@Henry posted:If so, then Rodgers decision is obviously made.
Again, this is not a bad thing for Love. Clements is a good QB tutor.
Likely true Hank, but I think we all know a 70 year old coach isn't coming out of retirement to coach Love. Almost certainly he's not doing this unless 12 is under center in 2022.
Speaking of Love, you have to wonder how soon his camp starts demanding he gets traded. I'd guess in about 2-3 weeks when Rodgers new deal is announced.
Rodgers for two more years is great if Love is actually the guy. At least three if he’s not.
I'm not saying they hired Clements for Love. I'm saying it's a good thing experience wise, I don't care why he's hired.
Doesn't always have to be about Rodgers.
@packerboi posted:Likely true Hank, but I think we all know a 70 year old coach isn't coming out of retirement to coach Love. Almost certainly he's not doing this unless 12 is under center in 2022.
Speaking of Love, you have to wonder how soon his camp starts demanding he gets traded. I'd guess in about 2-3 weeks when Rodgers new deal is announced.
His camp is Rodgers camp so if there's interest in leaving GB that's already in the works too.
When does the Amazon Prime package money hit the cap? 2023? I agree, I think the cap will go up astronomically in 2 years. Remember, it was severely depressed the last 2 years because of Covid.
DIdn't the league and the Players Union agree to spread the cap reduction over 3 years instead of just one?
If so, it could really balloon in 2 or 3 years, more than able to absorb the can they kick down the road with 12 and 17?
@Pikes Peak posted:I know we have been thru this too, but he lost me last year in that game when he forced it to 17 (shocking I know) instead of trying to run it in from about the 8. He may not have made it and if he did it would not mean game over, but he had a shot, certainly better than a no shot pass.
I will always maintain he saw Adams getting mugged by guys on both sides of him in the end zone, figured he'd get the PI call and ball at the one with a first down.
@PackerHawk posted:His camp is Rodgers camp so if there's interest in leaving GB that's already in the works too.
Andrew Brandt tells a story that at the start of 2008, Rodgers camp was calling the Packers FO multiple times a week demanding to know when Aaron was going to be the starter. They were done waiting. And yes, Favre's bullshit of will I/won't I certainly didn't help.
Love is a 1st round pick. In today's NFL, they just don't sit in the league for 3 years anymore. I'd imagine we will have a very pissed off Jordan Love when AR is extended. And he will want out now.
Love has done nothing to demand anything.
@Packiderm posted:Love has done nothing to demand anything.
As opposed to Rodgers who at that point played in (combined partial/full) 5 games of football? Btw, same as Love.
@YATittle posted:I will always maintain he saw Adams getting mugged by guys on both sides of him in the end zone, figured he'd get the PI call and ball at the one with a first down.
Still the wrong decision IMO
@Herschel posted:I'm married to a great gal with a good job now but if I go to her office party and hit on all the interns it's likely to give me a better chance at happiness, right?
Well I suppose of you get slapped silly.
@packerboi posted:Andrew Brandt tells a story that at the start of 2008, Rodgers camp was calling the Packers FO multiple times a week demanding to know when Aaron was going to be the starter. They were done waiting. And yes, Favre's bullshit of will I/won't I certainly didn't help.
Love is a 1st round pick. In today's NFL, they just don't sit in the league for 3 years anymore. I'd imagine we will have a very pissed off Jordan Love when AR is extended. And he will want out now.
Rodgers had a lot more leverage in 2008 than Love does now. In retrospect, the most important game in Rodgers' career was that 2007 game in Dallas where he came in after Favre got hurt and he got them back in the game. Favre had been awful to start that game against a Dallas team that ended up as the #1 seed in the playoffs that year. They had a ferocious pass rush (D. Ware), and Favre had already thrown 2 interceptions before he got hurt. Rodgers was outstanding in that game and it probably made the difference in being comfortable moving on from Favre. There's no way they don't cave and bring Favre back if they hadn't seen Rodgers perform under those circumstances.
Love had two chances this year to provide them that level of comfort. He didn't succeed in doing that. He may want out now, but who is going to want him?
Love can demand a trade all he wants...the Packers are under no obligation to do so. They won't get a first rounder for him...best case, and this is absolute best, they get a 2nd, and more likely, a 3rd.
All that does is get you an extra pick, and a lot of egg on your face (Gutey)...you are conceding defeat. If you hand on to Love and let him develop, then you run the risk if 12 gets knocked out for the season, or wins a Superb Owl next year and just decides "it's time to hang it up," you still have your QB1. If you trade him away, and Rodgers hangs it up, then you have to position to draft another, etc.
