Liked what I saw from Clifford but Brett Hundley offers a cautionary tale about reading too much into the preseason.
To me, the biggest unknowns or question marks coming into this season are QB and WR.
It’s tough not to get excited over a preseason game, but both groups made a lot of plays.
The Clifford thing is interesting because if you look at his college numbers he had a very good college career at a big time program. Won 70% of the games he started, completed 61% of his passes, and had nearly a 3-1 TD to INT ratio.
He’s not the elite athlete nor does he have a huge arm, but at a bare minimum he appears to have the makings of a solid backup. I think what does possess are A+ intangibles- work ethic, mental toughness, leadership, moxie, and poise. The term “gamer” gets thrown around but it’s a lot more than that.
It’s fascinating when you look at the QB position guys that pan out and guys that don’t. Sometimes it’s where they end up in terms of the team and the coaching, but I think GB may have something in Sean Clifford.
That’s not to say Jordan Love can’t be the guy as it appears he did pretty well. But pressure and expectations can be funny sometimes. A guy like Clifford doesn’t have to live up to being picked in the first round. Shit, Love has to do that along with knowing he was taken to replace Aaron Rodgers.
@michiganjoe posted:Liked what I saw from Clifford but Brett Hundley offers a cautionary tale about reading too much into the preseason.
As do a gazzilion other preseason/training camp guys.
Hundley played in a gimmicky style of offense; Clifford much more pro style at Penn State. Not that it explains everything but if you think what each player was asked to do and how they had to play the position I think there’s something to it.
Ohio State churns out phenomenal skill position guys but who’s the last really good QB that came out of that school?
Michael Vick was a crazy good weapon as well but does anyone really think he or Justin Fields were decent throwers? I don’t.
Again, at Virginia Tech and Ohio State they weren’t asked to be complete QBs because honestly they didn’t have to be. No different than years at Wisconsin where the primary job of the QB was to take the snap and hand it off to the RB.
Running first QBs don’t have long careers in the NFL. Fields won’t make it to his next contract if he can’t develop and become a consistent threat in the passing game. That task is made a lot more difficult when the team around you isn’t very good. CJ Stroud will figure that out quickly playing for an awful Texans team.
@Tschmack posted:To me, the biggest unknowns or question marks coming into this season are QB and WR.
It’s tough not to get excited over a preseason game, but both groups made a lot of plays.
The Clifford thing is interesting because if you look at his college numbers he had a very good college career at a big time program. Won 70% of the games he started, completed 61% of his passes, and had nearly a 3-1 TD to INT ratio.
He’s not the elite athlete nor does he have a huge arm, but at a bare minimum he appears to have the makings of a solid backup. I think what does possess are A+ intangibles- work ethic, mental toughness, leadership, moxie, and poise. The term “gamer” gets thrown around but it’s a lot more than that.
It’s fascinating when you look at the QB position guys that pan out and guys that don’t. Sometimes it’s where they end up in terms of the team and the coaching, but I think GB may have something in Sean Clifford.
That’s not to say Jordan Love can’t be the guy as it appears he did pretty well. But pressure and expectations can be funny sometimes. A guy like Clifford doesn’t have to live up to being picked in the first round. Shit, Love has to do that along with knowing he was taken to replace Aaron Rodgers.
Tom Brady was a 7th round pick. As I recall, he had similar limitations as Clifford. Not saying Clifford is the second coming of Brady, but he looked awfully quick in his decision making, made a couple rookie mistakes, but overall looked very poised and unflappable. He’s got some intangibles to be excited about. At this point, and I know it’s early, he looks like a legit backup QB with potential for a lot more. Rookie QB’s don’t normally look this good.
JMHO, Clifford has the mental acuity to be a real QB, as opposed to the Hundleys and Fields of the league. That's what will separate him from the rest of the pretenders.
@Tschmack posted:He’s not the elite athlete nor does he have a huge arm, but at a bare minimum he appears to have the makings of a solid backup. I think what does possess are A+ intangibles- work ethic, mental toughness, leadership, moxie, and poise. The term “gamer” gets thrown around but it’s a lot more than that.
