Always interesting to me when the reporters talk with each other. There's always that off the record information that they hint around
@Goalline posted:It is said that QBs get too much of a blame and too much credit for the team’s success. I disagree! Those fuckers have that ball on half the snaps. The one who recognizes the team concept and helps the TEAM, wins. Fuck MVPs. It is a contrived award. Rodgers won that Super Bowl and it became about him. I’ve been pissed at this guy since 2018 for his lack of leadership and lack of teamwork. Welcome to the club, guys.
Are there annual dues or do you take a lump sum?
@Ghost of Lambeau posted:My favorite was Bart Starr - I know, showing my age. But unlike Favre or Rodgers; he didn't try playing GM, didn't think he had to be in on football discussions, and he was nice to everyone thru the end of his career. As a player he won 5 NFL titles, and the first 2 SBs. Hard to beat that - just ask Favre & Rodgers - unless they want to blame someone or something else.
I don’t know if he can win in the NFL, but from the little I know of Love he seems to have the closest temperament to 15 of our last three starters. We had the partier and then the perfectionist, hopefully 10 ends up being the pragmatist. I don't think he gets near enough credit for his patience over the last three seasons. I credit 12 for treating him well, but from what we know 10 also didn't walk in the door and start calling him grandpa. Rodgers is far from shy about who he doesn't like. It means a significant something that Love came in and earned his respect.
I remember hearing a discussion with Ernie Accorsi where he talked about QB competitions. He said ultimately the players naturally know who the best leader is and it's unwise for a coaching staff and front office to force the issue against their wishes. Gutekunst has essentially cleared the runway for Love to take off. There's no other hot sh*t prospect with a cannon arm or electric scrambling he has to worry about. They are pot committed to 10 ascending this season. How he plays and the rest of the team responds to how he plays is how we know if has the ethereal 'it'.
Hmmm..... 2021 off season. "Rumored" trade to Denver signed sealed annndd....stop - Right.....no link or anyone writing about it.
I'm certain there was nothing to that.
Watch Gutey say all the right things when they signed Rodgers to that deal. Bite his tongue when asked about signing Randall Cobb.
I continue to gain respect for the job Gutey has done wanting to see this thing through.
Remember this.....the truth always comes out - it takes time but we always find out the real story.
@Grave Digger posted:Gute may end up being a failure, he's obviously not perfect, but I give the guy credit for having the nuts to rid this organization of such a whiney baby. Probably did the next GM and coach a huge favor. 2 GMs, 2 HCs, 4 or 5 defensive coordinators, all pro players, pro bowl players, but 1 constant through the last 14 years informing the culture. We spend time arguing about signing free agents and who to draft and who should be coaching as if 1 players or 1 coach is going to change everything, but maybe the culture emanating from the greatest player in franchise history
was as much to blame for lack of championships as coaching incompetence or lack of talent. Brady and Manning won more with equal or less.
Au contraire about there being just 1 constant over the last 14 years informing the culture.
There is a certain Team President/CEO who, by the time the mindless accolades finally stop pouring in during his extended retirement tour in July 2025, will have been in charge of the Packers' organization for seventeen (17) years.
He was the man who allowed Ted Thompson to remain in place years after Ted was medically incapable of performing his duties and the same one who allowed his prima donna QB to demand that his GM get fired without consequences.
Gutey staked his position by using his 2020 1st and 4th round picks on Jordan Love. Right, wrong, or indifferent, Gutey let the world know he wanted to move on from #12.
That Murph apparently thwarted Gutey's desire to trade Rodge after the 2021 season (when everyone should have known that getting to another Super Bowl with #12 was not gonna happen - especially knowing that Adams was not returning) and then gave Rodge a huge new contract is nearly as damning an indictment of his reign as his refusal to step in and take charge when Ted Thompson was so obviously in decline.
In the end, there was but one individual who held power over Thompson, Gutey, McCarthy, MLF, Favre, and Rodgers and everyone else employed by the Green Bay Packers since December of 2007.
Murph promised multiple upcoming Super Bowls over his final 3 seasons when he announced his retirement just 10 months ago. In reality, he will have presided over a 14-year Super Bowl drought when his hand-picked successor finally succeeds him.
I can only hope that successor cares far more about competing for and winning Lombardis than Mark Murphy did.