Brandt's whole "you don't draft a QB in the first round to not play in his first 3 years," means nothing in this context. Year 1 doesn't really count since it was COVID year. It was more like an extended OTA for Love. 2021-22 was really year one for him. If Rodgers plays 2 more years, then Love basically sat behind a HOFer for 3 years and can still make Gutey look like a jeenyus.
This shit isn't as complicated as many seem to think it is.
12 is searching for something in his life...maybe it's another championship, maybe it's marriage and kids...who knows...but I do know this...a dude his age who has accomplished as much as he has and purports to be in such a great headspace, seems a little lost.
He's had 3 "serious" relationships in 6 years...Olivia didn't want marriage or kids, Danica wanted marriage but no kids, and Sunny Gina seemed to want both...but when 12 became a little too "red state," for her peer group, that sunk his battleship.
Maybe 12 needs to have a sit down with Joe Namath and find out how the consummate bachelor finally found his happy place.
@Pikes Peak posted:Still the wrong decision IMO
I agree. He looked stunned when he saw no flags.
@packerboi posted:No one wants to bring this up either, but not unlike Rodgers, Adams has also played small at times in the biggest games that matter. In the 2021 NFCC game, he had 9 catches for 67 yards and dropped a sure 2 yard TD pass that he almost always would have caught. He was targeted 15 times for about a 60 % catch rate. He also had an uncharacteristic drop rate of 6.7 percent in that game.
What an asinine way to use statistics. Indeed. An uncharacteristic rate of 6.7... which in this case means exactly one drop. So, he could have had the uncharacteristically high rate of 6.7, or an even more uncharacteristically low 0.0 if he had caught it being that for 2021 at least his drop rate was 3.9 percent (I didn't see 2020 pop up). Schrödinger's Bullshit.
I'm sure if Rodgers had Tonyan and MVS he'd have tried to spread the ball around some more as they have at least somewhat established themselves as useful players. Not great players mind you, just useful to an offense.
I just don't get it. Now we got people saying that Rodgers isn't throwing enough interceptions... as if he has just been trying to Trent Dilfer his way to a Super Bowl here. The man is running an offense that puts up points.
For that matter, the holy Cowboys game where Rodgers came in as relief that everybody praises... It's been a while but the impression I had at the time was yeah they are dinking and dunking, and slowly getting some points but that's a strategy with basically no chance of coming back and actually winning the game. That was the kind of game where risky play was really the only shot of winning. Not a good shot mind you as he was in a massive hole when he came off the bench, but it is what it is.
So yeah sure, Adams should have caught that ball last year. Rodgers should have thrown to Lazard instead of YOLOing it to Adams in a panic this year. But that doesn't mean getting rid of your two best players makes you a better team.
A rebuild can wait. Sure, if you can somehow get a king's ransom for Rodgers or Adams, it's not an invalid strategy. But so long as Rodgers is performing at this level, I say keep him, and give him better weapons. It may be a broken record of a take, but get Bakh back healthy, find someone to complement Adams in the passing game so there isn't a single point of failure, and take another crack at it.
You can't count on the refs to make a defensive call, especially in the playoffs. When the playoffs hit, the refs back off and let 'em play. Look at the NBA: they call every ticky-tack thing on any starter in the regular season, but let them get mugged to a degree in the playoffs. Everyone says, "Defense wins championships" when the playoffs come around, and for the most part, it's because the refs put the whistles away, especially on D. (until Cincy got the PI calls this year at the very end of the SB; but then again, the Saints got jobbed on the missed PI in 2019).
If there's one consistency, it's that you can count on the refs' inconsistency.
@4 Favre posted:The man is running an offense that puts up points.
10….needed 14.
Edit: I retract my statement. I don't give a fuck anymore. FA and draft.
@Pikes Peak posted:Still the wrong decision IMO
Yep. You cannot rely on the officials throwing a flag.
@4 Favre posted:What an asinine way to use statistics. Indeed. An uncharacteristic rate of 6.7... which in this case means exactly one drop. So, he could have had the uncharacteristically high rate of 6.7, or an even more uncharacteristically low 0.0 if he had caught it being that for 2021 at least his drop rate was 3.9 percent (I didn't see 2020 pop up). Schrödinger's Bullshit.
I'm sure if Rodgers had Tonyan and MVS he'd have tried to spread the ball around some more as they have at least somewhat established themselves as useful players. Not great players mind you, just useful to an offense.