@antiworst posted:Justin Fields. I just read on a Bears site that he'll be a Hall of Famer, and if there's one thing Bears fans know, it's quarterbacks.
@michiganjoe posted:Liked what I saw from Clifford but Brett Hundley offers a cautionary tale about reading too much into the preseason.
And let's not forget he was playing mostly against scrubs. Cincy sat basically everyone who might start except rookies, and many were replaced by the time Clifford got in. He made hay against Allan George, a guy who's likely selling insurance in a couple of weeks (PI against Reed at goalline, long pass to Toure, 3rd down pass to Wicks, etc.) but threw two picks to a Special teamer/third-string safety.
He has a ways to go until he's even a viable backup QB.
Same as you shouldn't criticize Love for his performance. Jones had 0 rushes and Dillion had 2. Once we see the whole Packer offense Love and the rest will look a lot different.
@michiganjoe posted:Liked what I saw from Clifford but Brett Hundley offers a cautionary tale about reading too much into the preseason.
Clifford looked better than Hundley ever did. He’s closer to Taysom Hill as a guy who just balls out. Hill never amounted to much as a QB but he certainly made a niche for himself in the league.
It’s also important to remember it’s one game. He can build on this and become even better or he can revert and we just saw him jacked up in his hometown.
Nice route by Wicks but holy hell look at when this ball comes out by Sean Clifford. Talk about throwing with anticipation. pic.twitter.com/iQtNSRbNLX
— Andy Herman (@AndyHermanNFL) August 12, 2023
@michiganjoe posted:Liked what I saw from Clifford but Brett Hundley offers a cautionary tale about reading too much into the preseason.
You would rather they were good than not in the preseason, no? Makes no sense to form strong opinions over preseason games.
@Herschel posted:And let's not forget he was playing mostly against scrubs. Cincy sat basically everyone who might start except rookies, and many were replaced by the time Clifford got in. He made hay against Allan George, a guy who's likely selling insurance in a couple of weeks (PI against Reed at goalline, long pass to Toure, 3rd down pass to Wicks, etc.) but threw two picks to a Special teamer/third-string safety.
He has a ways to go until he's even a viable backup QB.
No one is expecting him to lead us to the Super Bowl. Completely unnecessary to bring up the fact that a ROOKIE was playing against other scrubs except to whine and be negative.
@Harry Manback posted:Tom Brady was a 7th round pick. As I recall, he had similar limitations as Clifford. Not saying Clifford is the second coming of Brady, but he looked awfully quick in his decision making, made a couple rookie mistakes, but overall looked very poised and unflappable. He’s got some intangibles to be excited about. At this point, and I know it’s early, he looks like a legit backup QB with potential for a lot more. Rookie QB’s don’t normally look this good.
That last sentence is it.
I think it does matter to some degree how Clifford played. T was his first game.
I also don’t care if they are 3rd stringers. Those guys are probably better than 80% of the caliber of players Clifford would have faced in college and it’s not like Penn State is in D3.
Yes we can get hyped up and overstate his performance but JFC have some faith and optimism. If I’m saying it then some of y’all need some anti depressant meds.
It would be hilarious to see not only Love succeed but Clifford as well along with our young WRs just to shut up the Rodgers ball washers and the anti Gute crowd.
I’m too fucking old to get excited about anything but an empty parking lot at Red Lobster at 5:00.
@Goalline posted:No one is expecting him to lead us to the Super Bowl. Completely unnecessary to bring up the fact that a ROOKIE was playing against other scrubs except to whine and be negative.
Yeah, who needs reality? He did some good, he did some bad, just like you'd expect a rookie in his first real pro action, and most of the guys he faced won't make the roster. Apparenty he's this year's Ruvell Martin.
@Tschmack posted:It would be hilarious to see not only Love succeed but Clifford as well along with our young WRs just to shut up the Rodgers ball washers and the anti Gute crowd.
What's really stupid is trying to make out like there's some dichotomy among fans where you have to pick a player's side and not waiver and thinking anyone actually hopes a player fails.