Murphy is more like a traditional owner in that he cares more about money coming into the organization and community. Championships take second fiddle. Hopefully Murphy can be replaced with a guy who wants to win. Talking out loud, I wonder how Woodson would do in the role.
The business side is the survival side for the Packers. Developing revenue streams they don't share with the rest of the league is essential if they want to compete in the future. There's no deep pocket billionaire spending his life's fortune to keep the infrastructure competitive with the league standard. There may come a time where the other 31 teams say no to letting the Packers pass the hat around with a stock sale the next time they want to raise money.
Murphy might be socially awkward and I disagree vehemently with the silo strategy, but saying championships take second fiddle is a bit much. There's nothing better for business then another trophy going in the case. There's nothing better for his personal legacy than another trophy going in the case. It's flat out ridiculously hard to win championships. No owner cares more about winning the next one than Jerry Jones and he fails season after season.
I'm as disappointed as anyone there aren't more Lombardi trophies where they most belong, but I'm also extremely grateful for having the memories of the Packers winning two. There's sports fans that go from cradle to grave without ever seeing one.
@titmfatied posted:They are pot committed to 10 ascending this season.
<added to x4 glossary>
The #1 priority for the Packers, more so than any other NFL team, IS to stay financially viable. Without that there isn't even hope for a ship, maybe not even a team in GB. Hard to fault Murphy for his efforts in that arena. The other things that he has stumbled through are also important but saying he's more focused on money than winning, or that his management has suffered because of his focus on finances, is a bit of an oxymoron in this case.
Both-sidesing the Vikings? I don't even know you anymore.
@titmfatied posted:I'm as disappointed as anyone there aren't more Lombardi trophies where they most belong, but I'm also extremely grateful for having the memories of the Packers winning two. There's sports fans that go from cradle to grave without ever seeing one.
Well said. I am with you on the disappointments and trust me it hurts but those times came from my team being in the mix for the bulk of 30 years. I remember the previous 25 years of suckitude too well so that is why I treasure the memory of 2 super bowl wins so highly.
I live in Ohio and am surrounded by Bengals and Browns fans and they have lived their entire lifetime not having won one. They all tell me they would be happy to experience the chokes the Packers have done in exchange for ONE win much less two.
@Shadow posted:Are there annual dues or do you take a lump sum?
Your dues are overdue.
@titmfatied posted:The business side is the survival side for the Packers. Developing revenue streams they don't share with the rest of the league is essential if they want to compete in the future. There's no deep pocket billionaire spending his life's fortune to keep the infrastructure competitive with the league standard. There may come a time where the other 31 teams say no to letting the Packers pass the hat around with a stock sale the next time they want to raise money.
Murphy might be .........without ever seeing one.
I mentioned this before, and I think it very often gets overlooked. Without a deep-pocketed owner, the Packers really need to be fiscally responsible, more so than other professional franchise.
Yeah but the other owners are crying about "selling stock" saying it's an unfair advantage
🖕🏼🖕🏼🖕🏼🖕🏼🖕🏼🖕🏼🖕🏼
Because all of us working together from all parts of the globe means the Packers are trillionaires. 😁
Hi Jerry! 🖕🏼
---------------
Back on topic.....
https://jetsxfactor.com/2023/0...per-bowl-predict-qb/
😆 Good old Adam Schein.
Based on the replies most will be sad to see Murphy retire now?
I think a lot of people are giving Gute a free pass. I think he was part of the original problem with poor communication although maybe it wouldn't have mattered if Rodgers is as difficult to deal with as he appears to be. The fact that Gute never discussed drafting a QB with Rodgers is pretty damning though and makes me question if he is a bit out of touch. The timing of the Love choice was odd as was MLF's reaction on TV. I don't blame Rodgers for being a little miffed as it seems Gute missed the mark big time and that a basic common courtesy could have gone a long way in preventing some of the shitstorm that followed. Either way, Gute has hitched his wagon to Love and his legacy and longevity as a GM will likely depend on the success or failure of such.
IF he would have consulted TOOG before drafting Love nothing would be different. TOOG would have been PO’ed either way IMO. He seems to be the kind of guy who can’t let go (other than girls).