I just don't get it. Now we got people saying that Rodgers isn't throwing enough interceptions... as if he has just been trying to Trent Dilfer his way to a Super Bowl here. The man is running an offense that puts up points.
For that matter, the holy Cowboys game where Rodgers came in as relief that everybody praises... It's been a while but the impression I had at the time was yeah they are dinking and dunking, and slowly getting some points but that's a strategy with basically no chance of coming back and actually winning the game. That was the kind of game where risky play was really the only shot of winning. Not a good shot mind you as he was in a massive hole when he came off the bench, but it is what it is.
So yeah sure, Adams should have caught that ball last year. Rodgers should have thrown to Lazard instead of YOLOing it to Adams in a panic this year. But that doesn't mean getting rid of your two best players makes you a better team.
A rebuild can wait. Sure, if you can somehow get a king's ransom for Rodgers or Adams, it's not an invalid strategy. But so long as Rodgers is performing at this level, I say keep him, and give him better weapons. It may be a broken record of a take, but get Bakh back healthy, find someone to complement Adams in the passing game so there isn't a single point of failure, and take another crack at it.
If they could give him better weapons while accommodating Rodgers' salary, and if Bak eventually gets back to pre injury status, I would tend to agree with you. Unless I am way off base, keeping (and paying) Rodgers and Adams seems to mean they will have to jettison a lot of other pieces like Campbell, Douglass, Smith brothers and maybe Tonyan. Not much sense in letting Adams go if the intent is to improve his weapons. Also have to consider need to extend Jaire and Jenkins. I'm only in favor of trying again with Rodgers if they're able to strengthen other areas of the roster. Paying him and improving roster seem mutually exclusive of each other.
#Packers’ top decision-makers are bending over backward to make Aaron Rodgers happy, this time by bringing back his buddy Tom Clements as QB coach. Remember, these are the same guys who see Jordan Love in practice every day.
— Tom Oates (@TomOatesWSJ) February 17, 2022
People claiming all this says very little about Jordon Love are simply wrong, IMO.
Well, if Clements is the QB whisperer some have said, maybe he's the guy to mentor Love and get him better. Getsy seemed like he was more a personality hire that fit in with the group more than a QB expert.
@Goalline posted:Pretty good
Which makes sense. As a QB he's also pretty good.
@Henry posted:Edit: I retract my statement. I don't give a fuck anymore. FA and draft.
X4. Not for pussies. 
@4 Favre posted:I'm sure if Rodgers had Tonyan and MVS he'd have tried to spread the ball around some more as they have at least somewhat established themselves as useful players. Not great players mind you, just useful to an offense.
In the last NFCC game where he had Tonyan and MVS, he targeted them 4 times. 4.
Adams? Try 15 times.
Look, had they won, no one would give a damn. But Rodgers fixates to a fault to Adams and will at times ignore the open guy and the one the defense is giving him. Coaches like Shanahan are fully aware of this and that is why inferior QB's like Jimmy G are consistently able to beat him in the playoffs.
That Rodgers would have tried to "spread the ball" around with Adams playing is simply delusional.
@packerboi posted:In the last NFCC game where he had Tonyan and MVS, he targeted them 4 times. 4.
Adams? Try 15 times.
Look, had they won, no one would give a damn. But Rodgers fixates to a fault to Adams and will at times ignore the open guy and the one the defense is giving him. Coaches like Shanahan are fully aware of this and that is why inferior QB's like Jimmy G are consistently able to beat him in the playoffs.
That Rodgers would have tried to "spread the ball" around with Adams playing is simply delusional.
Bert got better at spreading the ball around once Sterling Sharpe was gone.
However, take away Adams, we don't have equivalents of Robert Brooks, Mark Ingram, Antonio Freeman, Mark Chmura and Keith Jackson. We don't even have one guy of that quality. Fuck, I'd settle for an Andre Rison.
But your point is fair...perhaps it's time for MLF to put on his asshole cap and tell 12 to spread it around more.
@Chongo posted:But your point is fair...perhaps it's time for MLF to put on his asshole cap and tell 12 to spread it around more.
Completely agree. But here's a question: Does MLF have the balls to do it? And if yes, would Rodgers listen or just do whatever the hell he wants?
Then again, re-signing AR and moving on from Adams solves that problem. But I also cannot see Rodgers here in 2022 without #17.
@packerboi posted:Completely agree. But here's a question: Does MLF have the balls to do it? And if yes, would Rodgers listen or just do whatever the hell he wants?
Then again, re-signing AR and moving on from Adams solves that problem. But I also cannot see Rodgers here in 2022 without #17.