You know what would be great? Rodgers wins a Super Bowl in New York, Love becomes a good starting QB who eventually leads Green Bay to another Lombardi and Clifford turns in to a solid backup.
None of that has happened yet.
@Herschel posted:Yeah, who needs reality? He did some good, he did some bad, just like you'd expect a rookie in his first real pro action, and most of the guys he faced won't make the roster. Apparenty he's this year's Ruvell Martin.
Reality? Every whiner thinks they are just keeping it real. Really, what you were going on about was pretty fucking obvious. We were not impressed.
@Tschmack posted:I think it does matter to some degree how Clifford played. T was his first game.
I also don’t care if they are 3rd stringers. Those guys are probably better than 80% of the caliber of players Clifford would have faced in college and it’s not like Penn State is in D3.
Yes we can get hyped up and overstate his performance but JFC have some faith and optimism. If I’m saying it then some of y’all need some anti depressant meds.
It would be hilarious to see not only Love succeed but Clifford as well along with our young WRs just to shut up the Rodgers ball washers and the anti Gute crowd.
Are we seeing a new Tschmack here? Just yanking your chain a little here but that is the best post you have ever written. 
I just think Clifford is built for the big time NFL……. and really don’t hate me for this, BUT he does remind me a tad, just a dang tad of Bert Favor. He threw that INT right before the half and it didn’t bother him at all. He just has a different swagger then ♥️. I know, it’s way to early in the season, but, I like Clifford.
@Herschel posted:Seek counselling.
After reading your posts I need to. They are painful. Painfully poor.
@Blair Kiel posted:I’m too fucking old to get excited about anything but an empty parking lot at Red Lobster at 5:00.
You’re out of Touch
I actually don’t care if Rodgers succeeds or not. I don’t wish any physical harm to him but his antics about loving New York and giving back 30M and carrying on about how he’s all excited - basically demonstrating he’s all in- tells me he was half assing it the last few seasons in GB.
Best case scenario is he plays 65.1% of the snaps and the Jets go 0-16.
I appreciate what he did for the Packers but fuck that guy. We have a team again - not an individual more interested in going on podcasts than helping his team get better.
So yeah- it’s actually sort of fun again to follow this team and see how things develop with these younger guys.
Clifford isn’t a guy that threw a ton of picks in college. He took some chances, and plays with a lot of swagger, but I can see where some may compare to Brent in terms of his intangibles. He’s very emotional and loves to play and guys respond to his leadership.
@Tschmack posted:Clifford isn’t a guy that threw a ton of picks in college. He took some chances, and plays with a lot of swagger, but I can see where some may compare to Brent in terms of his intangibles. He’s very emotional and loves to play and guys respond to his leadership.
Agreed, and like I said, it's early, but he has that "it" factor. I've watched a lot of NFL football, a lot of preseasons, and hoped on a lot of prospects. I've never seen a Packers rookie QB come out and do what he did in that game. Yes, there were the interceptions, but man was he quick with his reads, knew where everyone was, hit the open man, ran when he had to, sensed the blitz, was mostly very accurate, and threw with some heat - he did not look like a rookie. I thought it was fantastic. I never saw anything like that with Love, just sayin'. I know it's one game, so we'll see, but there's a lot to be excited about with this guy.
@Harry Manback posted:Agreed, and like I said, it's early, but he has that "it" factor. I've watched a lot of NFL football, a lot of preseasons, and hoped on a lot of prospects. I've never seen a Packers rookie QB come out and do what he did in that game. Yes, there were the interceptions, but man was he quick with his reads, knew where everyone was, hit the open man, ran when he had to, sensed the blitz, was mostly very accurate, and threw with some heat - he did not look like a rookie. I thought it was fantastic. I never saw anything like that with Love, just sayin'. I know it's one game, so we'll see, but there's a lot to be excited about with this guy.
My thoughts exactly. 
For the win.