@13X posted:I think a lot of people are giving Gute a free pass. I think he was part of the original problem with poor communication although maybe it wouldn't have mattered if Rodgers is as difficult to deal with as he appears to be. The fact that Gute never discussed drafting a QB with Rodgers is pretty damning though and makes me question if he is a bit out of touch. The timing of the Love choice was odd as was MLF's reaction on TV. I don't blame Rodgers for being a little miffed as it seems Gute missed the mark big time and that a basic common courtesy could have gone a long way in preventing some of the shitstorm that followed. Either way, Gute has hitched his wagon to Love and his legacy and longevity as a GM will likely depend on the success or failure of such.
Rodgers didn't deserve a heads up on the Love pick anymore than Favre got with the Rodgers pick. Rodgers ego is the entire problem more so than Gutey not communicating well. It's obvious Rodgers simply didn't like Gutey, who probably wasn't the guy Rodgers wanted as GM. I'm sure Rodgers knew Gutey several years before he became GM and with Rodgers his dislike for Gutey could be as simple as he wanted Elliot Wolf to get the job. Somewhere along the line Rodgers got it in his head that he was running things.
@PackerRick posted:Rodgers didn't deserve a heads up on the Love pick anymore than Favre got with the Rodgers pick. Rodgers ego is the entire problem more so than Gutey not communicating well.
It’s really this simple.
Aaron may play ten more years since he went to New York especially if he has a little success. He is currently adored by the masses and can swap spit with the movie stars, rub elbows with the rich and famous like him, and get tickets to the ritzy glitzy places Manhatten has to offer. He probably feels like he has died and gone to heaven. And of course the Jets management is kissing his Ass. bending the knee, and kissing the ring daily so he can feel loved and adored by the people he likes. Favre hated Ted Thompson for how is tenure ended in GB and now AR hates Gutey for what happened. Hopefully the future shows Gutey was as right as Ted was.
@The Heckler posted:Well said. I am with you on the disappointments and trust me it hurts but those times came from my team being in the mix for the bulk of 30 years. I remember the previous 25 years of suckitude too well so that is why I treasure the memory of 2 super bowl wins so highly.
I live in Ohio and am surrounded by Bengals and Browns fans and they have lived their entire lifetime not having won one. They all tell me they would be happy to experience the chokes the Packers have done in exchange for ONE win much less two.
It might be redundant to say on a Packers message board, but the two titles most of us have enjoyed, as well as the disappointment of "only" two, can't be put into context without the suckitude of the 70s and 80s. In eastern PA, I was fortunate enough to MAYBE see GB once a year on MNF. And even on the occasions it did happen, it was far more simply a reminder that the team still existed, let alone that they would be expected to win the game. During the years in which I was shut out from seeing any Packers game, the only proof that they were still in the league came once a year inside the annual Sears catalog. It was most certainly a different world, but nonetheless a world where the organization was 1000% a laughing stock.
Once you experience one championship, titles become more relative. You get one, of course you want two. You get two, you want the third. The case has been made a million times over that GB should have beaten Elway for a second ring. And that Rodgers SHOULD have gotten to a second SB. Very disappointing, no doubt. But I still clearly remember 1992-95. As exciting as it was, as each year they inched closer to relevance, it ended with a loss in that trash Dallas stadium. Not once or twice, three f'ing times straight. As worthy of respect as they had become, there was still nothing to guarantee they'd advance any further. And honestly, idk if a 5 year stretch could happen in such a way today, one that resulted in 2 SB appearances. Maybe it will be so for the Bengals, but it could just as easily blow up as well.
So now, the trope of "you Packer fans are spoiled" is actually upon us. I hate that lazy comment every time I see it. As if we didn't know wtf we've had for so long. I'd say the frustration comes from fully understanding how hard it is. There's been a standard now for 25-30 years. Prior to that, the standard was "there's still a team in GB?" We've always been the underdog simply by existing. And now we are again. I can't stress how much I relish that position now, with another unproven talent as the starting qb. It couldn't happen had Rodgers not been so good for so long. But it also couldn't happen if 1265 continued pacifying the ego. He made it to the place he belongs at 39 yrs old. Good luck to him and I'll be rooting for the young buck in Titletown.
It may be that Gute was not as good a communicator as he could have been; few of us are great communicators, and Gute was a new GM. But if you're that miffed about it, you sit down with the guy and flat-out tell him how you feel -- especially if you're the star QB and you obviously consider yourself a world-class communicator as Rodgers does. Rodgers going all passive-aggressive, pissy, and acting as if it was his FO to run was a huge problem, and I think that story has yet to be told.
