#7 seed

GBFanForLife posted:

Pistol GB posted:

Nigel's last turnover, which gave ND the game, was a choke. A very bad decision at the worst possible time kind of defines the word "choke." It happens to the best of them. 

 

 

Pathetic. Choke? or doing what he was supposed to do, Dribble, get the foul call or make a pass off the dribble. Do you want him just to stand there and give the ball up after 5 seconds?

Way to quote half the post and go off on it. You answer your own question. As did I in the rest of the post: They had to foul him, and it was nowhere near 5 seconds. He did it right away. He waits even a couple seconds they would have fouled, or he could have gotten a pass off, or at the very least if there is a 5 second violation we can set up a defense. We had the lead. And the possession arrow on a jump ball.

And If you are going to dribble, which I'm sure he regrets now and which he did way too soon, you don't do it directly into 3 defenders like that. He gave them exactly the gift they needed.

You really want to take the position that was a good play on Nigel's part? Because every sportscaster I've seen showing the replay disagrees.

I don't feel like belaboring the point, but Nigel's head was not in the game the whole night, including at the end. I know he didn't do it on purpose, and I feel for him and the whole team. It is a terrible way to lose.

What I really don't feel like doing, however, is arguing it with the likes of you. So how about we both just **** off and call it even? It sucked.

MichiganPacker2 posted:

Badgers had 17 turnovers. 

Easy to focus on the end-of-game collapse but that's the loss right there. Uncharacteristically sloppy with the ball all night and in the end it cost them.

Not sure if the 5 second rule applies in the backcourt

5 second closely guarded has never applied in the backcourt.  I am pretty sure that the 5 second rule was eliminated completely this year from college.  In all, Nigel could have held the ball and been fouled, tied up - Badgers had possession, or called time-out - Badgers had 2.  Pretty easy, though, from my seat, while not being in the line of fire.  In all, I think it was a great season that just happened to end with too many turnovers.  Hopefully they improve over the off-season, and I would think that they will start the season top 15.  

5 Second rule has never applied in the backcourt, & yes the 5 second "closely guarded", now only applies when holding (not dribbling) in the front court. The two mistakes made on the play in question were 1) Hayes caught the ball too deep in the corner, which is easy to trap 2) NEVER dribble off the first pass vs. a 1-2-1-1 press since you know the man on the ball is going to double you & any pass off the dribble is more difficult than one off a pivoting stationary position . 

Hayes was fouled. Pure and simple. In the scramble for the ball, a 3rd ND defender flew in and collided with him. Call it an offensive foul, illegal pick, whatever you want. An offensive player without the ball cannot simply fly into a defender and put him on the ground while the player with the ball escapes to the basket for a layup.

Koenig's turnover was a rake across the arm combined with body contact. Also a foul. Happ fouled out, and most of his fouls  involved less contact (not the last one, which was just a foolish play). 

ND was getting an awful lot of help in the second half, culminated in the final 30 seconds when the established rules of the officiating crew were 180-ed to allow ND the advantage. 

El-Ka-Bong posted:

Pritzl and Van Vliet will be just what this team needs, a three point threat and a 7 foot tall three point threat.  A sophomore jump from Iverson and Ilkanain/Thomas and they should be back in the sweet 16

Absolutely... And don't forget the seniors too. Hayes/Brown/Koenig should remember this feeling like Dekker/Gasser/Kamnsky/Jackson remembered losing to Kentucky. They used it as fuel. 

Iverson has a chance to be truly special. He has a very nice game, but he needs to be able to shoot to become more dangerous. It's all there, though. 

Brown made a big jump this year. Work on the footwork and make another  jump. 

I thought there was ample contact on Hayes just after the steal.  A player hit his mid-section and it was far from soft contact.

We fans of Wisconsin sports teams sure endure our share of really tough losses.

personally, i think Ilkanain should RS next season.  It's not unheard of to do this in your 2nd season.  I just think his minutes will be light and he could use the extra year of seasoning.  

Van Vliet and Pritzl will be welcome additions.  Pritzl will fill Smith's spot and Van Vliet would potentially eat into Ilakanain's minutes (not sure which is better - haven't seen enough of Van Vliet).