@Harry Manback posted:Agreed, and like I said, it's early, but he has that "it" factor. I've watched a lot of NFL football, a lot of preseasons, and hoped on a lot of prospects. I've never seen a Packers rookie QB come out and do what he did in that game. Yes, there were the interceptions, but man was he quick with his reads, knew where everyone was, hit the open man, ran when he had to, sensed the blitz, was mostly very accurate, and threw with some heat - he did not look like a rookie. I thought it was fantastic. I never saw anything like that with Love, just sayin'. I know it's one game, so we'll see, but there's a lot to be excited about with this guy.
Love and Clifford have very different play styles. Clifford obviously looks like Favre and Love looks more like Rodgers. Both styles are obviously effective.
I watched some cutups of other rookies, CJ Stroud, Brice Young, Anthony Richadrson, etc. Clifford just looked better. You can say it was against scrubs and certainly nobody expects Clifford to surpass any of those guys but he definitely seems to be one of the better backup QB prospects we've had in a while. Only question is if he can keep the momentum rolling.
The way I see it, it's not so much about playing against "scrubs" or starters, it's more about the execution or the 'mechanics' of the play.
Was the play called correctly, did the QB take the proper drop, make the correct read, was the throw correct, etc., etc.
If all that stuff is sound, it should work against the higher skilled guys the same as it would against backups or 'fringe' players.
@Tschmack posted:To me, the biggest unknowns or question marks coming into this season are QB and WR.
It’s tough not to get excited over a preseason game, but both groups made a lot of plays.
The Clifford thing is interesting because if you look at his college numbers he had a very good college career at a big time program. Won 70% of the games he started, completed 61% of his passes, and had nearly a 3-1 TD to INT ratio.
He’s not the elite athlete nor does he have a huge arm, but at a bare minimum he appears to have the makings of a solid backup. I think what does possess are A+ intangibles- work ethic, mental toughness, leadership, moxie, and poise. The term “gamer” gets thrown around but it’s a lot more than that.
It’s fascinating when you look at the QB position guys that pan out and guys that don’t. Sometimes it’s where they end up in terms of the team and the coaching, but I think GB may have something in Sean Clifford.
That’s not to say Jordan Love can’t be the guy as it appears he did pretty well. But pressure and expectations can be funny sometimes. A guy like Clifford doesn’t have to live up to being picked in the first round. Shit, Love has to do that along with knowing he was taken to replace Aaron Rodgers.
@Tschmack posted:I think it does matter to some degree how Clifford played. T was his first game.
I also don’t care if they are 3rd stringers. Those guys are probably better than 80% of the caliber of players Clifford would have faced in college and it’s not like Penn State is in D3.
Yes we can get hyped up and overstate his performance but JFC have some faith and optimism. If I’m saying it then some of y’all need some anti depressant meds.
It would be hilarious to see not only Love succeed but Clifford as well along with our young WRs just to shut up the Rodgers ball washers and the anti Gute crowd.
@Tschmack posted:I actually don’t care if Rodgers succeeds or not. I don’t wish any physical harm to him but his antics about loving New York and giving back 30M and carrying on about how he’s all excited - basically demonstrating he’s all in- tells me he was half assing it the last few seasons in GB.
Best case scenario is he plays 65.1% of the snaps and the Jets go 0-16.
I appreciate what he did for the Packers but fuck that guy. We have a team again - not an individual more interested in going on podcasts than helping his team get better.
So yeah- it’s actually sort of fun again to follow this team and see how things develop with these younger guys.
Hey, man... just who are you, and what have you done with Tschmack???
@Timmy! posted:The way I see it, it's not so much about playing against "scrubs" or starters, it's more about the execution or the 'mechanics' of the play.
Was the play called correctly, did the QB take the proper drop, make the correct read, was the throw correct, etc., etc.
If all that stuff is sound, it should work against the higher skilled guys the same as it would against backups or 'fringe' players.
Agreed. Backups are going to be playing against backups in pre season, especially. How you do against like competition is an indicator of how well you'll do against better competition. Point is, Clifford stood out against the competition at his level big time. The other point is, that kind of performance isn't normal for a rookie QB in his first game.