Badgers to final four

Actually, Patric Young is a GREAT student. And, regarding the Wisconsin bball players, read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03...tournament.html?_r=0#

Bo has always stressed good students. His team once boasted the highest average GPA of all sports teams on UW's campus. Unheard of from a men's basketball team.

 

EDIT: Oops, see the NY Times article was posted.

As a fan, hell yes.  However, those kind of players aren't the kind of players that Bo Ryan recruits, so the point is moot.

Pretty sure Ryan recruits "those kind of players"

Well, gives me pride being a Badger fan.

 

Only if he's listening.

Continuity- having players for 3-4 years makes it more fun for me as a fan.  It is the difference between a true college team, and an NBA farm team.

The most fun for me as a fan is watching how much the players improve over the course of their careers. Players like Leuer, Marcus Landry, Jordan Taylor, Kaminsky, Berrgren, etc. are fun to watch develop.

 

The interesting thing on the one and dones will be to see how they see their association with the college they went to. Magic Johnson left early from MSU but there is no question he has remained a big supporter and identifies with the program and the university. Michael Jordan and UNC, etc. Will Anthony Davis, John Wall, Randle, Wiggins, Kevin Durant, feel the same way about Kentucky, Kansas, or Texas?

 

I'm probably in the minority and be looked at as being crazy, but I would rather recruit guys who are invested in being a part of the school (even if they don't graduate) than guys who are just passing through. If that means Wisconsin doesn't win a national championship, so be it. Maybe it's because I have immediate family members who participate as athletes in the non-revenue generating D1 sports and appreciate the importance of the experience.

 

Maybe Diamond Stone will be Wisconsin's first real test with a one and done?

How many here hated watching Russell Wilson play just one year as a Badger?

quote:

EDIT: Oops, see the NY Times article was posted.

I always knew Goalline and Goldie were the same poster. 

quote:

How many here hated watching Russell Wilson play just one year as a Badger?

Besides Iowacheese?

Actually, a pretty bad example. Russ was a grad student.

Devin Harris was a two and done. How is that any different than the one and dones? Please explain.

Bo didn't recruit him?

quote:

Devin Harris was a two and done. How is that any different than the one and dones?

Two years is longer than one year, dumbass.   

hee hee

 

I think it's tremendous how much emphasis appears to be on academics at UW, it's definitely something to proud of. However, would you all be complaining if Calipari was at Wisconsin winning championships with 1 and done's? Would you be complaining about over-recruiting and gray shirts if Nick Saban was at Wisconsin winning 3 NC's in 4 seasons? As much as I dislike Nick Saban and John Calipari, I wouldn't complain about them. Heck I would find a way to justify it. The frustrating thing, I'm sure, is seeing your team have success doing things in a way that is right/respectable while watching other teams like Kentucky, Florida, Alabama, etc. have arguably more success running programs that are less than respectable. 

I would not be happy with a dirtbag like Calipari at UW.  Not because he wins in a way I don't necessarily prefer, but because everywhere he's gone until now has wound up buried in scandals and sanctions.  All he does is jump ship before the hammer falls while the schools he leaves take down banners and vacate wins.  It hasn't happened at Kentucky - yet - but would anyone be surprised if the same thing happens there a couple of years from now?

Not at all, but would you be okay with him recruiting almost exclusively 1 and done's?

If he did it cleanly?  Yeah, I'd be OK with that.  That's my problem, though - I just think getting these one-and-done guys to come to your school is inherently dirty.  WTF do these guys care if they take money?  They're never going to get busted before they're long gone and on to the NBA.  I'm not saying that this happens with all one-and-done guys by any means.  I'm saying that IMHO it's more likely.  The fact that a known, proven cheater is seen as the being at the forefront of this model doesn't help its reputation.

I wouldn't parallel the styles and successes of Saban - 4 titles since 2003, and Calipari - 1. In CFB you can't win squat with a bunch of 1 and done Frosh.

 

Calipari's 1 and done kids create a lot of wins, but as JJSD he leaves a snail trail of goo behind him. No thanks.

 

I'm not disagreeing with either of you, I've read through this thread and it seems that many simply see the "1 and done" concept as wrong or as a problem with college basketball. Cal is a sleezeball, but there's a lot of fans that can overlook that if you're winning (see Urban Meyer's Florida teams).

 

I think Saban is probably using a similar pitch to recruits to what Calipari uses. Calipari sells his program as the easiest route to the NBA/money... 3/4 of a year in college with minimal school work and still compete for a championship. Saban is selling something similar I'm sure. A couple years in school doing the bare minimum at a 1st round draft pick factory with the chance to be in the running for a championship every year. Alabama is the easiest route to the NFL right now which is why Saban hauls in 3 and done players every year. 

As a fan, I would rather see the rule be more like MLB, you can either apply right out of HS, or go to college and not be eligible until after your sophomore year (JR in MLB). 

 

Kids could still commit to a college, but if they do get drafted, they can bail on that commit.  I'm sure people would piss and moan about that, but then at least if the kid was given bad advice about entering the draft, he can still play college ball. 

 

As an amateur futurist and professional realist, kids deserve to get paid when they can as well.  I don't recommend pissing away your free education since so few actually make it into the league, but that is your choice. 

 

If Frank finds out reasonably that he will be a top 15/20 pick, you can't hold it against him for bailing school for cash even though he only gave the UW on really productive year.  As a fan, I would hate it, but you can't blame the kid.  Bo recruited Looney hard, even though many predict he is a one and done.  I think he would be fine with one of his boys getting paid millions to be in the league, even if it only meant he got to coach them for a year. 