Now if #10 goes pro, because this draft class is much weaker versus next years class, then it opens up more PT... but I would think he'd come back to school and try to fix his broke ass jumper/morph into a draymond green type prospect (to push himself into the late 1st round and get that guaranteed deal).  He isn't getting that after this season (i'd think).

Hayes is not a very good NBA prospect at this point especially with how he played down the stretch.   He's probably a 2nd round pick even in a weak draft class.  

He would be better served coming back to work on his shot. 

Assuming Happ and Vitto Brown improve this could be a very good team next season.  

As a casual observer of Wisc., but a 30 year coach of the game, it looks to me that Hayes is worried too much about developing the perimeter skills that he thinks he needs,  to impress the pro scouts. 

I'm certainly no expert, but it looks to me that when Hayes does take the ball inside, he's looking to draw the foul first, and make the shot second.  I get that drawing fouls is a skill, but I'd rather see a guy concentrate on making the shot.

Tschmack posted:

Hayes is not a very good NBA prospect at this point especially with how he played down the stretch.  He's probably a 2nd round pick even in a weak draft class.  

Hayes is not remotely close to ready to play in the 'league.' He has the choice of riding buses in the D-League or coming back to likely a preseason top-10 team and Big Ten favorite.

I do understand the draw of the money but I don't think Hayes came from a family that desperately needs financial support (feel free to correct this).

He is often overmatched inside against good teams in college and his shot isn't ready to be an even average perimeter player.

There was a column comparing his decision with Clement's decision this fall. The column made some great points but I don't think they are comparable. Clement's season was ruined by injury while Hayes' healthy year just proved he isn't ready.

Clement has always been a consistent, top tier player.  Maybe not Melvin Gordon like, but still very good and could start on just about any college football team.  He's just been able to stay healthy. 

Hayes is not that same guy.  After last season he looked like someone that could take the NCAAs by storm, but he regressed badly this year and is currently nothing more than an average to above average player at times.  He's got a lot of talent and could become a top 20 pick but he needs to regain his focus and get better. 

The preceding posts about Nigel are true.

I'm glad he is a Badger, but the truth is, he has some growing up to do.  I think this year was too much pressure on him, and another year of college will do a world of good for everyone.

The team won't be as stacked as last years team was, but it should definitely be top 10-15 worthy to start next season.. Heck, maybe even top 5 returning everyone and considering how they ended the year.

Pistol GB posted:

The preceding posts about Nigel are true.

I'm glad he is a Badger, but the truth is, he has some growing up to do.  I think this year was too much pressure on him, and another year of college will do a world of good for everyone.

The sad thing is, their role players were playing well enough for a Final Four run, but their two stars with the in-game experience from last year came up small far too often in the tournament. 

And came up big, I guess.

Nigel completely lost his shooting touch (agree with some of they "playing for contact" comments above), but it's not like he disappeared (unless scoring is your only way to assess a impact).  Nigel, in particular, played some fantastic defense Badger fans seem to disregard.  

I hoped for more from Bronson as well, but some Badger fans talk like he disappeared this year.  I expect Nigel to be playing alongside Bronson next year, and I expect big results.  Pritzl brings a much needed dimension with his shooting, and VV brings the shooting big man back to the swing.  Now, getting to the final four is hard, but this should be the kind of team that can do it.  

I agree. The pieces are in place. 

Maybe I'm way off but to me Bronson's problem was is he a shooting guard or a point guard?   Not a lot of teams have a guy who is both all the time.  Showy could shoot but not a consistent 12-15 a night.  And he was not that good of a ball handler either.  Sure wish we had another Rick Olson. 

Bronson was the best shooter on the team, which occasionally left Nigel to be the point forward.  Again, adding two shooters in Pritzl and VV will make a huge difference. 

Improvement in 3 point shooting is what will be the difference between a Big 10 Championship level team or a #7-9 seed in the NCAA. The rotation this year was made up of one guy the other team didn't want to give up an open look from 3 (Koenig) and a bunch of guys who were adequate, but not great, 3 point shooters (Showalter, Hayes, Brown, and J. Hill) along with 2 guys with no range (Happ and Iverson). 