That's been my concern with MLF from day one...does he have enough asshole in him to be an effective NFL HC?
No doubt he has the X's and O's knowledge, but at some point, you are the HC, 12 is the player...give him all the respect and input he wants...but if you know in your heart he needs to do something better, tell him. Harp on it.
We heard stories about changing the play in year 1, and the offense not working that well...and in year 2 they convinced 12 to not change the play as much and an MVP season resulted.
While I do believe 12 can use the weapons he has more effectively, I also believe as others in this thread have said, the FO needs to do a better job getting him better tallant than ESB, Dom Dafney and Lazard. Lazard is way to inconsistent to be reliable #2...on most teams he's the 3rd or 4th WR. Prior to this season, MVS has been speed and nothing else.
Some of it was bad luck...Tonyan's ACL...They spent a 3rd on Shitburger, they didn't know he'd stop wanting to be a football player...they went with Amari instead of Amon-Ra St. Brown...I don't blame them for that because it's not like his brother was a glaring endorsement on tallant. Plus they needed a PR guy too which Amon-Ra ain't.
@Chongo posted:Broadway Joe in the #MeToo era...
Dream from heaven
Right up there with Paul Hornung.
@Chongo posted:That's been my concern with MLF from day one...does he have enough asshole in him to be an effective NFL HC?
The interesting thing about the Clements hire to me is the FO and Rodgers know Clements, Mayo doesn't.
Really curious as to how much input Mayo has on coaching hires. Probably about as much power as Gorf has as a legit GM.
@4 Favre posted:For that matter, the holy Cowboys game where Rodgers came in as relief that everybody praises... It's been a while but the impression I had at the time was yeah they are dinking and dunking, and slowly getting some points but that's a strategy with basically no chance of coming back and actually winning the game. That was the kind of game where risky play was really the only shot of winning. Not a good shot mind you as he was in a massive hole when he came off the bench, but it is what it is.
So yeah sure, Adams should have caught that ball last year. Rodgers should have thrown to Lazard instead of YOLOing it to Adams in a panic this year. But that doesn't mean getting rid of your two best players makes you a better team.
A rebuild can wait. Sure, if you can somehow get a king's ransom for Rodgers or Adams, it's not an invalid strategy. But so long as Rodgers is performing at this level, I say keep him, and give him better weapons. It may be a broken record of a take, but get Bakh back healthy, find someone to complement Adams in the passing game so there isn't a single point of failure, and take another crack at it.
When Rodgers came into the 2007 game after Favre got hurt, it was 27-10 and he played well enough to get it so it was a one-score game for most of the 4th quarter. I remember watching that game in a sports bar (it was on NFL network on a Thursday night and we didn't get that at home). When Rodgers came in my initial thought was this is going to turn into a shitshow and it was shocking to see him face the same pass rush and perform exponentially better than Favre. I remember being absolutely stunned.
Your last point is really important and I'll expand on it. Getting Rodgers back even without Adams makes you competitive for a Super Bowl next year and it's more dependent on two other players than Adams. If Bakh and Elton Jenkins are healthy by the end of next year and the Packers are in the playoffs, that makes them a real threat. Those are two of the top 5 or 10 OL in the NFL and they were both gone this year and both could be back next year. That's really an underrated aspect as to how the Packers will do next year no matter who the QB is.
@packerboi posted:Completely agree. But here's a question: Does MLF have the balls to do it? And if yes, would Rodgers listen or just do whatever the hell he wants?
Then again, re-signing AR and moving on from Adams solves that problem. But I also cannot see Rodgers here in 2022 without #17.
Maybe they brought in Clements to play the asshole role. Or in some kind of roundabout way be that guy. Maybe he will talk with Rodgers about the 2010-2011 days and how easy things were when the open guy was getting the ball.
Brady won a SB with Edelman as his #1 WR and James White as his #1 RB. That's why he's the GOAT. If your QB is good enough they make due with what they have.
I also wonder how pointed MLF is in his coaching of AR. This from the book "Belichick" ..." after watching Brady hit Branch 50 out of 51 attempts vs. Pats defense in training camp, Belichick ordered him to not throw the ball to Branch for the rest of the week and spread it around". And this in film session after Brady had thrown an INT into triple coverage " There you go Brady, throwing it into a fucking team meeting" .
@The Crusher posted:Brady won a SB with Edelman as his #1 WR and James White as his #1 RB. That's why he's the GOAT. If your QB is good enough they make due with what they have.
He also had a great OL that didn't have it's two best linemen on the shelf with ACL injuries.