EKB - until Bo Ryan brings has one of these one-and-done players on the team, I don't believe he truly wants them.  Ryan's coaching style requires the players to exude humility and have the understanding that the team is first.  This is shown time and time again when T-Jack, Dekker, Gasser, etc. has a boneheaded turnover or shot - right to the bench they go, with no complaints.  I don't think there are many one-and-done 18-19 year-old players (that have likely had their egos stroked for 10+ years) that would be able to handle that.

Your assuming the recruiting of Diamond Stone is a ruse?  Just like the slight of hand orchestrated in the pretend courting of Kevon Looney?

 

Sam Dekker agreed in a dark alley, despite many feeling he was NBA bound sooner than later, to play 3 years for Bucky at the very least.   

 

Dedicating time and resources in the pursuit of names like Marshall Plumlee, Evan Turner, JP Tokoto, and Chasson Randle was a trick to land guys who saw no visions of the NBA.  The master trick was getting Vander Blue, then getting him behind in his classes so he mess up the Golden Eagles by leaving early. 

 

I guess I never looked at it this way, Bo really does avoid high profile recruits for fear they may leave the program early.  If only he had started to listen to MC, maybe things could have been different. 

I'll raise my hand.

but you would have been fine with it if he had sat on the bench for 3 years. 

 

I guess the horses are higher than I thought for Badger fans, now transfers and guys who might go pro before the NCAA mandates they can't play for them ends are a problem.

 

If someone offered me significant money before I completed my graduation requirements (6 years in), I would have jumped at it. 

 

 

Who cares if they are one and done players as long as they don't put the program or the school on notice for potential violations?

I always get a kick out of the "Wisconsin only recruits student athletes" crowd.   Academics are important but it's a business as well.  I loathe what Calipari is doing but if a Wiggins or Parker or Nick Johnson wanted to come to UW so be it.  As long as Bo isn't breaking the rules why would anyone care?

Bo has said it himself, he wants talented players just like every other coach. 

 

Unless saying it was just another ruse....

Again, once Bo Ryan has a player that is a one and done guy, I'll be the first one to say you were right.  However, I'll defer to more than a decade of evidence of his coaching the Badgers.  I like the sample size for my point of view.

Oh yeah, Vander Blue played 3 years @ Marquette and wasn't anywhere near the talent of a player like Wiggins.

Ryan has said he would take those kind of players, and certainly has not shied away from 5 start recruits (those most likely to leave early).  He was in on Anthony Davis, and everyone knew his time would be short.  He's currently in on VJ King, who no one thinks is going to be at a program long.

 

Unless he is lying to us (perhaps another ruse), Bo would take a good basketball player if he played good defense and didn't turn the ball over. 

 

If a one and done player could convince Bo he would always put the team ahead of individual goals he may take him on. I doubt there are many players who could convince Bo of that tho. And the biggest reason is Bo will make them study and do well in academics, some thing many of one and done guys won't do. I read once that something like 90% of Bob Huggins seniors at Cincinnati never graduated. He could coach them in basketball but forgot to coach them about the realities of life. Bo does that.

Vander Blue was a bit of a flake but you are crazy if you think he would not have helped them win.  He had a fantastic 2013 season and was borderline dominant at times.   Bo recruited him and people didn't care until he transferred to MU and then all of a sudden he's an idiot or couldn't make the grades.   Newsflash people - UW isn't Duke or Northwestern.

Blue was regarded as a short timer, hence why he was used as (another) example of the type of player Bo has no problem recruiting.

 

I'm also pretty confident Bo would put aside his sense of nobility if Anthony Davis would've had a greater desire to play up north. 

 

As for Bob Huggins, there are very few Bob Huggin's in the world.  We can be grateful for that.  I think Coach K. made Jabari Parker go to class this year.  I like to think Bo is closer to coach K than huggy bear. 

Does it have to be one of those two to qualify as a top school with tough standards? There are things UW offers those two schools can only dream about. Sorry, but that was a really ignorant statement.

I'd like to think that deep down coach K spent the last :45 seconds of the Mercer game wishing he had something similar to their 4 starting seniors that pulled away from his Duke team and won comfortably. 

I'm not against trying to recruit the "one-n-doners"....having one or two on your team is great!

 

But when it's the foundation of your entire recruiting philosophy, then I think it's a house of cards that at some point is going to crash and it won't be pretty (Florida football analogy).

 

Cal is as slimy as it gets, but his house of cards has two final fours and a national championship. 

Pete Carroll also has two (vacated?) national championships; that doesn't mean he's any less slimy or that people should want their teams to do things the Pete Carroll way.

If it's ignorant then how were guys like Brent Moss and John Clay and Kraig Appleton (among others) admitted into the football program?  We all know Wisconsin is a world class institution of higher learning and their academics are top notch.   However, their athletic programs (probably more football than basketball) do take partial qualifiers from time to time.  It's all part of the deal in big time college athletics.   I also think Wisconsin generally runs clean programs which I don't think can be said for Pete Carroll or John Calipari.

I just didn't feel that playing the rent a QB game was good for the football program. The only problem I would have had with him sitting on the bench for 3 years is if he was the best QB and they were playing another QB just because he was there longer. I don't understand the love for Wilson. What did he do that was so great?