They will probably never have the shooting they had in 2014-15 when virtually every player was a great 3 point shooter (Frank, Gasser, Dukan, Koenig) or a good 3 point shooter (Hayes, Dekker, and T. Jackson). 

I hope people are correct about Pritzl and Van Vliet because at least one other guy that defenses have to be designed to prevent from getting open looks (other than Koenig) will make a huge difference. Maybe Hill gets better. Vitto was solid this year, but his shot just looks too flat to be a consistent Gasser/Brust/Koenig level threat. 

Hayes' defense is huge because he's the only guy in the rotation that was solid enough to play post-up players. Happ was good, but he wasn't quite developed enough strength-wise to hold up. Maybe Iverson can replace Hayes' defense if he goes pro, but I think Hayes will be back. I don't think a year will make much difference, Nigel is a 6'8" guy who will have to play guys that are 3-4 inches taller than him in the NBA and I don't think he will ever have that skill set. Someone said he's another Mike Wilkinson and I think that's a good comparison. Great college player, not an NBA guy. 

I don't think Hayes is 6'8... More like 6'5", 6'6"... 

That's just it, MC.  What is Hayes actual height?  I thought he was a 6'8" power forward, but he had seemed to play smaller at times this past year.  So, let's get out the tape measure!   Better yet, have all the players walk in front of one of those police line-up backgrounds and then we'll really know for sure.   Make sure they are barefoot, too.

I agree on Hayes' actual height. Sam Dekker measured just under 6'8" for his NBA draft physical.

2015 NBA Draft Combine Measurements Analysis

May 13, 2015

-Sam Dekker: The Wisconsin forward measured 6'7.75 without shoes, which matches the height he posted last summer when his growth was a point of interest. He's lost 10 pounds since then, which is interesting considering he wasn't carrying much extra weight on his frame. at 219 points with just a 7.5% body fat percentage, he has plenty of room on his frame to continue to add bulk, which he certainly will at the NBA level.

Here's a good side by side picture of the two. There is no way Hayes is the same height as Dekker.

What is Dekker standing on? 

I'll put this here.

I was only able to watch Villanova-Oklahoma until ~15m left in the game.  They were up by the same margin as at halftime, 14 points.

And they win by 44?  Outscored Oklahoma by 30 in 15m?  Man.  And most pundits picked the Sooners to take the game.

Anyway, what a performance and I'd like to see them take down NC.

Studying for our finance exam tomorrow b/c some of us are going pro in something other than sports. #AthleticStudent pic.twitter.com/HXZ2jVVUba

— Nigel Hayes (@NIGEL_HAYES) April 7, 2016

"No, there's not any news. I mean, just had my coaches meeting, the people around me know. Really, the gist of it, though, is -- I was just telling the guys -- I would love to come back, my plan is to come back. But, you know, the whole 'testing the waters' thing is what it is, it's you testing the waters. That's why they changed this rule now, to allow players to be able to do that. So I'm just going to continue from now on until the combine -- if I'm invited, that is -- work to become the best player I can be and go there, perform. Whatever may happen with that, happens. If nothing comes from that, then, you know, I'm looking forward to having a terrific senior season."

link

Nigel- stay in school. The NBA is going to be a tough place for you to make a career...

Declaring for the draft, not hiring an agent.  

Wisconsin's Nigel Hayes' measured at 6-6 1/4 and weighed 245. Has an enormous 7-3 wingspan -- eighth longest among combine participants.

— Gery Woelfel (@GeryWoelfel) May 12, 2016

too small to play PF in the NBA ?  He's not Charles Barkley either.

He's barely a PF in college 

His future should be in Europe... which isn't so bad. Rashard made a nice living there- some other Badgers too. No shame in that game...

7 3 wingspan on a 6 6 dude? Wow!

He's remarkably almost the same size of Kawhi Leonard. Kawhi also has a 7'3" wingspan and is 6'6". 

Kawhi is also a small forward. 

If only Nigel played like him...

Two guys nearly every NBA guy I have spoken to here at Combine agree need to go back to school: Melo Trimble and Nigel Hayes.

— Jeff Goodman (@GoodmanESPN) May 13, 2016