Also, I'm just glad to be rid of the Rodgers attitude: the arms in the air after a miss, the scowls at the sideline and/or WR as if they were always at fault, the sitting by himself like he's above it all, etc. When he played his best games last year (especially the Dallas game), he was running down the field after plays, smiling, no histrionics, etc., and the whole team played better. Which is probably how he'll play this year. If they don't win it all...
@Fandame posted:It may be that Gute was not as good a communicator as he could have been; few of us are great communicators, and Gute was a new GM. But if you're that miffed about it, you sit down with the guy and flat-out tell him how you feel -- especially if you're the star QB and you obviously consider yourself a world-class communicator as Rodgers does. Rodgers going all passive-aggressive, pissy, and acting as if it was his FO to run was a huge problem, and I think that story has yet to be told.
Also, I'm just glad to be rid of the Rodgers attitude: the arms in the air after a miss, the scowls at the sideline and/or WR as if they were always at fault, the sitting by himself like he's above it all, etc. When he played his best games last year (especially the Dallas game), he was running down the field after plays, smiling, no histrionics, etc., and the whole team played better. Which is probably how he'll play this year. If they don't win it all...
I'm glad to be done with Rodgers and his arrogance as well. It was time for sure. I just think Gute could have handled things much better than he did.
@13X posted:I think a lot of people are giving Gute a free pass. I think he was part of the original problem with poor communication...
Until you posted this I thought you were a major Gute backer. What a shock to see you blaming him for shit!
I think that if it was Gute who left the org 95% of y'all would be shit talking him instead of Rodgers. I get it, we're fans of the org first. That said, Gute is no TT, he handled this like a coward. TT would have traded him to the Broncos and we would be swimming in top round draft picks with Love having a year of experience under his belt.
@PackerRick posted:It's obvious Rodgers simply didn't like Gutey, who probably wasn't the guy Rodgers wanted as GM. I'm sure Rodgers knew Gutey several years before he became GM and with Rodgers his dislike for Gutey could be as simple as he wanted Elliot Wolf to get the job. Somewhere along the line Rodgers got it in his head that he was running things.
One of Rodgers main issues was how GB treated vet's going out the door. Guys like Jordy, Bulaga, Cobb, TJ Lang, etc. He felt the Packers should have kept these aging players or offered them better contracts after hitting 30.
Sorry, Aaron. That's not only not the way it should work in GB, it's not the way it works in the NFL. Period.
When he went on that rant a couple of years ago whining about vet's the Packers should have kept, IIRC only 1, Charles Woodson, could you have argued the Packers could have kept another 1-3 years. But honestly, where GB failed was not adequately replacing Woodson with a competent starter at Safety.
Rodgers had friendships with these guys and they were his BFF's at one point. A good GM simply does not let their emotions dictate whether or not to keep an aging player.
That's precisely why Rodgers isn't GM and would make a terrible one. Just look at the players on his Jets roster he didn't demand
that are now wasting roster spots on his team.
@BrainDed posted:I think that if it was Gute who left the org 95% of y'all would be shit talking him instead of Rodgers. I get it, we're fans of the org first. That said, Gute is no TT, he handled this like a coward. TT would have traded him to the Broncos and we would be swimming in top round draft picks with Love having a year of experience under his belt.
It's rather convenient you leave out the power TT had that Gute does not thanks to this idiotic Triangle of Idiocy Murphy created.
Thompson had complete control and needed to answer to one when it came to roster moves and the draft.
Additionally, you assume Ted would have traded a then, current back-to-back MVP. In the history of the NFL, that had never happened. Not to mention that same MVP plays the most important position in the game.
@BrainDed posted:I think that if it was Gute who left the org 95% of y'all would be shit talking him instead of Rodgers. I get it, we're fans of the org first. That said, Gute is no TT, he handled this like a coward. TT would have traded him to the Broncos and we would be swimming in top round draft picks with Love having a year of experience under his belt.
And TT's silent persona being more successful was two-fold:
1. He had more gravitas.
2. He actually held power, not this silo crap.
McCarthy was also a pretty strong face, not that LaFleur isn't very good in front of the camera. He is, but "Pittsburgh Macho" did seem to have the "Go ahead, make me the bad guy" thing in spades.
