner Nick Perry and stay healthy) this secondary is going to be young, aggressive, fast, and very good.
I'd "like" it to be Gary but if we are placing wagers, my money would be on Savage. That being if those were the only twp available to wager on.
The Heckler posted:What is my expectations fore Pettines defense this year? To be physical, to be fast, and to be aggressive. And I hate to beat this dead horse constantly but they also need to finally be healthy. One thing I want to see more than anything is the defense to win us a game. When was the last time the Packers defense made that game winning stand? By that I mean when was the last time as fans we were watching a game and thought "oh we got this our defense will hold for sure"
So to me if they can be healthy I don't think it is unrealistic for them to be around 10th in the league in defense.
Oh, Dude, I totally agree!
I think this is the year where it all comes together. Now, we have a killer pass rush, finally, paired with a killer secondary. I think the Packers will own a Top 5 D this season. No question, as long as we stay healthy. Thank God we don't have McCarthy and his pizza box running things anymore. Strength & Conditioning is going to be different with Chris Gizzi running the show.
Why does everyone care about MVP's, etc. Just win championships. I could care less about these individual awards you speak of.
I actually couldn't care less. âĒ
I wouldn't care less. I care.
So careless.
Trophies posted:The Heckler posted:What is my expectations fore Pettines defense this year? To be physical, to be fast, and to be aggressive. And I hate to beat this dead horse constantly but they also need to finally be healthy. One thing I want to see more than anything is the defense to win us a game. When was the last time the Packers defense made that game winning stand? By that I mean when was the last time as fans we were watching a game and thought "oh we got this our defense will hold for sure"
So to me if they can be healthy I don't think it is unrealistic for them to be around 10th in the league in defense.
Oh, Dude, I totally agree!
I think this is the year where it all comes together. Now, we have a killer pass rush, finally, paired with a killer secondary. I think the Packers will own a Top 5 D this season. No question, as long as we stay healthy. Thank God we don't have McCarthy and his pizza box running things anymore. Strength & Conditioning is going to be different with Chris Gizzi running the show.
Hey Trophies,
I prognosticated the same!
Me:
I too am concerned about who is the second starting corner. I have very little hope left in King.
Regardless, and perhaps I am wearing my green and gold glasses, I think this may be a Top 5 defense.
phaedrus posted:Trophies posted:The Heckler posted:What is my expectations fore Pettines defense this year? To be physical, to be fast, and to be aggressive. And I hate to beat this dead horse constantly but they also need to finally be healthy. One thing I want to see more than anything is the defense to win us a game. When was the last time the Packers defense made that game winning stand? By that I mean when was the last time as fans we were watching a game and thought "oh we got this our defense will hold for sure"
So to me if they can be healthy I don't think it is unrealistic for them to be around 10th in the league in defense.
Oh, Dude, I totally agree!
I think this is the year where it all comes together. Now, we have a killer pass rush, finally, paired with a killer secondary. I think the Packers will own a Top 5 D this season. No question, as long as we stay healthy. Thank God we don't have McCarthy and his pizza box running things anymore. Strength & Conditioning is going to be different with Chris Gizzi running the show.
Hey Trophies,
I prognosticated the same!
Me:
I too am concerned about who is the second starting corner. I have very little hope left in King.
Regardless, and perhaps I am wearing my green and gold glasses, I think this may be a Top 5 defense.
yO man! I don't think you've got G&G glasses on with that thought. Good call!
Figure, we also will be embarking on one of the easiest schedules we've had in years through the first half of this season (after CHI we have 5 of 6 at Home, only 1 vs. a 2018 playoff team). This D has a lot of new faces, but I think they will get better and better with every opportunity to play together, and Mike Pettine being able to finally run all the scheme looks that he wants. We now have the size and speed to match with anybody.
A fast start to the season will help this D, and I seriously cannot wait to see it happen. Top 5.
This defense is going to be good. My only thought is don't put everything on tape during the season. Save some stuff for the playoffs. I'm certain angry bald man will do that.
Even if the D design remained constant throughout the season, the tape from WK1 to WK17 will look very different. Hopefully different = better.
Trophies posted: ...we also will be embarking on one of the easiest schedules we've had in years through the first half of this season (after CHI we have 5 of 6 at Home, only 1 vs. a 2018 playoff team)...
I like this point particularly.
It would be ideal if the defense could 'gel' during these stretch of games, and be tuned up for the second half of season. That would also allow for some 'new' schemes by ABM for the post-season.
Agree that S & C could be a critical component of the defense's success. The rooks have a long season in front of them, especially those that are starting from somewhere less than 100%. It may help if Gary is rotational and has limited snap counts, but Savage's position is typically on the field for ALL of them.
The schedule may look easy (or difficult) at the start of the season, but somehow it never seems to pan out that way.
Yeah I've never fallen for the easy schedule mantra either. Looks to me like there are some tough games (Chi, Min, Philly, KC, SD, SF, and Dallas has a great Defense....never know what Detroit will bring with Patricia adding new.dimension...) ....plus we are going to be getting settled in with a brand new coach and with half of our defense having new starting personnel. No doubt we should have high expectations after all of the money spent and high draft picks but I think I'll wait and see. Top-five is awfully lofty. After what we've seen I'll be happy for top 10 ðĪ
Week 1 @ Chicago
Week 2 vs Minnesota
Week 3 vs Denver
Week 4 vs Philadelphia
Week 5 @ Dallas
Week 6 vs Detroit
Week 7 vs Oakland
Week 8 @ Kansas City
Week 9 @ San Diego
Week 10 vs Carolina
Week 11 Bye
Week 12 @ San Fransisco
Week 13 @ New York Giants
Week 14 vs Washington
Week 15 vs Chicago
Week 16 @ Minnesota
Week 17 @ Detroit
The NFL has some useless stats. Strengh of schedule based on what teams did last year? Doesn't take into account all the offseason moves. Maybe PFF can dream up a better stat formula for strength of schedule.
You really can't do strength of schedule until the season is over
Historically, we've never really had many fast starts to the season. I was referring more to the Defense getting momentum, as we really don't face many offensive juggernauts until week 8 vs. KC, and 5 of our first 8 games are at Lambeau.
Not talking about strength of schedule at all, but, the Bears are going to suck again, the Queens will suck, again, and Detroilet will still be Detroilet.
Also, this won't be an all-new system they will be walking into on D. There is a lot more understanding by the players of Pettine's scheme, how he disguises, and how other players know their own roles, and each other's in switching, etc. This year 2 in Pettine's system is really going to help a lot of the players from last season, and how they can share info with more understanding with the rookies.
Check out Blake Martinez's podcast at the Athletic. He talks a lot about that. Pretty cool insights.
Martinez was talking about how he and Burks are so much more stoked to get on the field because of what they know now about the intricacies of his system. Pretty good point. He said Burks struggled last season trying too hard to be perfect. Put too much pressure on himself. There was so much to learn. Typical rookie stuff. Plus, Burks is no slouch. Earned his degree from Vanderbilt. Smart guy trying to do too much in 2018.
https://theathletic.com/977945...uest-blake-martinez/
I think this defense is going to realize a lot of success early, and that should only help the rest of the way.