@BrainDed posted:I think that if it was Gute who left the org 95% of y'all would be shit talking him instead of Rodgers. I get it, we're fans of the org first. That said, Gute is no TT, he handled this like a coward. TT would have traded him to the Broncos and we would be swimming in top round draft picks with Love having a year of experience under his belt.
I think you’re right that Ted would have pulled the trigger, I think that was the failing of a young GM. I don’t think he would ever make that mistake again. If Gute wins a SB then he’s a hero, like Ted, and if he doesn’t then he’s a fool, that’s how fine the line is for GM’s. Howie Roseman would be a joke if he didn’t have a SB under his belt, but right now he’s the best GM in the league. Gute has about as mixed a track record as every GM, but good ones win it all and fired GMs don’t. Simple as that. I bet Ted communicated about as well with Brett as Gute did with Aaron. I’m not a Gute supporter necessarily, but I don’t think he’s the root cause of us not winning championships. It started long before him and I think we can finally build a new culture that is hopefully SB caliber.
Rodgers' job is to play football. Not cry about who gets drafted.
The draft is a living breathing moving thing. Nobody knows how the draft is going to fall until it happens that night. Gutey saw a player available (who was wanted by Seattle and Indy) and he felt it was good value at that spot.
Gutey doesn't need to "clear it" with his highness #12
FFS I've heard it all now
@Fandame posted:It may be that Gute was not as good a communicator as he could have been; few of us are great communicators, and Gute was a new GM. But if you're that miffed about it, you sit down with the guy and flat-out tell him how you feel -- especially if you're the star QB and you obviously consider yourself a world-class communicator as Rodgers does. Rodgers going all passive-aggressive, pissy, and acting as if it was his FO to run was a huge problem, and I think that story has yet to be told.
The way the Packer front office is constructed Gutey probably didn't what he could or couldn't say to Rodgers. Piss him off and he goes to Ball and Murphy and Gutey is outvoted 2-1.
Murphy strikes me as the peacekeeper that would pacify Rodgers until he flat out couldn't. I think he finally caved in and let Gutey trade Rodgers like he wanted to the season before.
@13X posted:I'm glad to be done with Rodgers and his arrogance as well. It was time for sure. I just think Gute could have handled things much better than he did.
When the HOF player goes around you demanding that you be fired I'm not sure how it could have been handled differently. It's too bad Love wasn't more prepared after the 2021 season because then we could have avoided this circus act and landed a windfall of talent.
@Goalline posted:Fuck MVPs. It is a contrived award.
Truer words have ne'er been spoken.
The media anoints their MVP the very first week of the season--if not before--and then hype their guy(s) the rest of the year.
With that said, it's quite a 'trophy' for a player, and I hope all of our guys aspire to play at that level. But, no matter who wins it, I'll take with a grain of salt.
@BrainDed posted:I think that if it was Gute who left the org 95% of y'all would be shit talking him instead of Rodgers. I get it, we're fans of the org first. That said, Gute is no TT, he handled this like a coward. TT would have traded him to the Broncos and we would be swimming in top round draft picks with Love having a year of experience under his belt.
Agreed! TT Traded Favre for boatload of whaaaa?????
@Grave Digger posted:I think you’re right that Ted would have pulled the trigger, I think that was the failing of a young GM. I don’t think he would ever make that mistake again. If Gute wins a SB then he’s a hero, like Ted, and if he doesn’t then he’s a fool, that’s how fine the line is for GM’s. Howie Roseman would be a joke if he didn’t have a SB under his belt, but right now he’s the best GM in the league. Gute has about as mixed a track record as every GM, but good ones win it all and fired GMs don’t. Simple as that. I bet Ted communicated about as well with Brett as Gute did with Aaron. I’m not a Gute supporter necessarily, but I don’t think he’s the root cause of us not winning championships. It started long before him and I think we can finally build a new culture that is hopefully SB caliber.
I've always believed Gutey wanted to make the Denver trade and Murphy wouldn't go for it. I'm even more sure after hearing Rodgers demand for a trade or fire Gutey. Of course Gutey wanted to dump Rodgers after he demanded he be fired and had already drafted Rodgers replacement. It's too bad Love never really had a rookie year because of covid because I think Gutey could have convinced people to get rid of Rodgers if Love was ready. He just couldn't present a case with no plan B.